Mass Effect 17er [Game Thread]

[dyachei]

Two things: I feel like the threadstate feels more comfortable than it should be? By this, I mean confidence level in particular when considering that post a while ago where someone had an "all mafia are within these group of people" which felt rather pre-emptive simply due to the amount of stuff we've had so far this game!!!

Quick question to everyone in the thread: if you were wrong about a read, which read do you think you have wrong? One of your more confident reads, not your nulls!!

you

after anni, I'm probably calling you a villa lean too easily

[ColonelLubriderm]

Two things: I feel like the threadstate feels more comfortable than it should be? By this, I mean confidence level in particular when considering that post a while ago where someone had an "all mafia are within these group of people" which felt rather pre-emptive simply due to the amount of stuff we've had so far this game!!!

Quick question to everyone in the thread: if you were wrong about a read, which read do you think you have wrong? One of your more confident reads, not your nulls!!

sunbae

[GeneralHankerchief]

dya, any thoughts on Colonel now that you know he's bop?

Two things: I feel like the threadstate feels more comfortable than it should be? By this, I mean confidence level in particular when considering that post a while ago where someone had an "all mafia are within these group of people" which felt rather pre-emptive simply due to the amount of stuff we've had so far this game!!!

Quick question to everyone in the thread: if you were wrong about a read, which read do you think you have wrong? One of your more confident reads, not your nulls!!

If I'm wrong about a confident townread: you

If I'm wrong about a scumread: Dolby

[Zack]

Raskolnikov is replacing Ampharos effective immediately.

Don't discuss substitutions and so forth

[GeneralHankerchief]

Raskolnikov is replacing Ampharos effective immediately.

Don't discuss substitutions and so forth

Welcome Rask!

Also I notably misread Rask the last game we were in together so I'm not sure how helpful I'll be here.

[Cuthillius]

Two things: I feel like the threadstate feels more comfortable than it should be? By this, I mean confidence level in particular when considering that post a while ago where someone had an "all mafia are within these group of people" which felt rather pre-emptive simply due to the amount of stuff we've had so far this game!!!

Quick question to everyone in the thread: if you were wrong about a read, which read do you think you have wrong? One of your more confident reads, not your nulls!!

I disagree, I don't think there's been a general consensus to any degree approaching that of rocks; while individual people have said they think all the wolves are within a specific pool I haven't gotten the impression that there are many people who are general blind spots or that people's reads are lining up to an unusual or unhealthy degree.

The village read I'm most uncertain about is probably Eph, because I think he deserves more credit than he gets for his play, but I have a lot of people who are still fairly unsorted and I don't think I've really forced myself to come to any conclusions consciously or subconsciously this game so I'm both pretty happy with where I'm at in terms of town reads and think there's plenty of wiggle room.

[dyachei]

dya, any thoughts on Colonel now that you know he's bop?



If I'm wrong about a confident townread: you

If I'm wrong about a scumread: Dolby

no but it makes sense?

did you forget me or did he?

[GeneralHankerchief]

no but it makes sense?

did you forget me or did he?

I forgot to put you in the readslist, he's the one who pointed it out.

You asked if Colonel was bop earlier so I assume that impacted your thoughts on the matter. How does it make sense, specifically?

[Arapocalypse]

You remembered within 1 minute and made a show of it

You got duped by the avatars; Bop reminded him, not GH!!!

[Csargo]

Heyo Rask!

[ColonelLubriderm]

[Arapocalypse]

I disagree, I don't think there's been a general consensus to any degree approaching that of rocks; while individual people have said they think all the wolves are within a specific pool I haven't gotten the impression that there are many people who are general blind spots or that people's reads are lining up to an unusual or unhealthy degree.

The village read I'm most uncertain about is probably Eph, because I think he deserves more credit than he gets for his play, but I have a lot of people who are still fairly unsorted and I don't think I've really forced myself to come to any conclusions consciously or subconsciously this game so I'm both pretty happy with where I'm at in terms of town reads and think there's plenty of wiggle room.

I wasn't actually thinking about Rocks when I was making this post; not something that happens often!!

Regardless, I'm not really talking about an overall consensus, though I guess there's been a bit of that? Feels like just a lot of individual confidence that might become an issue later on!!!

