Sorceror 17er Game Thread

[Newcomb]

Players Votes

Cuthillius 4 (katze, nebjiamn, Sleep, Raskolnikov)
Raskolnikov 3 (Monstrdude, Cuthillius, Montmorency)
Sleep 2 (ladd, Newcomb)
hollowkatt 2 (Dobby, Csargo)
Csargo 2 (Cape90, hollowkatt)
ladd 1 (Winston Hughes)
Newcomb 1 (Enderwiggin)
Montmorency 1 (Sunbae)
Enderwiggin 1 (zack)

1062

VC with ~20 minutes left.

[katze]

I suppose but I’d also expect that wolf team to think they’re just capable of doing enough and surviving the night? I mean, I would

im not fully discounting the possibility because i imagine ladd knows that i'm not... much of a commanding villager?

if newcomb doesnt have the vest today im not particularly interested in him dying today is really where im getting at. i still do not really like his posting at all but at the worst there's still two other wolves and an entire day+dead ladd to look through to find them

[Sunbae]

Vested player should probably wait as long as possible to fire if villa

[katze]

Vested player should probably wait as long as possible to fire if villa

id prefer the around ~24 hour mark personally

[nebjiamn]

i dislike that you said "clearing" because that implies something a lot stronger than anyone actually said

it just doesn't seem that partner-y to me; I could be wrong

Fair, but in posting and skimming from phone and seeing people say he?s no longer a wolf and I haven?t read a single post of his that?s been villagery. His posting the latter half of yesterday in particular felt charmin soft, so I don?t see a big reason to give cred to 2 very experience players for something as tame as ?katze lead eod? (I know it?s not just that, just forgive me again for posting from phone)

[Montmorency]

Monty, have you read Ladd for spew?

Somewhat.

I read the flip before I read the posts from after I left, I honestly was thinking cuth seemed w/w with ladd before he voted ladd at the last second lol. I thought rask wasn't posting that great during EOD but he also voted ladd, though seems like this was just self-pres.

Monty could be a villager, but he is also a filthy filthy busser and should not be cleared IMO (esp cuz the way ladd treated him was a bit odd if monty is town imo, plus Monty tried to unvote anyway).

That is not true at all though, biased take.

I mentioned Star Trek II from a year ago on CFC-by-MU, and the exact same thing happened, where there was a sudden push onto a maf at the last minute, I joined it, pushing the maf over the top, unvoting at the last second to let the tie rand - to answer Dolby, because I make a doctrine out of wagonomics and like to promote contested D1 wagons.

rask wasn't posting that great during EOD but he also voted ladd, though seems like this was just self-pres.

Newcomb is the key, because if scum shows that Cuth, Sleep, and Rask almost certainly can't be scum by wagonomics. And I'm pretty sure there had to be more scum than ladd in a wagon or at least proto-wagon during EOD, given how many of those there were.

- weirdly defensive of monty after he got votes? and the ways he was arguing it werent super great reasons

See my EOD wall from when you left.

rask + ladd w/w doesn't seem like a possibility to you?

Rask could have voted Newcomb, or promoted another wagon earlier in EOD (Winston started ladd wagon around EOD-30?), hence daypass. How do you evaluate his post lamenting his ladd vote, right after the vote?

monty if you think i bus there i have no words for you lol

I have you the highest-leaned player, what do you want?

yeah i think if it was a goon flip sure

but losing sorceror esp when a strong player is

going beyond like bussing in order to clear with that degree of things being up in the air into just actively antiwincon territory

Correct.

[nebjiamn]

im not fully discounting the possibility because i imagine ladd knows that i'm not... much of a commanding villager?

if newcomb doesnt have the vest today im not particularly interested in him dying today is really where im getting at. i still do not really like his posting at all but at the worst there's still two other wolves and an entire day+dead ladd to look through to find them

Mmm, ok. I still need to catch up but I’m ~ok with this line of thought I suppose

[nebjiamn]

Newcomb wagon - Ender/katze/Sleep - upper-null (Sleep might trend down, or lock clear if NC scum)
Sunbae upper-null
Dobby, Cape, HK, NC null
Zack, Csargo, Dolby lower-null
Nebbie scum


Cuth, I think I'll lock ya for a couple days, but not permanently given how you discussed ladd's slot throughout the day. Winston, Rask, you get a day pass, and probably a lock clear if NC is scum. Hopefully Star Trek II is reprising, except with only the good parts. It's hard to believe, but not a single one of you was in Star Trek II (though HK was probably aware of it, and he participated in the Mario 2 debacle).

