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Thread: Coronavirus / COVID-19

  1. #301
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    @Beskar

    Is the "Fun-O-Meter" a British thing?
    High Plains Drifter

  2. #302

    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooahguy View Post
    New York City is 2-3 weeks away from exhausting their stocks in key supplies. Every day that goes by I get more anxious. Where I am now it doesn't seem like a shelter in place will be ordered soon for my city, but every day that goes by it seems likelier. Of the report I saw, over half of the new cases today were under 40. And yet when I walk my dog I see people congregating and its freaking me out.
    The number is growing partly because of a dramatic increase in testing. New York has cumulatively tested 22,000 people, including more than 7,500 in the past day, Gov. Andrew Cuomo said.

    HOLD UP

    1. So the authorities previously said that by the end of the week they would be testing up to 7000 a day. They've already exceeded that target?
    2. The Reuters article I linked recently reported a cumulative 60000 tests performed in the United States by Tuesday.
    3. Assuming that on Thursday at the time of reporting the cumulative number of tests performed remained under 100000, then New York State, representing 6% of the American population, has conducted up to 1/3 of all COVID-19 tests in this country to date.

    Damn, I guess Governor Cuomo really stepped up. You have to hand it to him.

    Alternatively, other national leaders should be burned in effigy.

    There's also:

    Governor Cuomo
    https://twitter.com/NYGovCuomo/statu...10734033670145
    https://twitter.com/NYGovCuomo/statu...23814297915393

    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post
    Some of these are absolutely, friggin' hilarious:

    https://www.usnews.com/cartoons/donald-trump
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


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  3. #303
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Damn, I guess Governor Cuomo really stepped up. You have to hand it to him.
    If he continues to manage the outbreak the way a person in leadership should, guess who's a strong candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination in 2024
    High Plains Drifter

  4. #304
    Senior Member Senior Member Yeti Sports 1.5 Champion, Snowboard Slalom Champion, Monkey Jump Champion, Mosquito Kill Champion Csargo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    The number is growing partly because of a dramatic increase in testing. New York has cumulatively tested 22,000 people, including more than 7,500 in the past day, Gov. Andrew Cuomo said.

    HOLD UP

    1. So the authorities previously said that by the end of the week they would be testing up to 7000 a day. They've already exceeded that target?
    2. The Reuters article I linked recently reported a cumulative 60000 tests performed in the United States by Tuesday.
    3. Assuming that on Thursday at the time of reporting the cumulative number of tests performed remained under 100000, then New York State, representing 6% of the American population, has conducted up to 1/3 of all COVID-19 tests in this country to date.

    Damn, I guess Governor Cuomo really stepped up. You have to hand it to him.
    I read last night that 10 counties represent ~90% of all testing in the US so far, which seems crazy at this point. Read this as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sooh View Post
    I wonder if I can make Csargo cry harder by doing everyone but his ISO.

  5. #305

    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    Damn, I guess Governor Cuomo really stepped up. You have to hand it to him.
    When will the Cuomo family get a bridge named after them?


  6. #306

    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    I was just out for a walk about the neighborhood, early afternoon local. First time outside since last week. I was shocked at how much foot activity there is on the streets, perhaps even more than is typical. A few parents with kids, but not many sub-thirties overall. No more than a third of people masked (not counting service employees), which may be a good or a bad sign depending on how one looks at it.

    Some establishments closed. Clothing, dental, insurance, you expect that. Restaurants of course open for pick-up. But another surprise was just how many places are active. Subways (sandwich chain) was closed, but Verizon was open. Bike hardware, liquor, glasses, dry cleaner, even hairdresser stores all open!

    I wonder how the situation will develop into the spring.

    Edit: Gotta police those surfaces, most significant transmission vector. So I used a hand covering to open doors. But see, habit is hard to break - leaving one shop I absent-mindedly pushed open the door with the uncovered hand.

    I bought some takeout from a Chinese place. A year ago, lunch specials were ~$6.50 (including tax). Recently they've been $8. I was a little sheepish, but also disappointed, when they charged the same today. I somehow expected their prices to be discounted.


    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post
    If he continues to manage the outbreak the way a person in leadership should, guess who's a strong candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination in 2024
    I'll affect a diplomatic disposition and offer that we have had enough of New Yorkers in presidential politics lately.

