Sorceror 17er Game Thread

[Sunbae]

Newcomb,

I don't mean to be pointed or anything. We have two flipped wolves and 4 known villagers on day two. I know this is a laid back casual game and it's unreasonable to expect going super hard, but at some point I need you to just tell me who the wolves are from your pov. I've enjoyed your posting today and think your reasons for town reading some people are good, but townreading people in an 11v2 games with two dead wolves is easier to do for a wolf and calling people wolves in that game state is hard for them.

So like, not due to self-interactions or how easy/hard things are. Just "based on ladd and monstr/dolby being wolves and how things have played out, i think these people are the wolves".

[Sleep]

I don't really agree with what we're doing today. There are 11 villagers vs 2 wolves. So far we have seen no signs of wolf in-fighting (Ladd just ignored monstr, monstr just ignored Ladd). Yet we have people kind of pushing Mont (voted Ladd), Sleep (got pushed hard by Ladd), Ender (pushed and pushed by Ladd), and Cuth (voted Ladd). I totally understand that there could be a wolf there but like, I also feel like the best way to implode this lead is to start infighting with people that have good things going for them, start killing each other, have them flip town, and then just collapse into chaos.

fwiw i dont expect cuth to go over, i just wanted to indicate my suspicion and get his attention, ill swap to something viable at eod

[Cuthillius]

ftr i think monty mostly fits if like either of hk/newc are w and not super else actually

it was predicated off a thought of wolves being some degree of dead in the water

i don't think ladd going over was that inevitable given the resistance against it it's kinda wild that it really happened

but i also think monty's vote and unvote to tie the wagons is kinda wack and there were things i don't remember from looking at his sod posting and overall trajectory that didn't make me feel perfectly warm n fuzzy inside

but i also don't think this feels like newc w really and idk about hk

it's more of a mental note to self and making sure things don't crystallize too much in that direction sort of deal than actually wanting him to die more than other people today

[Cuthillius]

ok i really should do stuff but i'm going to talk through why i felt strongly about ender v at the time because newc and maybe others also asked about it

i don't think it's a very partnery thing for someone with ender's approach to wolfread their partner for a kinda dubious reason when a lot of the rest of the thread is pretty casually being like yeah that guy's pretty villagery, and then when being intensely pushed over this read and like directly offered contrary explanations for a read that again w!ender would have made up and be able to tell was kinda dubious not be like oh you're right this is a bad read or even eh you might be right but i think this makes more sense but instead get quite defensive and assume i'm trying to catch him on a contradiction

that's just not how wolves react

and if you fit this into the framework of how he's been approaching the game more broadly

that wolf read lines up with a lot of his other reads in terms of depth and style, it's not like this weird manufactured thing that only applies to ladd

i think it's possible that someone like ender would like intentionally do a bad push on a teammate and know it would be wrong, but i have a hard time seeing him act around it the way he did

[katze]

sup

catching up from where i closed the thread yesterday, EoD is in ~6 hours right?

[Cuthillius]

dobby's read on me also just feels like not v!dobby's read on me a bit

because sure i was like not super put together but it was also

i was definitely playing in the sort of approach range that would line up with how i'd wolf d1 in this sort of circumstance where i'm actively trying not to get super town-read but still being kinda intentional about engaging where i engage

[Cuthillius]

sup

catching up from where i closed the thread yesterday, EoD is in ~6 hours right?

five and a half yee

[Raskolnikov]

I actually agree Sunbae. I am going to finish Newcomb's ISO and be around to discuss.

[Cuthillius]

i think rask probably fits into more worlds than monty

but also that feels like a conversation for another day

[Cuthillius]

i take that back i remember monstr stuff rask is just v

[Sleep]

ok i really should do stuff but i'm going to talk through why i felt strongly about ender v at the time because newc and maybe others also asked about it

i don't think it's a very partnery thing for someone with ender's approach to wolfread their partner for a kinda dubious reason when a lot of the rest of the thread is pretty casually being like yeah that guy's pretty villagery, and then when being intensely pushed over this read and like directly offered contrary explanations for a read that again w!ender would have made up and be able to tell was kinda dubious not be like oh you're right this is a bad read or even eh you might be right but i think this makes more sense but instead get quite defensive and assume i'm trying to catch him on a contradiction

that's just not how wolves react

and if you fit this into the framework of how he's been approaching the game more broadly

that wolf read lines up with a lot of his other reads in terms of depth and style, it's not like this weird manufactured thing that only applies to ladd

i think it's possible that someone like ender would like intentionally do a bad push on a teammate and know it would be wrong, but i have a hard time seeing him act around it the way he did

i do think ender is more likely v than not but this is a thing where ur confidence on it kind of worries me, because wolves tend to be more certain on spew type reads like this than villagers are, where they always have doubt in their minds

(sorry if this is offputting, its just the thought crawling around inside my head)

[Cuthillius]

i'm glad i never listened to my gut trepidation on you zack

i was kinda worried about you all d1 but it never got to the point where it felt worth it and you had some moments

