Rampage Out of Space

[Csargo]

Interesting, how do you square Borg's interactions on D1 as w/w with Tim? I just can't see it.

I can't, I'd have to go back and scrutinize it to see all of their interactions. The ridiculous hk/Tims wolfchat post is the only one I remember thinking was so out there it was town. I mostly have a problem with LA's activity level.

[Lewwyn]

Sorry I've been busy IRL

also, was neighbor chat open at nights and did you guys use it?

chat is always open

Lewwyn and Zelda, what are the highlights and lowlights of neighbor chat, insofar as you're allowed to talk about it, if at all?

pzelda, did Lewwyn know you had a power?

I can answer yes. I knew and it also played into my paranoia since zelda says the ability got stronger (ie: more accurate) when he targets someone at the same time as someone one else. In fact it was his first post in the thread stating that he had a power and he assumes I had a power so that we could work together because his power was stronger when we targeted the same person. He told me his specific power when he locked me town after Tim was killed.

I did not mention this earlier because I wanted to get feedback before revealing his ability and possibly outing a town power role. If I was wrong about his scumminess then his role power would not be revealed.

The order of events on that reveal to me.

Z: Have a night power, I guess you have one
L: Yes I do
N1
Z: target either gnome or winston. Using action on Winston. I probably should tell you action but let you guess first.
L: Tracker? Watcher? My ability is role block one shot, can't hint at it or I lose it, yada yada
D2:
Z: I trust you based on Tim. I'm a delayed cop. I need someone else to target the same target to get a 100% true result. If I die my results get reported on death.
L: Targeting the same person as someone else the same night?
Z: Yes
L: Limited power?
Z: Unlimited
N2
Z: /lists possible targets and discusses possible targets
L: /no responds
D3
L: Sorry I claimed in thread.
Z: Okay I scanned you last night.


I'm revealing the entirety of Zelda's power as explained to me in the neighbor chat now, because he hasn't fully here and while I understand why he'd want to keep his power on the down low, part of my suspicion is based in the power claim itself. The role is unlimited, but doesn't give true results unless targeting the same person as someone else. Also the results are revealed on death. And its delayed. It just seems too perfect to sucker me into having my ability controlled. I'm also posting it now because if he does die his results are posted anyway right? And if someone else has a night action if they know zelda needs another night action to get 100% truth on his scan then maybe they can help. If they believe him.

[Lewwyn]

Also to add that if Zelda is innocent that's a pretty bastard role. That plus my role being lost if I or my neighbor hints at a result just makes me paranoid. It's possible that all of this is true and zelda is an unlimited, delayed town cop, who reports results on death and needs someone else to get true results and Monty designed it this way to create paranoia. One problem is that my ability is a global 1 - shot and not a direct target like Zelda's supposed ability needs in order to activate the 100% correct true condition.

In any case it's feel better revealing all that so that if I die, the information is not lost in the neighbor chat.

[Lewwyn]

Oh and Vote : Gnome

[pzelda]

pzelda, did Lewwyn know you had a power?

yeah.

Him recreating the conversation here makes me a dead man. I don't even get my n2 result because of getting blocked (I targeted Lewwyn after he stopped responding in our chat, suspecting him that he might have decided to kill me after getting all details about my role from me). Lewwyn, you probably won't get killed any time soon after you vanillazed yourself.

[pzelda]

Tim put forward like 5 wolf reads with Vro , Lau , Ibn not having spoken a thing yet on D1. He told that it might be flawed , and I believe that he had framed atleast one true wolf in the ones whom he read as wolf

Also Borg had a statement in which it seemed HK and Tim are connected via mafia chat. I don't know how that went unnoticed.

GG has been bussed, and I do believe Dolby might be a wolf, I saw him giving enormous walls last time as a wolf, but there were obvious mislynch targets there , here its still sort of deadlock.

GG tried to make a softening statement earlier, I buy Winston's idea of GG being sk .

Hot take : Borg exposed Tim to get a mech clear , it's quite improbable a wolf team having Tim will like to lose him , and so a mech clear.

