04/12 Generic Fantasy WW Game Thread

[dyachei]

A couple logic posts:

I'm back. I've not read much, though I did go back to see why Empoof called me towny. It's ok reasoning, I guess. It's also brave enough to be against the grain that I'll call him lean town.

I'll read more into Cuth. I was willing to call him a villager, but P#170 makes me think otherwise.

kind of like that he at least looks willing to delve more into reading cuth

Quarter-assed sort by postcount reads

I feel like I should have a better read on Zack besides null considering he's got 60 some-odd posts. I'll be watching this one some more.

I've currently got Insaner as my top town. He's playing like he's bulletproof; questioning people left and right.

I'm sticking with my Empoof is town read until forced to reevaluate. Nothing yet tells me to rethink that.

Ladd feels like his pushes are entirely too easy, and his defenses of things feel the wrong kind of dismissive.
Vote: Ladd

See my comments regarding Zack for the same feelings towards GH.

I didn't really get the suspicion of Monty, so I ISO'ed him. Upon reading it myself, I could see that as a wolf. I'd rather give him time, but he get's a slight scumlean today.

I think this post kind of reminds me of how I felt d1 with the exception of Zack and ladd.

@ladd

You're going nowhere with your scum-reads, as if you are afraid to commit. However:

You've got some subtle shade on Pzelda that looks like you are reluctant to vote there.

You hedge on calling a post of mine good content wise, but wolfy in tone.

You are reluctant to to do anything with a probable Barto scum-read, instead deferring to others for meta.

You give a out of nowhere ">rand Fable/Barto W/W" and don't follow up.

I feel like you are taking pot shots to see what sticks rahter than actually solving.

Also kind of like this post. feels like it would be way too blatant to do as a wolf. But I also like the points he was talking about and the way he was looking into ladd


light town

[Montmorency]

Just to be safe ;)

h/t

id like to hear this logic (xD)

if anything, the fact that the bads didn't vote for ladd despite him being the #3 vote getter should make him more likely bad himself at a superficial look

Barto did, unless you believe he calculated it at the last minute as anti-spew. Doesn't seem like Bart but idk. But there were those other reasons I and GH mentioned.

I'm always town here for two reasons: First of all, while I wasn't on Barto quite as early as Zack, I too quickly pointed out a discrepancy in one of his earliest comments and would have explored it further were the f3 in my other game (now concluded) not about to start. Secondly, I consistently voted for and pushed the two mafiosi pretty much all day yesterday, always ranking Barto ahead of Monty in my personal "lynch preference" list, jumping to PZelda, independently isoing PZelda and providing further ammunition to the fire, and ultimately ending up on him. I briefly switched to Chox, yes, but that was mostly out of deference to Empoof trying for some wagonomics and I was always intending to end back up on PZelda, as I think I made pretty clear over the course of EOD1. I will tolerate this tinfoiling of me for exactly the remainder of this dayphase, but once Egix flips mafia then it needs to stop.

One point I dislike is leaning on ISOs of scum. When I had to bus you and Zack in Chess, I went to feverish lengths to ISO you (but in an authentic way). Also, the "once Egix flips" line stirs some unspecified deja vu in me; I'm tilted.

What would you do in a F3 between you, me, and Choxorn?

thats dumb. ppl can be wrong and still be good.

There's other wagonomics-related reasons too, but I'm annoyed at this point and just wanted to get my thoughts down. Will get more into detail about it when I get back but I really don't deserve the treatment that I'm getting from exactly you right now considering how my D1 and would greatly appreciate it if you recognized my contributions and started looking elsewhere.

You said you had comments about Choxorn and night kills at the beginning of the day.

Town
Montmorency
Zack

Suck it Zaccino!

Also kind of like this post. feels like it would be way too blatant to do as a wolf. But I also like the points he was talking about and the way he was looking into ladd

@ladd

You're going nowhere with your scum-reads, as if you are afraid to commit. However:

You've got some subtle shade on Pzelda that looks like you are reluctant to vote there.

You hedge on calling a post of mine good content wise, but wolfy in tone.

