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Thread: Coronavirus / COVID-19

  1. #1231

    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Yes, it was an incredible perspective to publish. Essentially: Vaccines and other public health measures are good and effective, but actually bad and nefarious, because liberals are trying to kill conservatives by promoting them, whereas it is well known that if a liberal nagging nanny tells a red-blooded patriot not to jump off a bridge, the cause of freedom demands self-defenestration. How could vaccines and public health measures be tolerable when godless communists are wielding them as an assassin's blade of reverse psychology?

    ...

    How to treat someone as your fellow man who has absorbed to effect such an infantile mentality of oppositional defiance? Much worse than an infant, for the level of violence, destruction, and malaise they perpetrate against us, yet without the moral status or future potential.


    Meanwhile, vaccine mandates need to be extended as widely as feasible. E.g. dozens of state troopers in Massachusetts (and many police more generally around the country) threatened to resign over vaccine mandates. Ultimately only one has. In practice, 99% of people comply when faced by mandates.

    The surprisingly-widespread costs of Covid even amidst widespread vaccination.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    hen I got Covid in 2020 and spent weeks in the hospital, it was harrowing. But it was nothing compared to what my family is dealing with now—also as a result of Covid.

    This is a Covid horror story in which no one actually gets Covid, and it could still happen to anyone �� In August my dad was living independently in rural New Mexico, as he has for years, in a beautiful place with a view of the mountains. He got vaxxed against Covid as soon as it was available, wore masks, and was waiting out the pandemic like the rest of us.

    Then, he had a fall. When I called and he admitted that he was in the hospital, he was more annoyed than anything else. He tripped, he hurt his leg, couldn’t go home for a week or so. How irritating. How dumb. He blamed himself. He loved me, hoped I was well, he was fine, etc. That was the last call.

    What happened was that while in the hospital, my dad caught viral pneumonia that went unnoticed. The whole state was in lockdown, and every hospital ICU was filling up with unvaccinated Covid patients. There weren’t enough resources. The governor begged people to get vaxxed. My dad was not in the ICU, but in a physical rehab unit of the hospital to help him with his leg. They now say they did not know he had pneumonia at that point.

    He collapsed on the floor in his room and was left there, unnoticed, for six hours. When they found him he was blue and had an oxygen level of 50. He did not have Covid. He was taken to the ER and put on a ventilator, but they had to put him in *a storage room* because there physically not enough space due to all the unvaccinated Covid cases.

    Twenty-four hours later, he was off the vent and his oxygen levels were restored. My siblings, who live closer, flew in. I spoke to him, and he was out of it but okay. Surely he would get treatment now. We thought that was the worst of it. It was not.

    It was later explained to me that this hospital decided to *re-intubate my father* due to a lack of hospital resources. They couldn’t manage. He could not see a cardiologist or a pulmonologist, they were all busy. They could not run the needed tests. So they kept him on the vent.

    In normal circumstances, they simply would have transferred my dad to a larger hospital. There were several close by. It would have been routine. But due to Covid, it was impossible—so impossible, they thought, that they didn’t even tell me he needed to be transferred.

    A few days later, while I had thought my dad was improving—I kept being reassured by the nurses when I called—I finally called and got an exhausted, angry nurse who said bluntly: “we are tapped out and because of that your father is going to die. Maybe today. I’m sorry.”

    I demanded to speak to the doctor and he said more or less the same thing. The state was maxed out. My dad needed a cardiac ICU bed, or at least a cardiologist, and there was nothing for him. There was no hope, and no point even trying. Everywhere was full of the unvaccinated.

    Now, there have been other stories like ours in the news over the past month or so. There was the father who was turned away from 43 ICUs and sadly passed away. People were being flown across state lines to try to save them, their families in terror, the health systems in chaos. My dad’s doctor said that New Mexico’s ICU bed planning was centralized, so there was no point calling NM hospitals, but I could try ICUs in CO, AZ, TX, UT, CA—even though, he said, they had already tried all those. He would try again. I could call. I think he was humoring me.

    The doctor said to “send him any leads” so when I called the hospitals, I said I was calling on his behalf. I never said I was his assistant or medical staff, but they talked to me. They were all maxed out. Nothing they could do. After about five panicked hours of contacting every hospital, every person I could think of, and screaming my helplessness into the maw of the internet to see if anyone, anyone at all could help us, we finally reached a doctor in an ABQ hospital ICU who agreed to admit my dad.