El-A was killed by someone whom he townread , I think. I need to check his reads out again

I think these two come more likely from town than scum because of the former being tin foil and the latter a shade, but both feels like statements a slightly paranoid town would make and scum would try to avoid. It feels like you're reading in posts too literally to be a wolf. Meh, I might be wrong.

I agree with HK, that you should expand on most of the post and actually post some conclusions!!!

[pzelda]

Lewwyn and Zelda, what are the highlights and lowlights of neighbor chat, insofar as you're allowed to talk about it, if at all?

also, was neighbor chat open at nights and did you guys use it?

I don't find answering these questions any helpful to town tbh. How would the answers help you to evaluate our alignments?

[pzelda]

Lewwyn and Zelda, what are the highlights and lowlights of neighbor chat, insofar as you're allowed to talk about it, if at all?

I hate being cleared. It does strange things to my mind.

The thing I didn't mention on purpose is that my scan probably wasn't 100% reliable (unless someone else targeted you n1 with their action). My pm doesn't state the exact percentage, but I decided to trust the peek and claim it because of your actions in the thread.

[pzelda]

Let me explain my d1 meta. As scum I'm usually more derpy and super fake. As town I'm shady, because I don't want to lock too many reads too early and I'm usually trying to make less posts and that my come across as tryharding. But posts like my entrance in this game are a legacy of my experience with light games (50 posts cap) at MU and my usual effort to make myself as clear as possible asap.

I might be sharing too much about my meta, but it's rather easy to see differences if you read few games. I don't want you do that, tho. I just want to show you how I made these posts as town. Overall, I'm more likely to be wolf if you're unsure where I'm at.

That said I left out Vroe from my poe. The reasons are simple. I was thinking about moving him in town for some posts, but I need to see a list from him first. He has great posts on individual players, but I'm unsure about his "worlds."

Dolby is someone I need to focus on later. He's quite open about his reads, but they don't feel very substantial. I guess I should check how consistent he has been and if he was the first one pushing anyone.

[Laurentus]

Meh, Gnome should be the wagon for today, but I'm voting for Dolby.

If the wagons somehow get moved while I sleep (BTW, I'm not going to be here for EoD, it's in the early hours of the morning for me), then it'll probably be a combination of dumb town and really good wolfing. I think there are two wolves left? So they really shouldn't be able to do much through votes alone with how many players are still left.

Once more a reminder that if anyone tries to drive a CFD on me and I inevitably flip town, kill whoever did it in the next phase, thank you.

Bit of a legacy: the fact that Vro can't clearly tell I'm Town here is troubling, because of all people, he should know how seriously I take the responsibility of wolfing, and he knows I wouldn't TMI myself like that in some dumb stunt to get derp cleared. To a lesser extent, this applies to Dolby and Borg, too, since Dolby subbed in for me in the last game I played, and Borg was actively my scum bud, so they should know how seriously I take this too.

Csargo still hasn't clarified the inconsistency with his HK read that I prodded him on for D2.

Vote: Dolby

[pzelda]

I can't see your case for voting Dolby here over other options you mentioned. If you manage to post again before deadline, could you make an actual read?

[NANOOK]

vote: dolby

Can't remember if I've voted yet or not

Borgpicard is also >rand mafia imo

[Garden Gnome]

@Garden Gnome, why aren't you scum hunting anymore?

I was sleeping when you posted this.
Also, I'm clueless.

[Garden Gnome]

I was sleeping when you posted this.
Also, I'm clueless.

The mad rush to chop me has meant that town and scum are uniting over a fervent desire to make the game Gnome-free. It also means that scum are hiding easily behind a Chop Gnome banner. I'm not good at reading people anyway and this fun that you're all having at my expense makes it even harder for me to read, @Laurentus. I know it's not a great excuse for my appearing to stop scum hunting but it's my story. It feels like Where's Waldo? right now.

[Laurentus]

I can't see your case for voting Dolby here over other options you mentioned. If you manage to post again before deadline, could you make an actual read?

