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Thread: Biden Thread

  1. #421

    Default Re: Biden Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    Here you go, from The Times.
    I mean the specific objects the UK hopes to align on. Like if California is one of the UK's top partners in trade and FDI, what does the UK wish to propose to California (ignoring concerns of facial legality)?
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  2. #422
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Biden Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    What does the UK government say they want to negotiate state-by-state? I doubt it would be constitutional to any meaningful extent though:



    I believe a foreign company can come and negotiate various arrangements with states or localities, such as tax abatements and other incentives, but if it's a government entity, not even that much may be permitted.

    Seems like a subject for the blogs and Twitter experts.
    indeed, i have one such linked below:

    the quoted tweets ae interesting in providing further detail to the main thread:

    https://twitter.com/AnnaJerzewska/st...33599789895695

    MOU's and trade promotion pehaps.
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  3. #423

    Default Re: Biden Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    indeed, i have one such linked below:

    the quoted tweets ae interesting in providing further detail to the main thread:

    https://twitter.com/AnnaJerzewska/st...33599789895695

    MOU's and trade promotion pehaps.
    An example of a US-UK Mutual Recognition Agreement (MRA) is the FDA-VMD Sectoral Annex for Pharmaceutical Good Manufacturing Practices.

    An example of a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) is the FTC-Information Commissioner-Privacy Commissioner (of Canada) MOU on Mutual Assistance in the Enforcement of Laws Protecting Personal Information in the Private Sector.

    Is there any information on what the UK government seeks to accomplish at the state level, and why? FYI I see that an MOU means something more forceful in the UK than it does in the US, which is more often tantamount to a statement of intent or aspiration.
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  4. #424
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Biden Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    An example of a US-UK Mutual Recognition Agreement (MRA) is the FDA-VMD Sectoral Annex for Pharmaceutical Good Manufacturing Practices.

    An example of a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) is the FTC-Information Commissioner-Privacy Commissioner (of Canada) MOU on Mutual Assistance in the Enforcement of Laws Protecting Personal Information in the Private Sector.

    Is there any information on what the UK government seeks to accomplish at the state level, and why? FYI I see that an MOU means something more forceful in the UK than it does in the US, which is more often tantamount to a statement of intent or aspiration.
    This question is easy enough to answer. Johnson is tainted by hypocrisy, so he needs to regain political capital. A reliable way of doing so is to continue having done Brexit, as that's the slogan he was elected on. Since Biden won't countenance a trade deal that compromises the Northern Ireland agreements, the Tory government wants to find a way of getting those Brexit headlines. The UK government has done a number of agreements that it's subsequently tried to go back on (and been caught on camera stating that they'd intended to go back on). As long as those agreements are initially made, they can get their headlines and their political capital. The details don't really matter (Johnson has admitted that he doesn't follow the details).

  5. #425

    Default Re: Biden Thread

    Some polling, albeit pre-war, around the Ukraine crisis and gas prices.





    Since the end of the year Biden's approval has been firmly in Trump territory. (Approval on Ukraine in particular in aggregate tracks with general approval, since voters tend to transfer their general impression to specific issues.) There's just too many voters who judge neither process nor results and prioritize indignation about rising prices, in particular gas prices, a subject which the vast majority understand nothing about. So we see a distillation down to core partisanship. Unfortunately, gas prices are going to rise no matter what else Biden does, even if he outright apologizes to Putin and works to reverse all sanctions. In the plausible scenarios of the West leaning on sanctions but not escalating further, price rises are likely going to prove persistent to some degree through the end of the year. If only there were a comprehensive investment package on offer that would put us on the path to energy independence and sustainability...

    Anyway, average gas prices in America will assuredly reach all-time highs sometime in 2022. This is, of course, a disastrous portent for Democrats in the November midterms and beyond, since in the nationalized political environment an individual politician of the president's party has their marginal approval rating determined by constituent attitudes toward the president.

    (Tangentially, it does lend some credence to pessimistic predictions that the West will quietly roll back almost all the new sanctions by the end of the year in order to make nice with a triumphant Russia for the sake of domestic economic recovery.)

    Dear Euros, you will lead very troubled lives if both Russia and America come under the grip of mystical fascist delusion. Throw in China and India TBD and it's a definite Game Over for the human experiment.
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  6. #426

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    A shocker for once. If Florida's new district map contains no surprises, and all currently-approved maps remain approved, then

    In a departure from a decades-long pattern in American politics, this year’s national congressional map is poised to be balanced between the two parties, with a nearly equal number of districts that are expected to lean Democratic and Republican for the first time in more than 50 years.

    Despite the persistence of partisan gerrymandering, between 216 and 219 congressional districts, out of the 435 nationwide, appear likely to tilt toward the Democrats, according to a New York Times analysis based on recent presidential election results. An identical 216 to 219 districts appear likely to tilt toward Republicans, if the maps enacted so far withstand legal challenges. To reach a majority, a party needs to secure 218 districts.
    The Republicans have indeed reached the limits of gerrymandering as of last cycle, and New York, New Jersey, and Illinois picked up the slack this time with countergerrymandering. As far as New York's map is concerned, it might even be unconstitutional but courts seem inclined to let that be remedied next year with primary elections just a few months away.

    To be clear, this isn't a "fair" set of maps outside a select set of states, it's just that Democrats acting more unfair than usual negated much (but not all) of the advantage Republicans gained by being unfair.

    If by the summer Joe Biden can put an American boot up Putin's ass while living to tell the tale, and secure a deal with Venezuela and the Gulf states to produce more oil, then Democrats have a shot at keeping the House majority. If the Democratic West gave up neutral redistricting,
    Last edited by Montmorency; 03-12-2022 at 02:13.
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  7. #427

    Default Re: Biden Thread

    I don't recall if I posted this, but for the one-year anniversary of its publication I'll quote from the essential distillation of all right-wing politics in America, fundamentally present down to the Founding.

