Org Mobile Site
Thread: Biden Thread
As frustrating as Manchin is, without him there would be no Dem control of the Senate in the first place. It sucks, but its the cards we were dealt.
I think the evidence so far is that the caucus is broadly united on agenda items like a minimum wage increase, but Manchin and Sinema hold the veto. Which is obvious and something I warned about before the election: it would take a miracle to pass landmark legislation with 51 Senators, let alone 50. (At least we've proven the votes for a minimum wage increase exist in the House even with a sinew of a majority.)
I just hope the conservatives are a transactional sort and that killing the minimum wage increase opens the door for the next item on the agenda.
In other news:
I just hope the conservatives are a transactional sort and that killing the minimum wage increase opens the door for the next item on the agenda.
In other news:
Originally Posted by :
Summary of recent polls of how many Republicans believe the election was stolen from Donald Trump:
USA Today/Suffolk: 73%
Quinnipiac 76%
Gallup 83%
CNN 75%
Monmouth 72%
Fox News 68%
Summary of recent polls of how many Republicans believe the election was stolen from Donald Trump:
USA Today/Suffolk: 73%
Quinnipiac 76%
Gallup 83%
CNN 75%
Monmouth 72%
Fox News 68%
It was over a decade ago, but during the ACA debate of 2009 it was a single senator, Lieberman, who killed off the public option in the bill. A single senator carries a lot of weight.
Originally Posted by Montmorency:
I just hope the conservatives are a transactional sort and that killing the minimum wage increase opens the door for the next item on the agenda.
Sadly I think the vast majority of them, including the "reasonable" ones, are totally fine with giving Dems zero wins.I just hope the conservatives are a transactional sort and that killing the minimum wage increase opens the door for the next item on the agenda.
Originally Posted by Hooahguy:
It was over a decade ago, but during the ACA debate of 2009 it was a single senator, Lieberman, who killed off the public option in the bill. A single senator carries a lot of weight.
Sadly I think the vast majority of them, including the "reasonable" ones, are totally fine with giving Dems zero wins.
Just for the record, but the Dems had 59/60 Senators 10 or 11 years ago. Not limiting/scrapping the filibuster, not doing more with reconciliation, that was purely the caucus consensus in itself, partly because we had a surfeit of Manchin types. Thankfully it's not as bad anymore.It was over a decade ago, but during the ACA debate of 2009 it was a single senator, Lieberman, who killed off the public option in the bill. A single senator carries a lot of weight.
Sadly I think the vast majority of them, including the "reasonable" ones, are totally fine with giving Dems zero wins.
Originally Posted by :
...it would take a miracle to pass landmark legislation with 51 Senators, let alone 50.
I will bet the farm that when the discussion comes up for a new fighter jet to replace the 1 TRILLION DOLLAR disaster known as the F-35, there will be no shortage of senator votes from both sides required to fund the new aircraft. And these same congressmen/women can't agree on bettering the employment conditions for millions of Americans by raising the minimum wage. Is it any wonder why folks hate big government?...it would take a miracle to pass landmark legislation with 51 Senators, let alone 50.
Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai:
I will bet the farm that when the discussion comes up for a new fighter jet to replace the 1 TRILLION DOLLAR disaster known as the F-35, there will be no shortage of senator votes from both sides required to fund the new aircraft. And these same congressmen/women can't agree on bettering the employment conditions for millions of Americans by raising the minimum wage. Is it any wonder why folks hate big government?
Defense spending is a jobs guarantee for a lot of STEM jobs. Who cares about the F-35, do any of us expect WW3 to break out between US and China and not end in a nuclear holocaust?I will bet the farm that when the discussion comes up for a new fighter jet to replace the 1 TRILLION DOLLAR disaster known as the F-35, there will be no shortage of senator votes from both sides required to fund the new aircraft. And these same congressmen/women can't agree on bettering the employment conditions for millions of Americans by raising the minimum wage. Is it any wonder why folks hate big government?
Originally Posted by Hooahguy:
Bold of you to assume Texan voters will remember this when 2022 and 2024 come around.
