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Thread: POTUS/General Election Thread 2020 + Aftermath

  1. #1081

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    In view of this I believe that my sojourn here has to come an end.
    Bye, Felicia.

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  2. #1082
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    I am at something of a loss that my post would have been the proverbial straw for him. I was contradicting him, but I thought to have done so with a degree of politeness and with some acknowledgement of this most recent point of his.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

  3. #1083
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    You said absolutely nothing wrong, and were far more polite than I have been these last few months to this individual. If one continues to receive negative feedback on interactive conversations, and simply ignores everything said, there's nothing else anyone can do....
    High Plains Drifter

  4. #1084

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Once again we return to the unshakable instinct that siccing the KKK on AAs and allies is equivalent to siccing the feds on the KKK and allies, an instinct incompatible with the equal moral worth of racialized persons. At least some other patrons who have frequented the Backroom never pretended to evenhandedness.

    More Southerners needed to die or be socially purged, is the fundamental here, though operationally it's more specific than that. If you have a problem with that, you functionally endorse one of the most brutal apartheid regimes in history. It's nothing more complicated, and your discomposure at a euphemistic expression of desiderata is just the sort of anti-substance that has become characteristic of your musings on American history and racial politics.

    Gilrandir's greatest flaw is his presumption that abstractions detached from facts are a productive basis for reasoning even when the tension of the two produces absurdity, depravity, or incoherence. His second-greatest flaw is his lack of respect for interlocutors such that informing him of fatal errors of logic or ethics cannot shake into reflection the sufficiency of his priors.

    I feel bad for ever having laid scunion on him; it doesn't look like he learned a thing from it to make the bile in the gorge worthwhile. Even so, it's disappointing to lose personality. I've always been prepared to take Gil seriously when he wasn't being real dumb.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooahguy
    We cannot let the public forget about 1/6, especially as the latest polling has Trump at 53% support for the 2024 primary and my gut says that he will run.
    Damn, hell of a thing if Trump retains that level of automatic support for the next 3 years even absent a social media or cable media presence. Being cut off from social media has clearly hurt him and his brand, but it might not even matter as to party politics in the final analysis. Or at least I don't know that it won't. Maybe the rest of the GOP being such non-entities happens to hinder any replacement (e.g. Hawley and Cruz as the biggest names) for Trump gaining more national prominence, allowing him to maintain the mental real estate of Republican base voters in absentia. We'll have to see how it plays out.


    Next big sociological study of the hard core of Trump supporters, composing the majority of the Republican Party base. Interviewed last December, then again in January.
    https://sites.uw.edu/magastudy/

    The Panel Study of the MAGA Movement (PSMM) is a survey designed to assess the attitudes and behavior of the people who consider themselves part of the “Make America Great Again” movement, popularized by the Trump campaign in 2016. Understanding them is paramount. For as the base to which former President Trump played (and plays), the MAGA movement ultimately motivated his challenges to American democracy. For example, exhorted by then-President Trump, many in the MAGA movement participated in the Capitol riot, an effort to stifle the peaceful transfer of power, a staple of democracy. As the principal source of perhaps the most divisive period in American history, we thought it wise to conduct a systematic, thorough investigation of the movement. As such, the PSMM permits us to distinguish between movement supporters and activists, among other things. Ultimately, ours is a study that gauges the opinions and behavior of MAGA supporters before and, more importantly, after the events of January 6, 2021. Collected in late December, data from Wave 1 of our survey interrogates respondents on a range of issues, including attitudes toward: BLM, protests in general, Covid-19 attitudes, beliefs about the 2020 election outcomes, political mobilization, racism, sexism, and nativism, among other things. We followed up Wave 1 roughly three weeks later, re-interviewing the same respondents, in the aftermath of the Capitol Riots. In Wave 2, we repeated many of the same items from Wav 1, as a means of assessing post-riot opinion change. However, we also included an extensive battery of questions on democracy, and attitudes toward the riot, as well as a few experiments, ones that manipulated alternative explanations of the riot. As the results make clear, the MAGA movement is a clear and present danger to American democracy. Details on data collection and sampling methods are provided here.