Personally, I wouldn't be overly surprised to see any of my reads being wrong, except maybe... Dolby? Quite possibly Sunbae too, with his recent posts!!

[dyachei]

I forgot to put you in the readslist, he's the one who pointed it out.

You asked if Colonel was bop earlier so I assume that impacted your thoughts on the matter. How does it make sense, specifically?

with who would be parodying you that well. And keeping it up to some degree. and I usually read bop in later days. like when he isn't dead on d3

[Cuthillius]

I wasn't actually thinking about Rocks when I was making this post; not something that happens often!!

Regardless, I'm not really talking about an overall consensus, though I guess there's been a bit of that? Feels like just a lot of individual confidence that might become an issue later on!!!

Personally, I wouldn't be overly surprised to see any of my reads being wrong, except maybe... Dolby? Quite possibly Sunbae too, with his recent posts!!

I'm more wondering if you feel like individual people are solidifying worlds at a faster rate than you'd expect. My impression has been a lot of the people who tend to jump to conclusions have been doing so, but it's not a thread-wide thing nor do I feel like people who don't tend to lock in on specific PoEs early are doing so at a higher rate or vice versa.

[Ephemeral]

Two things: I feel like the threadstate feels more comfortable than it should be? By this, I mean confidence level in particular when considering that post a while ago where someone had an "all mafia are within these group of people" which felt rather pre-emptive simply due to the amount of stuff we've had so far this game!!!

Quick question to everyone in the thread: if you were wrong about a read, which read do you think you have wrong? One of your more confident reads, not your nulls!!

on one of my stronger villa leans, probably dolby

on one of my wolves, probably manti

[GeneralHankerchief]

I've skimmed Csargo's iso in both of the recent games I've played with him (we were town in both). I've linked them here before, but will do so again:
- Generic Fantasy Mafia (the .Org, December 2019)
- Red John Mafia (CFC section of MU, September 2020)

In Red John, Csar is quite townie out of the gate and I was able to read him as such pretty much the entire way through (minus a quick hiccup on my end that was quickly corrected), and then he eventually dunked on a flawed claim by the penultimate mafia late on in the game to seal the correct chop. Not seeing a lot of that here, but he also subbed in on D2 (which I did not remember before this) so he did have a base of data to already form reads with.

The more instructive iso, IMO, is Generic Fantasy. He was in from the start, it's a somewhat similar playerlist, it took place on the .Org, etc. The depths of his reads in Generic Fantasy are closer to what they are here than in Red John, but still not entirely the same. Here's an example of some of his larger, "view from 10,000 feet" posts early in the game for both:

Generic Fantasy:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I'm still reading through the thread, I've had a busy few days, but my impressions so far:

Zack's opening was strong, but that's to be expected, Zack's a strong player. I'm hesitant to prematurely say he's town, but everything points in that direction. He spews sunshine and rainbows.

Empoof seems in a similar vein to Zack, nothing gives me pause about their play so far. Though I'm not familiar with Empoof's play in general, but from my perspective it's all been good so far.

I'm okay with merl1n, Insaner, and Logic overall. I don't particularly think Insaner's "I'm townier, answer my question." was productive, but to each their own. Other than that I haven't read anything from Insaner that would make me think negatively. merl1n just seems pure and engaged, it's refreshing, nothing negative to say about any of their contributions honestly. Logic's opening was meh, but his recent postings were pretty good I thought, and that makes me think he's town.

I agree with Zack's meta read of Barto's behavior, generally I'd expect Barto to vote Insaner there. It probably doesn't mean much, but it seemed cautious to me, which is unexpected from Barto. I might be reading too much into it though.

GH's opening bothered me initially, a bit generic maybe? or just fell flat with me I'm not sure exactly how to describe it. Plus his interaction with Zack about Insaner seemed odd to me. I generally agree with what he posted this morning, so I'm a bit torn overall about how to feel.

Monty is an enigma. I'm not sure how to feel about him currently.

I don't have much else, but I'll continue reading.

This game:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I don't really have strong thoughts on very many people. I think Visor/Dolby are performing below my expectations of them, judging by past experience. They're usually more obviously town, pretty quickly, so I think they're underwhelming at present.