    So that was two weeks ago. If he’d gotten to that ICU even hours later, we would have lost him. They had to perform heroic acts to stabilize him. In a week his pneumonia had been brought under control, and he was starting to heal. They talked about a full recovery.

    However. By that point my dad had been on a vent for more than ten days, simply because of a lack of access to care. If you’re a med professional, you know why this matters. All signs looked good and so they decided to extubate him. At first he tolerated it, and then…he didn’t.

    Three days later, they had to intubate my dad for the third time. They said that doing this could result in a permanent disability. He could fully recover, but he also might not ever be independent again. They gave me the option of “making him comfortable” instead, and you know what that means.

    But I’m my dad’s PoA and he’d been clear that he wanted people to fight for him in a circumstance like this, so I said no. I told them to fight and do whatever they could to save him. To save my dad, they had to perform a tracheostomy for long-term weaning from the ventilator. That means making a hole in his windpipe. “Like Stephen Hawking,” someone said. It might be temporary, it might not. They didn’t know if it would save him, but so far at least, it has.

    I think of my dad before all this happened, still working, living in his own (rented) home, looking out at the mountains, calling his children in California and in France.

    The doctors and nurses say that a full recovery and getting off the trache is possible, but will be hard. They also say that none of this would have happened if it were not for the fact that so many people remain unvaccinated against Covid. Even in NM, with a decent vaccination rate, the system is overrun.

    Please get vaccinated. Wear a mask. You never know how it will affect you.


    Seriously, if we're going to have widespread " you, we're full" triage, let the unvaccinated get the short straw. Let them be ready come winter.
    Last edited by Montmorency; 09-29-2021 at 05:22.
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  2. #1232
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    I hate having the feds trump state government.
    I hate having unfunded federal mandates pushed onto state government and/or private enterprises.
    I hate paying my taxes to fund 'do-gooder' projects outside my country that wallow in graft (not that we are free of it domestically, it just isn't much in the way of 'wallowing' sve for the Congress) and then spew hatred back at my country after the handout.

    But it is a malfing pandemic and we must needs do all of these things, even if only motivated by our own long term selfish greed as opposed to a decent sense of humanity.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

  3. #1233
    Member Member Xantan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    As an non-American, I always found it interesting how for many it's always "state first" rather than the country as a whole. When it comes to external affairs, America first and of course the flag, when it comes to domestic issues, states rights are always more important.

    There was this unreal story recently from Alabama where COVID funds were directed to make a prison. Ignoring for a second the sheer absurdity and monstrosity, this would never fly in a centralised state.

  4. #1234

    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Quote Originally Posted by Xantan View Post
    There was this unreal story recently from Alabama where COVID funds were directed to make a prison. Ignoring for a second the sheer absurdity and monstrosity, this would never fly in a centralised state.
    It would in North Korea, probably.
    Vitiate Man.

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  5. #1235
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    I hate having the feds trump state government.
    This really belongs in another thread, but for sake of continuity, I put it here.

    What do you suggest being done about this:

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...-money/620298/

    So...states rights to do whatever they please---in this case laundering billions worth of dirty money, or oversight by the feds to stop such practices (which likely will never happen because that's the proverbial fox managing the hen house)?

    Go ahead and post a reply in the Shenanigan's thread, if you'd like (probably the most appropriate thread)...
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  6. #1236
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    We've all seen our share of horrific stories involving Covidiot's. I thought I'd seen it all when that vid last fall depicted a middle-aged man claiming he must have lung cancer or pneumonia, instead of COVID-19, even as he was dying. But this...this one takes the cake, so far:

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jeffrey...ots-poisoning/

    A Maryland man charged in the deaths of his brother, sister-in-law and another woman may have killed his brother, a pharmacist, because the brother was administering COVID-19 vaccines, charging documents show, according to CBS Washington, D.C. affiliate WUSA-TV.

    Jeffrey Burnham, 46, of Cumberland, "wanted to confront" his brother "with the government poisoning people with COVID vaccines," one document reads, adding, "He repeatedly stated, 'Brian knows something!'"

    The documents say Burnham also killed Robinette's wife, 57-year-old Kelly Sue Robinette and another woman, identified as 83-year-old Rebecca Reynolds.
    Absolute insanity...
    High Plains Drifter

  7. #1237

    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    The anti-Covid vaccinism of the Right follows its logical course.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Rep. Jim Jordan is one of the top Republicans in the House.