You are reluctant to to do anything with a probable Barto scum-read, instead deferring to others for meta.

You give a out of nowhere ">rand Fable/Barto W/W" and don't follow up.

I feel like you are taking pot shots to see what sticks rahter than actually solving.

light town

Hmm, that's actually kind of a pinging post. I feel like Logic calling out a player for easy pushes and dismissive defenses is SLIGHT scum equity. Concerning that he only really talked about his top town reads plus this one scum push, that he has recanted today (for good reason).

What I would be looking for is who he targets for potential scumreads once he can buckle down, and how. Comment, Hankerchief?

[Zack]

Can you stop bringing up chess revisionist history

Kthxbye

[Insaner]

I would like to preface this by saying that this post is NOT intended to be a scum case on GH. What I aim to do with this post is call the narrative of "GH pushed two wolves on D1" into question. In fact, based on a reread of his D1 iso I can't say that he pushed anybody on D1. Zack pushed for El Barto to be lynched. I pushed for pzelda to be lynched. Everybody else on those wagons was a follower.

El Barto quotes:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Sup everyone.

Think there might be a phone interface through Tapatalk or something? Or check skins/styles in a dropdown list at the very bottom of the page, the default should be something like "TheGuild" or "STW" or something, idk, it's been like a decade since I've changed skins here.

Barto defense is interesting because "being busier in another game" (which I don't dispute) doesn't stop him from making a funny vote as opposed to talking about his suspicion.

Barto claims being busy/distracted as a reason why he didn't just drop a vote on you for saying you were going to phonepost (him shading people for that here is NAI; long story)

If we accept this explanation at face value, then think about which takes longer: dropping a simple vote, or posting what he posted instead in response?

Morning.

Skimmed a bit, haven't reread in depth (hope to do that before EOD), but here's some of my takes so far:

Barto/Monty wagons are not particularly spicy but I guess not really surprising considering this playerset. Between the two of them I think Barto has a higher chance of flipping mafia due to his start and Monty seemingly being whimsical Monty-self instead of really trying to accomplish anything in particular in this game. This is more of a "I like Monty for town" read than "I like Barto for scum" read, and while I recognize that I haven't played with either in literal years, I think the old meta still holds.

Fable can be town just because he's Very Obviously being a brat with the way he's treating the thread/game right now, I don't mean that in a particularly bad way, it's just like he doesn't feel obligated to actually try and put on a performance, and that's generally indicative of Town!Fable from my experience. I don't think this is a result of the low activity of the game, either, it's still a quality playerlist and he'd know he'd have to do stuff to fit in as mafia despite the low volume so far. Furthermore, I see that he just recently dropped a random townread on me that's kind of against the grain, and if it's for the reasons I suspect it is, then it's 100% something that Fable would do as town.

dya gets a day pass, I expect she'll be more active on D2, as will I.

I actually like Logic's three posts. Want to see more, but not worried yet.

Zack is... tentatively in my town. This has nothing to do with how he's approached my slot. It's more related to the fact of how he's dug into things that have caught his attention and hammered away at them until he's satisfied and refused to let up on things. There's less posting than I'd expect, but I don't really think that's alignment-indicative in this environment. My main goal here is to further reinforce his townreads so that the mafia don't kill him at night for fear that he'll be protected by a doc or jailkeeper or something and be more likely to move on me instead. (but seriously, I think he's probably ok here)

Those are the takes that have stood out most to me so far, I don't really have any mafia yet beyond potentially Barto. Will make another pass later on today. If I haven't talked about someone here, it's because their posts haven't really left much impression on me. Yes, that includes you, Empoof.

I'm glad people are enjoying the emotes.

> "This is more of a 'I like Monty for town' read than a 'I like Barto for scum' read"
> GH is totally holding onto that Barto scumread amirite

Logic's town, consider this locked in.

Chox... might be mafia, but I'm not confident enough to go there today I don't think, and I think I can get him locked in one way or the other on D2. Would prefer not going there today.

ladd seems fine, think he's a miss.

