Sorceror 17er Game Thread

[Sleep]

i will put in the legwork today to review everyone. tired right now but will have time this weekend.

[Sleep]

in all seriousness though @Sleep where's your head at with the game? I struggle some times to understand your grasp on the thread.
I get dobby, I get katze, I get raskol. I struggle with understanding you, cuth, and cape.
@Cape90 can you give me a little run down with where you're at as well? I'd appreciate it.

sorry not tonight. need to review. i fully admit to being lazy yesterday but it was because i was pretty wrong on most things and wanted to respect the wishes of dead towns

[hollowkatt]

my read on cuth is more than gut and i never cased cape, i had bad gut feelings with some cape posts that made me want to go cape before monty but my poe after the bomb yest was basically always the same 2 names, monty more out of respect for everyone else (cause earlier in the game i had townread monty a decent bit but understood why people disagreed) while cape was my pet "im keeping him alive until later game to see if hes obvtown and he's not obvtown"... read? that doesnt sound like a correct sentence but whatev

im not going to afk today because like, even at my laziest i am never going to disrespect a game or playerlist *that* much. but im not voting cuth and if todays wagons are cuth or bust then im sitting happily on my vanity wagon and going "i told you so" or "lmao that was all an elaborate reaction test because i felt bad for the wolves" tomorrow



its fine my post was not exactly nice cause i wrote it after extended tests of my patience (oog)

i guess i become alison when im annoyed with people

personally I'd rather do cape today
primarily for the reason that cuth is on a pretty even keel this game, his wim and activity levels aren't really fluctuating based on what's going on and who is potentially on the block, even when running up wolves/blowing them up, which btw GOAT play from both Csargo and Sunbae with the vests.

Cape otoh seems to become more active when people suspect him, then returns to being less active. He'll shitpost and vibe for a while, then someone will say "hey what about cape" and he'll produce some content, and then fade again.
To me that's more about surviving and making it to the next day than anything else.

I also have been re-reading Sleep and really really liked this post: 181 - Sleep reacts to very early game Cape posts

vote: Cape90

[hollowkatt]

sorry not tonight. need to review. i fully admit to being lazy yesterday but it was because i was pretty wrong on most things and wanted to respect the wishes of dead towns

cool nbd we have time.

I am going to be out of town mid-day Sunday, have to go to a funeral home visitation. Distant uncle passed. Was in the hospital from Thanksgiving. It's alright though.

[hollowkatt]

I'm also going to go back and re-read the early game Ender push to see who was pushing back against that and what reasons they were giving. Ladd I think we have all we're going to have from his posting. Monstr/Dolby didn't really do much of anything though dolby did have a wall or two maybe to look at.

That really leaves just Ender in terms of his posting, and the early push against him to review.

[hollowkatt]

would cape fake not knowing ender = blade if they're paired?

[hollowkatt]

Hi.

You played with me not long ago.

...

[hollowkatt]

Yeah I can. He feels stilted, like his content is forced, and that he's struggling to get into the groove of the game.
I tend to ego solve and compare what people are doing to what I'd be doing in their positions. This would tangentially apply to cape as well tbh:
If I were a wolf in this player list I'd be extremely concerned with making the towniest posts I could make and trying to fit in with the overall flow of the game so as not to get caught out immediately. Unfortunately when I do that I tend to be really obvs a wolf as I'm basically trying too hard. Ender (and Cape) feel like they're trying too hard.

The downside to ego solving is that other people are not me (I know, this is a shocking revelation) and don't necessarily react to things the same way I would. This isn't stopping me from making the read.



And before someone asks, my "no chop" vote is totally legit. This is a player list I am going to struggle to read and seeing who dies over night if we don't chop anyone might help in solving. Otherwise I'm likely going to just sheep someone I town read that I perceive is smarter than I am, or be on some weird vanity wagon at the end of the day.
So I figured I'd throw out not chopping as an option, see what people think of that, and go from there.

and yeah I'm being serious

Just gonna put this back into the spotlight. I think it's still valid. Also apparently I was the first vote on Ender?

anyways, ignore the whole no chop thing, that was dumb and bad, but I stand by what I said about Ender and Cape at the top. Both of them were posting in a stilted "please town read my jokes" type of way, Ender ignored Capes avatar reads list, I just kinda think yeah, it's still legit.

[hollowkatt]

thanks

i didn't really like your post calling out katze as v for thin reasons and then shrugging the vote onto ender without explanation so i wanted to see where you were on him.

ender doesn't strike me as someone to be worried about wolfing in this playerlist but i've only played with them one other meaningful time that i can remember and they were a villager. still, just vibes, i don't know that i agree with the basis of the read although i do appreciate your process

To expand a response to this: It's not so much that I wolf read Ender as "having the fear" of wolfing in this list, it's that I wolf read him for trying too hard to be freeflowing, jokey, and looking to scrape town reads off of those interactions. And in the process of doing that he felt flat and stilted.

