POTUS/General Election Thread 2020 + Aftermath

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I am hopeful that the moderate bloc of the Senate -- those folks not rabidly Trump or hyper-progressives -- can get some legislation through, at least on practical concerns like infrastructure and the like.

You know, infrastructure, like The Donald claimed was a key focus but for which he actually achieved little aside from exec orders favoring fossil fuels.

[Hooahguy]

Trump traitors have stormed the Capitol complex after overwhelming Capitol Police. Guns Drawn in the House Chamber. At least one shot. The Pentagon denied DC's request for National Guard support. This is a coup. I am sick to my stomach.

[Pannonian]

What's this about Trump supporters storming the Capitol and causing business to be suspended?

[Hooahguy]

Where to even begin. Trump encouraged his supporters to take action earlier this morning. And a couple hours ago they started storming the Capitol complex, overwhelming Capitol Police. Its a huge area so its unreasonable that everything can be locked down completely. I wonder if there will be more support now to impeach again this week. He certainly deserves a second impeachment.

If it was BLM doing this they would have been shot at ages ago.

[Xantan]

Shocking, shocking scenes. Incredible.

They broke into the Capitol, the House floor, the offices of the Congressmen and Congresswomen. I'm surprised the Capitol police was nowhere to be seen.

[Montmorency]

viva la reaccion

[Hooahguy]

Shocking, shocking scenes. Incredible.

They broke into the Capitol, the House floor, the offices of the Congressmen and Congresswomen. I'm surprised the Capitol police was nowhere to be seen.

As I mentioned earlier, the Capitol Complex is massive, and was never designed to be locked down like this so once they got inside it would be very hard to stop them. There are fewer than 2,500 Capitol Police officers so there never would have been enough manpower for every potential entry point. But the real question is why werent there more officers from other agencies on-scene to prevent this in the first place and why they handled them with kid gloves. I think we know the answer to that unfortunately.
Also Biden flatly called this insurrection (@1:02). Didn't mince words, good.

[ReluctantSamurai]

But the real question is why werent there more officers from other agencies on-scene to prevent this in the first place and why they handled them with kid gloves. I think we know the answer to that unfortunately.

Spot on!

First, I don't know why anyone is surprised. CoviDon has been calling for this for quite some time. Social media was chock full of information that would have predicted this.

Secondly, as Hooahguy pointed out, why wasn't the Capital Complex cordoned off for at least several blocks, even if that required National Guard presence? Irresponsible on the part of law enforcement. And we all know if this had been blacks and other people of color, they'd be taking body bags out of the Capital.

[Pannonian]

Spot on!

First, I don't know why anyone is surprised. CoviDon has been calling for this for quite some time. Social media was chock full of information that would have predicted this.

Secondly, as Hooahguy pointed out, why wasn't the Capital Complex cordoned off for at least several blocks, even if that required National Guard presence? Irresponsible on the part of law enforcement. And we all know if this had been blacks and other people of color, they'd be taking body bags out of the Capital.

Who controls the local National Guard?

[Hooahguy]

They also found a pipe bomb near the Capitol, which they managed to safely remove.

Ok I am going to go more in-depth into the layout of the Capitol complex from the point of view of someone who used to work there. In case anyone didn't truly understand how massive of a job it is to secure it:



Lets start with the Capitol building itself: Huge building, about a dozen entry points around the building itself with a number of staff doors that are hidden from public view. I haven't seen all the staff doors but I believe they are solid, as are some of the "main" doors, which are ornate. but most of the doors have glass in them. You might have seen video of the terrorists smashing down the windows in these doors to gain access. That is the type of door for 90% of the outside-facing doors in the Capitol Complex. My prediction is that this will change in the near future and the glass will be removed to prevent this from happening again.

Now there are six surrounding buildings, three for Senate offices and three for House offices (technically there's 5 for the House but two of them are further away and they don't count lol). The number of entry points vary from building to building as some are larger than others, but I'd say there's a minimum of 4 doors for each building plus a few access doors that are not as well known. Some of the larger buildings have 6 or 8. Not all doors are usually open for the public (usually only about 2-3 are open for non-staff), but as we saw today, they aren't the most secure and can be breached by a determined attacker. Then there are also ground floor windows that are not the most secure due to not having bars or anything on them, just normal glass. So its a nightmare when it comes to trying to keep determined attackers out. Once they are inside, good luck trying to contain anyone as the number of winding hallways and staircases would make a medieval knight proud, especially in the Capitol itself. I can't tell you how often I've taken a wrong turn trying to navigate the Capitol and gotten lost.