    Rep. Jim Jordan
    @Jim_Jordan
    Ohio should ban all vaccine mandates.
    1:28 PM · Oct 12, 2021·Twitter for iPhone
    So it proceeds.

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  8. #1238
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    The Bevis & Butthead Syndrome may be the worst "disease" sweeping the US:

    https://khn.org/news/article/over-ha...s-in-pandemic/

    Republican legislators in more than half of U.S. states, spurred on by voters angry about lockdowns and mask mandates, are taking away the powers state and local officials use to protect the public against infectious diseases.

    A KHN review of hundreds of pieces of legislation found that, in all 50 states, legislators have proposed bills to curb such public health powers since the covid-19 pandemic began. While some governors vetoed bills that passed, at least 26 states pushed through laws that permanently weaken government authority to protect public health. In three additional states, an executive order, ballot initiative or state Supreme Court ruling limited long-held public health powers. More bills are pending in a handful of states whose legislatures are still in session.
    In my line of work, weekend warriors, otherwise known as do-it-yourself'ers, can only kill you with faulty wiring projects. These self-appointed DIY'ers are going to be the cause for thousands of deaths sometime in the future:

    In at least 16 states, legislators have limited the power of public health officials to order mask mandates, or quarantines or isolation. In some cases, they gave themselves or local elected politicians the authority to prevent the spread of infectious disease.
    This quote from Arkansas Sen. Trent Garner high-points the abysmal arrogance of lawmakers:

    “What the people of Arkansas want is the decision to be left in their hands, to them and their family,” Garner said. “It’s time to take the power away from the so-called experts, whose ideas have been woefully inadequate.”
    And where do such idiots like Sen. Garner go when they get seriously ill? Yep, the "so-called experts".

    The biggest idiots of all, so far, are Montana state legislators:

    Montana’s legislature passed some of the most restrictive laws of all, severely curbing public health’s quarantine and isolation powers, increasing local elected officials’ power over local health boards, preventing limits on religious gatherings and banning employers — including in health care settings — from requiring vaccinations for covid, the flu or anything else. Legislators there also passed limits on local officials: If jurisdictions add public health rules stronger than state public health measures, they could lose 20% of some grants.
    How about this one Montana?

    https://www.wired.com/2014/09/peter-...a-photographs/

    CFR for Ebola ranges from 25% in mild variants, to as high as 90% in the Ebola-Zaire variant.

    These self-appointed "medical experts" had better get familiar with these "old friends":

    https://hcavirginia.com/blog/entry/h...e-are-they-now

    I wonder which so-called experts these Bevis & Butthead nut-jobs will turn to when Ebola or something similar turns up in America again...as it inevitably will...
    Last edited by ReluctantSamurai; 10-22-2021 at 15:04.
    High Plains Drifter

  9. #1239

    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Australia has overtaken the US in vaccination rates, most of its full-dose spread having been achieved over the past two months. Meanwhile, the US seems to be experiencing an unprecedented surge of STIs due to a lack of education and medical infrastructure, as well as declining condom usage.

    I just noticed that Romania basically halted vaccination during the summer, what's up with that? @edyzmedieval
    Vitiate Man.

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  10. #1240
    Ja mata, TosaInu Forum Administrator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Unfortunately, the situation in Romania is catastrophic. There's no sugarcoating around it, it's catastrophical.

    In the summer, the government announced the pandemic is over. It was incredibly short sighted so as a result, a already vaccine-skeptic population straight up ignored the pleas (pleas, public, on TV, on radio, YouTube, everywhere) of the doctors. Now, well... how do I put this kindly, we are doing worse than Italy is doing last year when the pandemic started. I cannot express my fury and straight up disappointment, we're close to 20.000 cases a day for the past 2 weeks or so. And our vaccination rate is 34% as of end of October 2021.

    Why? Historical distrust of governments and a general lack of trust in everything around us. It's a catastrophe, there are literally no more beds available. For 2 weeks now.
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  11. #1241
    Coffee farmer extraordinaire Member spmetla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    My heart goes out to you folks and I hope you stay safe.

    "Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?"
    -Abraham Lincoln


    Four stage strategy from Yes, Minister:
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    Stage two, we say something may be about to happen, but we should do nothing about it.
    Stage three, we say that maybe we should do something about it, but there's nothing we can do.
    Stage four, we say maybe there was something we could have done, but it's too late now.