    We assembled this preview of our findings for the benefit of the public. As such, the findings presented here are relatively simple. We reserve more sophisticated analysis for the appropriate academic outlets. With the exception of our findings as they relate to the Capitol Riots, the results presented below belong to the first wave of data collection. For more detailed analysis please refer to the site menu. (By way of caveat, there is no way to know whether or not our survey is representative of the MAGA movement. It may very well be true that some number of MAGA types don’t trust academics, and declined to take the survey.) The demographic composition of the MAGA movement is overwhelmingly white, male, Christian, retired, and over 65 years of age. They’re attracted to the following groups, ones that include gun rights, charities, pro police, anti-lockdown, pro-life, and “stop the steal.” They’re extremely politically active, all in support of the Republican Party. However, only roughly 60 percent are solid Republicans, the rest either “lean” Republican or Independent. The MAGA movement overwhelmingly believes Trump’s election fraud claims, would have supported him for a “third term”(had it been an option), and don’t believe that voting should be made easier. They’re also of the opinion, to a large degree, that Covid-related restrictions should be eased, that Americans are overreacting to the pandemic, and that Trump told the truth about the threat to American public health posed by the pandemic. Further, responses to our survey suggests that MAGA is populated with a good number of racist, sexists, and nativists. Finally, on the Capitol Riots, the vast majority of MAGA supporters blame Antifa for the riots, not Trump (he bears almost no responsibility, according to them); only 3 percent of them think he should be impeached, versus the 97 percent who think he deserves a walk. These findings are but the tip of the proverbial iceberg. We have much more to share. For us, the implications are clear: our country is in grave danger since one of the two major parties is essentially captured by the MAGA movement. We invite you to draw your own conclusions from these preliminary findings. (Be advised that we will continue to update the site as we complete more analysis, especially on the second wave where we will document attitudes from before and after the riot.)
    Some highlights: Overwhelmingly white, mostly Christian, mostly men, at least half retired, at least half over 65 in age, but closer to forming a broad cross-section of society when it comes to income and education. Overwhelmingly Republican loyalists, which suggests the absence of Trump won't hurt the Republican Party as much as hoped. Typical attitudes on race, gender, and immigration. Antifa did January 6, undermining the patriots who were there that day to protest the Steal.

    Lots of conspiracism.

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    Anecdotally, here is the family of a Republican representative who voted to impeach Trump writing to disown him. Handwritten letter:

    A new profile on Congressman Adam Kinzinger, one of the few House Republicans who voted to impeach Donald Trump, reveals that several family members actually sent him a handwritten letter criticizing his condemnation of the former president’s actions that led to the riots at the Capitol.

    Kinzinger spoke to the New York Times about his efforts to get the GOP to move on from Trump, but the report also highlights how he’s received criticism not just from fellow Republicans but from family members.

    The letter reads in part, “Oh my, what a disappointment you are to us and to God!… You have embarrassed the Kinzinger family name!”

    The Times says this letter — which accuses him of joining the “devil’s army” — came from 11 members of his family.

    At one point the letter says, “You should be very proud that you have lost the respect of Lou Dobbs, Tucker Carlson, Sean Hannity, Laura Ingraham, Greg Kelly, etc., and most importantly in our book, Mark Levin and Rush Limbaugh and us!”
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


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  5. #1085
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    Next big sociological study of the hard core of Trump supporters, composing the majority of the Republican Party base. Interviewed last December, then again in January.
    https://sites.uw.edu/magastudy/



    Some highlights: Overwhelmingly white, mostly Christian, mostly men, at least half retired, at least half over 65 in age, but closer to forming a broad cross-section of society when it comes to income and education. Overwhelmingly Republican loyalists, which suggests the absence of Trump won't hurt the Republican Party as much as hoped. Typical attitudes on race, gender, and immigration. Antifa did January 6, undermining the patriots who were there that day to protest the Steal.

    Lots of conspiracism.
    You don't need the hard core of the Trump support. All you need is enough of the non-fanatics to get your candidates elected.

  6. #1086
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    You don't need the hard core of the Trump support. All you need is enough of the non-fanatics to get your candidates elected.
    If this were true, then why are GOP lawmakers scared stiff to do anything to piss them off?
    High Plains Drifter

  7. #1087
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post
    If this were true, then why are GOP lawmakers scared stiff to do anything to piss them off?
    Primaries.

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  8. #1088
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Primaries.... With about 30-35% of the GOP base being hard-core Ever Trumpers, explain why GOP lawmakers don't need them to get elected/reelected? The recent actions of current GOP members of Congress would suggest that they view that base as critical to their continued positions.
    High Plains Drifter

  9. #1089
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post
    Primaries.... With about 30-35% of the GOP base being hard-core Ever Trumpers, explain why GOP lawmakers don't need them to get elected/reelected? The recent actions of current GOP members of Congress would suggest that they view that base as critical to their continued positions.
    Democratic candidates don't need to appeal to hard core Trumpers to win their primaries.

