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Thread: POTUS/General Election Thread 2020

  1. #931
    Coffee farmer extraordinaire Member spmetla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Hard-nosed analysis always resounds the same dour intonation, in the observation that these petulant comparisons aren't meant to actually identify and contest concrete factual or ethical dimensions in either object of comparison. When fascists deflect to BLM in this or any context, what they are communicating is their internal representation of rage that 'these f****** uppity n****** and their race-cucked accomplices get to be seen and heard while our rightful assertion of ownership and control over this society is rebuffed.'

    Anyone who has ever spent much time with conservatives - and many patrons likely have more clocked than I do - shouldn't have illusions about what defines these mentalities by now.
    That's the unique thing in the Hawaii National Guard, the right wingers don't have a racial tone or even a very Christian one. They just see the 'libs' as the enemy and as others have said in here, they love Trump because he upsets the SJWs and Libs. As others here have noted, it's not about policy for them anymore, it's just their team versus their enemies. It's hilarious when I call Trump out on things how they expect me to then have to defend BLM and Antifa as if I were a partisan supporter of those. Being against Trump somehow makes me a Liberal to them, can't have opposition of too many shades, it's all one bad entity for them to save America from, even if it means destroying America.

    Think the Trumpers have learned this from 1984:
    And if all others accepted the lie which the Party imposed—if all records told the same tale—then the lie passed into history and became truth. ‘Who controls the past’ ran the Party slogan, ‘controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.
    Last edited by spmetla; 01-13-2021 at 00:33.

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  2. #932
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    A bit like the Corbynites on the left here in the UK. He managed to energise the base, but was toxic to everyone else, and now his personal following are determined to ruin the party he's with. Corbyn never got into power here though, and it's hard to imagine him being as bad as Trump has been, or his support as destructive. But in terms of their relationship with the party they were affiliated with, they're comparable.
    Thats a definitely interesting comparison, didnt make that connection but I definitely see it.

    Also if anyone wants some reading tonight, the House Judiciary Dems put together a 50 page report supporting the impeachment. PDF link
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  3. #933
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spmetla View Post
    That's the unique thing in the Hawaii National Guard, the right wingers don't have a racial tone or even a very Christian one. They just see the 'libs' as the enemy and as others have said in here, they love Trump because he upsets the SJWs and Libs. As others here have noted, it's not about policy for them anymore, it's just their team versus their enemies. It's hilarious when I call Trump out on things how they expect me to then have to defend BLM and Antifa as if I were a partisan supporter of those. Being against Trump somehow makes me a Liberal to them, can't have opposition of too many shades, it's all one bad entity for them to save America from, even if it means destroying America.

    Think the Trumpers have learned this from 1984:
    Orwell is the most prescient political writer I've ever read. My interest in him is a bit more focused on his British-left-centred writings though, although there may be lessons to be learned there too for Americans. One such lesson is to never disappear up your own backside. Don't converse in language that is only accessible to your base. Spread the appeal with widely appealing language. There were some complaints from Democratic congress members after the elections in a similar vein, that every time outside campaigners appeared to help, they lost a few more votes.

  4. #934
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    The joint chiefs of staff have turned against the sitting president. Has this happened before?

  5. #935
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    I wouldn't characterize it as "going against the president" rather that they affirmed that they aren't going to do a coup like some Trumpists wanted (though of course they will just say "oh its a diversion!!!").
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  6. #936
    Coffee farmer extraordinaire Member spmetla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    They haven't turned against the sitting President, they are merely reminding the rank and file that their oath is to the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic. They are condemning violence, upholding rule of law and making clear that they recognize the results of the election with Biden as the 46th POTUS.

    The only thing unique about any of the above is that it needs to be said at all.

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/12/polit...ion/index.html

    This situation is the only reason I've been somewhat okay with Trump being incompetent at knowing how to utilize the government. Were he capable of using the tools of government he could have exploited COVID-19 to gain power, utilized his following to create an organized paramilitary wing like the SA or SS, sent them in the streets as patriots against the Floyd protestors and then used the overall unrest to declare a national emergency and seize more power.
    His incompetency in managing the bureaucracy and intellectual laziness is the only reason he's failed to keep himself in office. Last week he attempted to create his 'Reichstag Fire' moment without any of the ground work laid beyond establishing a cult of personality following.

    Like I've lamented before, the institutions have barely held their own but legislative power has failed to be a check on the power of the executive. Biden MUST in his term have Congress draft legislation to curb his own power, perhaps even a constitutional amendment.

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    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    McConnell leaning towards convicting Trump. Never thought I'd see that headline.

    I honestly think that Jan 6th is going to go down in history as a single monumental event akin to 9/11. Not as horrible as 9/11, but similar in the sense that it provokes huge changes across the board which I think we are starting to see now. I mean it seems like we are finally getting some pushback from within about the Qanon quacks. I will hold my breath though.
    Last edited by Hooahguy; 01-13-2021 at 05:17.
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  8. #938

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    From the Joint Chiefs' statement:

    As Service Members, we must embody the values and ideals of the Nation. We support and defend the Constitution. Any act to disrupt the Constitutional process is not only against our traditions, values and oath; it is against the law. On Jan. 20, in accordance with the Constitution, confirmed by the states and courts and certified by Congress, President-elect Joe Biden will be inaugurated and will become our 46th Commander in Chief.
    Quote Originally Posted by spmetla View Post
    That's the unique thing in the Hawaii National Guard, the right wingers don't have a racial tone or even a very Christian one. They just see the 'libs' as the enemy and as others have said in here, they love Trump because he upsets the SJWs and Libs. As others here have noted, it's not about policy for them anymore, it's just their team versus their enemies. It's hilarious when I call Trump out on things how they expect me to then have to defend BLM and Antifa as if I were a partisan supporter of those. Being against Trump somehow makes me a Liberal to them, can't have opposition of too many shades, it's all one bad entity for them to save America from, even if it means destroying America.

    Think the Trumpers have learned this from 1984:
    Hawaii is an unusual state in the union, in some ways perhaps the future of the country. Is there an official report on the demographics of the Hawaii NG?