    Quote Originally Posted by Csargo View Post
    I read last night that 10 counties represent ~90% of all testing in the US so far, which seems crazy at this point. Read this as well.


    Amazons = coronavirus

    This is gonna get sexy.

    Quote Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name View Post
    When will the Cuomo family get a bridge named after them?
    Tappan Zee replacement. It is done.
    Last edited by Montmorency; 03-20-2020 at 20:48.
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


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  7. #307

    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Holy shit, I missed this from the morning. I guess most New Yorkers have.
    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/20/new-...from-home.html

    Gov. Andrew Cuomo ordered nonessential businesses to keep 100% of their workforce at home.
    He also put in place stringent new restrictions on New Yorkers starting Sunday as the state grapples with the worst coronavirus outbreak in the U.S.
    Cuomo said food delivery qualifies as an essential service.
    “When I talk about the most drastic action we can take, this is the most drastic action we can take,” Cuomo said at a press conference in Albany. Cases across the state surged by 2,950 overnight to 7,102, he said. “This is not life as usual. Accept it. Realize it and deal with it.”

    Cuomo acknowledged that the restrictions will force businesses to close and people to lose their jobs, adding that he’s suspending evictions across the state for 90 days.

    “We’re all in quarantine now. We’re all in various levels of quarantine and it’s hard,” he said.
    Well, now I know. And knowing is half the battle.
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Member thankful for this post:

    Csargo 


  8. #308
    Hǫrðar Member Viking's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Quote Originally Posted by Viking View Post
    According to the source I am currently looking at, South Korea now has a case fatality rate of 0.84%. This a country that has taken testing to an extreme level:
    According to the same source, the case fatality rate for South Korea is now close to 1.1 percent.
    Runes for good luck:

    [1 - exp(i*2π)]^-1

  9. #309

    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    I was just out for a walk about the neighborhood, early afternoon local. First time outside since last week. I was shocked at how much foot activity there is on the streets, perhaps even more than is typical. A few parents with kids, but not many sub-thirties overall. No more than a third of people masked (not counting service employees), which may be a good or a bad sign depending on how one looks at it.

    Some establishments closed. Clothing, dental, insurance, you expect that. Restaurants of course open for pick-up. But another surprise was just how many places are active. Subways (sandwich chain) was closed, but Verizon was open. Bike hardware, liquor, glasses, dry cleaner, even hairdresser stores all open!

    I wonder how the situation will develop into the spring.

    Edit: Gotta police those surfaces, most significant transmission vector. So I used a hand covering to open doors. But see, habit is hard to break - leaving one shop I absent-mindedly pushed open the door with the uncovered hand.

    I bought some takeout from a Chinese place. A year ago, lunch specials were ~$6.50 (including tax). Recently they've been $8. I was a little sheepish, but also disappointed, when they charged the same today. I somehow expected their prices to be discounted.
    Thanks for the update Monty. Studies have shown that people need exposure to the outside to maintain mental health anyway.
    What surprises me about your post is the number of establishments still open. On one hand I could see how impractical it would be to enforce non-essential businesses to close in NYC, but on the other hand public opinion regarding the virus has swung rapidly over the past week with a majority of people now feeling very concerned about the virus.

    I would say treat every door like the bathroom door at an Olive Garden, just use a paper towel to open and close as needed to prevent direct contact.
    Maybe we will see the return of the handkerchief into society?


    Tappan Zee replacement. It is done.
    Wow, and I was joking. I thought you guys only named bridges according to their connecting streets or Revolutionary War figures.


  10. #310
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    but on the other hand public opinion regarding the virus has swung rapidly over the past week with a majority of people now feeling very concerned about the virus.
    When you see the folks over at Fox News slamming the tranny into hard reverse, you know something is afoot

    And with the virus now reaching into the poorer areas of the world with far less medical resources, like Africa, S. America, Central America, we'll soon see whether the reporting since this all began was just "hype"
    Last edited by ReluctantSamurai; 03-20-2020 at 22:59.
    High Plains Drifter

  11. #311

    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    What is the UK government doing in terms of relief? Substituting lost wages like Denmark?

    Here are the Democratic and Republican relief proposals set beside each other:
    https://financialservices.house.gov/...umentID=406440
    https://www.cbpp.org/blog/senate-gop...sly-inadequate

    Never stop pointing out the political pathologies that brought us here.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/20/u...-supplies.html

    As reported cases of the virus in the United States have soared, Mr. Trump, who is known to recruit input from a variety of outside advisers, has been getting conflicting advice. The proliferating number of private sector voices with direct access to the president and his top advisers — notably his son-in-law and adviser, Jared Kushner — has resulted in a chaotic process.

