Mass Effect 17er [Game Thread]

[ColonelLubriderm]

ALso i've read the first half of visor's iso, and i loved his day 1 but I feel like he dropped off afterwards. I wish he showed the same care he showing eod yesterday and today on day 2/3(note this is just my recollection, i havent reread but i remember him not being around as much and this take coudl change when i finish his iso). He pushed dya/'dolby day 2 so it's not like anything he said was bad or incorrect. I just think the way he's played is really outside something he'd do as a wolf.

If i was wolf visor and wasnt with manasi, i'd try to get them to come along with me on esooa for the win. That is probably the easiest spot to push other than manasi herself, and why push manasi when it would probably be light times easier to pocket.

That being said, i think he can only be a wolf with ara/hally and i'm not even convinced hally is a wolf.

...he's played isn't really outside...

*what it should read

[ColonelLubriderm]

Hello.

I've read every post (hi GH).

I have also determined I have no reads.

Better luck tomorrow.

Scum tell (re Echks; @Visor @Esooa @pzelda). GG Manasi

lmao I didn't catch the read the whole thread thing before cause I just take that for granted but yeh.

Rasko made the read on manasi's post that esooa then commented on.

@Esooa what did you have a problem with in manasi's post?

[ColonelLubriderm]

honestly I don't like the GH votes at all. I see what people mean that if Dya is a wolf GH is, but the association here is

town!dya=town!GH (he would lynch Dya day 1)
wolf!dya= town/wolf!GH (he could save her, he could just be wrong day 1)

so voting GH before Dya here is just bad, or am I missing something?

Regardless, I don't like the two competing wagons being stagnant and somehow only two votes

Vote:montmorency

minus the monty vote, I like this from esooa;

I think on day 2 wolves would really want to waste villa KP on GH so keeping the GH/dya connection is key. Now, this post doesnt say they are never connected but their other posts V reading GH regardless I think is a good look.

Like I was a prponent early on of the GH/dya w/w connection. But by the EoD I was pretty much in a spot where I thought GH waqs just a villa alot of the time regardless(and i even tried said several times during the EoD to not kill GH just because dya flips wolf). I think wolves wouldn't want this.

Also I believe Ara was also a GH villa proponent day2 which is something in her favor

Visor was not

[ColonelLubriderm]

Not quite seeing where to spoiler these quotes but it shouldn't be too bad

anyways, Visors very defensive and tries to push himself as being anti-associated with Dya, saying too that voting him over Dya is bonkers if you think they're possibly w/w. I don't like these points on their own because the defensiveness feels out of place, but particularly because I don't think a vote on Dya is all that clearing if she's wolf. Dya slanked hard enough and was scum read hard enough that you're definitely not going to be going out of your way to defend her as wolf.

But then after all this, Visor votes Dya, who he strongly scum reads, then moves to me instead, on the same page someone pointed out the exact same argument he's giving applies to myself (my vote on Dya)

So I don't really feel like he's fairly reading or really believes his argument, or vote

like this esooa post too

[ColonelLubriderm]

im fine killing dya
or esooa
(i guess gh too?)

day 2

[ColonelLubriderm]

hally also on the kill GH if dya wolf train.

[ColonelLubriderm]

notable that neither night kill was on Dya here imo

Do you remember what you thought this meant?

[ColonelLubriderm]

raskol v
im v
ephemeral
esooa
manasi

you voted third iirc when you probably didnt have to vote there at all and make it a wagon

esooa voting shrug, im sure shed bus

mansai could def bus there and has in the past but idk, if her plan is to not pay attention bussing kinda stinks there unless she is a strong pr

idk!

i dont necessarily think esooa is a wolf, but out of the three id order eph>manasi>esooa

i feel like that is not the case

[ColonelLubriderm]

i had a bit of a read over the thread last night and i think i like manti and esooa as villas more maybe

also given how dolby talked about dya i am thinking about clearing the people he had a lot to say about cause possibly just trying to pocket?

didn't dolby have alot ot say on manty?