    More to the point, what value for "liberal" do these people assign? Does liberal mean "black" or "woman?" Not by definition, yet so often that's the way it's treated. Protest against police violence, for example, wouldn't at face value appear to be an intrinsically liberal or racial issue, so what the underlying representation is comes down to is whether the partisan tribalism is purely arbitrary or not. If anti-liberalism as affinity grouping, rather than ideological or psychological posture, were arbitrary, we would expect to see more random distribution of demographic attributes and political intuitions, which we don't (as though we were some Rawlsian ghosts picking out a sports team for the incarnation to support, or RPG players rolling classes in character creation). If, on the other hand, there were an animus toward or resentment against disfavored groups as such, where conservatism reduces to 'I am rightfully high-status, so I win; you are rightfully low-status, so you lose,' then all the observed behaviors and attitudes fall into place...
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  9. #939
    Coffee farmer extraordinaire Member spmetla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    I don't think there is a specific report on the Hawaii NG demographics. From personal experience the enlisted are primarily Asian with a fair number of Pacific Islanders and Caucasians. The Officers are about 2/3s Asians and the balance is mostly Caucasian with some Pacific Islanders.

    When deployed other units usually don't think I'm in the Hawaii guard because I'm white and have a Northern-midwest accent. About a month into my Egyptian deployment as part of the MFO there was another US NCO I was working with in the higher HQ and he was brutally ragging on guardsmen in general and the Hawaii guard specifically, after about a minute of this I had to interject and tell him I'm Hawaii guard and don't appreciate his comments! Just one example of many assumptions I'm not from Hawaii due to my race, accent, and mannerisms over 19 years in the Hawaii NG.

    As for the discussion on why they are anti-liberal I'd say it anger toward general social changes. The topics of gender fluidity and such are definitely opposed, especially when they see what's perceived as social engineering agendas to change the demographics of the military to be more inclusive (talking gender, trans-gender inclusion not race). The military also has a lot of gun lovers in general which means most are gun owners and very strong 2nd amendment types so they see the left as trying to curtail that.

    I think liberal to a lot of conservatives means any of the following topics: trans-gender/gender fluidity acceptance, anti-2nd amendment, teaching history of US as guilt with emphasis on white-male-christian guilt, reparations and social engineering to correct said guilt, socialism/communism despite no real understanding of what that is, and anti-christian somehow. That's including single issue people like the 'pro-life' crowd. In general I'd call the conservative movement of today more of a social-reactionary movement as it's really just opposition to times changing faster than they can accept them. Change for many people is difficult to accept and fear of change is definitely easy to exploit.

    Trump was able to exploit that fear of change very effectively, as many politicians have done in the past, and as many in the future will continue to do. That's why these brainwashed extremists in the Trump camp think their violence is okay, they seem to think they are saving American from a future in which its communist/socialist, ruled by china, with 'forced' demographic reparations to wipe out their race/religion/worldview. All this is looney stuff but seeing how my own mom who hated Trump with a fervor a year ago is now on board with the Trumpers because they are anti-vaccine (anti-science/reality more like) and anti-chipping and all the other crazy stuff that comprises this vague yet dangerous reactionary movement and its flirtation/acceptance of straight up racists and fascists.
    Last edited by spmetla; 01-13-2021 at 08:17.

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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by spmetla View Post
    I don't think there is a specific report on the Hawaii NG demographics. From personal experience the enlisted are primarily Asian with a fair number of Pacific Islanders and Caucasians. The Officers are about 2/3s Asians and the balance is mostly Caucasian with some Pacific Islanders.
    https://www.workforce.com/news/6-rea...-say-caucasian
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  11. #941
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Something to consider: definitely seems like McConnell and co. moved towards impeachment when all the corporate donors started pulling out from Republicans. Money talks.

    Edit: also worthy to point out that Rep. Jason Crow (D-CO-6) claimed that a number of his GOP colleagues told him that they want to vote for impeachment but fear for their lives if they do so. The GOP is fundamentally broken.
    Last edited by Hooahguy; 01-13-2021 at 19:38.
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    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    The House has voted to impeach Trump again, making Trump the only president to be impeached twice. It was a unanimous vote on the Dem side, with ten Republicans voting to impeach. With 232 votes, its the most votes to impeach in modern US history. However, McConnell has stated he will not move on impeachment until after Biden has taken office. I believe one can still convict a president when out of office, but I think it might end up at SCOTUS. We will see. Now we just need to make it through the next 7 days. Pretty cold-blooded by McConnell, its a win-win for him to do this as it punts the issue of impeachment to the Dems, mucks up Biden's first few weeks, and if Trump is convicted, it removes Trump from running again.
    Last edited by Hooahguy; 01-13-2021 at 23:09.
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    Coffee farmer extraordinaire Member spmetla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    At the very least he's now not able to pardon people involved in the insurrection attempt which will leave members of his circle vulnerable even with the most generous blanket pardons.

    "Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?"
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    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Yes that is definitely a plus. I was worried that as his last action he would give a blanket pardon to everyone involved and now he can't do that. Especially since most of the charges being leveraged are federal.
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    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spmetla View Post
    At the very least he's now not able to pardon people involved in the insurrection attempt which will leave members of his circle vulnerable even with the most generous blanket pardons.
    Why not?

  16. #946
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    Why not?
    In article 2 section 2 of the Constitution, right after it says the president has the ability to pardon it says "except in cases of impeachment." Which most seem to interpret as that the president is unable to pardon from when the House passes the articles of impeachment until the Senate votes. Some also interpret it as him being unable to pardon with regards to the scope of the impeachment, so no pardons for anyone's role in last week's riot.