I'm thinking that pzelda is probably town, because the thoughts and how he's processing people are eerily similar to last game.

I think Esooa, GH, Hally, you, and Cuth are okay.

The rest I don't have particularly strong thoughts either way on.

pzelda>Esooa>GH>Cuth,you, Hally.

I can't really explain the zelda read any better. Other than from last game to this game looks the same to me, so I don't think it's hard to infer that zelda's probably town here. I don't have much to say about the other's that I haven't already said somewhere else.

Cuth, Ara, Hally are just people I felt okay with from skimming the thread, I don't really have anything to point to, to say why exactly. Just that they were people who seemed good to me. I don't want to think about it too much tbh.

I don't understand your second question if I'm honest. Dolby's usually pretty clear-cut and has well thought-out insights regarding the game. This just looks really messy to me. I dunno, it's not really that good of an argument, but ~

There's just less confidence, less depth overall. It could be partially explained by different life situations between then and now, a different gamestate/way things are shaping up (for starters, I do not believe this game will be nearly as easy as Generic Fantasy, which was a town stomp), anything really... or it could be because he's mafia. It's not fully damning, but it's not something I can entirely ignore and sweep under the rug either.

CONCLUSION: I'm fine with Csargo going in the POE. I'll still feel kinda bad about it, but yeah.

[Raskolnikov]

Heya folks.

I will try to read the thread overnight so just stop posting till I am done OK?

[Raskolnikov]

Heyo Rask!

Welcome Rask!

Also I notably misread Rask the last game we were in together so I'm not sure how helpful I'll be here.

Last time we played, you were scums and yeeted me! (hydra game 1)
but yeah, in that Red John game, I think we both misread each other!

Anyway, feels good to be here, just need to get used to this forum again.

[Hally]

@Hally

updated thoughts on amy?

i don’t really have any. her later posts didn’t do anything for me and still leave me feeling like something is missing, but i dunno how much irl stuff is contributing to that

[Hally]

@Ampharos

Do you think it's fair of me to read this post and contrast it to the "Sunbae says nice things but he can be doing that as scum and nothing is alignment indicative" post from earlier and be confused?

To me it's come off as if you've started the game from a "posting well isn't alignment indicative" mindset that's approaching things with skepticism and hesitancy and now have shifted to a general "Eh, I'll give town reads to those that are active and figure out any deep scum later" laid back mindset. While I think both mindsets are totally fine and reasonable (I'm personally a big believer in the second one a lot of the time) I'm just a bit confused about what caused the shift between the two.

Secondary question: Can you elaborate a bit on the "p much" portion? That makes it sound like you specifically have an active poster that you don't feel is towny but I could be reading into it too much.

i like this take a lot

[Cuthillius]

hi hally

how do you feel about *waves hands*

[dyachei]

i don’t really have any. her later posts didn’t do anything for me and still leave me feeling like something is missing, but i dunno how much irl stuff is contributing to that

what is the difference for you between the amy slot and my slot?

you seem to be voting me but allowing for irl stuff for amy slot

[Hally]

Good morning,
It will take me some time to post everything I want, but let me share my thoughts on Csargo. I feel like Csargo's posts and opinions might be towny despite being awkward. If you follow his posts, they're very much influenced by what had been overall atmosphere in the thread before the post. I think that as wolf he would be more out of touch (also, that's why I don't tr Monty's contrarian takes).

ime the opposite tends to be true? i find wolves are more in tune with the pulse of the thread because they’re trying to blend in and ingratiate themselves to the village whereas villagers are more likely to do their own thing because they’re just trying to solve and don’t care how it looks. it’s also highly player and context dependent but as general rule i think you have it backwards

[Zack]

Official Tally as of #893

3 Csargo (Sunbae, Arapocalypse, ColonelLubriderm)
3 dyachei (Raskolnikov [formerly Ampharos], Ephemeral, Hally)

2 pzelda (Montmorency, Dolby)
2 Raskolnikov [formerly Ampharos] (Visor, pzelda)