It's still because of the interaction between him and Tim on D1, which looks much like I'd expect Wolves trying to distance to look like.

I'm voting for him over the other potential options because he's more difficult to find than Vro. Despite the concern I expressed for Borg, I am still not wolf-reading him, still because of the D1 interaction with Tim. I am also not commenting on Csargo's alignment when I point out the unanswered inconsistency, I'm just reminding him and whoever else witnesses it that he hasn't answered, in case I die.

[Lewwyn]

Him recreating the conversation here makes me a dead man. I don't even get my n2 result because of getting blocked (I targeted Lewwyn after he stopped responding in our chat, suspecting him that he might have decided to kill me after getting all details about my role from me). Lewwyn, you probably won't get killed any time soon after you vanillazed yourself.

We'll see. I think a bunch is still happening behind the scenes. Want to trust you, can't trust you.

[Laurentus]

The mad rush to chop me has meant that town and scum are uniting over a fervent desire to make the game Gnome-free. It also means that scum are hiding easily behind a Chop Gnome banner. I'm not good at reading people anyway and this fun that you're all having at my expense makes it even harder for me to read, @Laurentus. I know it's not a great excuse for my appearing to stop scum hunting but it's my story. It feels like Where's Waldo? right now.

If you are genuinely town, my advice would be to continuously push and prod everyone, and get at the motivations for their statements and pushes. Even if it feels pointless, the more you keep everyone talking, the more opportunities there are for scum to let something slip. As a Townie, it's not expected that you're going to survive, and that's not the objective if you're town either. Mislynches will occur, and the Wolves will have a vested interest in getting rid of the towniest players in the night phases, as they can't mislynch them easily. So go down fighting.

[Laurentus]

My advice if you rolled Wolf and don't quite know what to do would be pretty much the same, lol, except that you want to push certain angles and cases more than others, while not making it obvious. You also need to maintain your enthusiasm as a Wolf, even though it can be draining. That's a lesson I only learned last year finally when I got Tim as a scum bud. So basically you'll up your and your team's chances significantly if you get out there and fight.

[Garden Gnome]

If you are genuinely town, my advice would be to continuously push and prod everyone, and get at the motivations for their statements and pushes. Even if it feels pointless, the more you keep everyone talking, the more opportunities there are for scum to let something slip. As a Townie, it's not expected that you're going to survive, and that's not the objective if you're town either. Mislynches will occur, and the Wolves will have a vested interest in getting rid of the towniest players in the night phases, as they can't mislynch them easily. So go down fighting.

All right. That's great advice and is much appreciated. I need to rethink this.

[Garden Gnome]

My advice if you rolled Wolf and don't quite know what to do would be pretty much the same, lol, except that you want to push certain angles and cases more than others, while not making it obvious. You also need to maintain your enthusiasm as a Wolf, even though it can be draining. That's a lesson I only learned last year finally when I got Tim as a scum bud. So basically you'll up your and your team's chances significantly if you get out there and fight.

I'm not scum, but this is also great advice for me for when I do roll Wolf. Still much appreciated.

[hollowkatt]

Sorry I've been busy IRL



chat is always open




I can answer yes. I knew and it also played into my paranoia since zelda says the ability got stronger (ie: more accurate) when he targets someone at the same time as someone one else. In fact it was his first post in the thread stating that he had a power and he assumes I had a power so that we could work together because his power was stronger when we targeted the same person. He told me his specific power when he locked me town after Tim was killed.

I did not mention this earlier because I wanted to get feedback before revealing his ability and possibly outing a town power role. If I was wrong about his scumminess then his role power would not be revealed.

The order of events on that reveal to me.

Z: Have a night power, I guess you have one
L: Yes I do
N1
Z: target either gnome or winston. Using action on Winston. I probably should tell you action but let you guess first.
L: Tracker? Watcher? My ability is role block one shot, can't hint at it or I lose it, yada yada
D2:
Z: I trust you based on Tim. I'm a delayed cop. I need someone else to target the same target to get a 100% true result. If I die my results get reported on death.
L: Targeting the same person as someone else the same night?
Z: Yes
L: Limited power?
Z: Unlimited
N2
Z: /lists possible targets and discusses possible targets
L: /no responds
D3
L: Sorry I claimed in thread.
Z: Okay I scanned you last night.