    Also if you havent seen the pictures of national guardsmen napping in the Capitol, its truly something to see. For all the time I have spent in that historic building I never for a second thought it would come to this. Incredibly depressing.
    Last edited by Hooahguy; 01-14-2021 at 00:02.
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  17. #947

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Article on what Democrats can accomplish through Congressional budget reconciliation with their 50 Senate votes.
    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...reconciliation

    Joe Biden’s agenda is vast and impossible to summarize in a single article, even when confined to what’s possible under budget reconciliation. But to pick out some of its most important aspects, Biden could:

    Approve $2,000 checks, state and local aid, and a boost to vaccine funding
    Create a $3,000-per-year child allowance for parents
    Make housing a human right funded through federal vouchers
    Guarantee paid maternal/sick leave
    Achieve universal pre-K for all 3- and 4-year-olds, and massively expand child care access
    Spend $2 trillion investing in clean energy and climate R&D
    Forgive the first $10,000 in student loans for all debtors
    Make community college free for all
    Reduce Medicare eligibility to age 60 and perhaps create a public option open for all
    Raise taxes on the rich by $4 trillion
    Effectively abolish the debt ceiling to prevent future GOP hostage-taking
    To understand why this is possible, and much of the rest of his agenda is likely not, you have to know a bit about the filibuster.
    I'm pretty sure reconciliation will not permit many of the regulatory changes implied here, and where stripped bare of regulatory complement to enable passage, some of these programs won't be as desirable. Particularly so in the areas of paid leave, childcare, and housing, to my mind. What made Warren's and Sanders' plans here worthier was, beside their greater generosity, their commitment to creating legal protections and raising industry standards. Also, just forgive more student debt, Congress isn't even implicated.



    Trump's polling, even among Republicans, is really sliding now, and while it's recovered every time before, I suspect there just won't be time enough for him. RCP and 538 both have him at 40% currently. How low can he go? Separately, I predict that by the end of the month, or maybe just prior to Biden's inauguration, polling on Direction of the Country will hit an all-time low (<15%).


    Internet comment:

    I can tell you that the FBI is taking all this seriously. One of my best childhood friends, Air Force Academy grad (not a religious loony, not a gun nut, not a Trumper) spent 10 or 12 years active duty and then has flown for United since, called me yesterday pretty shaken.

    He has six kids. About half are also in military. Youngest daughter is marine nurse married to a marine living in OK. The dumb son in law took part in some of right wing protests for 2nd Amendment months ago. The son-in-law also had some,as my friend described, associations with some less savory gun nuts in OK one of whom filmed himself discharging fully automatic weapon in a place where that is unlawful. Little more to it but that was the gist.

    Apparently, the son-in-law was pulled over Monday by police, and when they ran his plate, the FBI had issued some sort of warning with an acronym I can't recall, informing law enforcement to contact FBI immediately, but not to detain. Said son-in-law was immediately contacted by FBI to report for interview or be arrested, had to lawyer up and spent 6 hours yesterday being interrogated by the FBI.

    They released him, but I got the sense from what my friend described was the FBI are not fucking around and are turning over rocks and connections everywhere. Any known associates of anyone they've got their eyes on.

    That's somewhat reassuring.


    Quote Originally Posted by spmetla View Post
    I think liberal to a lot of conservatives means any of the following topics: trans-gender/gender fluidity acceptance, anti-2nd amendment, teaching history of US as guilt with emphasis on white-male-christian guilt, reparations and social engineering to correct said guilt, socialism/communism despite no real understanding of what that is, and anti-christian somehow. That's including single issue people like the 'pro-life' crowd. In general I'd call the conservative movement of today more of a social-reactionary movement as it's really just opposition to times changing faster than they can accept them. Change for many people is difficult to accept and fear of change is definitely easy to exploit.
    That's exactly it, when one asks "What do these people despite?" - or better yet, whom - there's an overwhelming pattern. We're talking not about people who hold a mix of liberal and moderate views, or even who are retrograde in a mild way, but who are uniformly enraged and disgusted by what is straightforwardly an increasing prominence of issues of people who don't share their demographics or affinities. It's not that they arbitrarily dislike talk of gender or oppression - many of them will go on about how masculine they are and lament the "assault" on masculinity. It's not that they inherently disagree with government safety regulations (although to be fair some segment do actually think this way), they may even support stringency when it comes to "those people" having guns; most of their reaction is against what they perceive as a hindrance, realized or not, on their personal affairs. It's not that they actually care about government tyranny, which they simply define as anything that offends their own sensibilities or doesn't support their tribe. It's not that they don't think anyone does wrong or has to change anything about them, as they'll be first to denigrate the supposedly-terroristic Muslim and ghetto Black for perceived collective flaws. It's not that they oppose any statist implication in cultural change, when they typically call for the government to prioritize and embody their own values. It's not that they think their religion is under threat, but that they identify a loss of what they see as an official Christian status of American society and government as ipso facto a threat.

    Intermission: Holy shit did you see what Josh Hawley said about this early Christian sage?

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    In multiple speeches, an interview and a widely shared article for Christianity Today, Mr. Hawley has explained that the blame for society’s ills traces all the way back to Pelagius — a British-born monk who lived 17 centuries ago. In a 2019 commencement address at The King’s College, a small conservative Christian college devoted to “a biblical worldview,” Mr. Hawley denounced Pelagius for teaching that human beings have the freedom to choose how they live their lives and that grace comes to those who do good things, as opposed to those who believe the right doctrines.

    The most eloquent summary of the Pelagian vision, Mr. Hawley went on to say, can be found in the Supreme Court’s 1992 opinion in Planned Parenthood v. Casey. Mr. Hawley specifically cited Justice Anthony Kennedy’s words reprovingly: “At the heart of liberty,” Kennedy wrote, “is the right to define one’s own concept of existence, of meaning, of the universe, and of the mystery of human life.”The fifth century church fathers were right to condemn this terrifying variety of heresy, Mr. Hawley argued: “Replacing it and repairing the harm it has caused is one of the challenges of our day.”

    In other words, Mr. Hawley’s idea of freedom is the freedom to conform to what he and his preferred religious authorities know to be right. Mr. Hawley is not shy about making the point explicit. In a 2017 speech to the American Renewal Project, he declared — paraphrasing the Dutch Reformed theologian and onetime prime minister Abraham Kuyper — “There is not one square inch of all creation over which Jesus Christ is not Lord.” Mr. Kuyper is perhaps best known for his claim that Christianity has sole legitimate authority over all aspects of human life.