  10. #1090
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Primaries tend to really only attract the committed voters of both parties. And the Trumpists undoubtedly make up the lion's share of the GOP primary voters now, hence why primary threats are nothing to scoff at.
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  11. #1091
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Democratic candidates [...]
    Ahh...I assumed you were talking about GOP candidates
    High Plains Drifter

  12. #1092
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    This would be laughable if it wasn't so incredibly ridiculous:

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...n-fraud-claims

    A key member of the legal team that sought to steal the 2020 election for Donald Trump is defending herself against a billion-dollar defamation lawsuit by arguing that “no reasonable person” could have mistaken her wild claims about election fraud last November as statements of fact.

    In a motion to dismiss a complaint by the large US and Canadian voting machine company Dominion, lawyers for Sidney Powell argued that elaborate conspiracies she laid out on television and radio last November while simultaneously suing to overturn election results in four states constituted legally protected first amendment speech.

    In her defense against the Dominion defamation lawsuit, Powell argued that whatever “reasonable persons” thought of her wild claims, Dominion had failed to demonstrate that she herself thought them to be false as she spoke them – a key distinction in defamation cases.
    The Kraken turns out to be nothing more than a common Squid, afterall....
    High Plains Drifter

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  13. #1093
    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    So tha means she surely should be immediately disbarred for filing suits she knew to be factually inaccurate - which itself is a criminal act.

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
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  14. #1094

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk View Post
    So tha means she surely should be immediately disbarred for filing suits she knew to be factually inaccurate - which itself is a criminal act.

    To be fair, my recollection is that the pro-Trump court filings were more prudent in their language and framing than the TV/social media statements of the proponents. Should still all be disbarred though, because repeatedly filing frivolous or vexatious claims to the courts is still fraudulent practice. That they consciously ratcheted down their intensity for pretextual reasons only makes it worse, as does the seditious overall objective of wrongly overturning the election.
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


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  15. #1095
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    House GOP members form America First caucus:

    Several House Republicans, led by Reps. Marjorie Taylor Greene (Ga.) and Paul Gosar (Ariz.), are forming a caucus that calls for a "common respect for uniquely Anglo-Saxon political traditions."

    A policy platform for the group, which calls itself the America First Caucus, declares that "a certain intellectual boldness is needed" in order to "follow in President Trump’s footsteps, and potentially step on some toes and sacrifice sacred cows for the good of the American nation."
    Yeah this screams white nationalism. God I hope the Dems hold onto the House in 2022 because the thought of these people having any power whatsoever makes my skin crawl.
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  16. #1096

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    "common respect for uniquely Anglo-Saxon political traditions."
    We all thought this shit died by the end of WW2 (which I mean in multiple senses).

    But after all, racism is a form of stupidity. (dude)




    See also:

    The Democrats are “the party of the incredibly wealthy coastal elites,” while Republicans are the party of “the great American middle.” The former fight for out-of-touch “urbanists” and “woke” corporations, while the latter stand with the forgotten men and women of rural America.

    If you’ve watched a Republican campaign ad or read a conservative pundit at any point in the last four years (and/or four decades), you’ve heard some iteration of this message. Anti-metropolitan populism is as ubiquitous in GOP rhetoric as salt is on French fries. In fact, Republicans are so unabashed in their rural chauvinism that they routinely argue that America’s political institutions should not give equal representation to people who live in cities. Just last year, Tom Cotton argued that Washington, D.C., does not deserve Senate representation because, while it may be more populous than Wyoming, “Wyoming is a well-rounded working-class state,” while D.C. is a city of “bureaucrats and other white-collar professionals.”

    All of which makes the current sticking point in negotiations between Democrats and Republicans on infrastructure a bit remarkable: While Joe Biden would like to finance new infrastructure by raising taxes on wealthy corporate shareholders (who disproportionately live in large coastal cities), moderate Republicans are demanding that he “pay for” new roads and bridges by raising taxes on Americans who drive a lot (who disproportionately live in rural areas).
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


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  17. #1097
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    'I never thought leopards would eat MY face,' sobs woman who voted for the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party.
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  18. #1098
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Interesting data out about the impact of peaceful vs non-peaceful BLM protests over the summer and how it negatively impacted Biden (and I assume Dems as a whole). Article is behind a paywall, but the twitter thread sums it up nicely. The results are predictable, as the average American likely doesnt take kindly to people rioting in their neighborhoods, nor are they very receptive to people saying that less policing is the answer after said riots. I do believe that MLK's quote about white moderates valuing peace over justice rings true, but said white moderates vote too, so Im not surprised.
    Last edited by Hooahguy; 05-20-2021 at 15:44.
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  19. #1099
    Member Member Crandar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    The Economist's paywall can be circumvented by using outline. Very useful site, although it doesn't work with every kind of paywall.

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