    The president’s advisers say they see the role of the federal government as a facilitator, as opposed to the chief producer or a national governor. They have tried to encourage states to get by with what they can, suggesting there will be support from the federal government but that this should not be the first option.

    In practice, the administration has been trying to use the provision to jawbone companies into taking voluntary action while holding over them the possibility that the federal government would intervene, according to administration officials familiar with the state of play.

    “We’re actually encouraged that the partnership with the private sector can meeting many of these needs,” said Marc Short, Vice President Mike Pence’s chief of staff, on Friday morning in a discussion with reporters.
    https://newrepublic.com/article/1569...takes-pandemic

    Congressional testimony earlier [last] week featured an illuminating exchange between Representative Andy Harris, a Republican and medical doctor, and Robert Redfield, the director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Harris mainly wanted to use his time questioning the officials who were testifying before Congress to attack a Democratic proposal to lower drug costs for people on Medicare (Harris worries it would stifle “innovation” in the lucrative world of vaccine manufacturing) and to praise the superior ability of the private sector to handle such crises.

    The problem, though, was that the private sector hasn’t yet done anything to slow down the virus. “Quest and LabCorp now are geared up to do [coronavirus tests],” Harris asked. “Could they have geared up sooner?”

    “As a clinician like yourself,” Redfield said in his answer, “I guess I anticipated that the private sector would have engaged and helped develop it for the clinical side.” He finished his response with more bewilderment: “I can tell you, having lived through the last eight weeks, I would have loved the private sector to be fully engaged eight weeks ago.”

    Here were two men wondering aloud why reality had failed to conform to their ideology. Where was the private sector, exactly, during these eight weeks? How odd that these companies, whose only responsibility is to their shareholders, had failed to make up for the incompetence of this administration.

    Meanwhile:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    President Donald Trump excoriated an NBC News correspondent as a “terrible reporter” on Friday after he asked the president to calm Americans who were scared because of the coronavirus pandemic.

    Trump’s latest personal broadside on the media came at a news briefing in which he appeared to minimize the fears of the American public by saying there was cause for optimism about drug therapies for coronavirus — treatments that one of his top government scientists had said were not at all proven.

    At the Trump administration's coronavirus task force's daily briefing, Trump’s director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, Dr. Anthony Fauci, made clear that any evidence about drug therapies being tested at the moment was strictly “anecdotal” and not the product of a “clinical trial.”

    “You really can’t make any definitive statement about it,” Fauci said.

    Moments earlier, Fauci was asked whether there was any evidence that one such drug— hydroxychloroquine — might be used as an effective prophylactic measure against coronavirus.

    "The answer is no," Fauci replied.

    Trump nevertheless said that he felt "good" about the treatments and that the federal government had already ordered "millions of units" of them.

    NBC News’ Peter Alexander, a White House correspondent and a weekend anchor of "TODAY," then asked Trump whether his “positive spin” regarding the potential treatments was giving Americans false hope.

    “Is it possible that your impulse to put a positive spin on things may be giving Americans a false sense of hope?” Alexander asked.

    “No, I don’t think so,” Trump replied.

    “It may work, it may not work, Trump said. “I feel good about. That’s all it is, it’s a feeling.”

    Alexander responded by asking Trump to talk directly to Americans who are scared by the pandemic, which triggered the president to reply with an insult.

    "What do you say to Americans who are scared though? I guess, nearly 200 dead, 14,000 who are sick, millions, as you witnessed, who are scared right now," Alexander asked. "What do you say to Americans who are watching you right now who are scared?"

    “I say that you’re a terrible reporter,” Trump said. “That’s what I say. I think that’s a very nasty question.”

    "The American people are looking for answers and they’re looking for hope, and you’re doing sensationalism," Trump said.

    "Let’s see if it works," the president added about possible treatments. "It might and it might not. I happen to feel good about it, but who knows, I’ve been right a lot. Let’s see what happens," he added.


    For all our lives, there are very few people we will ever be as psychologically intimate with as we have become with Donald Trump.
    Last edited by Montmorency; 03-21-2020 at 02:32.
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  12. #312
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    What is the UK government doing in terms of relief? Substituting lost wages like Denmark?

