As frustrating as Manchin is, without him there would be no Dem control of the Senate in the first place. It sucks, but its the cards we were dealt.
As frustrating as Manchin is, without him there would be no Dem control of the Senate in the first place. It sucks, but its the cards we were dealt.
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Hvil i fred HoreToreA man who casts no shadow has no soul.
I think the evidence so far is that the caucus is broadly united on agenda items like a minimum wage increase, but Manchin and Sinema hold the veto. Which is obvious and something I warned about before the election: it would take a miracle to pass landmark legislation with 51 Senators, let alone 50. (At least we've proven the votes for a minimum wage increase exist in the House even with a sinew of a majority.)
I just hope the conservatives are a transactional sort and that killing the minimum wage increase opens the door for the next item on the agenda.
In other news:
Summary of recent polls of how many Republicans believe the election was stolen from Donald Trump:
USA Today/Suffolk: 73%
Quinnipiac 76%
Gallup 83%
CNN 75%
Monmouth 72%
Fox News 68%
Vitiate Man.
History repeats the old conceits
The glib replies, the same defeats
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
It was over a decade ago, but during the ACA debate of 2009 it was a single senator, Lieberman, who killed off the public option in the bill. A single senator carries a lot of weight.
Sadly I think the vast majority of them, including the "reasonable" ones, are totally fine with giving Dems zero wins.
Last edited by Hooahguy; 02-28-2021 at 01:54.
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Hvil i fred HoreToreA man who casts no shadow has no soul.
Just for the record, but the Dems had 59/60 Senators 10 or 11 years ago. Not limiting/scrapping the filibuster, not doing more with reconciliation, that was purely the caucus consensus in itself, partly because we had a surfeit of Manchin types. Thankfully it's not as bad anymore.
Vitiate Man.
History repeats the old conceits
The glib replies, the same defeats
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
I will bet the farm that when the discussion comes up for a new fighter jet to replace the 1 TRILLION DOLLAR disaster known as the F-35, there will be no shortage of senator votes from both sides required to fund the new aircraft. And these same congressmen/women can't agree on bettering the employment conditions for millions of Americans by raising the minimum wage. Is it any wonder why folks hate big government?...it would take a miracle to pass landmark legislation with 51 Senators, let alone 50.
Last edited by ReluctantSamurai; 02-28-2021 at 03:01.
High Plains Drifter
That too is a choice. If the people there are happy to elect politicians who have not the slightest interest in sorting out the mess, and instead just want to blame renewables / democrats / socialists then the majority of voters have chosen the mess they're in - or at the very least this is not an issue that they are concerned with as others (which is one of the many flaws in FPTP for the consumer and one of the best feature for politicians).
An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings.
"If you can't trust the local kleptocrat whom you installed by force and prop up with billions of annual dollars, who can you trust?" Lemur
If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain.
The best argument against democracy is a five minute talk with the average voter. Winston Churchill
It isn't a problem with Big Government, it is a problem with Corrupt Government. The only thing that benefits from shrinking government is those who already have - so big companies and high net worth individuals; unchecked local government can be equally corrupt and so strong, independent oversight should be what is sought for, not making things worse.
An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings.
"If you can't trust the local kleptocrat whom you installed by force and prop up with billions of annual dollars, who can you trust?" Lemur
If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain.
The best argument against democracy is a five minute talk with the average voter. Winston Churchill
Also valuable manufacturing jobs. Which is why Bernie worked to ensure that parts for the F-35 were manufactured in Vermont.
As I discussed before, the modern GOP is rooted in culture war resentment rather than actual policy, with their policy goals boiling down to "whatever will make the left cry today."
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Hvil i fred HoreToreA man who casts no shadow has no soul.
Massive stumble by Andrew Yang in his bid for NYC mayor. https://twitter.com/AndrewYang/statu...20403594362883
According to multiple sources on the ground the A train does not in fact take you to the Bronx, you need to transfer at 125th street to B or D train to get there.
Clearly not a man of the people.
On the Path to the Streets of Gold: a Suebi AAR
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Hvil i fred HoreToreA man who casts no shadow has no soul.
I'm not going to lie, I really like the guy and I enjoy his try-hard attitude towards being a people person.
Out of any politician, his personality just really keys into what I am looking for.
It doesn't really matter to me if he is just learning the NYC subway, that fact is he thinks he needs to embrace it and needs to learn and meet New Yorkers. That's a good thing you want out of a politician. Here comes Monty to scorn me, but you can have all the best policies in the world, but being a disengaged wonk with no empathic connection with constituents is bad.