    “Conservatism” is no Longer Enough

    Let’s be blunt. The United States has become two nations occupying the same country. When pressed, or in private, many would now agree. Fewer are willing to take the next step and accept that most people living in the United States today—certainly more than half—are not Americans in any meaningful sense of the term.

    I don’t just mean the millions of illegal immigrants. Obviously, those foreigners who have bypassed the regular process for entering our country, and probably will never assimilate to our language and culture, are—politically as well as legally—aliens. I’m really referring to the many native-born people—some of whose families have been here since the Mayflower—who may technically be citizens of the United States but are no longer (if they ever were) Americans. They do not believe in, live by, or even like the principles, traditions, and ideals that until recently defined America as a nation and as a people. It is not obvious what we should call these citizen-aliens, these non-American Americans; but they are something else.

    What about those who do consider themselves Americans? By and large, I am referring to the 75 million people who voted in the last election against the senile figurehead of a party that stands for mob violence, ruthless censorship, and racial grievances, not to mention bureaucratic despotism. Regardless of Trump’s obvious flaws, preferring his re-election was not a difficult choice for these voters. In fact—leaving aside the Republican never-Trumpers and some squeamish centrists—it was not a difficult choice for either side. Both Right and Left know where they stand today… and it is not together. Not anymore.
    Practically speaking, there is almost nothing left to conserve. What is actually required now is a recovery, or even a refounding, of America as it was long and originally understood but which now exists only in the hearts and minds of a minority of citizens.

    This recognition that the original America is more or less gone sets the Claremont Institute for the Study of Statesmanship and Political Philosophy apart from almost everyone else on the Right.
    Conservatism, Inc. is worse than useless in this regard because it does not understand through perpetual study what Trump grasped by instinct. As if coming upon a man convulsing from an obvious poison, Trump at least attempted in his own inelegant way to expel the toxin. By contrast, the conservative establishment, or much of it, has been unwilling to recognize that our body politic is dying from these noxious “norms.” Keep taking the poison! it advises. A cynic might suppose that many elements on the right have made their peace with (and found a way to profit from) the progressive project of narcotizing the American people and turning us into a nation of slaves.

    What is needed, of course, is a statesman who understands both the disease afflicting the nation, and the revolutionary medicine required for the cure. But no such figure has emerged, and it is unreasonable to pin our hopes on such a savior simply turning up.

    What, then, are Americans to do?
    In the meantime, give up on the idea that “conservatives” have anything useful to say. Accept the fact that what we need is a counter-revolution. Learn some useful skills, stay healthy, and get strong.
    For fascism, only one dessert. What else?

    I can't count how many pieces using this language I've read from the Right's 'intellectual' wing since 2016, growing in vehemence and urgency, but today it's more than ever necessary to frame this ratchet's context widely. It's the same ratchet that returned great power war to Europe, making a sham of that rickety so-called Long Peace, the necessity that drove Final Solutions in Rwanda, Myanmar, and many others. For "them", there is no choice but to act before it's too late. Ukraine took that penny's flight, its due course, to secure themselves; in America we still haven't used our time wisely. This struggle will never be won by force of arms unless we allow it to be.
    Last edited by Montmorency; 03-23-2022 at 21:27.
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  8. #428
    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Biden Thread

    I'm sure there are other countries, but I am always taken aback that people seem to think that the USA was perfected upon creation and nothing good ever happened since then and everyone should return to these mythical days. Most other countries accept that things have changed and perhaps for better or for worse but few want a wholesale return to the past. I think it starts with the USA teaching such a biased version of its own history which divorces people from reality.


    Mind you, if the outlook of the early settlers had a summary "xenophobic extremists" would be pretty close.

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
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  9. #429

    Default Re: Biden Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk View Post
    I think it starts with the USA teaching such a biased version of its own history which divorces people from reality.
    Almost all countries teach heavily biased national histories. It's a hard thing to overlook. The effects are just more salient when it comes to large and powerful countries, see: Russia.

    Mind you, if the outlook of the early settlers had a summary "xenophobic extremists" would be pretty close.
    Important detail: White Protestant xenophobic extremists.

    Select manifest top policy priorities of the Republican mainstream since 2020:

    Criminalize abortion
    Criminalize birth control
    Criminalize the upbringing of trans children
    Criminalize "racially uncomfortable" pedagogy
    Criminalize gay marriage

    Next: Revoke judicial protections on interracial marriage?

    Meanwhile, Vladimir Putin has promoted the full merging of Russian and American far-right propaganda by linking his accusation about Ukrainian evil biolabs with Q-Anon archvillain Hunter Biden. Here he is all but declaring the new Fascist International. Where else will he find allies but the Western fifth column?
    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1507333553448800309 [VIDEO]
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  10. #430
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Biden Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk View Post
    ... I am always taken aback that people seem to think that the USA was perfected upon creation and nothing good ever happened since then and everyone should return to these mythical days....
    Mythical indeed. Our founding covenant of governance was so incomplete that we drew up a new one less then 7 years after the revolution. And THAT one had to be immediately amended to garner enough support to pass. Please remember that I am a fan of harkening back when it comes to the Constitution.

    I also suspect that a fair number of our founders would thump the Trumpers upside the head with a stick for an utter lack of common sense in waddling after an obvious demagogue who is using them for his own power. Even Huey Long was more genuinely supportive of his followers.
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  11. #431

    Default Re: Biden Thread

    A leak from CBS recapitulates longstanding narratives about mainstream media bias in the US. CBS hired Mick Mulvaney, a Republican Congressional firebrand-cum-Trump White House Chief of Staff because they want "access" to Republicans, whom the CBS leadership are sure will win the midterms. Previously the former CEO of CBS, notorious sexual predator Les Moonves, was caught in 2016 advocating that his network promote Donald Trump in order to gain ratings.
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  12. #432

    Default Re: Biden Thread

    In a bitterly divided Congress, it was a rare measure that had been expected to sail through without a fight.