    Here are the Democratic and Republican relief proposals set beside each other:
    https://financialservices.house.gov/...umentID=406440
    https://www.cbpp.org/blog/senate-gop...sly-inadequate

    Never stop pointing out the political pathologies that brought us here.
    Not only the responses to the virus, but also cutting funding for the health service as a matter of ideology. Remember Furunculus arguing his Brexit guru's idea of reducing state spending to x% of the economy? And my pointing out that the dream "Singapore-style economy" doesn't work for a country bigger than a city state, and government ministers actually going further than my warnings and saying that the UK does not need a food-producing industry. The neolibs understand the economy only as a matter of numbers and money, without understanding that the money actually represents something real, that no amount of political posturing can replace.

  13. #313
    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    That guy's voice really grinds my gears.

    Now - let's get real - there's a serious question to be asked if shutting down all Western economies (and by extension invalidating the social model of Western Democracy) is worth it.

    People like to talk about the "Liberal-Capitalist economy" or whatever but our economic model is an outgrowth of our social system - not the other way around.

    Social distancing is fundamentally unnatural and inherently psychologically damaging, the longer we do it the worse the damage will be - especially for children. I have some idea of what I speak - having been home-schooled after ruthless bullying, for 18 months - after which my mother sent me to a larger school. It's probably not true to say I "never recovered" but those 18 months put me so far behind developmentally I missed out on all the good bits of being a teenager trying to catch up.

    We have forgotten this but grandparents dying of pneumonia is a normal occurrence (one we'd virtually eliminated) whilst not being able to see or hug the ones you love for a year or more is not.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."

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  14. #314

    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Quote Originally Posted by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus View Post
    That guy's voice really grinds my gears.

    Now - let's get real - there's a serious question to be asked if shutting down all Western economies (and by extension invalidating the social model of Western Democracy) is worth it.

    People like to talk about the "Liberal-Capitalist economy" or whatever but our economic model is an outgrowth of our social system - not the other way around.

    Social distancing is fundamentally unnatural and inherently psychologically damaging, the longer we do it the worse the damage will be - especially for children. I have some idea of what I speak - having been home-schooled after ruthless bullying, for 18 months - after which my mother sent me to a larger school. It's probably not true to say I "never recovered" but those 18 months put me so far behind developmentally I missed out on all the good bits of being a teenager trying to catch up.

    We have forgotten this but grandparents dying of pneumonia is a normal occurrence (one we'd virtually eliminated) whilst not being able to see or hug the ones you love for a year or more is not.
    ...what?


  15. #315

    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



  16. #316
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Quote Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name View Post
    ...what?
    Long term quarantine and social distancing is going to cause increased misanthropy in society.
    Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.


    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Don't be scared that you don't freak out. Be scared when you don't care about freaking out
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  17. #317
    Member Member Crandar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    An interesting paper on the possible effects of different strategies (involving mitigation or suppression) against the current pandemic. It's only 20 pages, so it's worth a reading.

  18. #318
    Ja mata, TosaInu Forum Administrator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Day 12 since I've been at home, working from home as well... and as someone who is very social, this is really starting to wear me down.

    Sure, I've got a lot of stuff to do - work, read, learn new things which I always postponed, game, write (check out my story in the Mead Hall!) and other things but it's the idea of staying in the house for at least another month that's horrid.
    Ja mata, TosaInu. You will forever be remembered.

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  19. #319
    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Quote Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name View Post
    ...what?
    In the UK the "suppression" strategy is estimated to save an additional 250,000 lives, mostly elderly people, vs millions of children who will miss at least half a year of school.

    How many old people will die of "not coronavius" without ever seeing their grandchildren again?
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."

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  20. #320
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Now - let's get real - there's a serious question to be asked if shutting down all Western economies (and by extension invalidating the social model of Western Democracy) is worth it.
    but it's the idea of staying in the house for at least another month that's horrid.
    In the UK the "suppression" strategy is estimated to save an additional 250,000 lives, mostly elderly people, vs millions of children who will miss at least half a year of school.
    Long term quarantine and social distancing is going to cause increased misanthropy in society.
    Seriously people???

    A line from "Heartbreak Ridge" comes to mind: "You adapt. You overcome. You improvise. Let's move. Four minutes."