    Reminder that up to a full half of the national Republican electorate is White Evangelical Christians, who incidentally have protruded their tentacles far into Latin America and Africa in recent years, converting tens of millions. What a blight, ever since they perverted their religion into an institutional defense of slavery and never reformed even after slavery did. They would never tolerate Catholics like Hawley in the ascendancy, despite the staggering overlap in their cherished doctrines.


    If one looks for strict linguistic meaning in the far-right usage of words and terms, one will always be confused by the seeming incoherence and irrelevance of their grievances. Only the realization that the nature of the grievance is to do with status, hierarchy, and taste-based affinity can comprehensively explain what is observed. In all the named elements what comes to the surface is an ironclad belief that they are the rightful Masters of the Universe, a club that not everyone can be a part of (to paraphrase George Carlin again). Not so much "they hate liberals" as "they know that they win, we lose, and they hate liberals for upsetting the balance of the Great Chain of Being."

    And sure, like any model this can't cover every single case. Maybe there are outright Communists out there voting straight ticket Republican because they're obsessed with the meme of "pro-life" anti-abortionism. Or more realistically someone like Ammon Bundy, a far-right militant who supports Trumpism in basically everything (despite his pretensions to fighting for liberty), yet nearly got cancelled in the far-right ecosystem for offering that maybe immigrants aren't vermin to be cleansed from the nation. But it's the decisive thread that characterizes almost everything of Reaction, in and beyond America.

    Case in point:

    A very talented friend of mine, who interned w/
    @GOPLeader
    , and at 20 was one of the highest ranked staffers in the Trump campaign, was just fired from his new job when client found out he worked for Trump. He now can’t afford rent. Still think cancel culture isn’t that serious?
    I wonder what this fellow thinks of unions and mandatory drug-testing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hooahguy View Post
    In article 2 section 2 of the Constitution, right after it says the president has the ability to pardon it says "except in cases of impeachment." Which most seem to interpret as that the president is unable to pardon from when the House passes the articles of impeachment until the Senate votes. Some also interpret it as him being unable to pardon with regards to the scope of the impeachment, so no pardons for anyone's role in last week's riot.

    Also if you havent seen the pictures of national guardsmen napping in the Capitol, its truly something to see. For all the time I have spent in that historic building I never for a second thought it would come to this. Incredibly depressing.
    Seems like a stretch; my intuition has always been that the clause renders a crime unpardonable if the President was herself impeached over it as a Congressionally-enumerated offense. Then again, push it to the SCOTUS for all I care, make them decide what to license in Trump's downfall. Or maybe he refuses to pardon anyone at all and it's moot.
    Last edited by Montmorency; 01-14-2021 at 01:34.
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    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Also if you havent seen the pictures of national guardsmen napping in the Capitol, its truly something to see. For all the time I have spent in that historic building I never for a second thought it would come to this. Incredibly depressing.
    There are now more troops deployed in Washington than Iraq & Afghanistan combined. War has come home to roost.
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    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Well this is very on-brand for Trump.
    The commander in chief has told aides not to pay Giuliani at all for his legal work attempting to overturn Trump’s loss in the November presidential election, according to The Washington Post.
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote of the day from Rashida Tlaib:

    Just had to go through a metal detector before entering the House floor. Some colleagues are frustrated (guess which ones) by this requirement. Now they know how HS students in my district feel. Suck it up buttercups. Y’all brought this on yourselves.
    https://www.vox.com/22226869/congres...etal-detectors
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    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post
    Quote of the day from Rashida Tlaib:

    Just had to go through a metal detector before entering the House floor. Some colleagues are frustrated (guess which ones) by this requirement. Now they know how HS students in my district feel. Suck it up buttercups. Y’all brought this on yourselves.
    https://www.vox.com/22226869/congres...etal-detectors
    Whats funny is that Pelosi instituted a new rule now that says if they refuse to go through the metal detector they will be fined $5,000 for the first offense and then $10,000 for every subsequent offense with the money being taken out of their paychecks. House members make $174,000 so if morons like Boebert keep it up they will be broke after about 17 trips.

    On a side note, the FBI created a sedition and conspiracy task force to bring the hammer down on the capitol rioters. Sedition itself is up to a 20 year prison sentence. Definitely will be following this.

    What do people here think about creating new anti-domestic terror laws to go after the white nationalists? Im torn because I remember reading an article about how the FBI has certain gaps in their enforcement abilities for domestic terror (I dont remember specifics), but on the other hand I'm pretty sure those would end up being used against peaceful protesters one day which is not desirable.
    So I lean towards no, with the hope that the Feds create a dedicated white nationalism task force to pursue these people using existing laws.
    Last edited by Hooahguy; 01-14-2021 at 05:34.
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    Default Re: Trump Thread



    Hey, if DC statehood gets us half the loaf...


    Re: soldiers in the Capitol. [There are too many iconic photos to link here, I urge you all too peruse the link.]
    https://twitter.com/igorbobic/status...86390291828744



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 






    1. I've never seen this type of thing outside World War-vintage photos: prison camps and transport ships. They have tents and futons in Afghanistan surely, why not in Washington DC?

    2. This was just 8-D chess to maneuver the country into Trump's herd immunity/coup strategy. Tomorrow, Pelosi is diagnosed with SARS-2, infected by House Republicans in the safe room. On January 28th she dies, the same day Joe Biden is announced to have contracted the disease as well, from one of the many troops defending his inauguration. On Valentine's Day Biden dies, as Trump's team knew he would following state-of-the-art genetic analysis performed on a hair obtained at the September debate. An hour later, Kamala Harris is assassinated by a loyalist SS, who surrenders immediately. While all this transpired, it was discovered that Dianne Feinstein had died of a fall, presumably attendant to the onset of senescence. The Republicans temporarily hold the majority in the Senate before a replacement for Feinstein arrives and quickly reinstate Chuck Grassley as President pro tempore. By the chain of presidential succession, Grassley is now President. He appoints Donald Trump as Vice President.

    This was all planned. Trump now assembles whatever acting Cabinet members have been made available and declares Grassley unfit for office. Grassley does not demur; this was a good time for the elder statesman to retire anyway. The killer SS operative graciously receives the first pardon of the second Trump term.

    Welcome to Keep America Great Again.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hooahguy View Post
    Well this is very on-brand for Trump.
    I thought he was working pro bono.