[ColonelLubriderm]

monty has been wrong on a fair amount this game, so much so that i think he kinda has to be a villa?

plus i think dolbys posts re him were trying to pocket him and i dont think either monty or esooa responded how i think they would if it was a w/w interactions

lol time warp pony is slow

[ColonelLubriderm]

5 Montmorency (Arapocalypse, Esooa, Cuthillius, Visor, Maple)

3 Cuthillius (ColonelLubriderm, Hally, Montmorency)

Not Voting: Manasi

So i'm at the start of day 4 and i'm skimming to fine esooa posts but also stopping to read Visor posts. At the start of day 4 theya re both on the same page, Monty likely a vill abecause dolby interaction, and visor is even on board the esooa/dya not w/w train of thought.

Then the day ended above.

I figured this is a spicy point to take a break on a nice little cliffhanger, interested to see why the monty reads changed.

[ColonelLubriderm]

Also, here is a tl;dr on my problem with Ara.

lack of urgency.

Not just in recent day, but throughout the game, Ara has not been finding scum. She is finding reasons to read everyone villa, but not really POEing out scum and has shown no real urgency to do so. On later days, when she has villa reads on all but a couple people, there is no urgency to figure out if shes wrong, where she is wrong and she doesn't feel like she has the game solved at all.

[ColonelLubriderm]

Also, here is a tl;dr on my problem with Ara.

lack of urgency.

Not just in recent day, but throughout the game, Ara has not been finding scum. She is finding reasons to read everyone villa, but not really POEing out scum and has shown no real urgency to do so. On later days, when she has villa reads on all but a couple people, there is no urgency to figure out if shes wrong, where she is wrong and she doesn't feel like she has the game solved at all.

Nor does it seem like she cares enough to figure it out.

Her lack of being around on this day does not factor into this at all because I understand they are busy and in no way is that a factor. The urgency on previous days is the problem.

[ColonelLubriderm]

Hally
Arapocalypse
Maple
ColonelLubriderm
Visor
Montmorency
Manasi
Cuthillius

Not too sure how to sort the people on the top cause I'm currently feeling pretty reasonably everyone down to Bop is town and Visor/Monty I still feel like are which makes me worried I'm probably misreading someone so looking over that today is good

Unless it's exactly Manasi/Cuth lol

A little surprised at Monty being so low but ehhhhhhhhh he doesn't really feel like he should be higher

I like this post. This is what I was concerned about WRT ara, esooa at least shows they realize that unless its exactly manasi/cuth then they have issues and is thinking about this(or at least talking about thinking about this)

Thats alli really want in this world

the illusion of urgency

[ColonelLubriderm]

@Esooa

What made you switch from monty V to monty W?

What happened to manasi?

[ColonelLubriderm]

I'm fucking tired so lemme try to recollect all my thoughts lmao

Thoughts regarding the fact Manti was alive;

Manti wasn't killed night 3 even though when I reread day 3 his softing was obvious as fuck. Pushing Monty for softing a role he had, mentioning stuff regarding vigis constantly, making references to Rocks fall where he was vigi, etc. I haven't had time to look back yet at his read EoD 3 but I agree scum didn't really care if he was left alive>his reads EoD3 weren't accurate.

You had manti in your top 3 on day 4 but you never really talked about manti or trusted him. You trusted ara/me/hally more during the eod because you responded to someone saying as much. I am mildly concerned this might be a TMI read and manti was peeked n3. I think he was peeked because he died last night.

Also before this post you mention pzelda being a PR kill, why couldnt he be a kill for being a consensus clear? Was there somethign he posted that made you think he was a PR before hand?

When I look at day 4 then the biggest thing is obviously pushing between Monty/Cuthalion

Bop said, literally in thread, that if one flips town shoot the other, which is probably the worst post regarding that. I agree with Hally that he's town

Is the he me? i'm unclear

The next thing I don't like regarding this is the people who swung over to Cuth EoD4 when Manti said Cuth was really wolfy. I don't like iirc (sorry this is all from earlier and my phone died cause I worked 13 hours at work and now I'm pass out tired again, I'll collect all these thoughts more so over the night phase) the votes from Hally and Visor here because it just seemed to be trying to enforce that the lynch was between Cuth/Monty, I also think voting Cuth there is just always worse than Monty cause I don't see how people scum read Cuth more at that point and Cuth can way more easily put in work the next day if he lives.