    A bill to name a federal courthouse in Tallahassee after Justice Joseph W. Hatchett, the first Black man to serve on the Florida Supreme Court — sponsored by the state’s two Republican senators and backed unanimously by its 27 House members — was set to pass the House last month and become law with broad bipartisan support.

    But in a last-minute flurry, Republicans abruptly pulled their backing with no explanation and ultimately killed the measure, leaving its fate unclear, many of its champions livid and some of its newfound opponents professing ignorance about what had happened.

    Asked what made him vote against a measure that he had co-sponsored, Representative Vern Buchanan, Republican of Florida, was brief and blunt: “I don’t know,” he said.

    The real answer is as much an allegory about the state of House Republicans in 2022 as it is about a federal building in Florida. With little notice and nothing more than a 23-year-old news clipping, a right-wing, first-term congressman mounted an 11th-hour effort on the House floor to persuade his colleagues that Judge Hatchett, a trailblazing judge who broke barriers as the first Black State Supreme Court justice south of the Mason-Dixon line, was undeserving of being honored.

    The objector was Representative Andrew Clyde of Georgia. Shortly before the House vote, he began circulating an Associated Press article from 1999 about an appeals court decision that Judge Hatchett wrote that year that struck down a public school policy allowing student-approved prayers at graduation ceremonies in Florida. The decision, which overruled a lower court, held that the policy violated constitutional protections of freedom of religion.

    “He voted against student-led school prayer in Duval County in 1999,” Mr. Clyde, a deacon at his Baptist church in Bogart, Ga., said in an interview. “I don’t agree with that. That’s it. I just let the Republicans know that information on the House floor. I have no idea if they knew that or not.”

    Since being sworn in last year, Mr. Clyde has drawn attention for comparing the deadly Capitol attack to a “normal tourist visit” and voting against a resolution to give the Congressional Gold Medal to police officers who responded that day. He also opposed the Emmett Till Anti-Lynching Act, which made lynching a federal hate crime and explicitly outlawed an act that was symbolic of the country’s history of racial violence. Mr. Clyde also voted against recognizing Juneteenth as a federal holiday.

    The naming of federal buildings is among the more mundane tasks that Congress undertakes, and it is usually a consensus matter. In the Senate, it is often accomplished without debate or even a recorded vote, which is how that chamber passed the measure to honor Judge Hatchett in December. In the House, it is typically considered under a fast-track process reserved for uncontroversial matters that limits debate and requires a two-thirds majority for passage.

    But Mr. Clyde’s late objection turned the routine ritual into a conservative litmus test for Republicans, who quickly joined him in turning against Judge Hatchett.

    The bill failed on a vote of 238 to 187, falling short of the two-thirds threshold, with 89 percent of Republicans opposed.
    Know-Nothing political correctness.
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  13. #433

    Default Re: Biden Thread

    https://twitter.com/MalloryMcMorrow/...53738403143681 [VIDEO]

    Hear hear.

    In response to the intense Republican campaign to vilify and criminalize the LGBTQ spectrum and allies as pedophiles. They may have to make up for long time, the Russian right was on this beat 15 years ago already.

    What can one do against such reckless hate?

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  14. #434

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    On Republican preparations to ban abortion nationally by 2025, with the status of contraception in question as well.

    Yet, I didn't even realize things had gotten to be this bad already (I mean before Texas). We're facing down prospectively the most extreme and repressive reproductive control regime in the world, much worse than anything we had in the past, imposed by the most radical tenth of the population.

    Conservative lawmakers who view abortion as homicide do not want it to be legal anywhere in America, and they are already trying to stop blue states, as well as the federal government, from facilitating it. Although the FDA has approved medication abortion, some states are seeking to outlaw abortion pills—deeming them a dangerous substance akin to narcotics and imposing yearslong prison sentences on anyone who distributes or possesses them. These drug-trafficking laws are bound to ensnare people who order the pills online, or transport them home from nearby blue states. The growing number of criminal charges against women who obtained an illegal medication abortion demonstrates that it is impossible to criminalize abortion pills without also criminalizing patients themselves. (There were nearly 1,300 criminal investigations of pregnancy outcomes between 2006 and 2020, when Roe was still on the books; that number will spike after it falls.)

    Today’s anti-abortion movement has even proposed new laws that prevent people from crossing state lines to terminate a pregnancy. Republicans in Missouri are considering such legislation right now. Under the statute, Missouri’s citizens could sue doctors who perform an abortion on a Missouri resident in a different state—like neighboring Illinois, whose clinics serve countless Missourians. Missouri’s citizens could also sue anyone who facilitated the abortion, including the friend or family member who transported the patient across state lines. Similarly, in 2019, Georgia Republicans passed a sweeping law that appeared to impose criminal penalties on patients who traveled out of state for an abortion. The courts have put that law on hold, but the state may commence enforcement after Roe is overturned.
    Here’s where the new goals of the anti-abortion movement matter most. If fetuses are legal “citizens,” then states could argue that they must be protected from out-of-state abortion providers. A red state might order a blue state to extradite an abortion provider (or patient) within its borders, dragging the judiciary into “complex, uncharted territory.” Or a red state could threaten to prosecute any provider who stepped inside its borders. Hill also pointed out that the Constitution also requires states to give “full faith and credit” to the judgments of other states’ courts. So if a Missouri court orders an Illinois doctor to pay damages for terminating a fetus from Missouri, the Illinois courts are, in theory, obligated to make him pay up.
    Fugitive Uterus Act indeed.


