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Thread: Coronavirus / COVID-19

  1. #1111
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Something interesting which I've seen making the rounds online is people recounting when they realized that Covid was going to be a big deal. I remember reading in very early January 2020 about hospitals being set up in Wuhan and the quarantine going on but I didn't really think it would be a serious problem here. Even seeing what was going on in Italy I didn't take it as seriously as I probably should have. When the first few cases popped up in the US I thought it would be contained. Definitely was some denial going on then. Only in mid-March when everything started shutting down did I have that "oh damn" moment. I brought my laptop home from work on March 17 and have been back in the office only once since then. Crazy.

    On the vaccine front, my area opened up vaccines for my category last week, but registration is such a show that trying to get an appointment is notoriously difficult. The website frequently crashes despite claiming to anticipate demand.
    Last edited by Hooahguy; 02-28-2021 at 20:27.
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  2. #1112
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Had a [shivers] moment reading a book yesterday. Was a Dave Weber and company book on Space kingdom of Manticore in his "honorverse." In it, it recounts how the Manticore colony lost 60% of its first settlers population to a pandemic during the early days after settlement...to a form of coronavirus...in a book published in 2013.

    Yeesh.
    Last edited by Seamus Fermanagh; 03-03-2021 at 17:38.
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  3. #1113

    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    corovavirus
    Cowpox?
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  4. #1114

    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    Cowpox?
    Because corova means cow.



    American military Keynesianism juxtaposed with deteriorated state capacity
    https://newrepublic.com/article/1615...ination-effort

    New York City’s Department of Sanitation, which has a very important job (that it has traditionally managed to do fairly well), is funded through the municipal budget, which nearly always shrinks in a crisis. The governor had a wing of the armed forces at his disposal, paid for (for the most part) by the money-printing, deficit-spending federal government. If we agree that the state is responsible for picking up the trash, and the department assigned that responsibility is deprived of the resources necessary to perform that function, then, yes, sure, send in the arm of the state that is, in the United States, traditionally completely immune from austerian pressures to do it, instead. It may be demeaning to the National Guard’s officers and a poor use of resources, but this is how we’ve decided to organize our society.

    For almost a year now, the federal government has been picking up all or most of the tab for states to deploy the National Guard to respond to the Covid-19 pandemic. Upon taking office, President Joe Biden quickly signed an executive order fully federalizing the cost of pandemic-related National Guard deployments. Now the National Guard is posted just a short walk away from where I write this, distributing and even administering Covid-19 vaccines at one of a few mass vaccination sites that have been set up around New York City and state. Active-duty military personnel have been deployed to federal vaccination sites across the country, with more troops on the way this month.

    It’s not entirely clear why this is the military’s responsibility. America is a rich nation with a robust public and private health infrastructure. We might have chosen, at some point, to create a reserve force of doctors and nurses who could be called up to help administer a national vaccine program. (The Affordable Care Act was actually supposed to create such a force: a “Ready Reserve” corps of the U.S. Public Health Service’s Commissioned Corps that could be called up in emergencies. It just didn’t happen, because Congress forgot to include a way to pay the physicians, nurses, pharmacists, and other medical professionals that would serve in that reserve corps. Congress only got around to fixing the problem last year, midway through the pandemic.) Or we even could have tried building public health systems capable of doing a mass vaccination campaign without the need for a uniformed service at all. Israel’s lauded vaccine rollout depended on its network of community health organizations. The United Kingdom, relying on its National Health Service, is outpacing the rest of Europe in vaccine delivery. But we don’t have a national health care system. We have the National Guard and the Defense Department.

    To determine how the military ended up so central to our vaccine distribution plan, it helps juxtapose two seemingly unrelated facts: Last week, the Biden administration carried out airstrikes in Syria without congressional approval, and the White House announced that the vice president would not overrule a hired parliamentarian’s determination that a $15 federal minimum wage could not be included in the Covid-19 relief package currently moving through Congress.

    In making her decision, the parliamentarian apparently considered the fact that the Congressional Budget Office had previously determined that raising the minimum wage would increase the federal budget deficit by $54 billion. The CBO did not score the airstrikes.
    This perverse misallocation of resources does lead to some morbidly funny outcomes. What is the National Guard doing, across the country, besides helping with vaccination? As Stars and Stripes writes: “Some of the coronavirus missions have included working in food banks, manning testing sites, helping process unemployment benefits and distributing personal protective equipment.” In other words, the National Guard was simply doing various essential tasks the pandemic revealed our state was too broken to handle. Our unemployment insurance system is so dysfunctional that it needed troops to help administer it. The military is state-building in the U.S., after the nation gradually, over a generation, toppled its own government.
    Perhaps, with this dysfunctional political system, and a political class unable to shake its addiction to militarism, this is the best we can do. Naomi Klein likes to talk about the possibility of recreating something like the Civilian Conservation Corps, to address climate catastrophe and give meaningful work to young people whose lives have been disrupted by the pandemic. It’s a great and inspiring idea. Maybe make it a Noncivilian Conservation Corps and there will be room for it in Joe Biden’s next budget. Biden has promised to veto a Medicare for All program, even if it manages to pass Congress, citing the expense. But I’m sure the Pentagon could find funding for a pilot program to send F-35s full of camo-clad Troop Doctors throughout the country to treat civilians at (local economy–boosting!) military clinics. It already happens to be the case that one plank of our government’s plan to reduce carbon emissions is to have the military spend a growing portion of its massive budget on building up the clean energy sector. Maybe political opposition to the Green New Deal would lessen if someone puts the word “Operation:” in front of it.