That too is a choice. If the people there are happy to elect politicians who have not the slightest interest in sorting out the mess, and instead just want to blame renewables / democrats / socialists then the majority of voters have chosen the mess they're in - or at the very least this is not an issue that they are concerned with as others (which is one of the many flaws in FPTP for the consumer and one of the best feature for politicians).Bold of you to assume Texan voters will remember this when 2022 and 2024 come around.
Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai:
I will bet the farm that when the discussion comes up for a new fighter jet to replace the 1 TRILLION DOLLAR disaster known as the F-35, there will be no shortage of senator votes from both sides required to fund the new aircraft. And these same congressmen/women can't agree on bettering the employment conditions for millions of Americans by raising the minimum wage. Is it any wonder why folks hate big government?
It isn't a problem with Big Government, it is a problem with Corrupt Government. The only thing that benefits from shrinking government is those who already have - so big companies and high net worth individuals; unchecked local government can be equally corrupt and so strong, independent oversight should be what is sought for, not making things worse.I will bet the farm that when the discussion comes up for a new fighter jet to replace the 1 TRILLION DOLLAR disaster known as the F-35, there will be no shortage of senator votes from both sides required to fund the new aircraft. And these same congressmen/women can't agree on bettering the employment conditions for millions of Americans by raising the minimum wage. Is it any wonder why folks hate big government?
Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name:
Defense spending is a jobs guarantee for a lot of STEM jobs. Who cares about the F-35, do any of us expect WW3 to break out between US and China and not end in a nuclear holocaust?
Also valuable manufacturing jobs. Which is why Bernie worked to ensure that parts for the F-35 were manufactured in Vermont. Defense spending is a jobs guarantee for a lot of STEM jobs. Who cares about the F-35, do any of us expect WW3 to break out between US and China and not end in a nuclear holocaust?
Originally Posted by rory_20_uk:
That too is a choice. If the people there are happy to elect politicians who have not the slightest interest in sorting out the mess, and instead just want to blame renewables / democrats / socialists then the majority of voters have chosen the mess they're in - or at the very least this is not an issue that they are concerned with as others (which is one of the many flaws in FPTP for the consumer and one of the best feature for politicians).
As I discussed before, the modern GOP is rooted in culture war resentment rather than actual policy, with their policy goals boiling down to "whatever will make the left cry today."That too is a choice. If the people there are happy to elect politicians who have not the slightest interest in sorting out the mess, and instead just want to blame renewables / democrats / socialists then the majority of voters have chosen the mess they're in - or at the very least this is not an issue that they are concerned with as others (which is one of the many flaws in FPTP for the consumer and one of the best feature for politicians).
Massive stumble by Andrew Yang in his bid for NYC mayor. https://twitter.com/AndrewYang/statu...20403594362883
According to multiple sources on the ground the A train does not in fact take you to the Bronx, you need to transfer at 125th street to B or D train to get there.
Clearly not a man of the people.
According to multiple sources on the ground the A train does not in fact take you to the Bronx, you need to transfer at 125th street to B or D train to get there.
Clearly not a man of the people.
Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name:
Massive stumble by Andrew Yang in his bid for NYC mayor. https://twitter.com/AndrewYang/statu...20403594362883
According to multiple sources on the ground the A train does not in fact take you to the Bronx, you need to transfer at 125th street to B or D train to get there.
Clearly not a man of the people.
I can't be the only one who thinks he is trying way too hard to appear to be a "real" New Yorker.Massive stumble by Andrew Yang in his bid for NYC mayor. https://twitter.com/AndrewYang/statu...20403594362883
According to multiple sources on the ground the A train does not in fact take you to the Bronx, you need to transfer at 125th street to B or D train to get there.
Clearly not a man of the people.
Originally Posted by Hooahguy:
I can't be the only one who thinks he is trying way too hard to appear to be a "real" New Yorker.
I'm not going to lie, I really like the guy and I enjoy his try-hard attitude towards being a people person.I can't be the only one who thinks he is trying way too hard to appear to be a "real" New Yorker.