[Cuthillius]

i will put in the legwork today to review everyone. tired right now but will have time this weekend.

this

[hollowkatt]

Feels off to me

Caveat I don't think I know you that well

does this post spew Sleep as town? Kinda maybe thinking it does.

[hollowkatt]

does this post spew Sleep as town? Kinda maybe thinking it does.

mostly b/c if they were w/w together this post doesn't need to exist at all as there are better ways to distance than this.

[hollowkatt]

i applied it more to turbos/mashes than normal games (and I also noticed it first in my own wolf games iirc)

sometimes as a wolf you see a post where you feel like you either 1) have to answer to or 2) have a smart answer to but to look like you didnt just pop in to answer that post you then also latch onto a random other post that happened before



i do think ender reaction to zack/mine (but especially zack really) push is the wolfiest thing in an overall p villagery thread


newcomb seems an obvious villager imo

immediately before this post cape drops a post town reading ender, then ladd comes in with "no ender bad" but no vote and no oomph. Obvs ladd doesn't want ender to go over here, but is cape trying to defend and ladd trying to attack so that ender goes deeper as "not quite townie but high (less sus) in the poe" position?

I dunno. Something about how cape being contrarian on ender rubs me wrong.

[hollowkatt]

might just be doing that thing where I confbias though

[hollowkatt]

I really don't like that HK post, EXCEPT for the No Chop thing, like that felt towny to me, but the whole forced content thing, I think the read is a little weak sauce. I kinda been treating this game like a light game so that I don't spam the thread with posts, especially since there is only 30 posts per page, I feel like that just encourages more words/things said per post versus spam posting.

maybe i'm a sucker, but that didn't feel forced at all to me. i asked for a live lookin on his process and he answered, like, absurdly quickly, and to get such a detailed insight into how HK was reading the game/ender felt very very transparent. part of this is a timing read that I don't think you can catch on re-read, but it really wasl ike a 2-4 minute turnaround from me posting (inb4 its 30 irl minutes) and HK responding there

i think the underlying part here is that HK has/had a process in evaluating ender and even if it wasn't something i found convincing or truly AI for ender, it toold me more about HK which is what i wanted anyway

So this was a thing that happened as well.

[hollowkatt]

Uh lemme parse my thoughts into lists.

I dislike Ladd's treatment of me particularly. The read on me (The whole "Backwards quoting" thing) feels entirely forced and also liiiike, unrealistic.

Raskol is obvious scum because of his lack of posts.

Sunbae I was leaning townish but the whole Monstr/Cuth read feels like he realised he fucked up and backed up. Pending explanation that makes my brain do the good wobly jelly I'm going to stare at him.

Monstr feels weaksauce.

I was townreading Cape but the whole Sleep thing is making me wonder.

ladd flipped wolf

Raskol I think has been town but I really want him to show up so we can talk.

Sunbae flipped town
Monstr flipped wolf

cuth hasn't flipped

cape read here is weird b/c there's no explanation for it yeah? Like he explains Ladd, Rask, Monstr/Cuth, but Cape just gets "the sleep thing makes me wonder" and that's markedly different to the way he's addressed the rest of them.

Monstr had some sus at the time. Ladd otoh was fairly not talked about right about now fwiw.

meh

[hollowkatt]

one thing I have noticed (I'm re-reading the entire game from D1 beginning btw) is that most of Enders interactions are with the dead, Cape, myself, and Cuth. Very few thus far with Sleep, Katze, Dobby, or Raskol.

not at all sure what that means.

[hollowkatt]

👍

currently thinking it's best for both of you (@EnderWiggin primarily) to focus on other avenues than eachother

ender: i think HK is p villagery and think your read on him is... it kinda feels like you feel obligated to have A Read there in a similar vein to how i feel when i play with 1-2 FoLers in a playerlist? i dunno. i think you're wrong, and it's souring my view on you

I feel like I have to have a feeling about this post.

Sometimes town says "hey you two stop sniping at each other and see if you can find common ground".
Sometimes it's a wolf playing peacemaker.

I think though katze is town and my interpretation of this post is that katze is trying to do the whole "find common ground thing" because the back and forth between ender and myself wasn't acrimonious per se.

Also katze I think is the type of wolf to hard defend if they can get away with it whereas here katze is using it to express some amount of suspicion on ender where it really didn't need to exist. Ender for the most part was under the radar except for me so katze wading in here doesn't really make sense from wolf?katze perspective. There's no need to do so, I'm not a threat to enders position even as people were widely town reading me.

[hollowkatt]

anyways I'm going to bed now. Tag me if there's anything you wanna talk about.

[hollowkatt]

oof dead thread is dead.

I'm out for most of the day today, will check back in maybe 7ish hours

[Cape90]

Like what kind of sentence is that even "if you're gonna grief and kill my clears" lmao, how is that griefing when... cuth hasn't really been considered cleared by anyone but you and its for like, gut reasons? I cleared cuth as well because of tone and interaction with monstr iirc so it's kinda not fair writing that lol

It's a game of mafia, saying don't touch my clear and then vote parking and implying you don't have much interest in trying to skew stuff towards your preference is... idk you might feel demotivated but that's not how to play the game tbh. It's unlikely anyone else will vote cape, are you just gonna park and afk?