You seem to be pretty sure Manti was a villager since you picked up on his softs in your reread. He was in your top three earlier in the day. Why not trust him? Is there a point where you tried to push the elimination outside cuth/monty? I recall you voting visor, which seemed spiteful because of his push on you, but you seemed pretty good about monty going despite villa reading him earlier. Why not try to go for manasi?

Last thing about this is I found it really weird how Ara was saying today she should have pushed for shooting Manasi more when I didn't really remember her doing much of that at all. Like it wasn't that she should have done it more I find in her iso that she should have done it at all. She was reluctant to say vig Monty/cuth or whatever, but only thing I really recall from ISO'ing her earlier was her saying she didn't like the shot, but peoples vig etc etc.

Regarding where I generally stand on players

I thought a bit about the fact brought up earlier that there's 3 people who voted Dya day 1 still alive. I agree it's weird but when looking at the actual votes it is:

Myself, who I just don't think I'm going to be getting night killed considering my standing as a player on this player list and how much I was (not) pushing reads

Manasi, who is straight up never going to have been night killed this game lol

and Visor

The fact Visor is here is I think the most relevant person still left alive from Dya's day 1 wagon. Especially so because generally I feel Visor has been trying more so than I've seem him previously? Not a lot more so, but it's notable he's alive

However, I highly doubt there's 2 wolves on Dya EoD1. I don't, off the top of my head, recall anything I'd be confident in not w/w from Visor/Manasi, but them being w/w makes Csargos wagon pure which atm I'm not buying.

And when considering this, I'm always lynching Manasi before I lynch Visor based on play this game, what he's done, etc

I have a few problems still with Visor but yeh, I still believe he's town and him likely not being w/w with Manasi helps that

Visor has been focused on you since day 2. Do you feel like his reasoning is sound? Pushign a villager(you) for 4 days is better than slanking? what do you like about him other than the fact that he's been around more than manasi?

as for night kills in general

Sunbae was probably just an SPK though I don't really know him. Biggest thing to note here is why people like Hally/Visor didn't die. Visor not dying over Sunbae who was on Csargo compared to Visor who was on Dya is weird but meh. Whatever. Will consider that more later ig overnight. Pzelda was a pr hunt. Probably from being role copped cause I remember nothing PR-esque about him. On top of this his EoD reads list that I thought was relevant at the time had Visor/Bop (might be forgetting here)/Manti/Dya

Dya was dead, Manti is town, Visor is probably town, Bop is probably town, so he wasn't killed for his reads. Not really an SPK either.

Night 3 Ephemeral died. Will need to look more into that

Night 4 manti died. Was an SPK

So yeah. I'll read EoD3 again trying to ask why Ephemeral died, and I wanted to get that done with ISO's but unfortunately they just don't go that far back

Why should visor get killed before sunbae for being on dya before dya flipped?

You mention pzelda killed for being rolecopped again. He was villa read by everyone. Why can't that be the reason? Why so sure on rolecop? When do you think he was rolecopped.

Also, his scum list was visor/monty/dya/manti ; not me.

Ephemeral's Iso ends on d3 so it would be pretty easy to go take a look at his posts to see if there is something. I agree this is an odd kill but plenty of plausible reasons.

You think manti kill was because SPK and not because of being a PR, interesting.

Now a few thoughts on Hally/Ara

I think Ara has been fairly towny this game but one thing I wanna ask about is why are people who played with her in rocks town reading her. I find a very noticeable difference in the reads she's received this game (being largely town read) compared to Ara being mislynched day 1 in the previous game. So, @ hally/Visor (I think you two are the only ones?) what do you think is the reason you're town reading Ara this game compared to how you treated her last game?