    Trump Financial Disclosure Values Rudy Giuliani’s Legal Services At… Zero
    Aug 3, 2020 at 4:13 PM


    Nevertheless, those sticklers at the Office of Government Ethics suggested that the hundreds of hours of legal services provided to the president gratis by America’s Looniest Mayor are worth something and must be declared as a gift on his financial disclosure. After all, Giuliani spent weeks gallivanting around Europe trying to prove that Joe Biden was corrupt. He pressured the Justice Department to open an investigation into allegations that Joe Biden stole $5.3 billion dollars from Ukraine, and he plastered the State Department with affidavits from Eastern European politicians who would testify to Biden’s perfidy if only they could get a visa to enter the United States. The president’s free lawyer was so successful that he managed to get his client impeached, which is no mean feat!

    And yet, according to Donald Trump’s latest financial disclosure, the value of Rudy’s services is priceless, and thus doesn’t have to be disclosed.

    Although we did not believe and do not believe that any pro bono publico counsel is reportable as a “gift,” at the request of OGE, we note that as has been widely reported in the media, Rudy Giuliani provided such pro bono publico counsel in 2018 and 2019. In any event, Mr. Giuliani is not able to estimate the value of that pro bono publico counsel; therefore, the value is unascertainable.
    What do people here think about creating new anti-domestic terror laws to go after the white nationalists?
    Do we even need them?
    Last edited by Montmorency; 01-14-2021 at 05:40.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post

    Hey, if DC statehood gets us half the loaf...
    Also important to point out that Puerto Rico is not necessarily a safe D seat. For example, the current non-voting representative (Jenniffer González) from PR to the House caucuses with the GOP. So it would be more politically advantageous for Dems to just pursue DC statehood and not PR statehood. Which of course is super hypocritical, but thats what the cold and calculating part of me would say.


    Re: soldiers in the Capitol. [There are too many iconic photos to link here, I urge you all too peruse the link.]
    https://twitter.com/igorbobic/status...86390291828744

    1. I've never seen this type of thing outside World War-vintage photos: prison camps and transport ships. They have tents and futons in Afghanistan surely, why not in Washington DC?
    I posted this earlier, but yeah its really something to see. As for why they arent on cots or proper bedding, I'm not really sure. In the twitter thread you posted one soldier said that a cot would scuff the floor but Im pretty sure that in the past the government got hotel rooms for the soldiers who came in to help with unrest. But with 20,000 soldiers coming in, I wonder if DC ran out of available hotel rooms lol.

    Should also be mentioned that the last time troops were quartered in the Capitol was during the Civil War.

    I thought he was working pro bono.
    I've heard various things too, I just think the sentiment is funny regardless if he was pro bono or not.

    Do we even need them?
    Well thats the question. Something I do think is needed though is stronger laws against the right-wing militias which have festered over the past decade and desperately need a check on them. Though one of my favorite unnamed internet personalities would take issue with calling them militias. If you havent read this relatively short article, I'd highly recommend it if you want to learn something about militias.
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    My understanding is that all the soldiers racked out are still on duty (I think they said 12 hour shifts) and they are floor-crashing during their breaks. Off-duty, they have lodgings off the grounds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooahguy View Post
    On a side note, the FBI created a sedition and conspiracy task force to bring the hammer down on the capitol rioters. Sedition itself is up to a 20 year prison sentence. Definitely will be following this.
    During the FBI press conference, one of the two (FBI or US attorney) speakers said the task force consisted of national security and public corruption personnel. The former is obvious, the latter more interesting. They will be going after the GOP pols that assisted or incited.
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    Coffee farmer extraordinaire Member spmetla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    "This area of the Capitol has been designated a rest area for National Guard members when they are on duty but between shifts," Maj. Renee Lee, a spokeswoman for the D.C. National Guard, tells U.S. News. "To be clear, this is not where they are lodging when off-duty."
    https://www.usnews.com/news/national...t-lodged-there

    Standing around in full kit outside can take a toll on anyone so having a rest area near by is important. This is all last minute and ad hoc so those large open areas likely make sense to be the best areas, a lot of the capitol will have sensitive areas where you wouldn't be able to have off duty Soldiers wandering around with rifles and cell phones so the large public access areas are likely the easiest from a sensitive info stand point. Not all Soldiers have Secret security clearance, very very few would have Top Secret.

    Should also be mentioned that the last time troops were quartered in the Capitol was during the Civil War.
    I was thinking that it's sadly appropriate to have troops back in the Capitol due to people with confederate sympathies.

    Also important to point out that Puerto Rico is not necessarily a safe D seat. For example, the current non-voting representative (Jenniffer González) from PR to the House caucuses with the GOP. So it would be more politically advantageous for Dems to just pursue DC statehood and not PR statehood. Which of course is super hypocritical, but thats what the cold and calculating part of me would say.
    Most latinos that I know are fairly conservative, they only seem to support Moderates and Democrats due to the underlying anti-immigrant anti-Hispanic polices of the GOP. If more of the GOP base accepted latinos and catholics they might start winning the popular vote again.

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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Something that's occurred to me since I've seen it suggested that impeachment will occupy parliamentary time that's needed for legislation. How much work does the Senate do in legislation? It was my understanding that it's mostly Congress that does the preparatory work. If so, then the impeachment process has gone over to the Senate, so Congress is now freed up for legislation, which is not affected by the continuing impeachment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    Something that's occurred to me since I've seen it suggested that impeachment will occupy parliamentary time that's needed for legislation. How much work does the Senate do in legislation? It was my understanding that it's mostly Congress that does the preparatory work. If so, then the impeachment process has gone over to the Senate, so Congress is now freed up for legislation, which is not affected by the continuing impeachment.
    So Congress is the broad term used for both the House and Senate. They both have equal say when it comes to legislation in the sense that if something passes one chamber, it must pass the other for it to be sent to the president to sign into law. Bills can be introduced either chamber as well. As it pertains to impeachment, nobody really knows how long it will take. Could be just a week, or even a month. I think it will be the first thing the Senate does starting on the 20th, but I did read that Biden is working with the Dems in the Senate to figure out how to do the trial as well as get to work on passing legislation at the same time so time isnt lost. Something else that needs to be done in the Senate is to confirm Biden's cabinet nominees which is really important too. So they got a lot on their plate starting on Jan. 20th.