Out of any politician, his personality just really keys into what I am looking for.
It doesn't really matter to me if he is just learning the NYC subway, that fact is he thinks he needs to embrace it and needs to learn and meet New Yorkers. That's a good thing you want out of a politician. Here comes Monty to scorn me, but you can have all the best policies in the world, but being a disengaged wonk with no empathic connection with constituents is bad.
Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name:
I'm not going to lie, I really like the guy and I enjoy his try-hard attitude towards being a people person.
Out of any politician, his personality just really keys into what I am looking for.
It doesn't really matter to me if he is just learning the NYC subway, that fact is he thinks he needs to embrace it and needs to learn and meet New Yorkers. That's a good thing you want out of a politician. Here comes Monty to scorn me, but you can have all the best policies in the world, but being a disengaged wonk with no empathic connection with constituents is bad.
Yang hasn't really demonstrated advantages in either domain. I'm not going to lie, I really like the guy and I enjoy his try-hard attitude towards being a people person.
Out of any politician, his personality just really keys into what I am looking for.
It doesn't really matter to me if he is just learning the NYC subway, that fact is he thinks he needs to embrace it and needs to learn and meet New Yorkers. That's a good thing you want out of a politician. Here comes Monty to scorn me, but you can have all the best policies in the world, but being a disengaged wonk with no empathic connection with constituents is bad.
Also, no offense, but ACIN, it's demeaning to New Yorkers to think that riding the subway makes anyone a man of the people. Almost literally everyone in NYC uses the subway at some point. Bloomberg famously rode the subway to work each day.
Originally Posted by Hooahguy:
As I discussed before, the modern GOP is rooted in culture war resentment rather than actual policy, with their policy goals boiling down to "whatever will make the left cry today."
And if making perceived "leftists" (or as the rest of the world knows then, "right of centre") cry is more important than massive electricity bills and in some cases dying of hypothermia well... that's their call.As I discussed before, the modern GOP is rooted in culture war resentment rather than actual policy, with their policy goals boiling down to "whatever will make the left cry today."
Originally Posted by Montmorency:
Yang hasn't really demonstrated advantages in either domain.
Also, no offense, but ACIN, it's demeaning to New Yorkers to think that riding the subway makes anyone a man of the people. Almost literally everyone in NYC uses the subway at some point. Bloomberg famously rode the subway to work each day.
Uhh whatever he is doing seems to be working so far: https://www.scribd.com/document/4921...opline-1-20-21Yang hasn't really demonstrated advantages in either domain.
Also, no offense, but ACIN, it's demeaning to New Yorkers to think that riding the subway makes anyone a man of the people. Almost literally everyone in NYC uses the subway at some point. Bloomberg famously rode the subway to work each day.
One of the best fav/unfav ratio, ranked choice poll put him as the winner at over 60% in the 10th round.
Use of public transportation is not a sufficient criteria to be a man of the people, but it is a necessary one. It's not the only thing he pushes either, he is hitting up bodegas/bakeries (which I find the most boring of his content), speaking out against anti-Asian violence which seems to be an emerging NYC topic this past week and is asking for an independent investigation into Cuomo with an emphasis on believing the women's accounts.
Originally Posted by Montmorency:
Bloomberg famously rode the subway to work each day.
Always a caveat isn't there? https://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/01/n...omberg.html?hpBloomberg famously rode the subway to work each day.
Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name:
Uhh whatever he is doing seems to be working so far: https://www.scribd.com/document/4921...opline-1-20-21
One of the best fav/unfav ratio, ranked choice poll put him as the winner at over 60% in the 10th round.
Use of public transportation is not a sufficient criteria to be a man of the people, but it is a necessary one. It's not the only thing he pushes either, he is hitting up bodegas/bakeries (which I find the most boring of his content), speaking out against anti-Asian violence which seems to be an emerging NYC topic this past week and is asking for an independent investigation into Cuomo with an emphasis on believing the women's accounts.