Look Dobby, I really think that Cuth's interactions with wolves look like Cuth doesn't have TMI on who the wolves are. I have really tried looking at katze posts but there is just about nothing all that clearing early on in the game for them so I think they are doing this because they are just mafia who want to go for the easy push

Vote: katze

[Cape90]

I feel like I have to have a feeling about this post.

Sometimes town says "hey you two stop sniping at each other and see if you can find common ground".
Sometimes it's a wolf playing peacemaker.

I think though katze is town and my interpretation of this post is that katze is trying to do the whole "find common ground thing" because the back and forth between ender and myself wasn't acrimonious per se.

Also katze I think is the type of wolf to hard defend if they can get away with it whereas here katze is using it to express some amount of suspicion on ender where it really didn't need to exist. Ender for the most part was under the radar except for me so katze wading in here doesn't really make sense from wolf?katze perspective. There's no need to do so, I'm not a threat to enders position even as people were widely town reading me.

Hm. This might be a goodish point though but I should look at the fuller context there

[Cape90]

I look at what katze said to ender and I think it's still like, possible that's a w/w interactions though as I have seen wolves try to distance themselves like that. I was trying to look at early posts earlier from katze, but man is it super inconvenient

[Cape90]

cape read here is weird b/c there's no explanation for it yeah? Like he explains Ladd, Rask, Monstr/Cuth, but Cape just gets "the sleep thing makes me wonder" and that's markedly different to the way he's addressed the rest of them.

This is literally town points to me. Like majorly so. Wolves love to make weird and hedgy reads on town, it's because they know that I am town and that their mafias are mafias. This really doesn't incriminate me like you think it does

[Cape90]

immediately before this post cape drops a post town reading ender, then ladd comes in with "no ender bad" but no vote and no oomph. Obvs ladd doesn't want ender to go over here, but is cape trying to defend and ladd trying to attack so that ender goes deeper as "not quite townie but high (less sus) in the poe" position?

I dunno. Something about how cape being contrarian on ender rubs me wrong.

I thought they were playing like the other Sorc game I was in with them. But they were also notably less jokey, but I still thought they were town based on content

[Cape90]

would cape fake not knowing ender = blade if they're paired?

Okay just gonna say, I think this is really NAI

[Cape90]

Rundown: it's katze or Cuth but Cuth has better interactions with mafia methinks

[katze]

Look Dobby, I really think that Cuth's interactions with wolves look like Cuth doesn't have TMI on who the wolves are. I have really tried looking at katze posts but there is just about nothing all that clearing early on in the game for them so I think they are doing this because they are just mafia who want to go for the easy push

Vote: katze

It's unlikely anyone else will vote cape, are you just gonna park and afk?

everybody in the world is trying to kill someone i have cleared if i were mafia i'd be very happy bout that

instead im choosing to continue defending them in favor of killing you, who i think is way wolfier by play and by meta

im ignoring the negative gut feelings to this omgus post because tbh i expected it

[katze]

anyway i don't really want to defend myself because frankly i don't care that much if i go over

with that said im just going to drop a selfmeta "if i look bad earlygame i'm probably town, lmao" and go back to playing video games without backing up that statement at all

[Dobby]

everybody in the world is trying to kill someone i have cleared if i were mafia i'd be very happy bout that

instead im choosing to continue defending them in favor of killing you, who i think is way wolfier by play and by meta

im ignoring the negative gut feelings to this omgus post because tbh i expected it

I don't think meta is ever going to be a way to clear me and I really mean it. I genuinely can't tel you what would be clearing for me in any game in isolation except for that I just fight it with my everything and sometimes get there sometimes not.


And i think the issue this game atp is that the last wolf is in katze/cape/cuth and we can kill 2 but the third is in f3 which is an issue

And the way you're approach this point of the game as well as some bits honestly makes me consider you over the others. Youre like slowly planting seeds to include more ppl in the poe and the way you're approaching a cuth yeet and saying you have tinfoil or whatever to like stall until th point where you're in a probable f3 is just, good wolfplay and enables you to win at that stage. It's kinda how one would have to play it as wolf at this stage and you're doing exactly that so if I go with gut i 100% vote you. I don't think I'll vote cape today at all. Might go cuth but I want rask to post some as well but idk how much that'd affect my vote tbqh

And like, whenever I try to present a read or thoughts recently you've kinda shut it down pretty resolutely which makes it tougher to just actively share stuff and make cases and that's just also not towny at all.

Main issue is that it's still a super busy weekend for me, good thing nobody is posting I guess, but not really.

I'm just gonna do what I believe in for now vote: katze

If it's 2 out of 3 it's prolly katze cuth in some order for me