Yang hasn't really demonstrated advantages in either domain.
Also, no offense, but ACIN, it's demeaning to New Yorkers to think that riding the subway makes anyone a man of the people. Almost literally everyone in NYC uses the subway at some point. Bloomberg famously rode the subway to work each day.
Vitiate Man.
History repeats the old conceits
The glib replies, the same defeats
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings.
"If you can't trust the local kleptocrat whom you installed by force and prop up with billions of annual dollars, who can you trust?" Lemur
If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain.
The best argument against democracy is a five minute talk with the average voter. Winston Churchill
Uhh whatever he is doing seems to be working so far: https://www.scribd.com/document/4921...opline-1-20-21
One of the best fav/unfav ratio, ranked choice poll put him as the winner at over 60% in the 10th round.
Use of public transportation is not a sufficient criteria to be a man of the people, but it is a necessary one. It's not the only thing he pushes either, he is hitting up bodegas/bakeries (which I find the most boring of his content), speaking out against anti-Asian violence which seems to be an emerging NYC topic this past week and is asking for an independent investigation into Cuomo with an emphasis on believing the women's accounts.
None of that is distinguishing if you pause, but yeah, I showed you some of that favorable polling a few weeks ago IIRC (the one you linked is sponsored by Yang's campaign). In a couple months things should start getting properly settled in the rankings as the campaigns proper get underway, and we'll see how the major candidates stand. Remember, the NYC mayoral clowncar is ~ the 2019 Democratic primary clowncar.
...
Vitiate Man.
History repeats the old conceits
The glib replies, the same defeats
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Whoa
Vitiate Man.
History repeats the old conceits
The glib replies, the same defeats
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Re: abolishing the filibuster:
No bully pulpit will change this unless we somehow flip 2 more senate seats. And more relevant to the minimum wage, there might be no choice but to go to a lower number as Manchin wants. Or perhaps index it to the local cost of living.Manchin on Monday signaled growing frustration with questions about his position.
Asked if he might change his mind on the filibuster at some point, he turned around and yelled at reporters: “Never!”
“Jesus Christ! What don’t you understand about never?” he grumbled.
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Hvil i fred HoreToreA man who casts no shadow has no soul.
Joe Biden is turning out to be even weaker than I thought. Already he has backed off two of his campaign promises when the going got tough (the other being significant reduction of student loan debt).
First, the federal $15/hr minimum wage increase. Only twice in the last 25 years has an increase in wages been voted down:
https://ballotpedia.org/Minimum_wage_on_the_ballot
Of the ballot measures that did pass, only a handful did not recieve at least 60% of the vote. The most recent ballot in Florida calling for a raise to $15/hr, won by a 61 to 39 margin. For obvious reasons, wage increases are popular with working people.
Now we have a newly elected president being held hostage by one or two senators, despite making this statement on the campaign trail last year:
https://www.wwlp.com/news/biden-push...to-15-an-hour/
And then doubled down by posting this on his website:“Fifteen dollars should be a minimum wage in the United States of America. Period,” Biden said.
So instead of fighting to make good on a campaign promise, Biden and several Democratic senators are simply running up the white flag. The parliamentarian issue is an out right lie used by the Democrats:As Vice President, Biden helped get state and local laws increasing the minimum wage across the finish line – including in New York State – and has supported eliminating the tipped minimum wage. He firmly believes all Americans are owed a raise, and it’s well past time we increase the federal minimum wage to $15 across the country. This increase would include workers who aren’t currently earning the minimum wage, like the farmworkers who grow our food and domestic workers who care for our aging and sick and for those with disabilities. As president, Biden will also support indexing the minimum wage to the median hourly wage so that low-wage workers’ wages keep up with those of middle income workers.
https://www.dailyposter.com/p/breaki...ows-how-harris
It's been done in the past (ignoring the parliamentarian rule) and could be done now if Democrats had the balls to fight for what the people of America want. But Biden is starting to show his true corporate politicain colors by saying he respects the parliamentarian’s decision, partly due to pressure from business groups:The development is not catastrophic for the $15 minimum wage provision — if Harris simply uses her power to ignore the opinion and clear the path for the measure she has long insisted she supports.