    EDIT: lolololololol the Republican SCOTUS already drafted the decision on abortion a while ago it seems (it's due at the end of spring), but someone has leaked it. Very hostile to all precedents on privacy rights (e.g. contraception, gay marriage, interracial marriage), not just abortion.
    https://www.politico.com/news/2022/0...inion-00029473
    Last edited by Montmorency; 05-03-2022 at 04:20.
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  15. #435
    Coffee farmer extraordinaire Member spmetla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Biden Thread

    Yeah, it is a pretty sad state to see the SCOTUS in to plan to do this. Make me wonder if we'll need to see Conception Certificates in addition to Birth Certificates and potential manslaughter investigations for every natural miscarriage in some of these states.

    Perhaps this will help Democrats get the vote out more, youths that are disillusioned by Biden should surely see the danger that current brand of Republicans are to basic human rights and get out and vote.

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    Stage four, we say maybe there was something we could have done, but it's too late now.

  16. #436
    Member Member Crandar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Biden Thread

    It may galvanise some potential supporters, but I don't think it will have a significant impact, as it will mostly affect the counties already voting for Democrats. That being said, if the protests are dynamic enough, the Supreme Court may chicken out and water down the final text. Out if curiousity, is it explicitly forbidden to leak the document? As far as I know, there's no similar precedent, but quite a few Republicans are pretty vocal about the nasty punishment they would to impose on the "mole".

  17. #437

    Default Re: Biden Thread

    Interesting note: this draft appears to have been prepared starting in January, around the same time that Justice Breyer, the oldest liberal justice, announced his retirement after a year of adamantly refusing to retire (he was finally replaced last month). I wonder if these developments are related.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crandar View Post
    It may galvanise some potential supporters, but I don't think it will have a significant impact, as it will mostly affect the counties already voting for Democrats. That being said, if the protests are dynamic enough, the Supreme Court may chicken out and water down the final text. Out if curiousity, is it explicitly forbidden to leak the document? As far as I know, there's no similar precedent, but quite a few Republicans are pretty vocal about the nasty punishment they would to impose on the "mole".
    This leak isn't unprecedented - one similar one was in the 1850s (not an auspicious timeline comparison!), and generally justices used to be much more loose-lipped about internal affairs - but in the modern age it is rare. It might be the most ostentatious leak in the court's history. From what I can tell this might be the first time an actual draft, as opposed to the decision or reasoning, has been leaked, but it's not like the contents of this document are particularly novel or notable for scintillating intellectual or rhetorical expression. In any case the outcome of this case was foreordained in most court reporting and analysis for the past year, since the specific case was first granted cert last summer, because Trump appointed the guaranteed 5th vote for overturning Roe v. Wade just prior to the 2020 election.
    https://twitter.com/jonathanwpeters/...09806430236672
    https://theconstitutionalist.org/202...century-style/


    You'd be surprised at how many conservative Evangelical and Catholic women - Republic, anti-abortion - get abortions. For example, by most exit polling of 2020, half of Catholics and 75% of Evangelicals voted Republican. In this older data,

    • Many abortion patients reported a religious affiliation—24% were Catholic, 17% were mainline Protestant, 13% were evangelical Protestant and 8% identified with some other religion. Thirty-eight percent of patients had no religious affiliation.
    You'll notice that it is not the case that 38% of Americans were irreligious or unaffiliated in 2014. All told, and considering that the CDC reported 630000 legal abortions alone in 2019, it's clear that even beyond all the anecdotal evidence there must be a large cohort of women who have had abortions in their lives who uphold anti-abortion politics. Such hypocrisies and/or coalitional compromises are probably common - just think of some of the patrons here - when it's hard to survey more than 20% national support for criminalizing abortion, going back decades.

    It's remarkable that countries like Ireland, Chile, Colombia, Argentina, and Mexico have all moved toward legalization of abortion in the past few years, but the US is following Poland's track and getting more and more restrictive. And the anti-abortion wing of American politics is proposing far more extreme and punitive policies than exist in Poland currently, though TBF decommunization almost completely killed legal abortion in Poland in practice long ago (one thousand legal abortion procedures per year or fewer for 30 years).

    Even the Taliban reportedly allow some abortions on the grounds of threat to the mother's life or household poverty.

    It remains completely unclear what sort of effect these disruptions will have on the American electorate. There are cases for both pessimism and optimism. But tens of millions did protest against police violence and impunity recently, with the 2017 and 2018 Women's Marches being two of the largest mass demonstrations in American history prior to those, and not much changed after all, so both optimistic and pessimistic accounts might hold truth.

    The SCOTUS majority itself will not choke on the home stretch. Roberts, the Chief Justice, likely already had before the leak, because he is an institutionalist who believes in doing this work slowly and quietly (he condemned Roe before being elevated to SCOTUS, supported all anti-abortion jurisprudence before Trump, and most after). But the rest are very vocal about their beliefs and know well what they were installed to do.
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  18. #438
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Biden Thread

    One of the more vexing issues.

    If you believe that life begins at conception then you are concerned with the right to life of the unborn. If you believe in individual choice and freedom to the greatest extent possible without harming others then you may opt to curtail a woman's right to determine all things for her own body SOLELY because of the rights of that unborn standing equal to those of the mother. Those who believe abortion should not happen tend to view the only exception as being those rare instances where only one of the two beings (again accepting the unborn as an equal being which many do not) could possibly survive. Our system of rights, including the right to life, was labeled as something that exists for each individual ab initio. When life begins is the crucial question in this position.

    Of course, a large percentage of those who would ban abortion would also ban contraception, pre-marital sex, non-monogamous and/or non-standard marriages, sexual education other than the reliance on abstinence; they would vehemently support the use of the death penalty for many violent crimes; and yet they would still vehemently assert their pro-freedom and pro-individual rights stance. These restricted thinkers would enact a series of restrictions that are impractical in many cases, immoral in some, often inherently self-contradictory, and arbitrarily restrictive of the rights they claim to be championing.