Nebbie, I believe you could be the Mafia Stalker now.

Zack, are you sure you're not with Csargo? Although I do note that while I was slanking, ladd offered some kind of wack analysis about me being a "perfectly competent wolf" supposedly based on having read all my games or something - and you correctly identified this as townspewing me (see my walls).

It's is extremely likely that there was at least one other maf among the many protowagons around EOD, and potentially even among Newcomb or Rask. Overlooking D1 scum multiwagons has killed a successful town more than once in my relatively-recent experience. And with this many competing wagons, it's at least 95%, the details of which will always have to be guessed when forming plausible wagonomics associations moving forward.

@ both Zack and HK: Zack, in Mass Effect you hosted as Dolby was consensus scum-read and sacrificed (Logic sub). HK, you were town with me in Mario 2 when Dolby subbed in late onto a winning Mafia team and easily sealed the deal.
Figure out if he's clearable today pl0x.

Anyway, for doing all the things and ranking Zack/Ladd/Newcomb highly, Vote: Nebbie

Let the anointed please suicide Newcomb today, unless you're maf. It provides excellent info on Sleep, katze, Winston, and Rask at a minimum.

****

I expected Cuth to die, but OK.

Just so it?s clear, I did not have newcomb ranked highly, I just had him as someone I would likely not lunch yesterday. By EOD he was my top singular wolf read but I didn?t have the balls to lunch him

i did have Ladd as a villa read as well as Zack. I?m not sure what the problem is with having Zack (and possibly newcomb!) in that list?

[Newcomb]

Players Votes

Newcomb 2 (Enderwiggin, Sleep)
Csargo 2 (Cape90, hollowkatt)
hollowkatt 2 (Dobby, Csargo)
Raskolnikov 2 (Monstrdude, Montmorency)
ladd 2 (Winston Hughes, Cuthillius)
Sleep 2 (ladd, Newcomb)
Cuthillius 1 (Raskolnikov)
Montmorency 1 (Sunbae)
Enderwiggin 1 (zack)

1118

Alright with 2 min left it was pretty wide open.

Yeah it was definitely more fluid. monte's 5:01 unvote is pretty lol

I guess you can't like, lock clear rask off that vote. Still, though. I don't see a way I vote for him unless the game really takes a turn.

[Zack]

Fair, but in posting and skimming from phone and seeing people say he?s no longer a wolf and I haven?t read a single post of his that?s been villagery. His posting the latter half of yesterday in particular felt charmin soft, so I don?t see a big reason to give cred to 2 very experience players for something as tame as ?katze lead eod? (I know it?s not just that, just forgive me again for posting from phone)

it's more like how ladd top towned newcomb from the get go and never really expanded much or doubted it. But also didn't defend him all that much from all the pressure (did he defend him at all?).

What is the comp of the wolf team with ladd and newcomb chilling as the only two on sleep for so long?

idk, it looks more like ladd was just wanted a villa newcomb to leave him alone but didn't actually care about the possibility of him dying (and maybe tactically did not return for EOD in case he could have just stayed away and let newcomb die)

[Newcomb]

id prefer the around ~24 hour mark personally

Yeah that seems right. I think the ideal way to handle it as v is claim around the halfway point, then fire the morning before EoD so we get a good 8 hour-ish chunk to take the new flip into account.

[Dolby]

decided to just iso ladd rather than leave the thread i need to go soon

do you have a read on me/zack's push on you?

you seem to care more to argue the argument than to sort if we are wolves pushing you iyam

ladd's second post is still pushing ender but kinda weakly. At this point I think he's got three people (one of benneh or newcomb i forget, zack, hk) agreeing with him on Ender having bad posting.

zack seems villagery. benneh is my top villa. lettuce form the masons triumvirate

hk said some stuff wolves prob dont say

i liked mont's opening for exact same reasons as sleep

sunbae seems wolfy



i'll help benneh [get the game going] is what I meant


https://media.giphy.com/media/nktAE4mw5EcSI/giphy.gif

sunbae

ladd is townreading benneh zack hk bc they're all following him and agreed with his push. I'm gonna call all of them town.

That random sunbae vote whack af though, especially when he can just vote Ender here and is townreading three people for pushing Ender (imo at least). Completely unsubstantiated across multiple posts at this post (including his first which I didn't include here). Don't think it can't be w/w

to pile onto sunbae:

- I too didnt buy the first post (in fact i was the first to call it out!)