[nebjiamn]

Idk benneh, I mean you could be right but I think that's such a small thing (and i think ladd got genuinely flustered at an alt being in the game) compared to my reasons to town read sleep (cape case, ender defense/newcomb press wrt ladd spew all seeming totally fine). I'm not good at picking up on small things like that, sorry

ftr i town read sleep too. its just a minor tinfoily thing hence me asking for the sanity check

[Cuthillius]

i do think ender is more likely v than not but this is a thing where ur confidence on it kind of worries me, because wolves tend to be more certain on spew type reads like this than villagers are, where they always have doubt in their minds

(sorry if this is offputting, its just the thought crawling around inside my head)

that's bizarre

like it makes sense but is just weird in this context is all

also if it makes any difference ender was in the first game of online forum mafia i ever played almost exactly nine years ago

[Dobby]

Fwiw, I'm almost certainly vesting Dobby if we chop town today

Fuck ye I'd love that


Like, I really really don't want to die today

Its against my very nature to like, drop dead but I do that as either alignment. I want to say I'd be more relaxed if I were wolf because I could play the players or something, but I'm honestly just very mediocre as town and like, I genuinely can't stand out as town from my wolfgame and that's probably what outs me in this seat over and over. I spend more time than I have on the games, which ends up in something half-assed reading posts from where I joined thread and everything past that - but I still haven't read the posts leading up to eod when I was absent, and I haven't fucking read the posts from like days stsrt until the bomb had went off

And i still can't get myself to just reading those posts.

It also stresses me that eod is 3.5h before I need to wake up for work, and tomorrow is the last day I work in 10 days, and not being able to be here (if I sleep in time) last two or three hours leading up to eod means I can easily be the one voted out and no matter how well I play or what I do, I. Likely one of the top contenders for that spot. But ye I genuinely like


What do I do here

Do I keep reading and try to form correct reads about stuff? Because I am genuinely happy with my reads with my lists based off what I have read. If I go down this path, it'll 100% be for "I want to save myself" reasons and it'll take a ton of work and on top of that defending myself against people repeatedly saying "it's just dobby". Like, I won't be able to do much past what I have done that might change any thoughts on me.

And yes I'm capable of renting like this as wolf as well, and I probably would if I were, because that's just how I play and it sucks being expected to give 200% in every game I play or there's "something missing" or whatever but I guess I've got myself to blame for that.

Back to "what do I do". I'm genuinely, and I said it before, happy with what I did yesterday (as in second half of d1), and like, I never am, there's always a ton that bugs me about what I've done but not this game, even after the flips. I had sus on ladd and sure I wasn't after his ass leading up to eod, nor at eod, but I was in no way saying he was towny or such. I was wrong on monstr and I couldn't care less about that either. I had a dumb "he doesn't tilt like this if he's wolf because he's in a group" etc etc so I gave him a freebie, that was wrong too, but that's about it from what we know now. Sunbae sure I had my tinfoil but that's because they manage to like dig into my soul and have a big bite everytime I dare to trust em, but it was a fairly firm townread, and zack was also barring some tinfoil, also a firm townread. I'm not going to judge my game based on monstr or not having voted ladd during eod (when I had been away for hours and just rejoined when there were a few minutes left of the day), like even mentioning that despite having tried to explain it, is just not reasonable, you should be able to see that yeah it's not logical for dobby to come back in and make all the right moves. And I'm saying that because several of you still do despite me having pointed it out several times.

Ivr been focusing on people's reasons for playing like they do, trying to see where they come from when they write something, how shallow the reads are, does it make sense from 'their' perspective even though I don't agree nor would interpret stuff that way? The contents don't matter as much for me, it doesn't usually unless I feel like I have to or that what I say would actually matter. I said it before but yeah this is a game of big ego's and even if I had like a photo of someone nuking someone else, I wouldn't reach through to some others in here to convince them that the person is wolf. (Okay that might be exaggerating because I do that a lot as well) so the few attempts I have as "please read this look at this look looooook" don't really lead anywhere and barely get acknowledged. So I don't focus on that. I do what I can to push the game forward and provide what I feel like I can provide and help out with, and maybe I don't and maybe its very discrete but it's what I've been forming my reads based on and it's there if you care to look for it. I'm not gonna poop out reads or associatives or stuff based on vote counts or wagons or whatever, because its so easily fake able and reading into any of that is just a lottery in most cases, and even if it's right it's just because of like, chance, and not skill. Because I genuinely believe all these things can and do get played by any semi-capable wolf, in smol discrete ways doing stuff that "yeah this isn't a classic wolf move but someone will prolly notice this and give me town points for it"

[nebjiamn]

i really wanna be selfish and bully sunbae into giving me the bomb tomorrow

but he'll never do it, im just too pure :(



what emoji can i use to emotionally guilt you into thinking i'm pocketing you and thus worthy of a bomb tonight