    The whole thing is depressing.
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  19. #439
    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Biden Thread

    The USA acts like an Imperialist Theocracy and the vast majority of the people living in it don't want it to be this way. Well, the Theocracy bit. It seems they're more laid back about the whole warfare abroad bit.

    But the country was founded in a manner that would allow a small number at the top to keep all the power, and hence it is running as designed with an increasingly large disenfranchised and pseudo-disenfranchised mass having close to no say in the process whatsoever. Not quite slaves per se, but a lot closer to indentured serfs than most Western countries have their populace.

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
    Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings.
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  20. #440
    Coffee farmer extraordinaire Member spmetla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Biden Thread

    Saying it acts like an imperial theocracy is a bit over the top. Not imperial nor theocracy. It certainly tries to act like the global hegemon but imperial theocracy is certainly not accurate. That there is a fifth of the country that want it to be a theocracy is a different thing entirely though and they are very much isolationists so not imperial there either.

    As for how it was founded, you're for the most part correct there. Only caveat really would be that the ruling class at the top 200 years ago was much closer to the indentured servants and even slaves than the ruling class at the top now. The idea of suing someone into bankruptcy for libel and other frivolous things would be a shock to the founding fathers. Back then you would still see your elected representatives in everyday life as they weren't sheltered in a life of private mansion/gated community to office with security guard and vacations in the cayman islands. The disconnect from reality that the current ruling class have isn't just a US phenomenon, I think Europe and East Asia sees the same divide hence the PM's scandal of his covid parties while the rest of the country was locked down.

    As for the masses not having a say, well a lot of that is unfortunately designed apathy. They absolutely could have a say but enough of the country thinks their votes don't matter or that nothing will change so they don't vote for candidates that could represent them. This allows our political class to cater toward each fringe and only try and draw enough votes from the undecided/apathetic when needed.

    "Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?"
    -Abraham Lincoln


    Four stage strategy from Yes, Minister:
    Stage one we say nothing is going to happen.
    Stage two, we say something may be about to happen, but we should do nothing about it.
    Stage three, we say that maybe we should do something about it, but there's nothing we can do.
    Stage four, we say maybe there was something we could have done, but it's too late now.

  21. #441

    Default Re: Biden Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    One of the more vexing issues.

    If you believe that life begins at conception then you are concerned with the right to life of the unborn. If you believe in individual choice and freedom to the greatest extent possible without harming others then you may opt to curtail a woman's right to determine all things for her own body SOLELY because of the rights of that unborn standing equal to those of the mother. Those who believe abortion should not happen tend to view the only exception as being those rare instances where only one of the two beings (again accepting the unborn as an equal being which many do not) could possibly survive. Our system of rights, including the right to life, was labeled as something that exists for each individual ab initio. When life begins is the crucial question in this position.

    Of course, a large percentage of those who would ban abortion would also ban contraception, pre-marital sex, non-monogamous and/or non-standard marriages, sexual education other than the reliance on abstinence; they would vehemently support the use of the death penalty for many violent crimes; and yet they would still vehemently assert their pro-freedom and pro-individual rights stance. These restricted thinkers would enact a series of restrictions that are impractical in many cases, immoral in some, often inherently self-contradictory, and arbitrarily restrictive of the rights they claim to be championing.

    The whole thing is depressing.
    There is a time and place for philosophical debate, but in our tangible world of power politics abortion law is not a philosophical debate and never has been here. I don't mean that it isn't up for philosophical debate, just that it isn't and hasn't been philosophically debated. "Force shits on Reason's back" goes the saying.

    1. There is no justification for persecuting women over abortion if one believes that a woman is a person equal to a fetus, just as we neither perform forcible transfers of blood, organs, or personal property between persons on the basis of need nor fine or imprison people for declining 'voluntary' donation of the aforementioned.

    2. Abortion rates have been in continuous decline across America since the early days of Roe v Wade according to many sources, and not especially in states that have moved to quasi-ban it over time. Key factors in this trend in the US and probably in other countries are better access to education, healthcare (e.g. contraceptives), and increasing social equality of women - all of which the anti-abortion lobby of American politics vehemently opposes in practice.

    3. On the more (vocally) radical end of anti-abortion politics, when faced by the question of what protections fetuses deserve given that higher quality of life for gestating women translates to higher quality of life for fetuses, will propose that women be prohibited from participating in most occupations or the public domain generally on account of the elimination of stress and danger that such measures will engender.

    4. The restriction of women's personal and property rights writ broadly also conveniently hinders women from obtaining illegal abortions, which tend to almost-completely fill the gap created by criminalization regimes, as is well-known.

    5. Republicans before Roe v Wade were overwhelmingly pro-abortion or laissez faire. It is well-documented that Richard Nixon and other leading Republicans, starting principally in 1972, took up the anti-abortion cause in order to foster support among traditionally-Democratic conservative Catholics as well as the growing far-right Evangelical caucus, complementing the Southern Strategy among racially-anxious Whites. Recall that it was also in the 1972 election that the famous anti-feminist activist Phyllis Schlafly launched her celebrity by (successfully) opposing the ratification of a constitutional amendment guaranteeing equal rights to women (her slogan: "Stop Taking Our Privileges").

    There are very very few opponents of abortion, strict or lax, who endorse the adoption of universal childhood subsidies, education, healthcare, parental leave, etc. Rather more, still the mild sort, are just Comstocks.

    To repeat as always: They don't care about fetuses.
    Vitiate Man.