    If the military is the only arm of the government that seems to understand there is practically no limit to what the U.S. can spend, the rest of us might as well start getting a little more out of it.
    Reminds me of an anecdote from the collapse of the Roman empire I once encountered. The garrison of a border fort came to receive its supply/relief columns more and more sporadically, until one day they stopped coming at all. Communications were terminated, orders stopped being given and followed. Eventually, the legionnaires abandoned their post and blended into the neighboring farming communities. The survival of the country as a political unit (let alone empire/hegemony) probably really is closely linked to the continuing robustness of our armed forces, perverse as it may be.
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  5. #1115
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    After weeks of trying, I finally managed to snag a vaccine appointment!
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  6. #1116

    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooahguy View Post
    After weeks of trying, I finally managed to snag a vaccine appointment!
    Guess I'll be one of the last in line.

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  7. #1117
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    Guess I'll be one of the last in line.
    In your state I know a number of folk including my brother who have been able to get vaccinated by waiting at clinics for no-shows. Could be worth a try if you were so inclined.
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  8. #1118

    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    In January I'm pretty sure this practice was proscribed by the state government, but maybe they introduced leniency to the protocols since then.
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  9. #1119

    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    In January I'm pretty sure this practice was proscribed by the state government, but maybe they introduced leniency to the protocols since then.
    I wouldn't worry that much anyway. We are hitting 3 mil doses a day and still rising. I expect people in your group to start getting their first shots by May.

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  10. #1120

    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    The early data we have on vaccination rates is incomplete, but one fact is particularly alarming: Black Americans are getting vaccinated at a much slower rate than their white counterparts. This is troubling given how hard the pandemic has hit Black Americans.

    But it’s also concerning because people often misunderstand why the rate is lower. Many are quick to point to a distrust of the medical community, as Black people do have a long history of being ignored or actively mistreated by health care professionals in the U.S. — most notably, in the infamous 40-year-long Tuskegee study, which denied Black men treatment for syphilis so researchers could track the natural progression of the disease. But a recent Pew survey challenges the idea that Black Americans are hesitant to get vaccinated: A majority of Black adults (61 percent) told Pew that they either planned to get a COVID-19 vaccine or have already gotten one, a sharp uptick from the 42 percent who said in November that they planned to get vaccinated.

    And this reflects what health experts have told me about this issue. They don’t really think distrust of the vaccine explains the large gaps we’re seeing in vaccination rates. What’s more, blaming the gap wholly on distrust is dangerous because it puts the onus on Black Americans around vaccinations and distracts us from the real reasons why the inoculation rate is lower. “The experience of Black Americans within the U.S. health care system has been extremely troubled to say the least,” said Sean Dickson, the director of health policy at the West Health Policy Center. “But we don’t want to rely on the narrative that Black people aren’t willing to get the vaccine,” he said, adding that he thought the real issue was the lack of investment in vaccine distribution in Black communities.


    Quote Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name View Post
    I wouldn't worry that much anyway. We are hitting 3 mil doses a day and still rising. I expect people in your group to start getting their first shots by May.
    You're all more optimistic than the government certainly.
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  11. #1121

    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    You're all more optimistic than the government certainly.
    We are going to hit the 100 million dose goal about 60 days into Biden's term. There is much to be optimistic about.

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  12. #1122
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    The ramp up has started in earnest. While supply and transport has been the issue to date, we are rapidly approaching a time when reticence will be the only remaining obstacle.

    Interestingly, there are reports that Trump is angered that he is not receiving lots of credit for the vaccination success to date (despite Geraldo's effort to name one for him). I just shook my head. Trump could have known the likely approval dates, ramped up FEMA centers for day one of vaccine release, and then made I speech saying go get vaccinated. Instead he fought the election results. What a putz.
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  13. #1123
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    The ramp up has started in earnest. While supply and transport has been the issue to date, we are rapidly approaching a time when reticence will be the only remaining obstacle.