    In the UK an "additional 250,000 lives". In the US an "additional 1-2 million lives". In the entire world an additional [add your own statistical favorite number]. Maybe we should just adopt the asinine "herd mentality" and let the virus run ape-s&*% across the planet, killing millions, and then use the survivors as blood-bags to inoculate everyone else

    Look...quarantine is most certainly a bitch. You hear from just about every virologist out there, that because this sucker is so infectious, breaking the infection chain is crucial to stopping this virus. But until a vaccine is developed, quarantine is the best weapon in the arsenal to slow down the spread of the virus. Another famous movie line comes to mind (from The Terminator): "Listen, and understand! That Terminator is out there. It can’t be bargained with. It can’t be reasoned with. It doesn’t feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead!"

    So adapt, overcome, and improvise.
    Last edited by ReluctantSamurai; 03-21-2020 at 12:29.
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  21. #321
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Hi Corona (maybe)

    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."

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  22. #322
    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    What is the UK government doing in terms of relief? Substituting lost wages
    They were discussing Universal Income on the news yesterday.

    Looks like government paying wages
    Last edited by Beskar; 03-21-2020 at 17:42.
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  23. #323
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Corona Hi? I wish, but my favorite alcoholic beverage is in short supply, at the moment

    Look, the R "Naught" statistic clearly shows that the SARS-CoV-2 virus is more infectious than the flu. If you can get through the "geek speak", this particular analysis illustrates it well:

    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...144-4/fulltext

    Combining a mathematical model with multiple datasets, we found that the median daily Rt of SARS-CoV-2 in Wuhan probably varied between 1·6 and 2·6 in January, 2020, before travel restrictions were introduced. We also estimated that transmission declined by around half in the 2 weeks spanning the introduction of restrictions.
    Granted this looking at travel restrictions and not social distancing, but the theory of reducing the number of contacts is still viable, IMHO.

    Taking that together with Bruce Alyward's (Assistant Director-General of the WHO) comments in the joint WHO-China study released near the end of February, that:

    Conduct multi-sector scenario planning and simulations for the deployment of even more stringent measures to interrupt transmission chains as needed (e.g. the suspension of large-scale gatherings and the closure of schools and workplaces).
    A recommendation for social distancing as far back as the end of February.

    So...the alternatives are what....?
    Last edited by ReluctantSamurai; 03-21-2020 at 14:43.
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  24. #324
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post
    Corona Hi? I wish, but my favorite alcoholic beverage is in short supply, at the moment

    Look, the R "Naught" statistic clearly shows that the SARS-CoV-2 virus is more infectious than the flu. If you can get through the "geek speak", this particular analysis illustrates it well:

    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...144-4/fulltext



    Granted this looking at travel restrictions and not social distancing, but the theory of reducing the number of contacts is still viable, IMHO.

    Taking that together with Bruce Alyward's (Assistant Director-General of the WHO) comments in the joint WHO-China study released near the end of February, that:



    A recommendation for social distancing as far back as the end of February.

    So...the alternatives are what....?
    More deaths.

    As I said previously, many of the older folk in the UK would prefer that because they come from a generation that accepts the death of elderly people from pneumonia, as opposed to dementia, as normal.

    ACIN and Monty have been demanding Socialism and this virus is giving it to them: the state pays the wages of people not working, the start nationalises private businesses, cancellation of elections for "the public good" along with suppression of the right to free assembly and free association. The draconian measures taken by the UK Government is the prime cause of the current panic buying, the first result of which has already been a massive reduction in choice as supermarkets move to stack shelves with a single type of toilet paper instead of 20, the next step there is rationing, followed by state control of production.

    The US has not experienced this before because it has never really needed to move to a "war footing" like Europe.

    It's going to get a lot worse, if sickness disrupts food production then there will be real rationing, which means stretching limited food supplies so that everybody has something, that means a black market...

    Now, excuse me, I need to take the drugz.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."

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  25. #325
    Hǫrðar Member Viking's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    A team from Sky News visited the hospitals in Cremona and Bergamo, two of the worst hit towns in Italy. Two videos (particular the second video) show what the physical reality behind the statistics is like: hospitals filled up with people suffering from severe pneumonia.

    The video of army trucks carrying coffins with the dead is also from Bergamo, where the local crematorium apparently can't keep up with the pace that people currently are dying at in the city:

    The crematorium of Bergamo, working at full capacity, 24 hours a day, can cremate 25 dead", said a spokesperson for the local authority.