I guess Insaner can be town and it's largely for his weird gif at me earlier today moreso than anything else he's done/general temperament.

Not as sold on Merl1n town as everyone else, and it's largely for this post:



It just seems a little overdone, even for the "I'm new and this is my first game" act he's putting on. I don't doubt that this is his first game but I feel like he's putting it on a little too much.

Empoof is gut mafia for me. Can't really explain it now. Kill me tonight if you don't want me to flesh this out please.

Guess I'm voting with my two large posts as a guideline. Anyone I haven't talked about I'm probably ambivalent about.

If I'm to put this in a readslist I think it goes something like:

Logic
Fable

Zack
Insaner

Monty
ladd

--- town line ---

Csargo
dya
Newyn
Pzelda
Cuth
Egix

Empoof
Choxorn

--- null/idk line ---

merl1n

El Barto

Not actually sure how much I like El Barto at the bottom but I don't really have the energy to try to find a different non-Monty lynch right now in my null territory.

Vote: El Barto

Got any mafia? Top town? Why?

Hm. Usually tally manipulation, if caught, is like instalynch material.

Think it's more likely that he just didn't see Monty's vote when he was making that?

His early callout on Barto was A Thing™. But later he walked it back to "it's not that Barto is a wolf but rather that Monty is a villager" and even denied holding a wolf read on Barto to my face. Doesn't mention him in his next post where he puts wolf leans on 3 other people (Choxorn, merl1n, Empoof). Has Barto as the lowest placed person on his next readlist and votes him in the next post but still doesn't provide a compelling reason for the scum read.

Got any mafia? Top town? Why?

Hm. Usually tally manipulation, if caught, is like instalynch material.

Think it's more likely that he just didn't see Monty's vote when he was making that?

The only interaction he had with Barto at EoD was that question. After which he made this sneaky attempt to OPPORTUNISTICALLY™ turn the lynch on me, his supposed town read, whom he was sheeping on pzelda, his supposed wolf read.

pzelda quotes:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Morning.

Skimmed a bit, haven't reread in depth (hope to do that before EOD), but here's some of my takes so far:

Barto/Monty wagons are not particularly spicy but I guess not really surprising considering this playerset. Between the two of them I think Barto has a higher chance of flipping mafia due to his start and Monty seemingly being whimsical Monty-self instead of really trying to accomplish anything in particular in this game. This is more of a "I like Monty for town" read than "I like Barto for scum" read, and while I recognize that I haven't played with either in literal years, I think the old meta still holds.

Fable can be town just because he's Very Obviously being a brat with the way he's treating the thread/game right now, I don't mean that in a particularly bad way, it's just like he doesn't feel obligated to actually try and put on a performance, and that's generally indicative of Town!Fable from my experience. I don't think this is a result of the low activity of the game, either, it's still a quality playerlist and he'd know he'd have to do stuff to fit in as mafia despite the low volume so far. Furthermore, I see that he just recently dropped a random townread on me that's kind of against the grain, and if it's for the reasons I suspect it is, then it's 100% something that Fable would do as town.

dya gets a day pass, I expect she'll be more active on D2, as will I.

I actually like Logic's three posts. Want to see more, but not worried yet.

Zack is... tentatively in my town. This has nothing to do with how he's approached my slot. It's more related to the fact of how he's dug into things that have caught his attention and hammered away at them until he's satisfied and refused to let up on things. There's less posting than I'd expect, but I don't really think that's alignment-indicative in this environment. My main goal here is to further reinforce his townreads so that the mafia don't kill him at night for fear that he'll be protected by a doc or jailkeeper or something and be more likely to move on me instead. (but seriously, I think he's probably ok here)

Those are the takes that have stood out most to me so far, I don't really have any mafia yet beyond potentially Barto. Will make another pass later on today. If I haven't talked about someone here, it's because their posts haven't really left much impression on me. Yes, that includes you, Empoof.

I'm glad people are enjoying the emotes.

Logic's town, consider this locked in.

Chox... might be mafia, but I'm not confident enough to go there today I don't think, and I think I can get him locked in one way or the other on D2. Would prefer not going there today.

ladd seems fine, think he's a miss.