  12. #1242
    Ja mata, TosaInu Forum Administrator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Thank you @spmetla.

    The EU, of which I am a big fan of, has contributed significantly to the recent efforts. Thank you as well to the governments of the countries, particularly Italy and if I remember well, Denmark and France as well. We got sent monoclonal treatment vials (from Italy), ventilators & other supplies.
    Ja mata, TosaInu. You will forever be remembered.

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  13. #1243
    Member Member Crandar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Quote Originally Posted by edyzmedieval View Post
    Thank you @spmetla.

    The EU, of which I am a big fan of, has contributed significantly to the recent efforts. Thank you as well to the governments of the countries, particularly Italy and if I remember well, Denmark and France as well. We got sent monoclonal treatment vials (from Italy), ventilators & other supplies.
    What's the position of the church? I have read that it is quite ambivalent, with some bishops supporting vaccination, others vehemently rejecting it and Daniel refusing to express his opinion. His silence is viewed as an implicit disapproval of vaccination.

  14. #1244
    Ja mata, TosaInu Forum Administrator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    They're currently trying to stay out of the spotlight because of a investigative journalism piece that was released about a week ago. That piece became #1 on Trending over here and it really had a crater effect on their public image.

    This week they came out saying the population needs to respect the recommendations of doctors - quite ambivalent.
    Ja mata, TosaInu. You will forever be remembered.

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    A Painted Shield of Honour - 1313. Templar Knights in France are in grave danger. Can they be saved?

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  15. #1245
    Member Member Crandar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Quote Originally Posted by edyzmedieval View Post
    They're currently trying to stay out of the spotlight because of a investigative journalism piece that was released about a week ago. That piece became #1 on Trending over here and it really had a crater effect on their public image.

    This week they came out saying the population needs to respect the recommendations of doctors - quite ambivalent.
    Interesting and maybe also useful, if it convinces more people to vaccinate. Could you share it or is it behind a paywall? I imagine it's written in Romanian, but Google is doing a decent job with Latin languages, so I could at least get the general gist of it.

  16. #1246

    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Almost every advanced economy has long surpassed the US in vaccinations by now - hell, much of Latin America has - but moving the analysis up a level still gives this data from the beginning of the month a punch.




    It's interesting how since the summer, countries like Germany, France, and the UK have hit a ceiling for vaccination at about 2/3 of the population (already surpassed by ANZAC latecomers), whereas countries like Spain, Portugal, and China have vaccinated basically every eligible adult. For Israel, which plateaued in the spring, it's more obvious why...
    Vitiate Man.

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  17. #1247
    Coffee farmer extraordinaire Member spmetla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    It's interesting how since the summer, countries like Germany, France, and the UK have hit a ceiling for vaccination at about 2/3 of the population (already surpassed by ANZAC latecomers), whereas countries like Spain, Portugal, and China have vaccinated basically every eligible adult. For Israel, which plateaued in the spring, it's more obvious why...
    They've hit the vaccine 'wall' of people that are either anti-vac or just don't think them necessary; especially so if a government they're wary of is pushing it.

    In my extended family it seems all my male relatives have the shot and all my female relatives don't 'trust' this vaccine and refuse to get it despite getting every other shot that're are normal in the US.

    Half my extended family being originally from Austria it's crazy how they're calling the current measures there as quasi-nazi. There's a lockdown for the people that are clogging up the hospitals. Beats doing a 100% lockdown again and no better incentive to get the fence sitters to go and get a shot.

    I'm thinking that only when the anti-viral COVID pills are readily available everywhere to treat people that got the virus but not the shot but are diagnosed early enough, then we may finally see this pandemic end as it just becomes another treatable disease.
    Last edited by spmetla; 11-19-2021 at 07:51.

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    Stage two, we say something may be about to happen, but we should do nothing about it.
    Stage three, we say that maybe we should do something about it, but there's nothing we can do.
    Stage four, we say maybe there was something we could have done, but it's too late now.

  18. #1248

    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Australia and New Zealand have vaccinated three-quarters of their populations in half a year. How did they succeed where others haven't?
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  19. #1249
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Huge spike in cases, both in county and state. Link
    Positivity rate soaring, especially in county. Link
    Vaccination rate among college age below state and national averages. Link

    Answer? Open school as usual, normal class modes, on January 10th as scheduled.




