Great Power contentions

[rory_20_uk]

EU imposes sanctions on all members of Russian Duma and other influential individuals. UK imposes sanctions on 5 Russian banks and 3 oligarchs. No sanctions on anyone who has donated to Tory party during Boris Johnson's time as PM. I guess those banks and oligarchs must be punished for forgetting to top up the party coffers.

In neither case will it make a jot of difference.

[Pannonian]

In neither case will it make a jot of difference.

If so, why aren't the Tory government doing more?

[Shaka_Khan]

China isn't imposing economic sanctions on Russia.

[Hooahguy]

China isn't imposing economic sanctions on Russia.

Saw that coming a mile away, considering their claims on Taiwan.

[Shaka_Khan]

Saw that coming a mile away, considering their claims on Taiwan.

Same here.
Economic sanctions by the EU and North America alone won't stop Putin, not right away.

[Kagemusha]

It seems that Russia has neutralized lot of military airports,installations and depots with cruise missiles already.Also major ports have been targeted. At least three separate armoured recon elements have crossed from Belarussia towards Ukrainian major cities. Also similar Armored elements have crossed from Crimea towards North, while attacks have started along the entire "separatist" frontier.

I would expect that within today the main bodies of those armoured formations will pour in from North and South, while probably amphibious landings will happen at Black Sea coast. On top of that my bet is that paratroops and air mobile infantry will start landing on key locations soon enough. Black Day for all of us.

[Crandar]

The analogies with Azerbaijan are unconvincing. Azerbaijan took back the Azerbaijani lands, which had been conquered by the Armenians 25 years ago. The land was globally recognized as Azerbaijani, despite being ethnically cleansed and under Armenian military occupation.

[rory_20_uk]

If so, why aren't the Tory government doing more?

Because we are a small island the other side of Europe - a modern day phrase would be "We've not got the ships, we've not got the men, and not got the money too"... Pax Britannia is long since dead. And the last time we got involved in a war in that neck of the woods (the Crimea) it went horribly wrong.

A united Europe would struggle to project strength there. And Europe - be that NATO / EU or whatever - isn't. No country in Europe has forces with the reach, nor the logistical chain to back up anything like a near-peer war. Few, if any, in Western Europe have the will to do so.

Europe can stop buying their fuel. But European voters care a lot more about fuel bills than the Ukraine. Ironically, the UK doesn't purchase much Russian gas so we don't even have that lever to pull; I read an article that the UK could help the EU with LNG imports (since we have excess terminals and Europe doesn't have enough to compensate for the loss of Russia) but LNG is more expensive. We've stopped selling Russian debt - leaving only ten or so other places to sell it.

One of the few upsides in not mattering as a country is being able to kick back, look at big geopolitical issues and go "oh dear - someone really ought to do something about that..."

[Pannonian]

Because we are a small island the other side of Europe - a modern day phrase would be "We've not got the ships, we've not got the men, and not got the money too"... Pax Britannia is long since dead. And the last time we got involved in a war in that neck of the woods (the Crimea) it went horribly wrong.

A united Europe would struggle to project strength there. And Europe - be that NATO / EU or whatever - isn't. No country in Europe has forces with the reach, nor the logistical chain to back up anything like a near-peer war. Few, if any, in Western Europe have the will to do so.

Europe can stop buying their fuel. But European voters care a lot more about fuel bills than the Ukraine. Ironically, the UK doesn't purchase much Russian gas so we don't even have that lever to pull; I read an article that the UK could help the EU with LNG imports (since we have excess terminals and Europe doesn't have enough to compensate for the loss of Russia) but LNG is more expensive. We've stopped selling Russian debt - leaving only ten or so other places to sell it.

One of the few upsides in not mattering as a country is being able to kick back, look at big geopolitical issues and go "oh dear - someone really ought to do something about that..."

I'm not talking about sending ships, planes, or boots on the ground. I'm talking about sanctions against Russian money. It's entirely within our power to do so. But despite all the noise about us being hardline against Russian aggression, we're doing less about Russian money than the EU are. None of those who've donated to the Tory party during Johnson's reign have any action taken against them, and precious few besides. What's the explanation for doing less than the EU on this matter?

[rory_20_uk]

I'm not talking about sending ships, planes, or boots on the ground. I'm talking about sanctions against Russian money. It's entirely within our power to do so. But despite all the noise about us being hardline against Russian aggression, we're doing less about Russian money than the EU are. None of those who've donated to the Tory party during Johnson's reign have any action taken against them, and precious few besides. What's the explanation for doing less than the EU on this matter?

I hope you're not expecting me to defend Boris.

What I did say is that neither the EU nor the UK sanctions will do anything. Not buying Russian gas probably would eventually - but I don't see the EU jumping on that one. If the USA blocks Russia from the international banking system that would probably at the very least cause a massive inconvenience.