None of that is distinguishing if you pause, but yeah, I showed you some of that favorable polling a few weeks ago IIRC (the one you linked is sponsored by Yang's campaign). In a couple months things should start getting properly settled in the rankings as the campaigns proper get underway, and we'll see how the major candidates stand. Remember, the NYC mayoral clowncar is ~ the 2019 Democratic primary clowncar.Uhh whatever he is doing seems to be working so far: https://www.scribd.com/document/4921...opline-1-20-21
One of the best fav/unfav ratio, ranked choice poll put him as the winner at over 60% in the 10th round.
Use of public transportation is not a sufficient criteria to be a man of the people, but it is a necessary one. It's not the only thing he pushes either, he is hitting up bodegas/bakeries (which I find the most boring of his content), speaking out against anti-Asian violence which seems to be an emerging NYC topic this past week and is asking for an independent investigation into Cuomo with an emphasis on believing the women's accounts.
...
Originally Posted by Montmorency:
Remember, the NYC mayoral clowncar is ~ the 2019 Democratic primary clowncar.
If you go by that analogy though, the front runner everyone expected to win ended up winning once the 6 'no-hopes' finally dropped out.Remember, the NYC mayoral clowncar is ~ the 2019 Democratic primary clowncar.
Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name:
If you go by that analogy though, the front runner everyone expected to win ended up winning once the 6 'no-hopes' finally dropped out.
You're confident Yang won't be the Sanders-analogue, or Harris-analogue, here? Needs more data.If you go by that analogy though, the front runner everyone expected to win ended up winning once the 6 'no-hopes' finally dropped out.
Whoa
Re: abolishing the filibuster:
Originally Posted by :
Manchin on Monday signaled growing frustration with questions about his position.
Asked if he might change his mind on the filibuster at some point, he turned around and yelled at reporters: “Never!”
“Jesus Christ! What don’t you understand about never?” he grumbled.
No bully pulpit will change this unless we somehow flip 2 more senate seats. And more relevant to the minimum wage, there might be no choice but to go to a lower number as Manchin wants. Or perhaps index it to the local cost of living.Manchin on Monday signaled growing frustration with questions about his position.
Asked if he might change his mind on the filibuster at some point, he turned around and yelled at reporters: “Never!”
“Jesus Christ! What don’t you understand about never?” he grumbled.
Joe Biden is turning out to be even weaker than I thought. Already he has backed off two of his campaign promises when the going got tough (the other being significant reduction of student loan debt).
First, the federal $15/hr minimum wage increase. Only twice in the last 25 years has an increase in wages been voted down:
https://ballotpedia.org/Minimum_wage_on_the_ballot
Of the ballot measures that did pass, only a handful did not recieve at least 60% of the vote. The most recent ballot in Florida calling for a raise to $15/hr, won by a 61 to 39 margin. For obvious reasons, wage increases are popular with working people.
Now we have a newly elected president being held hostage by one or two senators, despite making this statement on the campaign trail last year:
https://www.wwlp.com/news/biden-push...to-15-an-hour/
https://www.dailyposter.com/p/breaki...ows-how-harris
https://thehill.com/business-a-lobby...ng-the-minimum
So in a defininte walking back of a prime campaign promise, White House Chief of Staff had this to say:
Get the federal minimum wage increased to $15/hr, Joe Biden. PERIOD.
Geezus I hate politcs....
First, the federal $15/hr minimum wage increase. Only twice in the last 25 years has an increase in wages been voted down:
https://ballotpedia.org/Minimum_wage_on_the_ballot
Of the ballot measures that did pass, only a handful did not recieve at least 60% of the vote. The most recent ballot in Florida calling for a raise to $15/hr, won by a 61 to 39 margin. For obvious reasons, wage increases are popular with working people.
Now we have a newly elected president being held hostage by one or two senators, despite making this statement on the campaign trail last year:
https://www.wwlp.com/news/biden-push...to-15-an-hour/
Originally Posted by :
“Fifteen dollars should be a minimum wage in the United States of America. Period,” Biden said.