    Edit: a peek behind the curtain from the police side of things during the riot. Its not the easiest article to read and I suspect more of such accounts will surface in the coming weeks.
    Someone in the crowd grabbed Fanone’s helmet, pulled him to the ground and dragged him on his stomach down a set of steps. At around the same time, police said, the crowd pulled a second officer down the stairs. Police said that chaotic and violent scene was captured in a video that would later spread widely on the Internet.

    Rioters swarmed, battering the officers with metal pipes peeled from scaffolding and a pole with an American flag attached, police said. Both were struck with stun guns. Fanone suffered a mild heart attack and drifted in and out of consciousness.

    All the while, the mob was chanting “U.S.A.” over and over and over again.
    Full article because I realize its behind a paywall:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Blinded by smoke and choking on gas and bear spray, stripped of his radio and badge, D.C. police officer Michael Fanone and his battered colleagues fought to push back rioters trying to force their way into an entrance to the U.S. Capitol.

    The officers had been at it for hours, unaware that others in the mob had already breached the building through different entrances. For them, the West Terrace doors — which open into a tunnel-like hallway allowing access to an area under the Rotunda — represented the last stand before the Capitol fell.

    “Dig in!” Fanone yelled, his voice cracking, as he and others were being struck with their own clubs and shields, ripped from their hands by rioters. “We got to get these doors shut.”

    An officer since 9/11, the 40-year-old Fanone, who has four daughters, had been working a crime-suppression detail in another part of the District on Jan. 6. He and his partner sped to the Capitol when dispatchers broadcast an urgent citywide emergency call.

    “They were overthrowing the Capitol, the seat of democracy, and I f---ing went,” Fanone said.

    The officers at the West Terrace eventually pushed people away from the doors. It was only then that Fanone saw the immense, volatile crowd stretched out in front of him and realized what police were up against.

    “We weren’t battling 50 or 60 rioters in this tunnel,” he said in the first public account from D.C. police officers who fought to protect the Capitol during last week’s siege. “We were battling 15,000 people. It looked like a medieval battle scene.”

    Someone in the crowd grabbed Fanone’s helmet, pulled him to the ground and dragged him on his stomach down a set of steps. At around the same time, police said, the crowd pulled a second officer down the stairs. Police said that chaotic and violent scene was captured in a video that would later spread widely on the Internet.

    Rioters swarmed, battering the officers with metal pipes peeled from scaffolding and a pole with an American flag attached, police said. Both were struck with stun guns. Fanone suffered a mild heart attack and drifted in and out of consciousness.

    All the while, the mob was chanting “U.S.A.” over and over and over again.

    “We got one! We got one!” Fanone said he heard rioters shout. “Kill him with his own gun!”

    D.C. police had been worried for weeks about trouble on Jan. 6, when Congress would meet to tally the electoral votes and formalize President-elect Joe Biden’s victory. Supporters of President Trump who believe his false claims that he was the real winner called for a mass demonstration, with Trump tweeting, “Be there, will be wild!”

    The 3,800-member D.C. police force, responsible for protecting city streets, not federal buildings, had all hands on deck that day and asked neighboring jurisdictions to line up help if needed. The mayor asked the D.C. National Guard to assist with traffic control, freeing officers for more-urgent duties.


    But no such preparations were being made at the Capitol building, a prime target on social media postings calling for an armed insurrection. The Capitol has its own 2,100-member police force controlled by Congress. Its police chief at the time, Steven Sund, who resigned in the riot’s aftermath, said that he began to worry Jan. 4 and that his requests to enlist the Guard were repeatedly thwarted until the Capitol was already overrun.

    Acting D.C. police chief Robert J. Contee III has said D.C. officers “saved democracy” by coming to the rescue of Capitol Police personnel overwhelmed by the crowd. Authorities said the attack resulted in the deaths of Capitol Police Officer Brian D. Sicknick, who had been confronting the mob, as well as four rioters, including a woman fatally shot by a Capitol officer.

    This account is based on interviews with Contee, in the top job just four days before the riot, along with members of his command staff and officers on the front lines.

    These police leaders talked of battles using metaphors typically reserved for wars, describing fighting on three fronts, including the West Terrace, one of the few places where police prevented rioters from breaking through. Had those rioters succeeded, authorities said, thousands more people could have poured into the Capitol, with possible catastrophic consequences.

    Nearly 60 D.C. police officers and an unknown number of Capitol officers were hurt in the siege, with injuries that included bruised and sprained limbs, concussions and irritated lungs. Sicknick, who police said physically engaged rioters, died the next day. Authorities said he was injured, but they did not elaborate.

    A time-lapsed security-camera video police played for The Washington Post shows the crowd building along First Street, near the Capitol Reflecting Pool, around 11:15 a.m. First, a couple hundred showed. Trump started his incendiary speech outside the White House shortly before noon.

    Inside the Capitol, the House convened at noon and the Senate at 12:30 p.m. in preparation for the joint session, with some Republican lawmakers preparing to contest the count.

    By then, thousands of Trump supporters were starting to stream toward the Capitol. The demonstrators were mostly White people, many wearing red Make America Great Again hats or other similar regalia, and some carrying Confederate battle flags.

    They began encircling an expanse of grass protected only by some makeshift metal fences and bicycle racks — and only a few Capitol Police officers.

    At 12:50 p.m., protesters jumped bike racks, the first of many breaches that day, and headed en masse toward the Capitol steps and the towering scaffolding prepared for the inaugural viewing stands and media tower.

    Capitol Police called D.C. police for help around 1 p.m., and the first officers quickly arrived, dressed in bright yellow jackets. Within 15 minutes, they streamed down the Capitol steps toward the surging crowd, led by Robert Glover, the D.C. police on-scene commander who this week was promoted to the rank of commander.

    He declared a riot at 1:50 p.m.

    By then, congressional staffers were being told to rush to secure locations. Suspected pipe bombs had been found outside the grounds.

