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Thread: Economic Shenanigans / Market Crisis

  1. #31
    Senior Member Senior Member Idaho's Avatar
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    Default Re: Economic Shenanigans / Market Crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by edyzmedieval View Post
    You're not wrong about this. With this crisis all of a sudden people realised how important it is to have safety nets to protect those vulnerable.
    Especially, now that many Americans have realised that all working people who rely on a steady income are vulnerable.
    "The republicans will draft your kids, poison the air and water, take away your social security and burn down black churches if elected." Gawain of Orkney

  2. #32
    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Economic Shenanigans / Market Crisis

    I would have thought this is a no brainer - but given massive economic events have happened several times previously (I mean, Detroit not only imploded over a number of decades but then went bankrupt) and within a few years we're back to again discussing the fact the USA has no safety net I'm not convinced that this will be different to another bump in the road.

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
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  3. #33
    Ja mata, TosaInu Forum Administrator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: Economic Shenanigans / Market Crisis

    Honestly it should. As an European, and a European who lived in other countries too and has seen almost 30 of them, some things for me related to America are absolutely baffling and incomprehensible.

    I genuinely think it's high time that systemic changes are done otherwise it will only spiral worse.
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  4. #34
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Economic Shenanigans / Market Crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by edyzmedieval View Post
    Honestly it should. As an European, and a European who lived in other countries too and has seen almost 30 of them, some things for me related to America are absolutely baffling and incomprehensible.

    I genuinely think it's high time that systemic changes are done otherwise it will only spiral worse.
    Most of those comparisons in your head are unified states. As in, one national government that wields the large bulk of political power. That does not obtain in the USA (at least yet) despite the efforts of Hamilton, Lincoln, Roosevelt, FDR, and others to shift us away from dispersed (what we label "federalized" power) to that of a stronger Central government. Our national government is our biggest power bloc, but often cannot do X, Y, or Z over the opposition of various state governments.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

  5. #35

    Default Re: Economic Shenanigans / Market Crisis

    Funny saw about real-life events:
    The world is on the cusp of an economic depression.
    International relations are an increasingly-violent maelstrom of great-power posturing.
    A US Republican lawmaker named Hawley takes the Capitol floor to declaim against free trade and the reds...
    What is the year?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    Most of those comparisons in your head are unified states. As in, one national government that wields the large bulk of political power. That does not obtain in the USA (at least yet) despite the efforts of Hamilton, Lincoln, Roosevelt, FDR, and others to shift us away from dispersed (what we label "federalized" power) to that of a stronger Central government. Our national government is our biggest power bloc, but often cannot do X, Y, or Z over the opposition of various state governments.
    Heretofore the United States was as close to unitary union as any federal state has come. Congress could preempt vast bodies of state law if it chose to (as it often has in the past, e.g. regulatory matters). The states have been desperate for the federal government to take the lead in this crisis. That it hasn't this time, choosing instead to undermine the states, is not an element of our federalism but of our descent toward failed state status a la early-90s Russia or Somalia - pick your poison.

    Anyway, on the subject of the thread the bottom line remains that neglecting to borrow trillions at zero interest rates in order to provide relief, sustain government services, prime the economy, or even refinance outstanding debt, during one of the worst downturns
    - in the context of an increasingly-brittle world system - of all time is a world-historical level of fiscal irresponsibility, of Hetty-Greenism, that will reverberate for the remainder of recorded time. One more casual theft from future generations.

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  6. #36
    Backordered Member CrossLOPER's Avatar
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    Default Re: Economic Shenanigans / Market Crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    Excuse my departure from my usual aloofness but what in the f*** are you doing over there?
    Requesting suggestions for new sig.

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  7. #37
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Economic Shenanigans / Market Crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by CrossLOPER View Post
    Excuse my departure from my usual aloofness but what in the f*** are you doing over there?
    Enacting Patrick Henry's vision for governance.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

  8. #38
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Economic Shenanigans / Market Crisis

    Excuse my departure from my usual aloofness but what in the f*** are you doing over there?
    Pull up a map of states alignment during the ACW. Look familiar? Not much has changed in 160 years....
    High Plains Drifter

  9. #39
    Backordered Member CrossLOPER's Avatar
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    Default Re: Economic Shenanigans / Market Crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    Enacting Patrick Henry's vision for governance.
    Looks about a coherent as a map of the HRE during the later years.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post
    Pull up a map of states alignment during the ACW. Look familiar? Not much has changed in 160 years....
    It's the northern protesters with the Confederate flags that I find amusing.
    Requesting suggestions for new sig.

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  10. #40

    Default Re: Economic Shenanigans / Market Crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by CrossLOPER View Post
    Looks about a coherent as a map of the HRE during the later years.
    Just so.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post
    Pull up a map of states alignment during the ACW. Look familiar? Not much has changed in 160 years....
    That's part of it, but the truth is it's so much messier. At least there were just two polities in the ACW-era. Remember, first time as tragedy, second time as farce.


    EDIT: By the way, the answer to the joke in my previous post is 1930/2020. I hope I don't have to explain it.
    Last edited by Montmorency; 05-25-2020 at 01:21.
    Vitiate Man.

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  11. #41
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Economic Shenanigans / Market Crisis

    It's the northern protesters with the Confederate flags that I find amusing.
    It's about rural and non-rural areas. Numbers wise, the urban areas probably sport more guns per capita than the non-urban areas. But it's the intent. In the cities guns are closely related to violent crimes that are primarily race or drug related. In rural areas, it's more like a badge of honor...the proverbial "Don't Tread On Me" mentality. The Michigan Freedom Fund (the group carrying out the protests) is financed primarily through the DeVos family based in Grand Rapids, MI, and the family has very close ties with Trump (Betsy DeVos is Trump's education secretary).

    At least there were just two polities in the ACW-era.
    And there are just two polities now, as I see it

    Conservative, mostly white, Republicans---and liberal Democrats. Oversimplification, I know, but most conflict can be drawn along those lines. Just look at your chart for those who wear masks in public, and those that don't. Pretty much aligned along party lines
    Last edited by ReluctantSamurai; 05-25-2020 at 17:21.
    High Plains Drifter

  12. #42

    Default Re: Economic Shenanigans / Market Crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post
    And there are just two polities now, as I see it

    Conservative, mostly white, Republicans---and liberal Democrats. Oversimplification, I know, but most conflict can be drawn along those lines. Just look at your chart for those who wear masks in public, and those that don't. Pretty much aligned along party lines
    Geographically it's more fragmented. The mountain states of the inner West aren't teaming up with the Southern states. The Northeast and mid-Atlantic aren't teaming up with the West Coast. It's like a fractal conflict.
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  13. #43
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Economic Shenanigans / Market Crisis

    The old saw about the HRE was that it wasn't Holy, wasn't Roman, and wasn't much of an Empire.

    Some days I fear that the USA is down to only the last letter.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

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