And then doubled down by posting this on his website:“Fifteen dollars should be a minimum wage in the United States of America. Period,” Biden said.
Originally Posted by :
As Vice President, Biden helped get state and local laws increasing the minimum wage across the finish line – including in New York State – and has supported eliminating the tipped minimum wage. He firmly believes all Americans are owed a raise, and it’s well past time we increase the federal minimum wage to $15 across the country. This increase would include workers who aren’t currently earning the minimum wage, like the farmworkers who grow our food and domestic workers who care for our aging and sick and for those with disabilities. As president, Biden will also support indexing the minimum wage to the median hourly wage so that low-wage workers’ wages keep up with those of middle income workers.
So instead of fighting to make good on a campaign promise, Biden and several Democratic senators are simply running up the white flag. The parliamentarian issue is an out right lie used by the Democrats:As Vice President, Biden helped get state and local laws increasing the minimum wage across the finish line – including in New York State – and has supported eliminating the tipped minimum wage. He firmly believes all Americans are owed a raise, and it’s well past time we increase the federal minimum wage to $15 across the country. This increase would include workers who aren’t currently earning the minimum wage, like the farmworkers who grow our food and domestic workers who care for our aging and sick and for those with disabilities. As president, Biden will also support indexing the minimum wage to the median hourly wage so that low-wage workers’ wages keep up with those of middle income workers.
https://www.dailyposter.com/p/breaki...ows-how-harris
Originally Posted by :
The development is not catastrophic for the $15 minimum wage provision — if Harris simply uses her power to ignore the opinion and clear the path for the measure she has long insisted she supports.
“It's been 12 years since we’ve raised the minimum wage, and if we’re going to make those promises, we have to be able to deliver on them,” Democratic Rep. Pramila Jayapal said Wednesday on MSNBC. “Because, I'll tell you what, in two years... when people vote in the midterms, you’re not gonna be able to say, ‘Well, I’m sorry, we couldn’t raise the minimum wage because the parliamentarian ruled that we couldn't do it.’ That's not gonna fly.”
It's been done in the past (ignoring the parliamentarian rule) and could be done now if Democrats had the balls to fight for what the people of America want. But Biden is starting to show his true corporate politicain colors by saying he respects the parliamentarian’s decision, partly due to pressure from business groups:The development is not catastrophic for the $15 minimum wage provision — if Harris simply uses her power to ignore the opinion and clear the path for the measure she has long insisted she supports.
“It's been 12 years since we’ve raised the minimum wage, and if we’re going to make those promises, we have to be able to deliver on them,” Democratic Rep. Pramila Jayapal said Wednesday on MSNBC. “Because, I'll tell you what, in two years... when people vote in the midterms, you’re not gonna be able to say, ‘Well, I’m sorry, we couldn’t raise the minimum wage because the parliamentarian ruled that we couldn't do it.’ That's not gonna fly.”
https://thehill.com/business-a-lobby...ng-the-minimum
So in a defininte walking back of a prime campaign promise, White House Chief of Staff had this to say:
Originally Posted by :
In an MSNBC interview on Wednesday, Klain said that if the parliamentarian advises Democrats against including the minimum wage hike, the White House will not want Democrats to move ahead with it. If Harris refuses to use her power, that decision could leave workers who are paid poverty wages and toiling in hazardous conditions during the pandemic to wait indefinitely for better pay.
What a bunch of crap. Now I'm no expert on Senate parliamentary procedures, but this seems to suggest, that if the Dems had any balls, they'd at least try this:In an MSNBC interview on Wednesday, Klain said that if the parliamentarian advises Democrats against including the minimum wage hike, the White House will not want Democrats to move ahead with it. If Harris refuses to use her power, that decision could leave workers who are paid poverty wages and toiling in hazardous conditions during the pandemic to wait indefinitely for better pay.
Originally Posted by :
“What would probably happen is a senator would appeal the ruling of the chair and then the full Senate would vote on whether to sustain the appeal,” it says. “The Chair’s ruling would be upheld as long as there are not 60 affirmative votes to sustain the appeal. So, if the majority could hold enough members together (less than 60 affirmative votes to sustain the appeal), the ruling that runs counter to the Parliamentarian’s advice would be upheld.”