I'm revealing the entirety of Zelda's power as explained to me in the neighbor chat now, because he hasn't fully here and while I understand why he'd want to keep his power on the down low, part of my suspicion is based in the power claim itself. The role is unlimited, but doesn't give true results unless targeting the same person as someone else. Also the results are revealed on death. And its delayed. It just seems too perfect to sucker me into having my ability controlled. I'm also posting it now because if he does die his results are posted anyway right? And if someone else has a night action if they know zelda needs another night action to get 100% truth on his scan then maybe they can help. If they believe him.

I'm fine chopping both of you

[hollowkatt]

Also to add that if Zelda is innocent that's a pretty bastard role. That plus my role being lost if I or my neighbor hints at a result just makes me paranoid. It's possible that all of this is true and zelda is an unlimited, delayed town cop, who reports results on death and needs someone else to get true results and Monty designed it this way to create paranoia. One problem is that my ability is a global 1 - shot and not a direct target like Zelda's supposed ability needs in order to activate the 100% correct true condition.

In any case it's feel better revealing all that so that if I die, the information is not lost in the neighbor chat.

pzeldas role is a lot like parity cop in how it works, only instead of needing two nights of investigating two different people and comparing their alignment pzelda needs to target someone who's already been targeted.
I have no idea how that type of role would fit into either alignment and I'm inclined to chop it just because it's too weird.

Have you two been in a neighborhood chat the entire game or is this from N1?
If it's from N1 how long does it last?

[hollowkatt]

yeah.

Him recreating the conversation here makes me a dead man. I don't even get my n2 result because of getting blocked (I targeted Lewwyn after he stopped responding in our chat, suspecting him that he might have decided to kill me after getting all details about my role from me). Lewwyn, you probably won't get killed any time soon after you vanillazed yourself.

ok, you're just town I think. I don't think a wolf makes this post b/c they need to find a way to die then.
How do you feel about Lew now?

[hollowkatt]

I think these two come more likely from town than scum because of the former being tin foil and the latter a shade, but both feels like statements a slightly paranoid town would make and scum would try to avoid. It feels like you're reading in posts too literally to be a wolf. Meh, I might be wrong.

I agree with HK, that you should expand on most of the post and actually post some conclusions!!!

Especially given that El was chopped, not Night Killed...

vote: CutePanda

[CutePanda]

I'm ready to call Argon lock-town, here, really, so I'm also going to need you to explain your Borg read, here, Anu.

I still don't know what's up with Argon being so protective of Dolby, though.

It was just a theory , I brought it up yesterday as well , but I mentioned it as too farfetched . I theorised that LA exposed Tim as a part of a plan to get mech clear, I mean no wolf in their right heads will push Tim over the cliff.

[CutePanda]

Assuming Borg is town supportive , my reads would include HK and Gnome as current scumreads.

[hollowkatt]

It was just a theory , I brought it up yesterday as well , but I mentioned it as too farfetched . I theorised that LA exposed Tim as a part of a plan to get mech clear, I mean no wolf in their right heads will push Tim over the cliff.

I think that's a bad theory. No wolf tries to expose Tim to get mech clear b/c Tim is arguably the best player on any wolf team here. Why risk your best asset dying to clear an asset that then has to dodge "why aren't you dead yet" for the rest of the game?

[hollowkatt]

Assuming Borg is town supportive , my reads would include HK and Gnome as current scumreads.

case me then wolf

[Garden Gnome]

What gives you TMI vibes?

Maybe too confident???

[pzelda]

ok, you're just town I think. I don't think a wolf makes this post b/c they need to find a way to die then.
How do you feel about Lew now?

I think they're town for outing everything. Scum Lewwyn could kill me at night without drawing all that attention to himself.