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  22. #442

    Default Re: Biden Thread

    In the wake of the upcoming decision striking down abortion rights on the basis of, among other things, 17th-century anti-witch and pro-marital rape juristry

    Hale's defense of marital rape, as expressed in his Historia, continued in English law until 1991 and was cited in court as recently as 2009.[4] Modern scholars also offer criticism of Hale for his execution of at least two women for witchcraft in the Bury St Edmunds witch trials and his belief that capital punishment should extend to those as young as fourteen.[5]
    The view that a husband cannot be charged with the rape of his wife was described by Sir Matthew Hale (1609–1676) in History of the Pleas of the Crown, published posthumously in 1736, where he wrote that "The husband cannot be guilty of a rape committed by himself upon his lawful wife, for by their mutual consent and contract the wife hath given up herself in this kind unto her husband, which she cannot retract".
    the most extreme Republicans are pursuing their goal of outlawing birth control.
    https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/...261207007.html

    Almost all Americans who are sexually active rely on contraceptive technologies, from condoms up, at some point. Even in the most Republican states it will take some time to get there (we can only hope for internicine strife with injuries within movement conservatism). But they will, as the timeframe for the Republican fringe to make its agenda the party line has become very compressed. Republicans, like climate change, come for us all in the end, as the scholars keep predicting.
    Last edited by Montmorency; 05-08-2022 at 01:28.
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
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  23. #443
    Member Member Crandar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Biden Thread

    We just got our new US ambassador, Mr. Tsounis. Not exactly the American Talleyrand, but he pays well:
    A lawyer, developer and philanthropist, Tsunis has donated to both Democrats and Republicans, including more than $1.3m to Obama in 2012.

  24. #444

    Default Re: Biden Thread

    Crandar, if you wanted more about the internal dealings of the court, here is some. And on Chief Justice Roberts, who as I said prefers to make politics with finesse and subtlety compared to his copartisans, is as I suggested being shut out by the Radical Right majority.

    Of those rulings, the Obamacare one ruffled the most feathers because Roberts reportedly reversed his position days before the decision was announced, ultimately voting to find the law constitutional.

    There is a price to be paid for what he did. Everybody remembers it,” said an attorney close to several conservative justices, who was granted anonymity due to the sensitive nature of the court’s arguments.
    Context: A decade ago Roberts was going to overrule Obamacare/ACA in its entirety, but was persuaded that doing so would damage the court's legitimacy, so he negotiated with the liberals and satisfied himself with a pound (or two) of flesh from the program.

    In 2019 it was reported that Roberts had originally voted to invalidate the individual mandate and uphold the Medicaid expansion requirement. He believed that the Constitution's commerce clause never was intended to cover inactivity, such as the refusal to buy insurance. But he was uneasy with the political division in the vote tally and also did not want to invalidate the entire law because he thought the individual mandate was only inseverable from "community rating" and "guarantee issue" provisions of the law. Due to this impasse he explored the argument that the individual mandate could be upheld as a tax and invalidating the Medicaid expansion. Breyer and Kagan had previously voted to uphold the Medicaid expansion, but decided to switch and join Roberts's opinion on that section.[64]
    The Supreme Court as a concept has always been abstractly indefensible in its traditional form, but moreover it's been one of the single most important factors in the totalitarian radicalization of the American Right, since those who control the courts control the laws, and those who control the laws control the future, so you might as well try to seize all power in the name of the movement.


    Meanwhile, Spain's government, which previously made it illegal to harass or intimidate women in interference with their right to abortion, is increasing access to abortion in public healthcare, increasing the rights of teenagers to abortion, increasing access to feminine hygiene products (such as in schools), and mandating up to three days' leave for menstrual pains - per month.

    America goddam.
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


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  25. #445

    Default Re: Biden Thread

    my father was a prominent anti abortion activist. clarence thomas was a close family friend growing up. i literally cannot tell you how many times i EXPLICITLY heard from these people, EXPLICITLY, smug glee over the idea of women dying from unsafe abortions. they see it as appropriate punishment and they say so, outright. i was told as a child, over and over again, that women who sought abortions deserved to die. you can't appeal to the morality of these people because they have none.
    At first I misread the tweet as "my father was a prominent abortionst. Clarence Thomas was a close family friend" and was confused. Anyway, yes, I'm surprised if any veterans of 2000s Internet discussion boards could be unaware of this theme. But the naivety of the general population of passive liberals or apoliticals no longer surprises me, since 2016.
    Last edited by Montmorency; 05-16-2022 at 19:42.
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
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  26. #446

    Default Re: Biden Thread

    Here with Alabama, not to be confused for Mississippi. So it's already as bad there as it was in Ireland for the Duration, and abortion isn't even technically banned. What's horrific to me is that even if criminal(ized) syndicates can supply a steady stream of chemical abortifacients to red-state women (these already account for perhaps a majority of typical abortions), and none of these DIY procedures become medically complicated, all healthcare for women will come to suffer in quality and responsiveness.

    If you want to understand the future of medical care for pregnant women in a post-Roe world, look no further than what is happening in Alabama. As others have pointed out for Slate, the leaked draft majority opinion in Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization paves the way for criminalizing many aspects of pregnancy. While Texas’ abortion ban, S.B. 8, has essentially halted all abortions in the state, Alabama offers a glimpse of a troubling future in which the provision of medical care for pregnant people is deeply intertwined with the cultural attitudes that seek to criminalize “undesirable” pregnancy outcomes.

    In the summer of 2020, I got a firsthand experience of these attitudes in action. Three weeks after starting to practice at West Alabama Women’s Center, my application for a medical license was denied and my temporary medical license revoked for what we can’t help but question may have been political reasons. Although I had been hired to offer general gynecological care, the Women’s Center has historically been known as an abortion clinic, and I am open on social media about my views that abortion should be on demand. Because of the eight-month-long process to reverse and reinstate my license, I did not begin to understand how dire health care access was in Alabama until I was able to practice medicine in March 2021.

    I was astounded by how often patients were turned away from emergency rooms and their doctor’s offices in the middle of their miscarriages. No wonder Alabama has the third-highest maternal mortality rate in the nation, I initially thought. People are denied urgent medical attention outright, which left me wondering at first if health care providers were simply negligent and not keeping up with their medical education. Or was this lack of care a reflection of discrimination? Eventually, I landed on discrimination as the cause.