[Cuthillius]

and i think i'm specifically confident about this sort of read on ender because of their playstyle in a way i wouldn't be confident about making reads on, say, newc

and i'm also doubling down because i have a better feel for aspects of this than a fair number of people here and i think a lot of people have been trying to get ender killed because he's somewhat easy to get killed see: ladd lazily pushing there lmao

but it's 100% because he "does wolfy stuff" and like 0% because he does wolfy stuff imo

[katze]

Not sure how much I want to read into this but the flat response to sleep's big wall is like... ehh I was gonna say +villa for sleep. Maybe it is a little. I'm just not sure how much I should read into any of monstr's posts given what happened. Like you can't really ascribe normal wolf agenda/valuation/thinking to someone to blew up like that and clearly had some stuff going on.

im leaning towards it still being ~overall +villa for sleep, it looks a lot like the response i'd see a lower effort wolf give when they see a post they know people will townread - and it's generally harder to have that thought when it's a wolf written post?

if by "given what happened" you mean The Incident?, then maaaaybe - in the draft game on MU that monstr was mafia in he basically told his teammates to bus him from pregame so i wouldn't be surprised if that happened again?

[Dobby]

I think I just created a new pasta

Anyways, tldr is i don't want to die but I honestly don't think I can do anything about it because people have lowkey made up their mind already


Or like yes, I'd love to get a vest but saying that sounds wolfy but I'd also not post it if I were wolf because.i don't want to look wolfy. Etc. Wifom, love it.

[Cuthillius]

vote: katze

uwu

[Dobby]

Sunbae can you acknowledge the 5 minute thing not being a thing

[Cuthillius]

also benneh i saw your uwu and i love you for it profoundly

[Cuthillius]

hugs to dobby

[Sleep]

that's bizarre

like it makes sense but is just weird in this context is all

also if it makes any difference ender was in the first game of online forum mafia i ever played almost exactly nine years ago

and i think i'm specifically confident about this sort of read on ender because of their playstyle in a way i wouldn't be confident about making reads on, say, newc

and i'm also doubling down because i have a better feel for aspects of this than a fair number of people here and i think a lot of people have been trying to get ender killed because he's somewhat easy to get killed see: ladd lazily pushing there lmao

but it's 100% because he "does wolfy stuff" and like 0% because he does wolfy stuff imo

the context is helpful, thanks

[nebjiamn]

ive said it in thread already but ill say again in a smaller post that i think cape is the best elim today

i'm a bit sketched by what felt like a building case against HK from lots of folks and i town read that slot pretty hard. maybe its LOL me but i personally have a hard time getting the progressions from cape ITG so that's where i'd rather go

but similar to sunbae i don't wanna bend the thread to my will so much as i want to at least clearly express my thoughts on those two

[Dobby]

dobby's read on me also just feels like not v!dobby's read on me a bit

because sure i was like not super put together but it was also

i was definitely playing in the sort of approach range that would line up with how i'd wolf d1 in this sort of circumstance where i'm actively trying not to get super town-read but still being kinda intentional about engaging where i engage

Can you define that dobby read on you a little more pls

(I also posted a less certain v reas of you today if you haven't seen it yet)

[Raskolnikov]

that's bizarre

like it makes sense but is just weird in this context is all

also if it makes any difference ender was in the first game of online forum mafia i ever played almost exactly nine years ago

Oh, you are a noob. It explains it. Things are starting to line up

[Dobby]

It's suppose dto say I fight against it as either alignment, I don't mean to say I drop dead regardless of alignment


Yes I definitely didn't read through the wallpost I'm not a nerd (giggles at the ones who read it)

[Cuthillius]

Can you define that dobby read on you a little more pls

(I also posted a less certain v reas of you today if you haven't seen it yet)

i didn't sorry

uh you were just sorta confidently v-reading me d1 for the most part

and i think it's maybe fair but also i felt like i was playing in a space in the thread wrt engagement and stuff that honestly lines up with how i often approach d1s as a wolf where i'm there and engaging but not leaning in too hard because i don't want to get strongly v-read d1 lol

even though it was more because i had two exams and a bunch of work to do and so i was only able to engage so much but was still like present a fair bit

and you often take a more uh cautious look at me than most people because you know my style of approach

and it surprised me a bit that you weren't more sketched out by my general patterns of engagement than you were

[Sleep]

ive said it in thread already but ill say again in a smaller post that i think cape is the best elim today

i'm a bit sketched by what felt like a building case against HK from lots of folks and i town read that slot pretty hard. maybe its LOL me but i personally have a hard time getting the progressions from cape ITG so that's where i'd rather go

but similar to sunbae i don't wanna bend the thread to my will so much as i want to at least clearly express my thoughts on those two

i was just typing a list and kind of coming around to this despite earlier trepidation

the...i guessmost concerning thing is he had both monstr and ladd in his wolf leans day 1 but pushed two villagers instead with reasoning that was weak and im still not sure i click with what hes pushing today, altho i need to revisit it