    "It is clear that it could not stand up to the numbers of the past few days."


    Coffins are now being taken to crematoriums in Modena, Acqui Terme, Domodossola, Parma, Piacenza and several other cities.

    Once the bodies have been cremated, the ashes will be brought back to Bergamo.
    Last edited by Viking; 03-21-2020 at 19:01.
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  26. #326
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    More deaths.
    Despite your claim that "many of the older folk prefer death" as an out from dementia (like all elderly people are going to suffer dementia at some point), that's a pretty cavalier attitude from someone in their early 30's. Feeling bullet-proof because your age-group is not suffering the majority of the deaths from COVID-19(for the moment, at least)?

    Not saying Socialism is the answer, either. And despite the fact that draconian measures have brought the spread of the virus in China almost to a halt, I would not have wanted to be on that lock-down to where I might get shot for leaving my home.
    Last edited by ReluctantSamurai; 03-21-2020 at 19:39.
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  27. #327
    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post
    Despite your claim that "many of the older folk prefer death" as an out from dementia (like all elderly people are going to suffer dementia at some point), that's a pretty cavalier attitude from someone in their early 30's. Feeling bullet-proof because your age-group is not suffering the majority of the deaths from COVID-19(for the moment, at least)?

    Not saying Socialism is the answer, either. And despite the fact that draconian measures have brought the spread of the virus in China almost to a halt, I would not have wanted to be on that lock-down to where I might get shot for leaving my home.
    I think you have a rather cavalier attitude to the shutdown of civil society and suspension of democracy - take a look at what's happening in Israel right now. I'm not suggesting that elderly people *want* death I'm communicating what many of them have told me, they are far more stoical about it than than Generation-X and the Millennials.
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  28. #328
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    I think you have a rather cavalier attitude to the shutdown of civil society and suspension of democracy
    I don't think that I do, but I'm sure that's open to debate I'm saying that I'm willing to accept a short-term (several weeks?) shut-down if it means getting ahead of this virus instead of always reacting to it. Now it may well be that a single mother living from pay-check to pay-check might vehemently disagree, or a business that has to shutter its' doors-permanently-might also disagree, but the alternative, as you put it, "more deaths", is unacceptable to me.

    So if "more deaths" is an acceptable alternative to you, where do you stop? Just how many deaths are you willing to accept as payment for your social rights?
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  29. #329
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post
    I don't think that I do, but I'm sure that's open to debate I'm saying that I'm willing to accept a short-term (several weeks?) shut-down if it means getting ahead of this virus instead of always reacting to it. Now it may well be that a single mother living from pay-check to pay-check might vehemently disagree, or a business that has to shutter its' doors-permanently-might also disagree, but the alternative, as you put it, "more deaths", is unacceptable to me.

    So if "more deaths" is an acceptable alternative to you, where do you stop? Just how many deaths are you willing to accept as payment for your social rights?
    The UK Government is already planning for this to last a minimum of 12 weeks whilst our scientists are warning it could be 12-18 months. That assumes there is a vaccine by then, if ever, because this is the same family of viruses that causes the Common Cold. The strength of the restrictions will probably vary in that time but this is a circumstance of months and possibly years, not weeks.

    Suicides rates are about to skyrocket - as is domestic abuse and homicide - how many more of those deaths are you willing to stomach?
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  30. #330
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    but this is a circumstance of months and possibly years, not weeks.
    I wouldn't presume to be able to predict the future---otherwise I'd be in a far more comfortable place than sitting in front of my computer typing this. This thread has been characterized as panic porn for calling this pandemic dire circumstances for humanity. I disagreed with that....until now. Months? Years? That's panic porn, IMHO. What leads you to think that the UK, or any other Western society is going to take advantage of the situation and go all Chairman Mao on its' population?

    Suicides rates are about to skyrocket - as is domestic abuse and homicide - how many more of those deaths are you willing to stomach?
    You still didn't answer my question. How many deaths are an acceptable payment for your "social rights?"

    I'll answer yours---the number of deaths from suicides, homicides, and other forms of social violence will certainly go up. The longer mobility is restricted, the more there will be. I'm not a sociologist, nor a statistician, so I can't give a body count. However.....I do know that if SARS-CoV-2 is left to run rampant in the name of "social rights", the body count will absolutely dwarf those who die from societal violence.
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