    Interestingly, there are reports that Trump is angered that he is not receiving lots of credit for the vaccination success to date (despite Geraldo's effort to name one for him). I just shook my head. Trump could have known the likely approval dates, ramped up FEMA centers for day one of vaccine release, and then made I speech saying go get vaccinated. Instead he fought the election results. What a putz.
    This is my frustration as well. He could have publicly gotten the vaccine, but decided to get it in secret. But its Biden's fault that so many Republicans arent willing to get the shot?

    Anyways I got my first shot of the Moderna vaccine today. Not expecting any serious side effects for this one, but people tell me that the second shot is a doozy.

    Edit: so far, just a sore arm. Not too bad.
    Last edited by Hooahguy; 03-14-2021 at 00:11.
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  14. #1124
    Coffee farmer extraordinaire Member spmetla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    I got my first shot of Moderna last Sunday, didn't get any side effects. Heard the same about the second shot.

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  15. #1125
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Wifey and I had the second shot of pfizer over a week ago.
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  16. #1126

    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Tomorrow CA is allowing people under 65 and/or healthcare/teachers to schedule a vaccine. But only for those with sever health complications.

    I'll probably be staying in my bunker until sometime in May.


  17. #1127

    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Mindbending graph.




    Of course everything should be crossreferenced against aggregates when possible, but it's wild to try to interpret this finding that white and black Americans have roughly the same willingness to receive vaccination, as well even as roughly the same rate of inoculation so far. Hard to square with the disparity in some of the White/White-implicit crosstabs in the same poll, as well as reporting on racial inequity on inoculation in practice.


    Quote Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name View Post
    We are going to hit the 100 million dose goal about 60 days into Biden's term. There is much to be optimistic about.
    Joe Biden thinks every adult ought to be offered the vaccine by the end of May, so we have a fine opportunity to judge between the feds and the state on realism.

    Trivia: A year ago, New York and California had the same number of nursing home residents (~100K), even though California is about twice as populous.
    Last edited by Montmorency; 03-15-2021 at 00:37.
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  18. #1128

    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Eyecatching table of national orders of Chinese vaccines.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Essay that purports to summarize the "near-universal failure" of countries in the Americas and Europe to respond consistently and effectively to the pandemic.

    Certainly, any iteration on pandemic preparedness doctrines worth its salt will have to accommodate restive populations and saboteur politicians, at least. And public health professionals need to take their own longstanding advice on being forthright and clear with adult nationals.
    Last edited by Montmorency; 03-29-2021 at 05:18.
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  19. #1129

    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    OK, that escalated quickly.



    On the other hand, we've been slower than average in vaccination rate, and our Euro-style secular stagnation...

    New York State is now home to the country’s second-highest rate of new daily infections per 100,000 residents over the past two weeks (548), behind only neighboring New Jersey, which has had a 14-day average of 647 new cases per 100,000 residents. Infections in New York State and City, still extremely high despite having dropped significantly from their mid-winter peak, have been trending up again — and it’s not precisely clear why.


    Cuomo's relaxed many restrictions since January, up to allowing 100 people to gather indoors starting next week. I wonder about California.


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  20. #1130
    Coffee farmer extraordinaire Member spmetla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    It's crazy how everyone is easing things up so early. Here I am in an island state that needs tourism yet a year later we still don't have a solid system for keeping the 20k visitors a day in quarantine.

    Just hoping the vaccination roll out continues on pretty well so that even if the cases rise that the hospitals aren't overwhelmed.

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    Stage three, we say that maybe we should do something about it, but there's nothing we can do.
    Stage four, we say maybe there was something we could have done, but it's too late now.

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  21. #1131
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Yeah its definitely concerning how quickly people are opening back up especially since not all that many people are vaccinated yet. Also have been noticing more people walking around with no mask lately. At least I get my second shot in a week and a half.
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  22. #1132
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Florida is in the top numbers of both vaccinations and rate of infection. The joys of a deeply purple status.
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  23. #1133
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    And it seems that we, as a country, haven't learned a damn thing about how this virus works. In March/April of 2020, New York and Michigan were amongst the several leading states in cases and deaths. Now here we are in March/April 2021, and New York and Michigan are once again "leading the way." Michigan is #1 with a bullet in cases per 100k @53.7, New Jersey @50.3, and New York @42.0 [as per the Covid Act Now data]. You'd think with the new variants making themselves felt, that prudency would be the rule of the day.

    With most medical experts saying that something north of 70% of the population needs to be vaccinated to ensure "herd immunity", the ridiculously low numbers (when considering the threshold whereby greater social relaxing can occur), is simply inexcusable on the part of government officials. Here in Michigan, the number of people with both doses is 16.6%, and those with a single dose is 28% (for the two dose vaccines). That's simply not even close to what's required. Positivity rate has tripled from 3.4% on 1 March, to 12% as of today. Just a month and a half ago, Michigan had an R0 of .89, and infections were declining steadily. As of today, the R0 is 1.28 and rising. While the death rate hasn't risen as dramatically...yet, hospitalizations have climbed from a seven day average of 847 on 1 March, to a seven day average of 1780 as of today.