    An administrator finally said we can use distance learning for the first few weeks...
    Last edited by Seamus Fermanagh; 01-05-2022 at 22:14.
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  20. #1250

    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    The US and EU have done a better job facilitating vaccine transfers to lower-income countries than I expected they would pre-Delta. More than a billion doses* delivered so far including bilateral donations, donations to COVAX, monetary contributions bilaterally and to COVAX, and cost-sharing. A few billion more promised for this year, not implausibly. The majority of the human population had received a full course inoculation by the beginning of the winter (implying the majority of low-income countries' needs can easily be met through our 1st World efforts), so the only real obstacle we continue to face is advanced denialism and pro-virus political movements worldwide.
    https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covi...very-mechanism
    https://www.unicef.org/supply/covid-...rket-dashboard

    *Possibly many millions more if including doses purchased directly by COVAX using donor contributions, but I've had a hard time hashing out what exactly has been physically delivered to donee countries so far, and by what mechanism.

    On the other hand, it seems I was wrong to argue that sharing mRNA vaccine patents and expertise with mid-income countries like India and Brazil wouldn't have much effect on the pandemic. Had that work begun in mid-2021, capacity for hundreds of millions more monthly doses of Comirnaty and the other one could have been projected to be online before the end of this year. Though to be fair, back in June I was hoping the pandemic would formally conclude by the end of 2022, obviating future vaccine demand. Maybe if we're lucky with Omicron it still will.
    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...-vaccines.html
    Last edited by Montmorency; 01-23-2022 at 23:57.
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  21. #1251

    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Looks like common sense:

    THREAD: I keep being asked when we can go "back to normal" or "like it was before". My personal thoughts:

    We've added a new disease to our population, more infectious and more severe than flu.

    The world pre 2020 no longer exists - we may want it to, but it just doesn't.

    Vaccines are amazing but do wane - esp vs sympomatic infection. Immunity from infection wanes too.

    Surely Omicron has proven that high levels of antibodies in your population are no guarantee against v high levels of illness & disruption.

    We *could* act as we used to & accept millions of people getting sick once or twice a year. Yearly education, business disruption. And gradually, a slightly sicker pop'n. That seems to be the current plan in UK and e.g. US.

    But that's NOT the *old normal* - it's worse

    We *can't* go back - but we *can* go forward *if* we accept we need some adaptations - driven by what we have *learned*.

    Learning:

    1. Outdoors is pretty safe - so let's invest research and funding into making indoor air as much like the outdoors as possible It's *not* easy, but it *is* possible - we did it with clean water, electricity infrastructure, CFCs, telephone and broadband... The best thing about cleaner indoor air is it works against *any* airborne disease and also reduces e.g. allergies.

    2. Vaccinate the world as soon as possible - and keep working towards vaccines that are longer lasting and more variant proof.

    3. Invest in global infrastructure to support surveillance of new variants of Covid *and* other new infectious diseases. There will be more.

    4. Add permanent surveillance of Covid infection rates in UK to existing programmes for flu, measles etc in public health

    5. Invest in understanding & treating longer term clinical impacts of Covid, inc organ damage & Long Covid + treatments (eg antivirals) for acute phase.

    6. We need to urgently increase funding and staffing for NHS if it is expected to cope with regular Covid surges *and* existing backlogs *and* years of understaffing and not enough money. This includes *supporting* existing staff to stay..!

    7. There *will* still be future surges. We need to have a plan to deal with these surges - as we do for other diseases. A plan which is supported by the rapid outbreak identification & rapid understanding of virulence & transmission we've learned to do so well in the UK! The plan might include (temp) reintroduction of large scale testing (inc better tests?), high quality masks in indoor spaces and - *if & only if* there is a serious threat from e.g. a new variant (or disease!) - further measures, such as targeted test, trace & isolate. A plan should *not* mean long national lockdowns, which represent a failure of public health systems. In fact, refusing to do the *learning* in "learning to live with Covid" is the biggest risk for such future lockdowns.

    8. We also need to invest massively in reducing inequalities: in health, in housing, in workplaces, in sick pay, in education - this will make us more resilient to future outbreaks and reduce ill health and death - from Covid & everything else!

    Both nationally & globally. Fundamentally, world is different now. Acting as if it isn't, which UK seems determined to do, may feel good in short term but will result in a new normal worse than the old one.