The memo continues:“What would probably happen is a senator would appeal the ruling of the chair and then the full Senate would vote on whether to sustain the appeal,” it says. “The Chair’s ruling would be upheld as long as there are not 60 affirmative votes to sustain the appeal. So, if the majority could hold enough members together (less than 60 affirmative votes to sustain the appeal), the ruling that runs counter to the Parliamentarian’s advice would be upheld.”
Originally Posted by :
The same memo also warns against Harris accepting the parliamentarian’s advice and Senate Democrats then pretending to push for the new minimum wage as part of the deliberations. In that situation, the memo suggests Democrats would be setting the minimum wage measure up for defeat.
“If in the same scenario, the chair followed the parliamentarian’s advice (and) a senator from the majority party (in favor of the provision at issue) were to appeal that ruling, then it would also take 60 affirmative votes to overturn the chair’s ruling,” says the memo. “Thus, the majority would be in a weaker position by doing it this way, because they would need to muster 60 affirmative votes to overturn the chair.”
So instead of fighting tooth-and-nail, even if you lose in the end, you can point to specific members of your own party and hold them accountable for the debacle (ie Manchin and Sinema). The voters of America don't give a damn that you are "fighting our guts out" to get a scandal-plagued nominee (Neera Tanden) appointed to the Office of Management and Budget.The same memo also warns against Harris accepting the parliamentarian’s advice and Senate Democrats then pretending to push for the new minimum wage as part of the deliberations. In that situation, the memo suggests Democrats would be setting the minimum wage measure up for defeat.
“If in the same scenario, the chair followed the parliamentarian’s advice (and) a senator from the majority party (in favor of the provision at issue) were to appeal that ruling, then it would also take 60 affirmative votes to overturn the chair’s ruling,” says the memo. “Thus, the majority would be in a weaker position by doing it this way, because they would need to muster 60 affirmative votes to overturn the chair.”
Get the federal minimum wage increased to $15/hr, Joe Biden. PERIOD.
Geezus I hate politcs....
Except that Manchin doesnt give a 
about Harris overruling the Parliamentarian. He won't vote for a $15 minimum wage. It would be a poison pill that destroys the Covid relief bill because where would the 50th vote come from? Romney? Yes, its insanely frustrating that one or two senators hold so much power but that's how it is, and no amount of ranting will change that.
Also did he back off student debt forgiveness? IIRC, he campaigned on forgiveness of up to $10k and it appears he is sticking to that.
about Harris overruling the Parliamentarian. He won't vote for a $15 minimum wage. It would be a poison pill that destroys the Covid relief bill because where would the 50th vote come from? Romney? Yes, its insanely frustrating that one or two senators hold so much power but that's how it is, and no amount of ranting will change that. Also did he back off student debt forgiveness? IIRC, he campaigned on forgiveness of up to $10k and it appears he is sticking to that.
Originally Posted by :
Except that Manchin doesnt give a about Harris overruling the Parliamentarian. He won't vote for a $15 minimum wage.
I realize this. Correct me if I'm wrong: Bernie puts the $15/hr raise in the bill, and it gets voted down. Now you can point to all who voted against it, including Manchin and Sinema (if she follows suit), and say these Congresspeople don't want to make life better for Americans. Then you go back, remove it from the bill, and hold another vote where the bill likely passes.Except that Manchin doesnt give a
about Harris overruling the Parliamentarian. He won't vote for a $15 minimum wage.Otherwise you give Republicans the ammunition to hammer you about reneging on a campaign promise, and they can even diss Bernie for not even putting it in in the first place. Seems to me to be a lose-lose course to take. Even worse, you open the door to the possibility of the GOP getting their own bill (Josh Hawley's) onto the floor:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/sarahha...llar-companies
It's also painfully obvious, that Manchin doesn't give a
about VP Harris, Joe Biden, or anyone else but himself. So put the bill to a vote with the $15/hr minimum wage included, let his vote be logged as a nay, then let him answer to his own constituents who I'm sure would gladly welcome a raise. Democrats are just effing stupid.....