Another player I wanna mention with Ara is Hally. Since we're in lylo and I've fucked this up a few times before based on having bad reads I'm taking the advice of Frog when he said; in lylo you reevaluate all your reads and look strongly at things like specifically night kills

Unfortunately iirc Ara/Visor/Hally were all decently town read by the players who died, and two of them (Manti/Pzelda) were just straight up PR kills, so idk how much value I can get from that, but Hally not dying needs to be strongly considered. I find her to be overwhelmingly towny but it's the same problem with her and Ara which is *why* are they?

I put this is awkwardly but I'm not re-writing stuff but; I've had a few games where people read me way more towny than normal because I'm trying really hard as a wolf to be town read. I think Ara and Hally are both capable of that and the noticeable departure from how they behaved compared to the previous game is why I'm bringing this up. When I consider between them I have more problems with Ara, and I know she likes wolfing a lot, while Hally doesn't really like wolfing as much iirc, but hasn't been night killed. Both obv need consideration here but I lean Ara as more likely wolf here than Hally but want to reiterate the question of what changed for people between Ara last game and this game

Last paragraph loses me a bit, not surew what you are sayign here WRT you trying hard to be villa read as a wolf.

Anyways, regarding Visor voting me

I don't see the issue you have with my day 1 Dya interactions. I'd also say you just searching "dya" in my ISO probably isn't gonna pull up everything regarding what I've said about her so yeah. But anyways at the time I wrote the reads list you mention where I didn't mention Dya I was like passing out tired after rereading the game for 3 hours or something until 7 am. Like sorry I didn't re-emphasize what everyone was already saying about Dya; the one thing everyone had already said which is that she lacked any real energy, but I don't see why that's such a problem to you

I'd also like to say that if I were a wolf here I'd probably not have been having so many people town reading me throughout the game. As much as I'd like to say I could fool this player list that just wouldn't happen. Cuth town read me, Eph kinda did iirc? I think he said he felt good about me but couldn't super substantiate it, GH town read me, I don't remember everyones reads on me exactly but yeah point still stands

Sorry if this was fucking hard to read I'm trying to remember everything lol

perhaps re-evaluate the bolded. life is alot easier this way.

[ColonelLubriderm]

so anyways I realize there's no real solid conclusions in there so I'll write it up all neat and fancy like

Visor: not going there in f5, is probably town
Bop: Also not going there f5, is probably town. Will look into Visor/Bop team equity over night (and any w/w anti associations over night) so I don't get burned by that team but I'm probably never voting one of these two
Hally: Gonna look into more, could be a wolf based on primarily NK's/stuff with being someone who would leave Manti alive emphasized by her Cuth focus yesterday imo, but overwhelmingly has been towny
Ara: wolf but mostly for PoE reasons. Will again read her overnight and get a solid basis for my read either way
Manasi: Feeling reasonably strongly is wolf

if I don't come up with solid reasons to town read/wolf read the people I have my reads on by tomorrow (game day) feel free to turbo me or whatever lol but I'm gonna be doing everything I can to not lose this in lylo just cause I haven't done a ton myself this game (which is why I'm just dumping thoughts rn)

why?

[ColonelLubriderm]

With esooa, i like the interactions and i mostly dig their posts through the first half of day 4, the back half of day 4(monty read switch+lack of manasi) and then coming into today wanting to kill manasi and some of the NK speculation has me concerned. Also the fact that Visor is prob just town and not gonna re-evaluate the read despite him pushing her since day 2. Esooa seemed to feel differently during the d4 eod.

I'm annoyed i'm actually going to read an outside wolfgame to see if what visor says makes sense. Maybe I should just not read it and take esooa's word for it that he's fine. /sarcasm

[ColonelLubriderm]

752 posts in 4 days

fuck that

[ColonelLubriderm]

I like this post. This is what I was concerned about WRT ara, esooa at least shows they realize that unless its exactly manasi/cuth then they have issues and is thinking about this(or at least talking about thinking about this)

Thats alli really want in this world

the illusion of urgency

but was it just an illusion?

Sure they re-evauated on cuth and dropped monte down. They pushed on visor but that read more like spiteful frustration and today he's town so I don't thikn that was real. No mention of manasi after this that I remember.

