Sorceror 17er Game Thread

[katze]

that post was replying to cape

i was quoting you because "kat is going for the easy way out" when you're telling me that nobody else is going to vote cape was a :really: moment

[katze]

the fact you're (or anyone) clearing cape over cuth is legitimately baffling to me and the fact that he's my top wolfread and your trajectory is "take cape to f3" is imo awful

[katze]

...man that post is living in my head rent free because i've been the most ironclad about my PoE out of anyone alive and you're accusing me of trying to expand it when you are giving me a free invitation to expand it by wanting to kill cuth while my true PoE has been 2 people for the last day and my "this is my PoE for lock" has been fairly stable

sorry in advance for being annoying about this but man if cape is alive in f3 i will be angy

[Dobby]

the fact you're (or anyone) clearing cape over cuth is legitimately baffling to me and the fact that he's my top wolfread and your trajectory is "take cape to f3" is imo awful

Idk if I wrote the easy way out but rhe way you're playing it is literally how you need to play to get to f3 and have a chance tbh


Idk where you get that I'm clearing cape but I dotn know if I'll find where cape goes before you/cuth. I man if we get to tomorrow I will not just lock someone in and leave, I'll have time by then (tomorrow gameday) and I'm not just gonna lock smth in and hope for the best tbh

[Dobby]

...man that post is living in my head rent free because i've been the most ironclad about my PoE out of anyone alive and you're accusing me of trying to expand it when you are giving me a free invitation to expand it by wanting to kill cuth while my true PoE has been 2 people for the last day and my "this is my PoE for lock" has been fairly stable

sorry in advance for being annoying about this but man if cape is alive in f3 i will be angy

I was down to go cape for a long time but uh it's still a pretty unique poe you had and thats going to be hard to just be convinced by "I believe in this i want this to happen" or smth

[Dobby]

I'm also sounding like very harsh/mean but no hard feeling it's just I'm having a hard time being convinced by the stuff you've written. I had my own case on cape for a fairly long bit and it kinda just, fwll behind other things that made more sense

[katze]

Idk if I wrote the easy way out but rhe way you're playing it is literally how you need to play to get to f3 and have a chance tbh

by refusing to let cuth die?

by barely defending myself at all?

like... i could explain how i usually play situations like this as a wolf but instead i'll ask you this: if you kill me today, will you vote cape out tomorrow over cuth?

[Dobby]

by refusing to let cuth die?

by barely defending myself at all?

like... i could explain how i usually play situations like this as a wolf but instead i'll ask you this: if you kill me today, will you vote cape out tomorrow over cuth?

Self defense hasn't been really needed tbh, and what you"usually do" doesn't really skew me in any direction - I mean, would it do it for you re someone else? Prolly not. So yeah, I can't really say your legacy would make me blindly listen to your reads. If so, cuth would be the clear vote today cuz of benneh/rask. So yeah, if you don't make a clear case that makes a lot more sense I'm gonna have to go eith what I have on cape

I'll prolly start blank slate with whoever is alive tomorrow, its f5 and I'm planning to just wim it up insanely tbqpph (pp stands for peepee poopoo), I'll see if I have time but irl tomorrow is packed as well so I'm gonna have to do with what I have

I know you've talked about cuth and cape but the stuff you wrote yesterday, my general memory of it is just "cape doesn't feel towny, cuth feels towny" and notch more grounds for your reads, and it's not enough to make me go yea I trust kitty ze

[Dobby]

I'm also at a graduation party and not much of what I write prolly makes sense so sorry about that I shouldn't post at all tbh

Love u kat

[katze]

alrighty then

so basically unless i make a massive body of work explaining why i think cape is a wolf then you're just going to sleepwalk me -> cuth and let cape into f3 despite nobody reallllllly doing anything to convince me cuth is a hit while i have several reasons to think he's not one

im not going to make a body of work because i'm lazy and that's not how i play

shrug, i think you're town so i'm not going to get angry at this, i think the PoE is still winning as long as people don't second guess themselves in F3

but deep down there's a part of me that feels entitled enough to towncase themselves and im sad i can't just ping benneh to godread me tbh

have fun at your party! <3

[Dobby]

alrighty then

so basically unless i make a massive body of work explaining why i think cape is a wolf then you're just going to sleepwalk me -> cuth and let cape into f3 despite nobody reallllllly doing anything to convince me cuth is a hit while i have several reasons to think he's not one

im not going to make a body of work because i'm lazy and that's not how i play

shrug, i think you're town so i'm not going to get angry at this, i think the PoE is still winning as long as people don't second guess themselves in F3

but deep down there's a part of me that feels entitled enough to towncase themselves and im sad i can't just ping benneh to godread me tbh

have fun at your party! <3

No not massove body of work but something past "he's just wolfy"? I don't think that's too much to ask if you think it's the gamewinning solve, because whatever you're talking about I don't think it weighs that hard and your motivation for it hasn't really bee clear?