    Glover, a 26-year veteran who headed the force’s Special Events Branch, overseeing security for presidential inaugurations and large-scale demonstrations, met with a Capitol Police supervisor to coordinate a response. Glover sent in two civil-disturbance units and kept a third on standby.

    The front of the Capitol is divided into terraces linked by stairs, and Glover first positioned officers on the middle terrace. Cmdr. Ramey Kyle of the D.C. police was directing officers on a lower terrace. Capitol Police turned their focus inside the building, confronting protesters who had gotten inside and securing members of Congress and Vice President Pence, there in a ceremonial role overseeing the proceedings.

    Rioters who had scaled the scaffolding were on an upper terrace pelting officers with debris from above. Others were hitting them from below, armed with metal poles ripped from scaffolding, wooden 2-by-4 boards, bats, sledgehammers, table legs and 50-pound fire extinguishers. The mob erected a barricade from the debris, using bleacher and scaffolding parts to block officers from moving along the upper terrace.

    Police had exhausted their chemical munitions, which Glover said had done little to slow the attackers, and rioters inside maneuvered through the many passageways, only to suddenly appear in the middle of police lines, causing further havoc.

    “As we’re pushing, literally foot by foot, we were taking law enforcement injuries, serious in nature,” Glover said.

    Glover ordered officers to take back the inauguration bleachers first, the “high ground,” to stop attacks from above.

    Help soon arrived. Police from Virginia — from Arlington and Fairfax counties, along with state troopers — and from Maryland, from Montgomery and Prince George’s counties, replaced hurt and tired D.C. officers on the front lines.

    Pushing people down from the Capitol proved difficult. “We were literally taking 15 to 20 minutes to get each stair back,” Glover said.

    Looking over the chaotic scene in front of him from the Capitol steps, Glover grew concerned as the battle raged. There were people caught up in the moment, he said, doing things they would not ordinarily do. But many appeared to be on a mission, and they launched what he and the police chief described as a coordinated assault.

    “Everything they did was in a military fashion,” Glover said, saying he witnessed rioters apparently using hand signs and waving flags to signal positions, and using what he described as “military formations.” They took high positions and talked over wireless communications.

    Authorities would later learn that some former members of the military and off-duty police officers from across the country were in the pro-Trump crowd. Glover called it disturbing that off-duty police “would knowingly and intentionally come to the United States Capitol and engage in this riotous and criminal behavior against their brothers and sisters in uniform, who are upholding their oaths of office.”

    In all the commotion, Glover lost sight of Kyle.

    Kyle has the rank of commander and works in the criminal investigation division, two things that on most occasions keep him out of immediate danger. He went to the Capitol to help process mass arrests and found himself battling.

    At Glover’s direction, Kyle went to an area where the crowd at first did not seem overly hostile. That quickly changed. “I was fairly certain we were going to be overrun,” Kyle said. “I scouted out an area we could fall back to another fighting position.”

    He ended up retreating through West Terrace doors.

    It had been a public entryway before it was closed several years ago for security. The ground-floor entrance leads into a tunnel-shaped hallway that ends at a T-section. To the left are private offices for lawmakers. To the right is the basement on the House side.

    Kyle got the officers inside and closed the doors. He thought they were safe, that the Capitol doors and windows were fortified to withstand blows and bullets. He found out quickly they were not. Thirty seconds later, people outside had already bashed them open and were headed inside. Officers raced forward to confront the mob in the vestibule.

    The violent standoff would last hours.

    Officers lined up six deep and five abreast. “We all just made a decision,” Kyle said. “We weren’t going to let these individuals in the building. No matter what.”

    Rioters employed bear spray and other chemical irritants that blinded officers and threw smoke grenades that turned the tunnel pitch black. “If you didn’t have a gas mask,” Kyle said — and many officers didn’t — “it was almost impossible to breathe.”

    The number of officers changed by the minute — anywhere between 30 and 60 — depending on injuries and how long it took to step aside, recover from the gas that seared their lungs, and get back into battle.

    “We all believed we were fighting for our lives,” Kyle said. “We believed at the time that we were the only door in jeopardy of being breached.”

    Rioters took shields and batons and used them against the officers. One person threw a ladder. Kyle wondered whether police could keep holding the door.

    As rioters yelled “Heave ho” for one big push, he grabbed injured officers and told them: “I know you’re in pain. I know you’re fatigued. But you have to get up and get back in the fight.”

    D.C. officer Daniel Hodges, assigned to a civil-disturbance unit, entered the Capitol grounds with the riot well underway. He was quickly separated from colleagues, and someone in the mob grabbed his radio.

    The 32-year-old waded through the hostile crowd, only to be knocked down. Someone tried to gouge his eyes and others piled on top of him before a fellow officer wrested him free. He reached the Capitol and got inside. With no assignment and no way to find his supervisor, he went “looking for work.”

    He found it at the West Terrace doors.

    He had a gas mask and put it on, then worked his way to the front of the police line. He tried to hold the rioters back “as best I could,” he said.

    Shortly after 3 p.m., Hodges got caught between the interior glass doors, sandwiched by rioters pushing forward and by police behind him pushing the other way. His arms were trapped, then his head, on the rioter’s side.

    “I really couldn’t defend myself at that point,” he said.

    A rioter grabbed his gas mask from the bottom and shoved upward, tearing it off his helmet. Another took his baton “and started beating me in the head with it.” He took face-fulls of bear spray with no way to shield himself, and a video captured his agonizing groans and twisted face as the assault continued before he was finally freed and pulled back.

    “The zealotry of these people is absolutely unreal,” said Hodges, who suffered from a severe headache but otherwise emerged unhurt. “There were points where I thought it was possible I could either die or become seriously disfigured.”

    Still, Hodges said, he did not want to turn to his gun.

    “I didn’t want to be the guy who starts shooting, because I knew they had guns — we had been seizing guns all day,” he said. “And the only reason I could think of that they weren’t shooting us was they were waiting for us to shoot first. And if it became a firefight between a couple hundred officers and a couple thousand demonstrators, we would have lost.”