    I prefer for us to build a new normal that's *better* than frequent sickness & disruption. 13/13
    Last edited by Montmorency; 02-12-2022 at 18:43.
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  22. #1252
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    I'm confused by the premise of the article:

    "A new world demanding new solutions, and one in which the US and UK are refusing to recognise!"

    Most of those measures are ones that the UK at least is just as far in support of as many other nations, and possibly a damn sight further than most too. #2 #3 #4 #5 #6

    #1 does seem to speak to the new paradigm the author refers too, and while it is not at all clear to me that this is a direction that the UK is prioritising nor too can I see any definitive trend to that goal that leaves the UK looking like an outlier. And don't forget, Sturgeon (in the UK) has an ambitious plan to saw the bottoms off of school doors up and down the nation of scotland!

    #7 seems to be a mild sentiment in favour of good practice that would see appropriate measures applied in moderation as and when a situation demands it. Grand! But again, i'm not seeing the UK as an outlier here...

    #8 is interesting tho: "We also need to invest massively in reducing inequalities...". This is hardly a revelatory change in response to some grand reset in how the world behaves post covid. It is quite literally how the US and UK have been as a general trend vs european social democracy. The two have always placed a greater emphasis on negative liberty than positive. It is the status-quo, that has survived 50 years of democratic choice, and will be up to the electorate if the want to upend the accepted political settlement just because covid came along.
    Last edited by Furunculus; 02-12-2022 at 19:45.
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  23. #1253

    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    She didn't say the UK is an outlier.
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  24. #1254
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    apologies if i misunderstood. perhaps i misread the opening section:

    The world pre 2020 no longer exists - we may want it to, but it just doesn't. Vaccines are amazing but do wane - esp vs sympomatic infection. Immunity from infection wanes too. Surely Omicron has proven that high levels of antibodies in your population are no guarantee against v high levels of illness & disruption. We *could* act as we used to & accept millions of people getting sick once or twice a year. Yearly education, business disruption. And gradually, a slightly sicker pop'n. That seems to be the current plan in UK and e.g. US. But that's NOT the *old normal* - it's worse
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

  25. #1255

    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    apologies if i misunderstood. perhaps i misread the opening section:
    Her take is that the US and UK are not investing adequately in Covid prevention and mitigation, presumptively with the continuation of results that we've seen in prior waves of infection (unless the pandemic happens to wind down) - not that the US and UK are unusual in this.

    Meanwhile, in Hong Kong bizarro world:

    Quote Originally Posted by The Economist
    Controlled borders, ubiquitous mask-wearing and strict quarantining meant months have sometimes passed without a locally transmitted infection. But one side-effect was the elderly not wanting (or not bothering) to be jabbed. Only 30% of over-80s and 60% of over-70s have chosen to have a first dose, compared with 86% of residents aged 12-69.
    Did they run out of points in attribute allocation?
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  26. #1256

    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Again emphasizing the strong effects of vaccination and of age.



    For reference, less than 1% of the American population consists of unvaccinated senior citizens. Maybe no more than 2.5% of the population if counting unvaccinated people over 50. And yet almost all the Covid deaths and hospitalizations since the summer, all the degradation of our healthcare system, the criminal Republican politics and the street violence and harassment and anti-masking, the people who make liberal politicians timid in the inseam, come out of this cohort.

    2.5%. You think any human settlement from 99.9% of our history would have hesitated to banish 2 or 3 folks like this? If they weren't already in charge that is...
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  27. #1257

    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Beautiful. Though I think the author conflates IFR (infection fatality ratio) with CFR (case fatality ratio), since the caption indicates only a confirmed set of cases was used as data.

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  28. #1258

    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    The Taiwanese are very successful in preventing their infection rate from skyrocketing without using draconian measures. Amongst the countries with low infections, Taiwan has one of the larger populations. Taiwan noticed that something was wrong in China early on and acted quickly. Taiwan tried to warn the world, but the country is excluded from the WHO due to the complex relationship with China.
    Wooooo!!!

  29. #1259

    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    EDIT: Wrong thread.
    Last edited by Montmorency; 03-04-2022 at 07:08.
    Vitiate Man.

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  30. #1260

    Default Re: Coronavirus / COVID-19

    Sometimes I wonder if the Delta variant is still spreading or whether it's mostly Omicron now.
    Wooooo!!!

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