Originally Posted by :
Also did he back off student debt forgiveness? IIRC, he campaigned on forgiveness of up to $10k and it appears he is sticking to that.
What he said was this:Also did he back off student debt forgiveness? IIRC, he campaigned on forgiveness of up to $10k and it appears he is sticking to that.
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...rican-students
Originally Posted by :
For the record, he campaigned on two distinct planks. One: “immediate” cancellation of $10,000 for every borrower as a form of Covid relief. Two: the cancellation of all undergraduate student loans for debt-holders who attended public universities and HBCUs and who earn up to $125,000 a year. Keeping these two promises is the absolute minimum the Biden administration needs to do to keep the public’s trust.
And that whole town hall thing was a rambling disaster, IMHO....For the record, he campaigned on two distinct planks. One: “immediate” cancellation of $10,000 for every borrower as a form of Covid relief. Two: the cancellation of all undergraduate student loans for debt-holders who attended public universities and HBCUs and who earn up to $125,000 a year. Keeping these two promises is the absolute minimum the Biden administration needs to do to keep the public’s trust.
Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai:
I realize this. Correct me if I'm wrong: Bernie puts the $15/hr raise in the bill, and it gets voted down. Now you can point to all who voted against it, including Manchin and Sinema (if she follows suit), and say these Congresspeople don't want to make life better for Americans. Then you go back, remove it from the bill, and hold another vote where the bill likely passes.
Theoretically its a fine plan, but I dont think it will work because Manchin doesnt really care about such messaging. He would laugh at a campaign aimed at him about his $15 minimum wage vote. I realize this. Correct me if I'm wrong: Bernie puts the $15/hr raise in the bill, and it gets voted down. Now you can point to all who voted against it, including Manchin and Sinema (if she follows suit), and say these Congresspeople don't want to make life better for Americans. Then you go back, remove it from the bill, and hold another vote where the bill likely passes.
Or perhaps instead of antagonizing him in a move that won't have the desired effect anyways, we could try again on another bill that Manchin really wants like an infrastructure bill. Just my two cents.
Originally Posted by :
we could try again on another bill that Manchin really wants like an infrastructure bill.
You do that anyway. I would not underestimate how the folks of W. Virginia might feel. All the BS rhetoric about upholding a parliamentary procedure put in place by a long-dead W. Virginia senator, pales when compared to the financial hardships they are facing...as the recent Harris interview at WSAZ-TV shows. I'm sure he already po'd by that very interview. we could try again on another bill that Manchin really wants like an infrastructure bill.
And besides, who's the president? Biden or Manchin? Middle-of-the-Road Joe Biden better stop kissing his ass, and start playing hard-ball, or this crap will just continue. My 2 cents....
Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai:
All the BS rhetoric about upholding a parliamentary procedure put in place by a long-dead W. Virginia senator, pales when compared to the financial hardships they are facing...
Manchin thinks he is working in those people's interest. He probably believes that a $15 minimum wage would decimate rural small businesses. I saw the recent poll that a majority in WV want a $15 so he is obviously wrong, but its what he believes and he clearly isnt going to budge. Biden isn't a king and the bully pulpit has limitations as we clearly see.All the BS rhetoric about upholding a parliamentary procedure put in place by a long-dead W. Virginia senator, pales when compared to the financial hardships they are facing...
Originally Posted by Hooahguy:
Manchin thinks he is working in those people's interest. He probably believes that a $15 minimum wage would decimate rural small businesses. I saw the recent poll that a majority in WV want a $15 so he is obviously wrong, but its what he believes and he clearly isnt going to budge. Biden isn't a king and the bully pulpit has limitations as we clearly see.