    Fanone and his partner, Jimmy Albright, entered the Capitol through a door on the east side and rushed through the building. They ended up at the West Terrace, where they saw the backs of officers pressing against the mob.

    Another officer, dressed in a white uniform worn by upper-level supervisors, an eight-point hat and a trench coat, was doubled over in a hallway, hacking from the bear and pepper spray. Fanone recognized him as Kyle, whom he first met 20 years ago when both were on the Capitol Police force.

    Still coughing, Kyle stood and turned toward the officers holding the tunnel: “We got to hold this door.”

    Fanone made his way to the front of the line, relieving officers who by then could stay upright only by leaning on someone else.

    “It was body against body, just crushing, like a barbaric scene,” Fanone recalled.

    He yelled for officers who needed a break. “Nobody was volunteering,” Fanone said, adding that they all pointed at others and said, “This guy needs help.”

    Fanone and Albright had started their Wednesday tour as usual at 7:30 a.m. Assigned to a crime-suppression unit in the 1st District, which includes Capitol Hill, they usually patrol in plain clothes. But to increase visibility on a day fraught with tension, they had been ordered to wear their uniforms. Now they were in the thick of things.

    Injured officers were passed back through the line, one bleeding from the mouth and nose.

    As people in the mob dragged Fanone down the steps, he said he feared he would be stripped and dragged through the Capitol.

    “I was being beat from every angle,” he said. “I thought, maybe, I could appeal to somebody’s humanity.”

    With other officers swinging clubs, Albright pulled Fanone back inside.
    Last edited by Hooahguy; 01-15-2021 at 03:40.
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooahguy View Post
    Bills can be introduced either chamber as well.
    Point of order. Bills that raise new revenue can only be introduced in the House.
    In all these papers we see a love of honest work, an aversion to shams, a caution in the enunciation of conclusions, a distrust of rash generalizations and speculations based on uncertain premises. He was never anxious to add one more guess on doubtful matters in the hope of hitting the truth, or what might pass as such for a time, but was always ready to take infinite pains in the most careful testing of every theory. With these qualities was united a modesty which forbade the pushing of his own claims and desired no reputation except the unsought tribute of competent judges.

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    Default Re: POTUS/General Election Thread 2020

    This is a separate tangent but this thread is basically a catch all US politics thread.

    A direct message to Monty: Please vote for Yang as your mayor or I will hereby boycott your city and starve it of my tourism dollars. And believe me, I love buying dumb tourist stuff like snowglobes and mini-statues of famous buildings.

    A top priority will include building Bus Rapid Transit throughout the City. Every New Yorker in every neighborhood should expect affordable and fast transit. The 14th Street Busway is a great example of what we can accomplish. And within ten years, we will electrify our entire bus fleet.
    Last time I was in NY, I rode in a cab with a driver smoking a cigar with the windows rolled up and the fan in the backseat was broken. Never again. Roads should be for buses and bikes only.

    If you get Yang in the office, I promise within the year you will find me walking around Moynihan Station in a I love NYC t-shirt taking pictures of the pretty ceiling which I will never look at ever again.
    In all these papers we see a love of honest work, an aversion to shams, a caution in the enunciation of conclusions, a distrust of rash generalizations and speculations based on uncertain premises. He was never anxious to add one more guess on doubtful matters in the hope of hitting the truth, or what might pass as such for a time, but was always ready to take infinite pains in the most careful testing of every theory. With these qualities was united a modesty which forbade the pushing of his own claims and desired no reputation except the unsought tribute of competent judges.

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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by spmetla View Post
    As for the discussion on why they are anti-liberal I'd say it anger toward general social changes. The topics of gender fluidity and such are definitely opposed, especially when they see what's perceived as social engineering agendas to change the demographics of the military to be more inclusive (talking gender, trans-gender inclusion not race). The military also has a lot of gun lovers in general which means most are gun owners and very strong 2nd amendment types so they see the left as trying to curtail that.

    I think liberal to a lot of conservatives means any of the following topics: trans-gender/gender fluidity acceptance, anti-2nd amendment, teaching history of US as guilt with emphasis on white-male-christian guilt, reparations and social engineering to correct said guilt, socialism/communism despite no real understanding of what that is, and anti-christian somehow. That's including single issue people like the 'pro-life' crowd. In general I'd call the conservative movement of today more of a social-reactionary movement as it's really just opposition to times changing faster than they can accept them. Change for many people is difficult to accept and fear of change is definitely easy to exploit.
    Since 1877 unrest in the US has been almost entirely driven by race and primarily the efforts of southern conservatives to maintain white political hegemony.

    As I have said in here before, many Trump supporters are supporters not because of inherent evilness but because they are manipulated by a sophisticated machine that runs back to Reconstruction.
    But there is a core group that still holds onto a culture that Sherman and Grant couldn't stamp out. Once they were back in political power, they acted within to exclude for as long as possible and were pretty successful.

    Also as I have said before, the status quo is a house of cards as demographics since 1877 have turned majoritarian structures against them. The only way out as the minority is to remake American democracy as minoritarian, hence the Red State redistricting project, the self-sabotage of red state industry [1] that drives young and liberal minded people to congregate in a small number of states, off-year elections, voter suppression, blocking court nominations, poor education, etc.

    [1] It's not really all that surprising why Georgia just elected two Dem Senators when NC hasn't elected a single Dem statewide since Obama 2008. We should had been paying more attention when Georgia's cultivated a film industry in 2008 that surpassed California's in 2016. Ben Shapiro licking his lips seeing Big Tech move from CA to TX and FL, I'm not sure he understands that states are not liberal/conservative in and of themselves. When the Senior Programmer at Oracle gets on the plane to move from San Fran to Austin, Texas is shaping his opinions to the same degree that he will be shaping Texas politics.
    In all these papers we see a love of honest work, an aversion to shams, a caution in the enunciation of conclusions, a distrust of rash generalizations and speculations based on uncertain premises. He was never anxious to add one more guess on doubtful matters in the hope of hitting the truth, or what might pass as such for a time, but was always ready to take infinite pains in the most careful testing of every theory. With these qualities was united a modesty which forbade the pushing of his own claims and desired no reputation except the unsought tribute of competent judges.

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