    But I was wrong. The reality is much worse. Instead, these medical professionals seem to know what they are supposed to do, but choose not to.

    I came to this realization when I saw a patient in active miscarriage (bleeding, passing clots, cramping) who had just had an office visit with her primary physician. She was forced to wait more than 48 hours in order to get the results of her bloodwork. Doctors will sometimes check a patient’s levels of HCG, or human chorionic gonadotropin, to help distinguish miscarriages from ongoing pregnancies or ectopic pregnancies. I could not understand why someone with all of the clinical signs of a miscarriage in progress was required to wait for much-needed intervention, all the while bleeding and cramping and suffering.

    I was angry that the patient’s doctor did not just provide the standard medical treatment for a miscarriage: surgically removing the contents of her uterus, which would stop her pain and bleeding. Then I saw a different patient who was actively miscarrying, and a lightbulb clicked on: The doctors were afraid of being attacked by the state of Alabama.

    Medical providers who treat pregnancy-related issues in red states exist in a constant state of fear of performing any procedure that can be classified as an abortion—even while the procedures remain legal. We know that we face the risk of being prosecuted, having our licenses revoked, or even being thrown in jail if we fail to precisely follow every regulation, no matter how arcane or medically unnecessary it is. (We can be cited if the clinic’s janitor’s closet isn’t the size deemed appropriate by the state, for example.)
    As an OB-GYN, I work in active fear of being arrested for providing evidence-based health care in this state. I am certain that I am not alone. Intervening in an ongoing pregnancy would be examined as an “abortion” by the medical board and subject to the same scrutiny as any procedure I perform in my clinic. Doctors know that if you perform anything that could even be suspected of an abortion, you had better have all of your regulations followed to the letter. No wonder, even though we are directed under federal law to provide appropriate medical care to any pregnant person who shows up in the ER with a medical emergency, few in Alabama are willing to risk their careers and liberty to provide that care.

    Too often, I see and hear about examples of this stigma and fear at work when women come to me after being refused treatment in the local ER. For example, one patient started bleeding heavily at home. When she got out of bed in the morning, she said blood and clots ran down her legs and onto the floor. She rushed to the ER, where she told the nurse practitioner that she had taken mifepristone and misoprostol for a medication abortion 10 days earlier. The nurse practitioner knew the patient was experiencing an incomplete abortion, which happens when the body is not able to completely pass the pregnancy on its own. (Miscarriage and abortion are often indistinguishable clinically, and that’s a huge problem because people miscarrying will be denied care because of abortion suspicion.)

    As is protocol, the nurse practitioner called the OB-GYN on call. He said he would not see the patient. No further explanation was given. The nurse practitioner then tried involving the ER physician; however, he was “in a meeting” and unavailable. Ultimately, she was told by hospital administrators to send the patient more than 2.5 hours away for care, back to the clinic that gave her the medication to end her pregnancy.

    Desperate for help, the nurse practitioner called me. I, of course, said that if the patient was safe to drive (ride with a friend) all that way, I would certainly provide the needed care. Sarah had an aspiration procedure with me that took less than seven minutes from start to finish. It was uncomplicated and safe. She later told me that she slept in the car during the 2.5-hour ride back home. Seven minutes could not be spared by the doctors at her local emergency room where she was bleeding on their floor. Instead, she was told to go away.
    Many of the medical professionals in Alabama who refuse to treat women who are miscarrying are not incompetent or hateful—they are scared.
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


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  27. #447

    Default Re: Biden Thread

    The Talibangelicals in Georgia this week bombed and destroyed a non-Christian monument (associated with right-wing conspiracism) known as Georgia's Guidestones after radical Republican politicians declaimed the site as a font of Satanic influence which needed to be smote.

    God is God all by Himself. He can do ANYTHING He wants to do. That includes striking down Satanic Guidestones.
    It is the culmination of a grassroots Evangelical campaign designating the site as Satanic since it was first established over 40 years ago.


    ICYMI a few weeks ago the Supreme Court declared almost all gun control facially unconstitutional.

    On the other hand, California has implemented its latest budget, including provisions for state-sponsored manufacturing of insulin.


    During the public hearings of the January 6 Commission into Trump and stuff, the Republican Speaker of the Arizona House, Rusty Bowers, testified that he refused encouragement from Trump and Giuliani to overturn the result of the election in Arizona, and reaffirmed that the Bie Lie of the stolen election is indeed a lie.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bowers
    You are asking me to do something that is counter to my oath when I swore to the Constitution to uphold it, and I also swore to the Constitution and the laws of the state of Arizona. It is a tenet of my faith that the Constitution is divinely inspired, of my most basic foundational beliefs. And so, for me to do that because somebody just asked me to is foreign to my very being. I—I will not do it.
    Strong words!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bowers
    If he is the nominee, if he was up against Biden, I’d vote for him again. Simply because what he did the first time, before COVID, was so good for the country. In my view it was great.
    A great display of principled fortitude against attempts to morally compel him to vote for people who intend to do things he believes to be wrong and bad. One must certainly respect the man's commitment to his ethos!
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


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  28. #448

    Default Re: Biden Thread

    Still can't believe the entire center-to-right spectrum united for a week in lying about the non-reality of the easily-provable account of a 9-year-old who was raped pregnant and struggled to secure an abortion following the termination of constitutional privacy rights. Hundreds of pubescent children receive clinical abortions every year! It's not even rare.

    But more important than even this are the millions of women who will now (already are) be withheld routine or acute medical care because of the actuarial fear that any tangential medical intervention upon females or their reproductive systems could potentially be considered abortion by zealous state prosecutors. Even the Taliban would be confused.