[ColonelLubriderm]

752 posts in 4 days

fuck that

this is just esooa's iso from that game

[ColonelLubriderm]

Alright. Well if you look at that game holistically:

Pilica and Lukundo (my teammates) both got death tunneled by multiple people day one.

It's also a role madness.

Pilica and Lukundo's thread position can be reflective of Dyachei in that way; they were being heavily scum read and likely to flip soon.

Considering the game was also role madness, it's very beneficial to distance, because any of you can be mech outed really.

So I voted Pilica, I interacted with her and gave kinda light questions like you quote

But EoD 1, when people wanted Pilica dead, I HARD pushed Triplehaven. I'll get quotes if you want.

Day 2, both Pilica and Lukundo were scum read again. I made an entire wall scum reading Lukundo, but I again hard pushed Gikkle, a town, instead.

Like okay, I asked questions about them. But if you look at my play, it's to distance and then push townies

Cause my general play as wolf is just to argue myself out of anything that looks bad when I get to that later

I never tried to save Dya once. I scum read her, I agreed with the reads. I gave reasons why I thought Csargo was towny after having just played with him and Csargo's main focus at the time was also disagreeing with town reads on Dolby

so I don't think it's at all accurate to quote a few posts and say they're comparable bronana

didn't you end up on lukundo at the eod? your wolfbro?

[ColonelLubriderm]

didn't you end up on lukundo at the eod? your wolfbro?

not only end up on him, but voted him to tie him with the other wolf when you could have tied the town, gikkle, you said you pushed?

[ColonelLubriderm]

not only end up on him, but voted him to tie him with the other wolf when you could have tied the town, gikkle, you said you pushed?

Now I don't know the intricacies of the gamestate, but you are saying how you don't relegate to bussing with your eod 1 and eod2 parts however this shows that even though sure you say you push villas, you are fine hopping on the wolf train and in this case early since they ended the day with 13+votes.

Also while visor's quoted posts aren't 100% similar there are some things that he quoted between you and pilica that remind me of you and dolby day 1 interaction when dolby tried to give you a villa read that you rebuked him for.

[ColonelLubriderm]

takign a break for a bit then hally time

[Hally]

quote from that esooa wolf game (date of quote is 2/16, which is right before this game started):

Esooa, do it.

I'm tryna be less pushy and aggro and shit cause my last game I basically forced a t/t thunderdome that was pretty shitty for the game so nah. Let's just go about the day like normal

quote from an esooa villa game (date of quote is 2/22, which is after this game started):

even your reaction to my vote sounds like distant howls in the night...

my reaction to u is you're really fucking annoying and probably scum for having shit opinions so I want u dead

esooa has said this game that she’s trying to be less aggressive, which is the same thing she said as a wolf that game and is fine if it’s a global change. but looking at the villa game there’s that quote and others too i could have quoted that show she’s still very aggressive as a villager

i feel bad holding this against her because it’s possible she generally is less aggressive now as both alignments and the quotes from the villa game are just a slip up (i only read the first like page and a half of each iso). also possible that she has been trying extra hard to dial it back because this is her first time playing here, which i also really don’t wanna hold against her. and in general i hate using tells like this because i think players working to be less aggressive and stuff is a good thing and trying to hold people to their previous play too much can get in the way of them growing

buuuut with the timing of the quotes and how stark a difference it seems to be between alignments i think it’s fair to raise

[Zack]

Official Tally as of #3328

1 Esooa (Visor)
1 Manasi (Hally)
1 No Elimination (ColonelLubriderm)

Not Voting: Arapocalypse, Esooa, Manasi

tally still the same

little under 4 hours to EOD

[Hally]

...he's played isn't really outside...

*what it should read

can you talk about this more? how specifically does his play this game compare to how you imagine he would play as a wolf?

[Hally]

takign a break for a bit then hally time

i can’t wait for you to quote all the posts where i was wrong this game so i can hate myself

[ColonelLubriderm]

i can’t wait for you to quote all the posts where i was wrong this game so i can hate myself

you will be wrong in werewolf more times then you will be right