I guess Insaner can be town and it's largely for his weird gif at me earlier today moreso than anything else he's done/general temperament.

Not as sold on Merl1n town as everyone else, and it's largely for this post:



It just seems a little overdone, even for the "I'm new and this is my first game" act he's putting on. I don't doubt that this is his first game but I feel like he's putting it on a little too much.

Empoof is gut mafia for me. Can't really explain it now. Kill me tonight if you don't want me to flesh this out please.

Guess I'm voting with my two large posts as a guideline. Anyone I haven't talked about I'm probably ambivalent about.

If I'm to put this in a readslist I think it goes something like:

Logic
Fable

Zack
Insaner

Monty
ladd

--- town line ---

Csargo
dya
Newyn
Pzelda
Cuth
Egix

Empoof
Choxorn

--- null/idk line ---

merl1n

El Barto

Ok.

Vote: PZelda

Straight up, I'm a bit annoyed that Insaner was like "I HAVE A PERFECT READ ON PZELDA AND HE IS ALWAYS MAFIA HERE" and then immediately walked it back to "well I've read him right 2 out of 3 games" but whatever, riding with this for now.

I've read the pzelda iso for myself and am officially signing off on that wagon beyond "I'll sheep Insaner on it". My main problem can be best summarized by this post:



There is no attempt at following up on this. There is no hint of an attempt at following up on this. There's clarifications, a good bit about talking about MU people and meta and anything besides actual reads and takes on people, but there's very little actual solving spirit, and in my experience people making statements similar to the bolded and going absolutely nowhere with them is a pretty reliable scumtell.

I'm hopping off in a couple minutes back on pzelda, FYI.

Vote: pzelda

pzelda > choxorn >>>>>>> el barto >> ladd

in order of preference

Feeling decent. Glad to be back here.

GL, here's hoping.

He straight up doesn't mention pzelda at all in his first two read posts and then puts him into a null pile in the third one. Immediately votes him after I claim to have a god read on Capage, but wasn't pleased with the situation when I later walked it back later. Ended up voting pzelda there at the end.


In summary: GH only ever spoke negatively about each of the flipped wolves, but to say that he pushed for any of them to be lynched is a stretch. There are posts where he is seen wolf reading them and being willing to vote there, but I haven't found any attempts to actually reinforce either of those wagons.

[GeneralHankerchief]

@ Monty

Ping acknowledged but I don't think my nightkill musings is as important/sharable now.

[Fable]

[merl1n]

i lack the appropriate words

[dyachei]

@Fable are you going to do anything this game? I mean other than post gifs

[Fable]

@Fable are you going to do anything this game? I mean other than post gifs

I keep trying to post a reads list and then getting distracted and I'm lynching wolves so it's k.

[Fable]

Insaner
GH
mont


----

merl1n
ladd
Zack
--------
csargo
dya
newyn
egix
logic
---------------
chox
cuth

[dyachei]

fable, did you read my post on csargo? what do you think?

[Fable]

GTH move egix and dya up a tier

[merl1n]

you think choxorn is bad even w the tracker claim? seems suicidal to do that as a wolf with 2 bads dead, he never wins endgame

[Fable]

you think choxorn is bad even w the tracker claim? seems suicidal to do that as a wolf with 2 bads dead, he never wins endgame

I think it's NAI and idk who else wolves are maybe cuth and newyn

[Fable]

fable, did you read my post on csargo? what do you think?

I have to read it lol.

[Montmorency]

Can you stop bringing up chess revisionist history

Kthxbye

I'm speaking my truth.