- i think his second string of posting was pretty flat, the focus on cape was wolfy imo

- i get being openminded/not having strong opinions but i think he is taking it too far where it circles back to being done just to look villagery (and i am 99% sure its a strategy i have seen him use as a wolf in either s3 sf or the wildcard), esp when I feel like there is plenty to talk about (in his defense he seems to be picking it up now)

- he gave me a strike




his explanation for the joke thing makes perfect sens eimo - he clearly thought it was a serious post at first and then when he realized it was a joke he backed off

for the rest of his posting, i am inclined to agree with you. he seems more like a villager who is posting whatever is on his mind and getting in trouble for it than a wolf

expect i dont really villa read him as strongly as you (seem to)

he's just starting a second push on sunbae while ender which he also started is still going strong, and is coming up with reasons on the spot

think it makes sunbae v

i will prob be around even less tomorrow

villas

newcomb
zack

benneh

katze
sleep
HK
mont
ladd
cape

yeah zack, hk, and whomever of newcomb/benneh said that ender was sus before post 150 is probs town

i'll give you the advantage too

enderwiggin

moves off of sunbae to ender in the 500s, don't know the vc at the time, will look at it later

531 just also feels like zack is not a partner to me but like idk why just vibes

i don't think sunbae handles my push like this if he is a wolf and knows i am a villager and right

mostly the whole warning his top villas that i may be a wolf pocketing them seems like genuine concern rather than something a wolf would ever think to do for show

and in general i got the impression starting from last night already that he was getting increasingly more frustrated with my push on him (feel free to correct me if i am wrong tho) and holding it back

his wall post seems fine too



I read a couple of monty games on this forums and he seems to have no problems posting as a wolf. can the orgers elaborate on why they think he is a wolf from his 3 posts?

eh maybe not v/w, could be theatre. Still feel like him kinda randomly pushing him was an attempt to establish a wolf-motivated second wagon though

vote:ender

maybe i randed wolf so much in these things that I forgot how to village lol

dunno game seems very hard to me now. I could see it going...a lot of different ways and am just down to get some flips

sleep will prob get villaread for his posts since i went to sleep but imo they are pretty bad. he really reminds me of myself when i have a wolfread as a wolf and i just keep forcing seeeing my wolfread's posts as wolfy instead of trying to see if i am possibly wrong

newcomb/hk are both bad wagons imo

yeah I'm just gonna call Ender a villager and ender/sunbae an attempt to establish v/v wagons early

ladd kinda engages with sleep in a way that feels low level annoyed at them later on, probably not w/w

i dont really feel that great about ender being a wolf either quite frankly, i just have no better ideas besides a shruglunch and see you all tomorrow

leave vote on MY BOY

express regret preemptively

profit

honestly a lot of ladd's posting makes more sense if he thinks Katze is a guy

alright i need to run seeya

[nebjiamn]

I feel like making the silly post and observation that if I were a wolf and newcomb was a villager, you can bet your sweet ass I gather the fortitude to yeet him into orbit last night

i expect no one to care about this or factor it in cause wifom but lol if I’m wolf with Ladd and let that slip away I’d never forgive myself

[Sleep]

How do you feel about Ladd attacking me and you shortly after we suspected Cape?

that is the question

yesterday i thought ladd was chainsaw defending cape because of that and i think that came through in my questioning of him

but that kind of thing is...malleable, i dont want to look into it too deep because you can get fooled by it and it can be just whiteknighting a town to make someone look bad?

so i'd like to use cape's own posting as my primary way of readign him

i guess the most concerning thing is that cape mentioned ladd as a suspect but never really went in depth there in comparison to pushing, for instance, winston, who at the time was playing in a super LHF way

and it was kind of a weird to have ladd in his wolfreeads because it didnt seemingly fit with the others

and that was on my mind for a lot of yesterday


idk, ill have to look it over again

[Zack]

ladd is townreading benneh zack hk bc they're all following him and agreed with his push. I'm gonna call all of them town.

wait, what? why?

i was in no way "following" him either

[Dolby]

wait, what? why?

i was in no way "following" him either

your three names are like

the three that i noted as also sussing ender super early in the game

it seems very much townread people for supporting agenda

following probably a bad word

[Zack]

also there was a post katze had where she noted that ladd quite obviously saw Newcomb make a post about feeling uneasy wrt sleep's push on cape, then he immediately pounced on that and presented a sleep case and pretended like it was an independent thought

[nebjiamn]

Dolby, Ladd often (always?) uses male pronouns for katze, fwiw

[Zack]

your three names are like

the three that i noted as also sussing ender super early in the game

it seems very much townread people for supporting agenda

following probably a bad word

just seems like a p shallow reason to write the three of us off as town

[Dolby]

Dolby, Ladd often (always?) uses male pronouns for katze, fwiw

that uh

makes a lot of his posts make a lot more sense

i kinda looked at a lot of his posts and thought ???