1 Cuthillius (Maple)
1 Dolby (Csargo)
1 Ephemeral (GeneralHankerchief)
1 GeneralHankerchief (Cuthillius)
1 Maple (Esooa)

Not Voting: dyachei, Manasi

[Hally]

dolby and monty wolf reading capage is baffling to me lol

[Hally]

I think that his posts being more disruptive than anything else is enough to have him as a sr. There are two more concrete reasons. His votes are going completely against the consensus. They have no chance of succeeding and, in case of Hally, he had no good reason. In case of his vote on me, his reasoning was vaguer than I would like it to be. Also, I disliked his meta shade on GH. I admit his newer posts are better constructed, but I haven't find anything 100% towny in them yet (I admit I skimmed over spoilered parts).

point of order: monty thought i was someone else (hallia) and i think was voting me as an rvs thing because he thought he knew me. i didn’t interpret that vote on me as serious

[Hally]

@Esooa talk about cuth? earlier you were voting him and seemed like you wolf read him but then you put him as null in your reads list. what changed?

[Csargo]

I've skimmed Csargo's iso in both of the recent games I've played with him (we were town in both). I've linked them here before, but will do so again:
- Generic Fantasy Mafia (the .Org, December 2019)
- Red John Mafia (CFC section of MU, September 2020)

In Red John, Csar is quite townie out of the gate and I was able to read him as such pretty much the entire way through (minus a quick hiccup on my end that was quickly corrected), and then he eventually dunked on a flawed claim by the penultimate mafia late on in the game to seal the correct chop. Not seeing a lot of that here, but he also subbed in on D2 (which I did not remember before this) so he did have a base of data to already form reads with.

The more instructive iso, IMO, is Generic Fantasy. He was in from the start, it's a somewhat similar playerlist, it took place on the .Org, etc. The depths of his reads in Generic Fantasy are closer to what they are here than in Red John, but still not entirely the same. Here's an example of some of his larger, "view from 10,000 feet" posts early in the game for both:

Generic Fantasy:


This game:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

There's just less confidence, less depth overall. It could be partially explained by different life situations between then and now, a different gamestate/way things are shaping up (for starters, I do not believe this game will be nearly as easy as Generic Fantasy, which was a town stomp), anything really... or it could be because he's mafia. It's not fully damning, but it's not something I can entirely ignore and sweep under the rug either.

CONCLUSION: I'm fine with Csargo going in the POE. I'll still feel kinda bad about it, but yeah.

I have neither the time nor the desire to invest the time necessary to get in-depth views of everyone today. I don't feel like my reads here are far off what I had in Visor's game, probably a lot less confidence here then there for experience reasons. I'm just trying to be casual tbh.

I have yet to fully delve into a few people CL, Eph, Sunbae, Monty, Maple. I thought CL and Sunbae were fine, they were good enough to not consider today anyways.

I did look over dya and I'm not sure why people want to yeet there. Is there something I'm missing here? I feel like dya's approach to the game is more townie than not imo. I feel like there's a lot of points where they could have easily acquiesced to requests, but just sort of did their own thing. Is that just something they'd do as either alignment? I don't feel like it's that bad honestly. I guess a lot of people have dya in their PoE, but I don't know if they're serious reads or just putting dya in a box for activity/effort/etc reasons.

[Sunbae]

dolby and monty wolf reading capage is baffling to me lol

I've shifted from "yeah pZelda is an obvious town" to "I think pZelda is town but I'm going to keep an eye on it because two of the people from this site (and therefore I assume the most experience with pZelda) are scumreading them". It just seems to me like something I should pay attention to.

As for other notes:

GH's pulls of Csargo posts from other games and conclusions make me continue to feel good voting there. That makes two people with experience with Csargo coming up with scumleans on the slot and I think that fits with my individual takes + my general worlview at the current time.

One tiny thing I honed in on Dolbys wall was how in one paragraph they mentioned they "Melded with Hally again" while in another paragraph saying it was news to them that Hally was a town read of theirs earlier. It might not mean much but I thought it was noteworthy as the "again" section makes it sound like they had earlier melded with Hally whereas the second line makes it sound like they never thought they did. Just seemed off to me but I think it could just be a misunderstanding on my end. I thought the rest of the wall was alright.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Sunbae, any thoughts on my Eph case?