POTUS/General Election Thread 2020 + Aftermath

[Seamus Fermanagh]

They do.

They do not want a separate country and did not declare such (except perhaps for the CSA fantasists among them). They want "the left" to be crushed and broken so they can take full control of this country. They view this as returning it to the way it was and should be. They truly believe that straying from the simple virtues of God, guns, and tradition is an attempt to sell out the country to some form of world order.

Their vision of America is, at best, a halcyon distortion. Mostly it is a fantasy wherein their traditional views are the "ideal" just because they are comfortable with the implicit cultural power position that would accrue to them therein. The ideal to which they ascribe has never been an accurate depiction of the American experience -- yet they are willing to trample elements of the Constitution to preserve other elements they view as more important and obviate the electoral system on a whim in pursuit of power. Repulsive.

They don't even see that their standard bearer is simply using them to acquire that power and has a demonstrable track record of not sharing (or for that matter delegating effectively) the power given him.

More than many (any?) in this forum, I am a patriot of and apologist for the USA. I revel in the wonderful things my country has done for itself and others in our time as a polity. That said, to behave this way in pursuit of a fantasy that never was and gleefully ignores the problems and limitations of our nation and its history is ludicrous at best. Nothing in the Trump GOP speaks to the angels of our better nation as a people.

Three quarters of a century ago we, flaws and all, were part of an alliance that defeated the stormtrooper types. And now my former party -- or at least far too many of them -- is all too gleefully playing those same vile games and peddling lies and hate. Horst Wessel would find too many kindred spirits in Trumps deplorables.

[ReluctantSamurai]

They do not want a separate country and did not declare such

Sorry, you will never convince me of that. The divide is not about the Mason-Dixon line anymore, but of rural America and the cities. I spent 25 years of my life living in rural America. It's a different world that city slickers do not understand. City dwellers are viewed as welfare queens who want more government sucking the life and money out of the rest of the hard-working REAL Americans.

They want "the left" to be crushed and broken so they can take full control of this country.

And that would require "the left" to be confined to "blue districts" or else kicked out of the country, no?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Again, the CSA fantasists probably would want a separate country. I just think that isn't true of most of the rest of that crowd. They want power and control.

And I am well aware of the country v city divide in this.

[ReluctantSamurai]

I just think that isn't true of most of the rest of that crowd.

And yet they rally around a man whose values much more resembles the Stars and Bars than the Stars and Stripes.

[Gilrandir]

And yet they rally around a man whose values much more resembles the Stars and Bars than the Stars and Stripes.

As I said, if you want to live in one country with them, whatever their shortcomings might be, there should be a roadmap to win them to your side or at least make them neutral. The first step should be dissecting the Trump voter, since I'm sure people had various reasons why they voted for him. Then you should deal with each group piecemeal.

There are people who voted for Trump just because they like him personally. You can't do anything about it, I'm afraid, unless you act by reforming the very society so that arrogant ignorant bigotic bullies could just have no chance to come close to places where they could be elected anywhere, to say nothing of top positions. This is a long process but in my opinion the likes of Trump could never come to power in Europe. Ask them how they do it, but I'm guessing that free gun ownership has much to do with it.

There are people who voted for him because they always vote for Republicans. Changing this stupid tradition is again a long process (although not so long as the first one) but it is a double-edged sword. If people are persuaded that you should appraise the person not vote because he belongs to Republicans it will work the same for Democratic candidates, so shifting focus to individuals will deprive Democrats of "their voter" as well.

There are people who voted for Trump because he promised (and implemented) some steps that they liked. To appease them is the easiest (as compared to the first two groups). If Trump promised to bring industries back home, address this problem. If he promised to create jobs, address this problem. If he promised to stop immirgation, address this problem by introducing more sensible immigration policies (I saw black voters who said they would vote for Trump because he stopped the inflow of immigrants who stole jobs they were naturally engaged in). If he promised to mind international events less and focus on what happens inside the nation, address this problem. If he promised to make NATO allies pay on par with the USA, address this problem.

Thus, by SENSIBLE dealing with Trump's promises you will take all his trumps (pun is intentional) from him as his voters will see that what he promised is implemented by others who aren't that obscene. Because I'm sure, that there are plenty of reasonable and decent people who voted for him, not just a bunch of low-cultured yokels.

All of this is a long story, but IMHO you have no alternative. And if you keep saying like "The Good will triumph when we kill all bad people" it won't mend the existing divides but only deepen them.

[Idaho]

[ReluctantSamurai]

Democrats are perhaps making the same mistake they made in the recent general elections by believing that throwing millions of dollars to a candidate will get them elected:

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/1...-stocks-441956

As the Georgia Republican continues to face an onslaught of news stories about the timing of his stocks trades amid a high profile runoff, super PACs run by allies of Minority Leader Chuck Schumer are flooding the airwaves in the state. The Georgia Way and Georgia Honor — two newly formed super PACs affiliated with Senate Majority PAC — have spent more than $10 million so far since Nov. 3 on ads hammering Perdue and Sen. Kelly Loeffler (R-Ga.) over their portfolios.

I tend to agree with this comment:

“There’s no such thing as a persuadable voter,” said one Georgia Republican, who requested anonymity to speak candidly on the issue. “The Dems all believe [Perdue] had inside information. The Republicans, even if they believe that, don’t give a s---. I just think it doesn’t do anything. I don’t think it moves the needle.”

Republicans, meanwhile, are betting that voters will keep a broader goal in mind: GOP control of the Senate.

"The issue is probably going to be the majority," said Senate Majority Whip John Thune (R-S.D.). "That’s what people are voting on.”