Was under the impression that Katze used primarily she/her

[Zack]

i think dolby's wallpost kinda stinks

[Zack]

I feel like making the silly post and observation that if I were a wolf and newcomb was a villager, you can bet your sweet ass I gather the fortitude to yeet him into orbit last night

i expect no one to care about this or factor it in cause wifom but lol if I’m wolf with Ladd and let that slip away I’d never forgive myself

so you're saying you were all w/w/w, eh?

[nebjiamn]

so you're saying you were all w/w/w, eh?

[Montmorency]

Just so it?s clear, I did not have newcomb ranked highly, I just had him as someone I would likely not lunch yesterday. By EOD he was my top singular wolf read but I didn?t have the balls to lunch him

i did have Ladd as a villa read as well as Zack. I?m not sure what the problem is with having Zack (and possibly newcomb!) in that list?

That's true, but you also said

there's an aloofness to newcomb's posts right now that i have 0 idea how to process

just call it scummy?

i'm not sure it is otherwise i would

Piggybacking off others reads on him. Pocketing katze and voting with her on Cuth right after putting NC in a triple tie. Just feels sus.

And has to be emphasized that Winston challenged you during EOD. Voting ender to make him the lead wagon, and claiming mafia stalker...

You claimed Newcomb as a teammate, and it is possible. I commented on all this at the time I believe.

darn, monty beat me to a potential rask vote and now he's gonna hop off if i join

???

[Sleep]

it's also not how ladd treated newcomb at all when they were w/w in rocks fall, fwiw

it's more like how ladd top towned newcomb from the get go and never really expanded much or doubted it. But also didn't defend him all that much from all the pressure (did he defend him at all?).

What is the comp of the wolf team with ladd and newcomb chilling as the only two on sleep for so long?

idk, it looks more like ladd was just wanted a villa newcomb to leave him alone but didn't actually care about the possibility of him dying (and maybe tactically did not return for EOD in case he could have just stayed away and let newcomb die)

i should say, i dont really gel with the reasoning in the first quote - if u rand wolf with someone in a game and get beat, and then rand wolf with them in another game, ur going to try to change tactics because obviously whatever u did the first time didnt work. and i have p significant issues with the way they handled/talked about one another still

i dont really want to get into it rn because i dont want to spend time arguing over newcombs alignment rather than solidifying my reads on other ppl, and id rather newcomb be left to analyze things on his own if he is a villager, but i just want it known. ill get into it at some point.

[Zack]

can you give me an overview of where your head's at newcomb?

[Zack]

vote: dolby

[nebjiamn]

That's true, but you also said





Piggybacking off others reads on him. Pocketing katze and voting with her on Cuth right after putting NC in a triple tie. Just feels sus.

And has to be emphasized that Winston challenged you during EOD. Voting ender to make him the lead wagon, and claiming mafia stalker...

You claimed Newcomb as a teammate, and it is possible. I commented on all this at the time I believe.



???

I was not piggybacking off anyones reads on newcomb. I expressed a wolf read on newcomb way before that post. When newcomb came back later in the day, he was posting on a manner that I DID NOT wolf read at the time because it was, well, very aloof, like I said. I know newcomb is capable of posting strong as a wolf so I didn’t want immediately ascribe that as wolfy for him because I considered a world where he was indeed just a villager taking it easy and not entirely in tune with the thread.

the last post was a joke because you did something I don’t remember now when I voted or expressed suspicion on someone you were votning. I am not going to bother responding to the posts about me claiming to be wolf with you, newcomb, and katze or being the mafia stalker, cause lol

[Sleep]

i also think sussing ender because he and ladd were attacking each other day 1 feels kind of silly, even if they did end on different targets at the end of the day

[Zack]

i also think sussing ender because he and ladd were attacking each other day 1 feels kind of silly, even if they did end on different targets at the end of the day

I've expressed suspicion of ender all game, plenty of which had nothing to do with ladd. why are you being so reductive to make it sound flimsy?