“It's been 12 years since we’ve raised the minimum wage, and if we’re going to make those promises, we have to be able to deliver on them,” Democratic Rep. Pramila Jayapal said Wednesday on MSNBC. “Because, I'll tell you what, in two years... when people vote in the midterms, you’re not gonna be able to say, ‘Well, I’m sorry, we couldn’t raise the minimum wage because the parliamentarian ruled that we couldn't do it.’ That's not gonna fly.”
https://thehill.com/business-a-lobby...ng-the-minimum
So in a defininte walking back of a prime campaign promise, White House Chief of Staff had this to say:
What a bunch of crap. Now I'm no expert on Senate parliamentary procedures, but this seems to suggest, that if the Dems had any balls, they'd at least try this:In an MSNBC interview on Wednesday, Klain said that if the parliamentarian advises Democrats against including the minimum wage hike, the White House will not want Democrats to move ahead with it. If Harris refuses to use her power, that decision could leave workers who are paid poverty wages and toiling in hazardous conditions during the pandemic to wait indefinitely for better pay.
The memo continues:“What would probably happen is a senator would appeal the ruling of the chair and then the full Senate would vote on whether to sustain the appeal,” it says. “The Chair’s ruling would be upheld as long as there are not 60 affirmative votes to sustain the appeal. So, if the majority could hold enough members together (less than 60 affirmative votes to sustain the appeal), the ruling that runs counter to the Parliamentarian’s advice would be upheld.”
So instead of fighting tooth-and-nail, even if you lose in the end, you can point to specific members of your own party and hold them accountable for the debacle (ie Manchin and Sinema). The voters of America don't give a damn that you are "fighting our guts out" to get a scandal-plagued nominee (Neera Tanden) appointed to the Office of Management and Budget.The same memo also warns against Harris accepting the parliamentarian’s advice and Senate Democrats then pretending to push for the new minimum wage as part of the deliberations. In that situation, the memo suggests Democrats would be setting the minimum wage measure up for defeat.
“If in the same scenario, the chair followed the parliamentarian’s advice (and) a senator from the majority party (in favor of the provision at issue) were to appeal that ruling, then it would also take 60 affirmative votes to overturn the chair’s ruling,” says the memo. “Thus, the majority would be in a weaker position by doing it this way, because they would need to muster 60 affirmative votes to overturn the chair.”
Get the federal minimum wage increased to $15/hr, Joe Biden. PERIOD.
Geezus I hate politcs....
Last edited by ReluctantSamurai; 03-02-2021 at 16:14.
High Plains Drifter
Except that Manchin doesnt give a about Harris overruling the Parliamentarian. He won't vote for a $15 minimum wage. It would be a poison pill that destroys the Covid relief bill because where would the 50th vote come from? Romney? Yes, its insanely frustrating that one or two senators hold so much power but that's how it is, and no amount of ranting will change that.
Also did he back off student debt forgiveness? IIRC, he campaigned on forgiveness of up to $10k and it appears he is sticking to that.
Last edited by Hooahguy; 03-02-2021 at 19:30.
On the Path to the Streets of Gold: a Suebi AAR
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Hvil i fred HoreToreA man who casts no shadow has no soul.
I realize this. Correct me if I'm wrong: Bernie puts the $15/hr raise in the bill, and it gets voted down. Now you can point to all who voted against it, including Manchin and Sinema (if she follows suit), and say these Congresspeople don't want to make life better for Americans. Then you go back, remove it from the bill, and hold another vote where the bill likely passes.Except that Manchin doesnt give a about Harris overruling the Parliamentarian. He won't vote for a $15 minimum wage.
Otherwise you give Republicans the ammunition to hammer you about reneging on a campaign promise, and they can even diss Bernie for not even putting it in in the first place. Seems to me to be a lose-lose course to take. Even worse, you open the door to the possibility of the GOP getting their own bill (Josh Hawley's) onto the floor:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/sarahha...llar-companies
It's also painfully obvious, that Manchin doesn't give a about VP Harris, Joe Biden, or anyone else but himself. So put the bill to a vote with the $15/hr minimum wage included, let his vote be logged as a nay, then let him answer to his own constituents who I'm sure would gladly welcome a raise.
Democrats are just effing stupid.....
What he said was this:Also did he back off student debt forgiveness? IIRC, he campaigned on forgiveness of up to $10k and it appears he is sticking to that.