    People are tired of pandemic restrictions...I get it. But damn, just hang on a month or two longer until the % of those vaccinated gets at least north of 50%. As per a year ago, Europe is providing ample evidence for what's to come. This time it's about slow rollout of vaccination, and opening up too quickly, too soon.

    Jeezus I'm tired of Americans whining about their damn precious personal freedoms when all that's happening is that folks like me who've done the right things in following protocol have to wait even longer to be able to have a reasonable life again.
    Last edited by ReluctantSamurai; 04-02-2021 at 00:53.
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  24. #1134
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Not to mention that theres a question about whether or not 70% of Americans will even get the vaccine with a rather significant portion of people saying they wont get it, most of whom are Republicans. We are in deep deep trouble I think.
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  25. #1135
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooahguy View Post
    Not to mention that theres a question about whether or not 70% of Americans will even get the vaccine with a rather significant portion of people saying they wont get it, most of whom are Republicans. We are in deep deep trouble I think.
    Herd immunity is achieved when antibodies are present in a high enough percentage of the population to mitigate against rapid infection spread and make it hard for the virus to be communicated. Rates vary with rates of contagion. Measles, for example, is very contagious and needs about 94% coverage in a population. COVID-19 is not quite as contagious (mostly because unlike measles it decays more rapidly on surfaces etc. and because the parent strain does not have quite as high an aerosol vector risk as does measles) but is very likely NOT going to be stopped with a mere 70% coverage.

    Herd immunity is still inevitable, however, since you also acquire antibodies by ignoring the vaccine and getting sick with COVID-19. That so many of the people in my country choose such is saddening to me.

    Unfortunately, the non-vaxers can still spread COVID to the immunized and, in rare instances, cause the death of those persons who are physically too weak to withstand even a vaccine-attenuated bout of COVID-19. Can you say "civic duty?"

    I believe that my rights stop at your nose -- if I wish to endanger myself I may do so as long as I do not thereby endanger you. In this situation, 'standing on your rights' to not vax is proclaiming something akin to "I matter, you don't, fuck off."

    Not happy making.

    EDIT: Pfizer dose number two received 3/28/2021; live-in mom-in-law completed both in late January. Both my children and wife got their second doses this morning.
    Last edited by Seamus Fermanagh; 04-01-2021 at 21:16.
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  26. #1136
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    [...]but is very likely NOT going to be stopped with a mere 70% coverage
    Even the experts don't agree on what point is enough, and there isn't enough data to provide anything more than a vague idea. But the fly-in-the-ointment is that if the vaccination process doesn't move much more quickly than it has, particularly in economically poor countries, and the pandemic continues to run rampant, the virus will find ways to both evade the protections provided by the vaccine, and become more deadly both in it's transmissibility, and it's lethality. The P1 variant has already shown a propensity to reinfect people who've already contracted a different variant. It's also the variant, along with the B117 that is possibly driving the increase here in Michigan, as many of the new cases are from this variant.

    So you may be correct that a 70% vaccination level may not be enough, but you can't stop a freight train on a dime. You apply the brakes in a constant and controlled manner. If folks just kept their masks handy for when they have to spend an extended period of time indoors in a crowd, even after being vaccinated, we'd all be a lot better off....except we still keep seeing crazy shit like the Spring Break crowds in Miami Beach...
    Last edited by ReluctantSamurai; 04-02-2021 at 11:27.
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  27. #1137

    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19



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  28. #1138
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Wicked.
    Much more than that, I think. This is one of the reasons the US is in the situation it's in today. Rampant mis-information (and duplicitous BS, considering FN studio protocol) that goes unchallenged on media outlets like Fox, that uninformed people suck up like it's their last meal on death row.

    I ration my daily news intake considerably now. If I don't, it just feels like my head will explode in frustration and anger.
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  29. #1139
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post
    ... a 70% vaccination level may not be enough, but you can't stop a freight train on a dime. You apply the brakes in a constant and controlled manner. If folks just kept their masks handy for when they have to spend an extended period of time indoors in a crowd, even after being vaccinated, we'd all be a lot better off....except we still keep seeing crazy shit like the Spring Break crowds in Miami Beach...
    I agree. I was noting that the all-too-common "we're through to the end" sentiments are NOT accurate. There is a ways still to go and it probably isn't reached at 7 in 10.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

  30. #1140

    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    We'll see. Israel has had its share of the population with at least one dose hovering around 60% for a month (with almost all of those fully inoculated), and their new cases have plummeted to a tenth of their early-March level. On current priors summer ought to be smooth sailing - for the US.

    Hopefully Cuba covers the Global South.
    Last edited by Montmorency; 04-04-2021 at 17:21.
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