@ Monty

Ping acknowledged but I don't think my nightkill musings is as important/sharable now.

hmmm

[Cuthillius]

missed that Monty had voted me before

exciting

by the way fable have you mentioned me at all apart from grouping me with newyn and putting me at the bottom of that list

if so I genuinely missed it sorry

speaking of newyn, I don't get the sense anyone's really... trying to figure him out

I really like his d1 on a certain level but a) he knows how to pocket me like a champ sometimes and b) if the last wolf is someone who's very much underwhelming and there's no good way tomorrow is ending I could see you going for the deep bus route

probably a villager but I have my reservations

ladd is in this weird spot where I feel like I should feel something about him but I don't

not great at reading dya but she hasn't had incredibly villagery posts

[ladd]

missed that Monty had voted me before

exciting

by the way fable have you mentioned me at all apart from grouping me with newyn and putting me at the bottom of that list

if so I genuinely missed it sorry

speaking of newyn, I don't get the sense anyone's really... trying to figure him out

I really like his d1 on a certain level but a) he knows how to pocket me like a champ sometimes and b) if the last wolf is someone who's very much underwhelming and there's no good way tomorrow is ending I could see you going for the deep bus route

probably a villager but I have my reservations

ladd is in this weird spot where I feel like I should feel something about him but I don't

not great at reading dya but she hasn't had incredibly villagery posts

wolfy

back to sleep

[ladd]

I just don't buy that's what you have to say in this gamestate

esp the line about me is just so cliché and shows 0 interest in actually solving the game

[Csargo]

tried to grab the quotes that have substance from csargo. But like this entire post is hedgy af. He gives himself an out at every turn.



he even talks about that here



good vote though



but again, he's afraid to clear people



Here are today's reads and they feel pretty...safe? like it's not saying a lot to me in either direction



But here he's starting to get spicy with GH and I'm not sure how I feel about it.

I think overall maybe a slight scum lean? feels like he was trying to give himself an out on the barto read (though he did vote there later) and he's afraid to town read people

I can't really argue against the hedgy af, because it's true. It comes from a lack of confidence in my reads because I haven't played in a while.

I'm not sure what you mean by I'm afraid to clear people? I don't trust Monty in general, but I think he's town now from what I've seen today. In the post you called safe I said I was alright with calling Zack, GH, and Insaner town, which is basically I wouldn't vote there outside of extraordinary circumstances or they really took a nosedive with their posts. That's probably the closest I'd come to clearing anybody. Because now I kinda want to vote GH.

Cool. My feelings are safe.

I'm a bundle of confusing.

You are the first person to not call me rand/null this game, congrats!

El barto is usually more carefree posting in my experience with him as town, but like I said in the first post you quoted he seemed cautious. I didn't really have anything else and that really didn't seem like much at the time.

[Csargo]

Vote:Cuth

[ladd]

cuth, what did you like about monty posts that made you soften on the wolf read there?

[ladd]

alright my time is up

see you idk when, I'll try to pop in when I can

[Choxorn]

@Choxorn

I know you cliamed tracker but I find it weird that you admitted that yday you played like crap, considering that imo your posts were whatever and you simply were inactive

why did you think you played like crap besides inactivity which is perfectly explainable by real life?

who are the wolves?

I mean that's pretty much it, I'm inactive, which leads to playing like crap

Idk, Egix? Cuth? Maybe Csargo?

kind of like this question from chox but I guess it could be as either alignment



he follows up with it here. I'd like to hear more from chox regarding if he still thinks ladd can be scum with barto



and here we have his claim. And his town read on ladd now.

I really want more from this slot. I think the claim could come from either alignment and the change in ladd stuff is weird. But like...I can't sort it

My switch on ladd was based largely on the way the wagons played out at EoD and seeing pzelda and Barto flip scum. I saw ladd as maybe a little scummy yesterday but if he's scum then the top 3 wagons day 1 were all scum which seems highly unlikely to me.

[Insaner]

Didn't expect to see my post completely ignored. Oh well. At least it looks like everyone is on board with the Cuth lynch.

Vote: Cuth

After this flips wolf and I die on N2, you all know who to lynch next.

[Zack]

If PZelda is town I deserve the night kill

@ Medic

Chuckled at this one

[Zack]

if pzelda is town, you won't be night killed

This was an interesting response

Kinda wolfy imo

[Zack]

Ladd, why did you think empoof was a pr?

[Zack]

When did gh become the authority on logic btw?

[Zack]