[Montmorency]

Because we are a small island the other side of Europe - a modern day phrase would be "We've not got the ships, we've not got the men, and not got the money too"... Pax Britannia is long since dead. And the last time we got involved in a war in that neck of the woods (the Crimea) it went horribly wrong.

A united Europe would struggle to project strength there. And Europe - be that NATO / EU or whatever - isn't. No country in Europe has forces with the reach, nor the logistical chain to back up anything like a near-peer war. Few, if any, in Western Europe have the will to do so.

What I did say is that neither the EU nor the UK sanctions will do anything. Not buying Russian gas probably would eventually - but I don't see the EU jumping on that one. If the USA blocks Russia from the international banking system that would probably at the very least cause a massive inconvenience.

Russia/Russian plutocrats have hundreds of billions in assets in Europe, disproportionately in the UK. Not "what can" be done, much to do. It means nothing to speak of devastating financial repercussions against Russia without these steps, because the elite will parasitize the mass of Russians to the end unless you expropriate everything of 'theirs' you can identify. The Russian standard of living is irrelevant. The oligarchic standard of living is everything.

[Pannonian]

I hope you're not expecting me to defend Boris.

What I did say is that neither the EU nor the UK sanctions will do anything. Not buying Russian gas probably would eventually - but I don't see the EU jumping on that one. If the USA blocks Russia from the international banking system that would probably at the very least cause a massive inconvenience.

The UK is one of the biggest investment locations for Russian oligarchs, due to our willingness to allow money laundering. The Taliban are in a bind because everyone is freezing their assets. Why isn't the UK doing the same with Russian oligarchs?

[Montmorency]

torschlusspanik


The Russians are invading, and to a cover of Rammstein's Sonne at that.
https://twitter.com/YWNReporter/stat...59399796051969 [VIDEO]

Publicly, he's staking out the middle ground (Donbas clearing operation). But the mythopoetic and nuclear-threat rhetoric aren't really compatible with anything but total conquest - not that Putin's obligated to obey the logic of his words.

Путин заявил, что принял решение о проведении военной операции по защите Донбасса

Putin announced that he had decided to conduct a special military operation to protect Donbass.

Russia will not allow Ukraine to have nuclear weapons, Putin added. The plans of the Russian Federation do not include the occupation of Ukrainian territories, he said.

Circumstances require decisive action from Russia, Putin said.

RF considers it important that all peoples of Ukraine could use the right of self-determination - Putin.

The actions of the Russian Federation are not connected with the infringement of the interests of Ukraine, but with protecting itself from "those who took Ukraine hostage" - Putin.

Russian state media already discussed a partition of Ukraine back in 2014, but the material they've been presenting now is even more extreme.



Clockwise from left: "Stalin's gifts"; "Gifts of the Russian czars"; "Ukraine"; "Lenin's gifts"; "Khruschev's gift."

From a mainline (American) paleoconservative outlet/commentator:

To repeat myself: I am opposed to Russia’s actions in Ukraine. I think Russia should leave Ukraine alone, but whatever happens, I am adamantly against following the US leadership into hawkish actions against the Russians. It’s not at all because I support Russia or in any way approve of what it’s doing. (I hope Russian families and Russian soldiers stop to think about what exorbitant cost is extracted from them so that Putin can restore Greater Russia.) It’s rather that I am sick to the point of puking of these people — the American elites — sh*tting all over so many of us, yet expecting us to send our sons (and daughters) to fight its damn wars. Especially when the goal is to extend American political and cultural hegemony over the world, to allow the Western-oriented elites in those countries to ruin the lives of the normal people in those places in the same way they have ruined ours.

Put another way, I adamantly oppose risking the lives of boys from Louisiana and Alabama to make the Donbass safe for genderqueers and migrants. If that makes me a reactionary troll, fine, I’ll own that. I love my country and would put my life on the line to fight for her against foreign invaders. But we are not the good guys I used to think we were. We can’t even protect schoolgirls in Louisiana and Alabama from this toxic ideology that is destroying their moral sense, but they expect us to gear up in case we are called to fight for Ukraine?

Biden has said American troops won’t be fighting for Ukraine. I don’t believe him. It’s not that I think he’s consciously lying, but rather it’s that things could go very bad, very quickly, with US troops in the region. And it’s that my trust in anything anybody in Washington says is about at the level of a synod of bishops.

It is incontrovertible that the human Right today is inreasingly beglamoured by a psychotic evil, and we must defend ourselves.

[Furunculus]

The UK is one of the biggest investment locations for Russian oligarchs, due to our willingness to allow money laundering. The Taliban are in a bind because everyone is freezing their assets. Why isn't the UK doing the same with Russian oligarchs?

i believe we are now doing just this - stage #2 has arrived after the first bunch of measures taken earlier in the week:

https://twitter.com/SamRamani2/statu...96779983683584

rumour has it that italy and france are vetoing kicking russia out of the SWIFT intebank system:

https://twitter.com/Mij_Europe/statu...92887732297730