    Such a great evil stalks this country. In every facet of our lives fascists and theocrats seek to impose slavery and death on our people.
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


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  29. #449

    Default Re: Biden Thread

    @rory_20_uk

    Arguably not even the worst five stories I've seen yet about denial of medical care to ambulatory uteri.

    Six days after the Supreme Court struck down the right to abortion, lupus patient Becky Schwarz got an unexpected message from her rheumatologist.

    “This is a notice to let you know that we are pausing all prescriptions and subsequent refills of methotrexate,” the message read. “This decision has been made in response to the reversal of Roe vs. Wade.”

    Schwarz was stunned. Methotrexate is a cheap, common drug prescribed to millions of Americans. Like her, many have rheumatic illnesses. Others take it to treat inflammatory bowel disease, psoriasis or cancer.

    Yet few are aware that it is used off-label to end ectopic pregnancies, or that it could be restricted by doctors or pharmacists even in states like Virginia that do not ban abortion.

    The reasons are numerous, and muddy.

    In Texas, dispensing methotrexate to someone who uses it to induce a miscarriage after 49 days of gestation is a felony; that makes pharmacists hesitant to fill such prescriptions for almost anyone with a uterus. A new total ban on abortion in Tennessee will effectively criminalize any medication that could disrupt pregnancy past the point of fertilization, with strict exceptions for a patient who will otherwise die. And in Virginia, confusion over rules about who is permitted to prescribe drugs “qualified as abortifacients” may be blocking access to the medication.

    “That’s what was shocking to me,” said Schwarz, a 27-year-old who lives in Tysons Corner, Va. “In a state where I thought I was relatively protected regardless of what the Supreme Court decided, I found out I wasn’t.”

    Methotrexate was originally developed as a chemotherapy agent more than 60 years ago. But in low doses, it has proved to be one of the safest, least expensive and most effective treatments for roughly a dozen autoimmune conditions, from juvenile idiopathic arthritis to Crohn’s disease.

    “It’s one of the most common medications that I prescribe,” said Dr. Grant Schulert, a pediatric rheumatology specialist at Cincinnati Children’s Hospital. “It’s really a mainstay of our practice.”

    Indeed, methotrexate was first approved to treat rheumatic illnesses in 1959, before Schulert was born and almost 15 years before Roe vs. Wade was decided.

    Since its reversal, many patients have been delayed or denied this “gold-standard” treatment for conditions that have nothing to do with pregnancy.

    “I have gotten some reports where children have been denied methotrexate for their juvenile arthritis until they’ve proven they’re not pregnant,” said Dr. Cuoghi Edens, an assistant professor of internal medicine and pediatrics at University of Chicago Medicine and a rheumatology expert who treats adults and children.

    In one case, a pharmacist initially refused to dispense methotrexate to an 8-year-old girl in Texas. In a note the child’s doctor shared with Edens, the pharmacist wrote, “Females of possible child bearing potential have to have diagnosis on hard copy with state abortion laws.”

    Methotrexate is a folate antagonist, which can cause miscarriage at high doses. Although it is not used in medication abortion, it is the preferred treatment for ectopic pregnancy, a rapidly fatal complication that affects about 100,000 patients per year in the U.S.

    In an ectopic pregnancy, the fertilized egg never reaches the uterus and instead implants, for example, in the fallopian tube. Such pregnancies are always fatal for the fetus and can also kill the mother.

    Those patients represent about 2% of the 5 million Americans who take methotrexate. Yet this uncommon, off-label use is the basis for tight new restrictions on a medication that is disproportionately prescribed to women and girls of reproductive age.

    “The majority of rheumatic diseases affect females at substantially higher rates than males,” Edens explained. “The prevalence of rheumatoid arthritis in women to men is 3 to 1. For lupus it’s 10 to 1. And so rheumatology is a very female-predominate patient population.”

    Such patients take a far lower dose of methotrexate than is used to treat ectopic pregnancy or breast cancer. Most are counseled to use contraceptives, and to switch to alternative treatments if they seek to get pregnant.

    Nevertheless, some doctors have already stopped prescribing methotrexate rather than risk falling afoul of antiabortion laws.

    Many pharmacists have likewise refused to fill methotrexate prescriptions, or have demanded additional proof before dispensing the medication to patients they believe could get pregnant.

    Experts say it’s not clear yet how many patients will lose access to their medication in the wake of the Supreme Court decision, or even which states might try to limit it.

    That’s led to panic for many patients who rely on the drug.

    “The biggest thing that right now I’m hearing is just a lot of fear of what is going to happen next,” said Schulert. “Even in patients who are doing well who stop a medication, about half will flare their disease in six to 12 months.”

    Without methotrexate, many of Schulert’s juvenile idiopathic arthritis patients could no longer hold a pencil or type on a computer. Others face irreversible damage to organs and joints.

    “Patients are saying, ‘I’ve been on this medication for years, I’m finally feeling like myself again, I don’t want to have to switch,’” said Zoe Rothblatt, a community outreach manager at the Global Healthy Living Foundation, a patient advocacy organization. “It’s the gold standard, and we need to get the word out so people aren’t scared and they’re able to get their medication.”
    Early-onset puberty in females is now considered to be earlier than age 8. Substandard medical care across the spectrum is probably a greater ongoing public health hazard to women and girls in America than Covid at its height.
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


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  30. #450
    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Biden Thread

    Most healthcare professionals aren't going to put their career / lives / family on the line to fight against State laws so I'm not surprised that they're playing it safe and covering their own backs rather than risk being dragged through the courts for years. And of course, unlike prescribing vast amounts of opiates, there's no money in Methotrexate.

    Most of the world looks at this (and many other things in the USA) with disbelief.

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
    Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings.
    "If you can't trust the local kleptocrat whom you installed by force and prop up with billions of annual dollars, who can you trust?" Lemur
    If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain.
    The best argument against democracy is a five minute talk with the average voter. Winston Churchill

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