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...rican-students
And that whole town hall thing was a rambling disaster, IMHO....For the record, he campaigned on two distinct planks. One: “immediate” cancellation of $10,000 for every borrower as a form of Covid relief. Two: the cancellation of all undergraduate student loans for debt-holders who attended public universities and HBCUs and who earn up to $125,000 a year. Keeping these two promises is the absolute minimum the Biden administration needs to do to keep the public’s trust.
Last edited by ReluctantSamurai; 03-02-2021 at 20:55.
High Plains Drifter
Theoretically its a fine plan, but I dont think it will work because Manchin doesnt really care about such messaging. He would laugh at a campaign aimed at him about his $15 minimum wage vote.
Or perhaps instead of antagonizing him in a move that won't have the desired effect anyways, we could try again on another bill that Manchin really wants like an infrastructure bill. Just my two cents.
On the Path to the Streets of Gold: a Suebi AAR
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Hvil i fred HoreToreA man who casts no shadow has no soul.
You do that anyway. I would not underestimate how the folks of W. Virginia might feel. All the BS rhetoric about upholding a parliamentary procedure put in place by a long-dead W. Virginia senator, pales when compared to the financial hardships they are facing...as the recent Harris interview at WSAZ-TV shows. I'm sure he already po'd by that very interview.we could try again on another bill that Manchin really wants like an infrastructure bill.
And besides, who's the president? Biden or Manchin? Middle-of-the-Road Joe Biden better stop kissing his ass, and start playing hard-ball, or this crap will just continue. My 2 cents....
High Plains Drifter
Manchin thinks he is working in those people's interest. He probably believes that a $15 minimum wage would decimate rural small businesses. I saw the recent poll that a majority in WV want a $15 so he is obviously wrong, but its what he believes and he clearly isnt going to budge. Biden isn't a king and the bully pulpit has limitations as we clearly see.
On the Path to the Streets of Gold: a Suebi AAR
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Hvil i fred HoreToreA man who casts no shadow has no soul.
Manchin's worries on small businesses and the $15 minimum are not without some support. Though overall views are mixed.
"The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken
Look, this obsession with small business has driven policy so far off course. We all like the idea of mom and pop shops, but that doesn't mean we should give them carte blanche to treat their employees in a substandard way.
There are plenty of benefits we can implement that scale with size and scope to make small and medium business more competitive with the big players. Allowing them to pay poverty wages is not one of them.
This isn't about being a king, it's about sending a message to Manchin. If he wants to flex his newfound gravitas to block legislation that the majority of US citizens want, and that was a major campaign promise made by Democrats, then he will be called out every single time. You keep saying Biden should wait for some nebulous transportation bill that Manchin has a strong interest in to attach a minimum wage amendment. Who's to say that any such bill comes along (and likely too late to benefit Americans in immediate need or Democratic power), and who's to say if it comes to a parliamentary issue again, that Manchin won't vote the same way?Biden isn't a king and the bully pulpit has limitations as we clearly see.
I'll make you a friendly .org wager: Sometime in the next two years (presuming the Dems don't get some watered down version of their own), the Republicans come up with their own minimum wage bill that gets passed, therefore putting a nail in the coffin of Democratic control of both houses of Congress. I've already referenced one by Josh Hawley....JOSH HAWLEY for gods sake! The wager: a $50 contribution to the ORG.
So depending on the accuracy of that:Though overall views are mixed.
As the above graphic depicts, the vast majority of small business owners support the $15 minimum wage increase, with only 17 percent opposing it. Yet 15.4 percent are unsure if they endorse the policy or not, which might be directly attributed to some owners not even being aware of the new policy.
[...]it's notable that 67.6 percent of small business owners are supportive of a change that will cost them several extra dollars an hour.Meh...business owners deciding on whether to grant a wage increase is never a good thing, IMHO.A combined 41.8 percent of small business owners indicated that the $15 minimum wage hike will either be "great" or make things "slightly better" for their small business. In comparison, only 27.4 percent of poll participants believed the policy change will make things either "slightly worse" or "very bad" for their operation.
In terms of those who think the impact will be negative, we proposed a follow-up question that asked them if they think their small business will survive.
These results were not as encouraging. Despite 38.69 percent of respondents thinking their small business will survive, 18.25 percent believe it will not, and 43.07 percent lack the confidence to make a decision either way.
Better to look at what's happened in places that have already raised minimum wages, some significantly:
https://www.yahoo.com/now/happened-p...194711258.html
The dire consequences the naysayers to wage increases, haven't been borne out by the facts....
Last edited by ReluctantSamurai; 03-02-2021 at 23:59.
High Plains Drifter
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