I think I townread cuth for most of the reasons you've talked qbout but I think keeping a townread at this point based on that (unless you've reevaluate and stuff) is a bit of a unwarranted freebie for him tbqpph

If all you have is feels to go on then that's fine too


Idk if I explained it but I think the way you're playing now is exactly how a wolf needs to play to get to f3 and have a chance. If you don't follow the same path as a lot of others (ie not have "unique reads you deep down know you won't make happen) then you can keep saying nobody listens to me and it won't look weird. If you agree on cuth for example, changing target tomorrow and then the day after without looking sus yourself and getting yeeted will be really hard if not impossible

I don't think that trail of thought is hard to get but I do get that it doesn't feel worth trying to towncase yourself or scything but idk like there should be a way for us (all of us) to try and solve this past saying this is my splve do what you want bai

[katze]

ugh

okay im just going to tell a story

in dragonvale mafia (i was mafia, you've probably heard of this game) a very similar situation to this one happened, where a player i was hard shielding was getting tinfoiled and i was in a situation where i knew it was a ML i kind of needed to win given my position in thread and, well, numerically

so i spent that entire day phase kinda twiddling my fingers trying to figure out how to get him killed without shooting myself in the foot by either outting myself to him or outting myself to everyone else

and like, i feel like if you read that day phase it's really obvious i was struggling to do so there, because my wolf style of "look good" and my wolf agenda of "you need this kill" were in direct conflict and my alive wolf partner at that point was negative utility for both of these reasons

ironically im 99% sure illario (a villager in DV) has pushed v!me after that game for treating people weirdly in this situation too but thats not important

my point is that i think cuth is clear in a vast majority of worlds and i think that the last wolf really, really wants him to get MLed this game. i've explicitly fought to keep cape alive because i know he's a villagery villager as time progresses and is prone to being wrongly read in the early game (as i was hosting a game where this literally happened that ended some point during this game)

and... he has not been villagery. when my only reason for not wanting him dead sooner was because i knew he could clear himself if V and he is not doing that then... well, i feel like that speaks for itself?

i guess i'm just prone to being scumread whenever i have any opinion when it comes to "a player i townread is no longer being townread" because i think my read still holds

[katze]

so i'll just throw this at you and check the thread later cause i'll prob be out for a while

why is cuth a wolf

why is his EoD1 not clearing

why is he a higher priority than cape

[Dobby]

ugh

okay im just going to tell a story

in dragonvale mafia (i was mafia, you've probably heard of this game) a very similar situation to this one happened, where a player i was hard shielding was getting tinfoiled and i was in a situation where i knew it was a ML i kind of needed to win given my position in thread and, well, numerically

so i spent that entire day phase kinda twiddling my fingers trying to figure out how to get him killed without shooting myself in the foot by either outting myself to him or outting myself to everyone else

and like, i feel like if you read that day phase it's really obvious i was struggling to do so there, because my wolf style of "look good" and my wolf agenda of "you need this kill" were in direct conflict and my alive wolf partner at that point was negative utility for both of these reasons

ironically im 99% sure illario (a villager in DV) has pushed v!me after that game for treating people weirdly in this situation too but thats not important

my point is that i think cuth is clear in a vast majority of worlds and i think that the last wolf really, really wants him to get MLed this game. i've explicitly fought to keep cape alive because i know he's a villagery villager as time progresses and is prone to being wrongly read in the early game (as i was hosting a game where this literally happened that ended some point during this game)

and... he has not been villagery. when my only reason for not wanting him dead sooner was because i knew he could clear himself if V and he is not doing that then... well, i feel like that speaks for itself?

i guess i'm just prone to being scumread whenever i have any opinion when it comes to "a player i townread is no longer being townread" because i think my read still holds

I think it's still.. uh.