Now the offices themselves are fairly secure. Almost all have solid wood doors that are rather heavy and seem like they would be resistant to attempts to bash them down. But it also seems that the situation deteriorated so quickly that there wasnt time to properly secure all the offices, hence why some managed to get into places like Pelosi's office. There's also a super complex system of tunnels running from every building, which was useful today as it allowed staffers to escape compromised buildings quickly and safely to other buildings without being subject to the mob. I should also mention that there are no "airlock-type" doors for security to fall back to and lock besides individual offices. And the few doors there are in between corridors are the kind you might find in a house, aka kinda flimsy. Once you are in, you are in.

So taking this as a whole, its a really daunting security challenge and one that Capitol Police was painfully unprepared for. If I was the chief I'd be submitting my resignation the minute this was over.


Meanwhile, a number of Representatives are endorsing immediate impeachment, including the Assistant Speaker. And many calls for the 25th Amendment to remove Trump.

[Montmorency]

@Montmorency

My apologies. You have been correct all along and I have been wrong.

It doesn't please me to hear it...

All I've strove to do is challenge my own preconceptions about the country and the nature of the Republican party, which has led to harsh but lucid, if not prescient, places.

All I can recommend to you is, maybe it pays to seek out the commentators who have been right on this for decades, and who have consistently called the balls during the Trump era. Why did they get it right when most others got it wrong, or were motivated to? Look to them before me.

Trump is not among the worst Presidents. He makes Buchannan look benign and Harding competent.

What decisively ratified Johnson in the consensus as WOAT (or at least worst as often as second-worst) was his wholesale pardoning of the Confederacy. Without that, despite the mortal injury he dealt to Reconstruction he might not be the worst.

How many times do I have to say that we're still living through the Cold War against the Confederacy of the Mind?

A scene out of a Harry Turtledove novel:

I am hopeful that the moderate bloc of the Senate -- those folks not rabidly Trump or hyper-progressives -- can get some legislation through, at least on practical concerns like infrastructure and the like.

I too have high hopes for Manchin and Sinema. But not that high. If you mean the Collins-Murkowski-Romney crew, well, alone they don't breach the filibuster, and as relatively self-interested as they are without the filibuster they have little incentive to work with Democrats (unless Collins thinks she can ride the maverick Maine electorate to Feinstein-tier tenure). In my view the likelihood of Dems having to go it alone in whatever it is available to them to do is similar to the likelihood of Manchin remaining a Democrat. Maybe one Republican joins Dems on pandemic relief via budget reconciliation in exchange for heavy larded pork, but never as a deciding vote in place of a Dem defector.

[Hooahguy]

Report that Congressional leaders are discussing the 25th Amendment. Wrong discussion, isnt the 25th a cabinet-level decision? They should be discussing impeachment.

But I am also incensed that the terrorists are being allowed to file out and not be arrested. Word on the street is that fewer than 15 have been arrested so far. This is a travesty.

[ReluctantSamurai]

Section 4 of the 25th Amendment:

Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President. Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.

If I read it correctly, to permanently remove Trump from office would require 21 days, and a 2/3 vote from both houses.

[Hooahguy]

I stand corrected re:only cabinet being able to invoke the 25th, but also I read it as within 21 days, not a required 21 days. So it could be tomorrow. Pipe dream though.

[Pannonian]

Section 4 of the 25th Amendment:



If I read it correctly, to permanently remove Trump from office would require 21 days, and a 2/3 vote from both houses.

It's 14 days until Biden is inaugurated. Pence would be acting president for that period.

[ReluctantSamurai]

it means that Pence ordered them deployed, and did not discuss with Trump.

That the DC National Guard was compelled to answer to the Vice President, rather than POTUS, speaks volumes....

I like Cori Bush, but this is a bridge too far:

https://www.kansascity.com/news/poli...248321025.html

I believe the Republican members of Congress who have incited this domestic terror attack through their attempts to overturn the election must face consequences. They have broken their sacred Oath of Office.

I will be introducing a resolution calling for their expulsion.

Not going to happen, and it's not going to help what's happening.

[Hooahguy]

Melania Trump's chief of staff just resigned and House Minority Leader McCarthy's staff is threatening to resign too. The bar is super low but at least theres a bar somewhere.