Manchin's worries on small businesses and the $15 minimum are not without some support. Though overall views are mixed.Manchin thinks he is working in those people's interest. He probably believes that a $15 minimum wage would decimate rural small businesses. I saw the recent poll that a majority in WV want a $15 so he is obviously wrong, but its what he believes and he clearly isnt going to budge. Biden isn't a king and the bully pulpit has limitations as we clearly see.
Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh:
Manchin's worries on small businesses and the $15 minimum are not without some support. Though overall views are mixed.
Look, this obsession with small business has driven policy so far off course. We all like the idea of mom and pop shops, but that doesn't mean we should give them carte blanche to treat their employees in a substandard way. Manchin's worries on small businesses and the $15 minimum are not without some support. Though overall views are mixed.
There are plenty of benefits we can implement that scale with size and scope to make small and medium business more competitive with the big players. Allowing them to pay poverty wages is not one of them.
Originally Posted by :
Biden isn't a king and the bully pulpit has limitations as we clearly see.
This isn't about being a king, it's about sending a message to Manchin. If he wants to flex his newfound gravitas to block legislation that the majority of US citizens want, and that was a major campaign promise made by Democrats, then he will be called out every single time. You keep saying Biden should wait for some nebulous transportation bill that Manchin has a strong interest in to attach a minimum wage amendment. Who's to say that any such bill comes along (and likely too late to benefit Americans in immediate need or Democratic power), and who's to say if it comes to a parliamentary issue again, that Manchin won't vote the same way?Biden isn't a king and the bully pulpit has limitations as we clearly see.
I'll make you a friendly .org wager: Sometime in the next two years (presuming the Dems don't get some watered down version of their own), the Republicans come up with their own minimum wage bill that gets passed, therefore putting a nail in the coffin of Democratic control of both houses of Congress. I've already referenced one by Josh Hawley....JOSH HAWLEY for gods sake! The wager: a $50 contribution to the ORG.
Originally Posted by :
Though overall views are mixed.
So depending on the accuracy of that:Though overall views are mixed.
Originally Posted by :
As the above graphic depicts, the vast majority of small business owners support the $15 minimum wage increase, with only 17 percent opposing it. Yet 15.4 percent are unsure if they endorse the policy or not, which might be directly attributed to some owners not even being aware of the new policy.
[...]it's notable that 67.6 percent of small business owners are supportive of a change that will cost them several extra dollars an hour.
As the above graphic depicts, the vast majority of small business owners support the $15 minimum wage increase, with only 17 percent opposing it. Yet 15.4 percent are unsure if they endorse the policy or not, which might be directly attributed to some owners not even being aware of the new policy.
[...]it's notable that 67.6 percent of small business owners are supportive of a change that will cost them several extra dollars an hour.
Originally Posted by :
A combined 41.8 percent of small business owners indicated that the $15 minimum wage hike will either be "great" or make things "slightly better" for their small business. In comparison, only 27.4 percent of poll participants believed the policy change will make things either "slightly worse" or "very bad" for their operation.
In terms of those who think the impact will be negative, we proposed a follow-up question that asked them if they think their small business will survive.
These results were not as encouraging. Despite 38.69 percent of respondents thinking their small business will survive, 18.25 percent believe it will not, and 43.07 percent lack the confidence to make a decision either way.
Meh...business owners deciding on whether to grant a wage increase is never a good thing, IMHO.A combined 41.8 percent of small business owners indicated that the $15 minimum wage hike will either be "great" or make things "slightly better" for their small business. In comparison, only 27.4 percent of poll participants believed the policy change will make things either "slightly worse" or "very bad" for their operation.
In terms of those who think the impact will be negative, we proposed a follow-up question that asked them if they think their small business will survive.
These results were not as encouraging. Despite 38.69 percent of respondents thinking their small business will survive, 18.25 percent believe it will not, and 43.07 percent lack the confidence to make a decision either way.
Better to look at what's happened in places that have already raised minimum wages, some significantly:
https://www.yahoo.com/now/happened-p...194711258.html
The dire consequences the naysayers to wage increases, haven't been borne out by the facts....
Thread Ratings provided by
Thread Ratings (Lite) -
vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2025 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2025 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2025 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO