Mass Effect 17er [Game Thread]

[Maple]

small point but i remember thinking this sequence was vaguely not w/w with ara? just because i feel like if dya was gonna v read a teammate they would be better about keeping their reasoning straight and not forget it 15 min after they say it, whereas forgetting their read on a villager is more likely because they don’t expect to be questioned on it as much?

but this feels kinda convoluted now that i actually type it out

i see what youre thinking

maybe

[Hally]

if anyone has a wackadoo ass claim that might get them lynched in xylo today is a good day to out it

hard claim wackadoo ass

[Maple]

vote: hally

i cc

[Hally]

vote: hally

i cc

[Maple]

sort by postcount says monty manasi pray

[Cuthillius]

i got a little block of pecorino romano the other day

it has so much flavor

whenever i need a little pick-me-up i go and slice off a thin strip, just enough to get all the taste

and the flavor sticks around for quite a while, too

good value

[Visor]

Pecorino romano goat
@Montmorency

Thoughts on the game?

[Zack]

Official Tally as of #2707

1 Cuthillius (Esooa)
1 Esooa (Visor)
1 Hally (Maple)
1 Manasi (Hally)

Not Voting: Arapocalypse, ColonelLubriderm, Cuthillius, Manasi, Montmorency

[Cuthillius]

Attachment 24387

hally posted a panda gif and i wanted to post one too that also accurately conveyed my feelings about getting into this game and kinda forgetting about it after a 5 pm gamestart and only showing up the following morning, but the forum has a bizarre system that technically makes sense but isn't actually good in any way so i had to repost it

this should work for default theme

smh manti

hi hally!

notlikethis.png

last game hally said "note to self pocket cuth with otters next time i'm wolf"

I do think that he played up the "high expectations" a ton, while he absolutely does have a Reputation it was more a defense against "we know we're not going to survive that long so let's try to dunk on as many villagers as we can first and oh damn people are catching on". So while there's a grain of truth in there, I don't think that the specifics of this read hold up entirely? That said it is somewhat more aggressive than I'd expect, though I could see that coming from either side, so shrug.

this was in response to ara saying that gh would be less tryhardy as a villager and would meme around more, particularly after how high the expectations were on him in team game

there him saying "high expectations" was basically "get off my back i'm not wolfy you guys just think i'm omegatown mcgee because i have a trophy" and then he just openwolfed in terms of pushes etc

wanted to clarify because i was in the same teamchat and i didn't know if other people who were just reading from the outside actually thought gh was usually that upset when people expected higher standards of him

while i've seen that dynamic play out in other games, the mentor one in particular, i don't think it's anywhere near as big of a deal as he made it out to be when he was using it as a shield

and as such i didn't think he'd necessarily feel that he needed to daisy around to relax and destress as a villager specifically

I like your reads, so I'll ignore you posting the otter after what you said last game and v-read you, ok?

pls let me in

in response to hally saying alliance w/ eph/sunbae/dolby/ara, i had all but dolby as pretty strong villagers for that point in the game

eph for his mindset, i thought it was possible he was hamming it up as a wolf and getting excited to dig in but it wasn't at all performative really like i'd expect from eph

sunbae for toan, but legitimately good toan

ara for making generally solid posts and matching up perfectly with the v!ara i've seen recently

This is not an incorrect take, but it's, like, worst case scenario in my head? The conclusion is reasonable based on the logic but I... don't think it follows naturally and I'm not a huge fan of the reads.

I'm actively trying to make sure I don't just v-read eph for having more WIM and obvious thought ITT than the last few games, but I do actually think he's been villagery independently of that and it's not quite his default mode as a wolf, which I think he'd tend towards more in this sort of list.

response to gh, i felt like he was reading way more than natural into eph's posts, and it felt similar to the way he handled a couple of people in team mafia game in terms of constructing a narrative where it wasn't warranted or necessary

the points were valid, but he went like five stations farther on the train of thought than really made sense at the time

This is the cherry on top of Hally's push on GH in terms of how good it looks for them.

it's not that hally doesn't push people as a wolf, but they don't just gleefully dumpster on people nearly as often, especially not people as intimidating as gh

they'd absolutely get up in someone's face if they think it's a good push, but this felt extremely v!hally

haha you fool I started on the third paragraph

i'd Actually be v-reading gh if he was posting from both accounts

this actually sort of happened over the course of the game-- gh got a bit more casual and bop got a bit more serious, and they both got much more villagery

Wolf!GH, from my limited experience, tends to double down on the stuff he knows he's good at-- making reasonable posts and cases and generating reads, rather than just flipping over into shiptoasting. To put it a different way, I think his lackingness as a wolf and a villager exist on two different axes, which isn't always the case for people.

on esooa saying that gh being way more tryhardy than everyone else was super villagery because burnout

and i was saying i think gh can be tryhardy as a wolf because it's easier than the alternative in terms of strategy and play

like, this sort of read construction and whatnot is very much in his wheelhouse, making words sound good and putting together stories is easy, and i think he often leans on this to make up for missing tone in other respects as a wolf

i actually thought this was ColonelLubriderm posting smh

this was what we call a "joke" to insert some much-needed levity into the thread

i

didn't read that as visor saying amy was v?

hally's train of thought here was legitimately villagery, for the record

The "amusingly self-deprecating" tier:

Cuthillius

The "seems very villagery and if so will be painfully obvious by EoD2 at the latest" tier:

Esooa
Hally
Sunbae

The "feel familiarly villagery in a way that makes me happy but isn't actually very coherent in my mind" tier:

Arapocalypse
Ephemeral

The "makes me question if I have a microchip implanted in my mind to sponge thoughts from my future self so he can pocket me" tier:

Visor

The "my friends are v-reading him so I feel like I should too" tier:

Dolby

The "if they're wolves they're doing a great job of hiding it, but the same applies to them if v" tier:

Csargo
Montmorency
pzelda
Manasi
ColonelLubriderm
dyachei
Maple

The "prepare to be spitroasted" tier:

GeneralHankerchief
Ampharos

i mostly read esooa v for the comments on her approach to this game after team mafia, and i felt like her play lines up a lot with what i'd expect if she was in that state of mind coming in

that said until today i haven't seen much of what i really consider the hallmarks of esooa as a villager, which are the longer trains of thought and deep dives of analysis

my hesitation there recently has largely been due to

not specifically the dropoff but like some level of disengagement, and not the sort of fiery close-up pushing and pulling the fabric of the thread that i've seen from her several times now and i think is lacking at least in depth when she's w

hally had good reads and good pushes

visor just said things i was thinking about before i had a chance to say them at a ridiculously high rate d1

gh/amy i'm about to make a post about so i'll save that for then

use the avatar i made for you you goon

manti smh

I've never seen an image more accurately describe Low Effort Invitational.

flight rising wholesome

vote: Ampharos

amy just sort of crashed into the thread and had not amazing takes, i wanted to get on the train with visor before it got really popular and it did feel like it was actually effortful enough compared to how bad it was that it was squarely in the sort of thing i expect from not entirely engaged w!amy

I'd be curious to hear your thoughts from this angle on GH specifically.

directed towards sunbae wrt how people's perceptions of people are affected by recently played games; especially given that gh just played two wolf games with a lot of people from this playerlist

Ara, your definition of "TWTBAW" seems... gauged on a much more sensitive scale than usual, so I'm not sure what to do with those reads? Like, usually I'm used to people applying that read to people who are doing things that just splash into the thread in a very wolfy way, but you seem to be saying "these things are slightly >rand w and I don't think this person would do that many slightly >rand w things so they're probably town". Does that make sense?

Also, why am I a villager?

mafia philosophy

i wanted to make sure this was just a difference of how we apply terminology, which it was

i thought there was a world where it was like sloppy in the wrong kind of way, but her response checked out and seemed internally coherent

not that i think this is necessarily the sort of read you apply if you're trying to subtly boost fellow wolves, but like i said i wanted to understand what was going on inside her head

Visor, where's your head at on our good colonel?

there was not a lot of discussion about bop, he was generally in people's nulls, i thought he was the most likely strong skate-y wolf

yeppers

i read that string of posts when i was catching up this morning and was debating in my head about whether or not to talk about them

and then i saw visor had the same impression and was like sick i don't have to use my words

but i agree wholeheartedly

i don't think that teasing away strong early reads is Wolfy, i don't think that hally and eph are bad reads to have, i don't think criticizing people calling out gh for tryharding is Wrong

i do think they are weird things to do, and the last one is particularly soapbox-y

but it all feels like she's going through the motions and i really don't like the reaction to visor

this was after gh posted his case on amy, and summarized a lot of my concerns pretty well

that said, it was also based on a fairly small base of content and i was still pretty hesitant on gh; this push was a large part of why i switched over to gh later

i felt like there was a very plausible world where gh was making a very reasonable and justifiable case, but he'd made ones that i didn't like nearly as much and i was worried about momentum swinging over that way too far and it didn't feel like a partner-y thing

incorrect i am the odd night tracker

reference to rocks for the 1.5 players in this game who weren't in that one and/or didn't read it

very clever

vote: GeneralHankerchief

already explained the reasoning for this one

i saw the lack of bold right after i posted it but didn't fix because i was about to take a nap and figured that the Statement inherent in the post was enough to get my point across

nothing to say about pzelda

you're there because you made a few posts that read well emotionally (i know people hate this sort of read because emotions aren't something you're supposed to read people off of but i don't care) early on and i feel pretty good about how your approach has lined up with those specific feelings

gh and amy are both the sort of players who sound reasonable and present plausible logical arguments no matter what they're doing, but i dislike the angles they've taken with their reads and where they've engaged to a degree, and neither has presented a lot of Caring about their reads or state in the game at this point

which is just me trying to find slightly different words than the ones i used talking to visor just now-- essentially, both feel like they are Making Points but lacking in the depth and subtleties that i expect to see from them as villagers

i'm not smitten with gh's swap onto amy and i wanted to give amy some space after her posts just now (i don't think they sway the needle entirely, but i resonate with the humanity in them), thus the vote switch just now

the specific posts were, as hally's noted, the ones having to do with feeling like an outsider in this kind of playerlist, which i think makes sense given change of forum, recent games, and the overall caliber of play here, and yet it didn't feel like that was an excuse to not get stuck in or anything

like she was still pretty engaged with the game d1 just taking more of a backseat than normal and it made sense if she was v given all of that

the reads on both amy and gh were due to a lack of something rather than them doing anything that was particularly wolfy for them, it felt like only half of the picture was really there and given how... constructed? that implies something slightly different than i'm going for, but like

structured in terms of thoughts and ideas their posts were

wasn't something i was in love with

i kid you not

i have spent half a day wondering why people were talking about rocks so much and what game they were referencing

it just clicked when i read this post on my walk just now

i feel very silly

i actually was like "amy saying she had rocks in her brain was a weird not-really-amy-like thing to say"

and then people were talking about this game and i was like huh that doesn't sound familiar

but i think i just didn't talk about the game much except in dvc/with people who were in it and as such only really thought of it as The Invitational or whatever

visor i'm gonna be salty if you're v and you misread me later in the game despite my prolific use of capitalization and punctuation this morning

visor said i'm easier to read on dlp because of formatting recently

for the record my use of capitalization and all that has been a feels thing

not really intentional just that first morning in particular my mind felt especially structured and that direct communication was more natural than the normal floaty style i settle into most of the time

yes yes i know

vote: GeneralHankerchief

zack cast shade at me in the vc, nothing changed otherwise

i think wolves tend to have more of a filter in terms of what they post

esooa in particular is someone who'll probably post a lot as a wolf, but also try to make sure she's cultivating the right image

and that type of player tends to be less likely to just toss out an extremely surface level read that's never going to stick but is poking a bear and is in the range where it's not soft or hard enough to be a good look for them

this was talking about esooa's comment on visor's wall that only addressed the length and not the content; i do think it fits still

esooa's the sort of player who establishes presence as w and isn't scared and does stuff, but also avoids unnecessary conflict unless it serves some purpose

and i don't think this sort of defense is obvious enough to bait out as much as, say, trying to get v-read for having an incorrect tunnel and repping it v strongly as w

it's unrelated to that specific train of thought, but moderate strength v from some posts early on/how i feel her game has played out since

bop wanted clarification on my actual read on esooa, just explained what i'd laid out previously

because sometimes i like to stew on things and not force people's hands so they get defensive and i confbias on them and the focus becomes more on whether or not they're conforming to my particular standards by which i'm reading them than how they'd post if they were free to do whatever

because that's not a ton of fun

but i also thought the posts were pretty bad

and i'd have likely mentioned it in passing or implicitly at some point after having caught up if visor hadn't

why i wouldn't comment on amy's posts directly after reading them

as i'm sure everyone here knows very well, it's very easy to persuade yourself of things that aren't actually things

i do it much more often than i'd like, and especially early-mid d1 i don't want to start putting the hydraulic press on someone for a few posts they made at the start of the game, especially when my read is for a lack of something like it was with amy rather than for the presence of some unsavory behavior, because usually people being death-tunneled doesn't make them playing more like you expect them to under normal circumstances

manti

what's up

manti was just sitting back and lobbing shade at me from a distance

i wanted to prompt more valuable dialogue because i like manti and enjoy hearing his thoughts on the game and thought he might be trying to big brain my alignment from a distance

but after his recent wolf-game where he sat back and lobbed shade at me from a distance i wanted to get up close and personal because while i didn't think the shade was entirely unjustified i think a large part of it was due to our patterns of engagement not really overlapping a ton (also i didn't post that much either in volume or depth)

he was less playful/performative about it this time though which seemed like a mild positive

I disagree, I don't think there's been a general consensus to any degree approaching that of rocks; while individual people have said they think all the wolves are within a specific pool I haven't gotten the impression that there are many people who are general blind spots or that people's reads are lining up to an unusual or unhealthy degree.

The village read I'm most uncertain about is probably Eph, because I think he deserves more credit than he gets for his play, but I have a lot of people who are still fairly unsorted and I don't think I've really forced myself to come to any conclusions consciously or subconsciously this game so I'm both pretty happy with where I'm at in terms of town reads and think there's plenty of wiggle room.

responding to ara

i felt like her take was that the game was not particularly tense/diverse, similar to rocks, ergo this was bad

it didn't end up actually being quite what i read it as, but i felt pretty ok with our d1 especially compared with how static d1 of rocks was

obviously it wasn't amazing in retrospect, but like i still think the game as a whole feeling like it was moving in the right direction holds up

I'm more wondering if you feel like individual people are solidifying worlds at a faster rate than you'd expect. My impression has been a lot of the people who tend to jump to conclusions have been doing so, but it's not a thread-wide thing nor do I feel like people who don't tend to lock in on specific PoEs early are doing so at a higher rate or vice versa.

further clarification mostly

ara and i have fairly different approaches and i kinda expect this sort of bouncing off and "i don't feel like you're weighting things the way i would think to" a lot of the time, whether it's actually in an interaction or just in general

but i did consistently like her responses when i pushed her on those levels this game

hi hally

how do you feel about *waves hands*

hally was just coming into thread

on the back of my conversation about ara with the general gamestate i wanted to hear how hally was feeling about where things were headed and what was going on

one of the people in this game i tend to vibe with the most naturally

eph was also in slep

yes, i am quoting every single post

yes yes

more gauging like

your level of comfort about the current gamestate

anything you're specifically concerned about

how your day's been

they thought i was talking about their read on me, i felt awkward for not having been clear up front so i also inquired as to their day to make the interaction seem more convivial

actually more the three posts before then than these

manti thought i should wolfread the posts where he talked about philosophical idea stuff and like the classy showy manti haha i'm gonna do this no matter what you say this is what's up full stop, i felt like those were pretty nai but was a bit unsettled by the way he presented his ara and esooa reads, which were over the top in a very dramatic sense while having absolutely nothing in them

and it seemed like a very classic potential manti gotcha where he does something that looks weird and then memes on anyone who calls those posts out, and i didn't feel like he'd feel like he'd need to quite as often as v there

[Cuthillius]

anyway i'm not going to spend my entire day doing that

so i'm taking a break from this game for now and will be back with more relevant content

i might resume the scheduled programming tomorrow if i feel it's merited because it would make me feel like a cool kid but no promises

[Hally]

what is that

[Hally]

cuth that’s very cool but like

what’s the point

[Cuthillius]

cuth that’s very cool but like

what’s the point

i'm doing it for me not for you

[Hally]

if you’re v i need you to find wolves not post a play by play of everything you’ve said this game

[Hally]

i'm doing it for me not for you

but

why

[Hally]

unrelated but i’m kinda concerned monty has seemingly stopped doing stuff right as people started v reading him

[Maple]

unrelated but i’m kinda concerned monty has seemingly stopped doing stuff right as people started v reading him

indeedidly

[Hally]

what does this thing cuth is doing mean

[ColonelLubriderm]

what does this thing cuth is doing mean

I just assumed it was him doing what he thinks people read Monty v for just to see if it works(ie gets villa reads)

[Hally]

I just assumed it was him doing what he thinks people read Monty v for just to see if it works(ie gets villa reads)

huh? how is it similar to what monty was doing?

[ColonelLubriderm]

i don't know as much about wolf range in terms of behavior (insofar as we can discern any of that given the flips so far) as like emotional/posting range

and while i'm not saying that's by any means all of what people's reads hinge on i do think it plays into them to a certain extent, just like you all will probably start reconsidering your opinions of alignment the more words and thoughts i put into the thread

but i think the effect is exaggerated when it's not someone you're familiar with, and since monty's playstyle is... somewhat obscure in terms of overlap with most people, i think that aspect is something we're more prone to read into than we would be if his play was more

traditional

for lack of a better word

Basically I’m saying he’s doing the bolded

[Hally]

Basically I’m saying he’s doing the bolded

oh

i don’t think it’s the same though? because we v read monty for posting things about other people not himself. i don’t understand why cuth would think posting stuff about himself would get him v read

[ColonelLubriderm]

huh? how is it similar to what monty was doing?

I interpreted him saying monte was getting villa read for seemingly putting together longer and better thoughts.

So now he’s putting together longer thoughts

[Maple]

The only thing I care about right now is critical analysis

Any other posts are either ignored or don't impact my reads

Good tone and feelz do not matter at this stage

[Maple]

I have no reads that I'm willing to take a bet on and bring to lylo so I'm more or less equally willing to go after any wagon if it looks sufficiently good.

[Maple]

I can't say I particularly care about any of the posts made so far today.

[ColonelLubriderm]

oh

i don’t think it’s the same though? because we v read monty for posting things about other people not himself. i don’t understand why cuth would think posting stuff about himself would get him v read

He might not be doing that at all.
I have no idea what he’s doing and I’m just trying to somehow make sense of it.

Because before it all started he said it would work better if he posted more content this game so my thought is that him posting these long form analysis of his own posts would work better to stop him from being eliminated if he did more content in the firs5 place.

Only way I currently make sense of it

[Cuthillius]

I just assumed it was him doing what he thinks people read Monty v for just to see if it works(ie gets villa reads)

lmao

i wrote that post about halfway through doing the thing, and i knew someone would say this

i was going to do the entire iso because it's funny, because it's something i've wanted to do for a while in this situation, and since i think the biggest issue y'all have had with me this game stems from my not having put thoughts into the thread, even when the outcomes of those thoughts do show up in my posts

i'm specifically inspired by fontisian, in case you're wondering

[ColonelLubriderm]

I’m pretty sure unless team is ara/manasi

Killing monte/cuth/maple results in a wolf for sure

[Hally]

lmao

i wrote that post about halfway through doing the thing, and i knew someone would say this

i was going to do the entire iso because it's funny, because it's something i've wanted to do for a while in this situation, and since i think the biggest issue y'all have had with me this game stems from my not having put thoughts into the thread, even when the outcomes of those thoughts do show up in my posts

i'm specifically inspired by fontisian, in case you're wondering

can you do something else please