I think we are moving past eachotehre a bit in this convo but

1) my doubts/"svumread" on you is pretty independent from your cuth read. The little that can be related to it is the stuff I've said about how you need to play to get far in this as wolf and I really bieve it'd the only way you can play it if you want to win as wolf. You need to have a plan and it kinda needs to be this plan if you don't want it to end up a lottery thingie

I think with what you're saying, and we kill cape today. What then? Would you reconsider cuth?

I literally was inthe same position as you the other day. I had the same arguments, monstr interactions, eod 1, etc. Despite the monty unvite, you just.... preferred Cape. A lot of things has made me go wait kat has tmi or is just really cool and good at mafia, but prolly both tbh

Idk if you saw the cases on cugh but they explain it a lot better than me. Its also tough because cuth activity has gone from fairly high to basically nothing. I know this isn't supposed to be a high effort game but it makes it tougher. I have no idea where uths mind is and I haven't for a good portion of the later half of this game.


So also, you position where you say that I scumread you because of your cape read, is just... not true and I'd feel a lot better if that got acknowledged in some way lol

[katze]

okay i got distracted by the pokemon mash ending so hi sooner than expected

i don't really think this is how i'd play this game as a wolf, personally... i don't want to address that too much cause i don't want to turn this into a game where i stubbornly defend myself all day

i wanted cape over monty because, and i explained this at some point (apparently ISOs on this site are only the last 100 posts which is silly but at a glance its not in my last 100 posts) that i thought cape was liklier a wolf than monty because, throughout this entire game, i have had approximately zero concrete reasons to find cape as town, while i (at EoD1) had found monty to have a very villagery tinfoil and he also had the EoD1 ladd vote in his favor

if cape dies today and flips V then id legitimately be pretty shocked. i don't know if i'd go cuth next, i'd consider it for the #deadvillagers but idk. i feel pretty strongly rn that cuth is "the misyeet that the last wolf needs" and im "the misyeet that the last wolf doesnt have to fight for"

i've seen the cases on cuth and i don't recall any of it moving me, if you or someone else would dig up those posts for me i'd reread them but aorn i have little interest in finding them

also i do think your scumread on me is mostly due to my positioning on this, so... i'm not going to take that back? if you'd like to explain why you think i'm mafia then feel free, but if you do then i'll address that instead ig.

[Dobby]

If i fewl up for it slash have time I will

I qlso don't think monty should get any cred for his close on ladd considering when it came and the unvote - sure he was town but I still think its in isolation extremely wolfy eod tbh


Regarding cuth being the misyeet the last woolf needs, I just don't u derstand it. It makes more sense to push someone that's not in the immediate poe, the immediate poe gets cleared out and then you can say I told you so now in f3 let's ypink cape because I've been pushing him for three days

Idk if I can convey it in any other way but yeah

Ye I can pull out some posts I wrote when I tried to deep dive into wolf interactions and eod and stuff and also the relevant benneh slash dead villagers stuff but it'd be as much work for me as for others

And i want rask to join soon and write about where he's qt, and not q 50 post by post catchup slash push of cuth, but like, more concentrated this is what and why

And no my scumread on you isn't mostly based on your positioning on this. It's part of it but not everything. Don't take it back tbh


I just anticipate that if activity level increases it'll end up with all 7 of us butting heads and not leading anywhere based on yesterday as well, it's why I made the post compiling everyone's poes and stuff but idk

I just want to solve this tbh

[hollowkatt]

I think it's still.. uh.

I think we are moving past eachotehre a bit in this convo but

1) my doubts/"svumread" on you is pretty independent from your cuth read. The little that can be related to it is the stuff I've said about how you need to play to get far in this as wolf and I really bieve it'd the only way you can play it if you want to win as wolf. You need to have a plan and it kinda needs to be this plan if you don't want it to end up a lottery thingie

I think with what you're saying, and we kill cape today. What then? Would you reconsider cuth?

I literally was inthe same position as you the other day. I had the same arguments, monstr interactions, eod 1, etc. Despite the monty unvite, you just.... preferred Cape. A lot of things has made me go wait kat has tmi or is just really cool and good at mafia, but prolly both tbh

Idk if you saw the cases on cugh but they explain it a lot better than me. Its also tough because cuth activity has gone from fairly high to basically nothing. I know this isn't supposed to be a high effort game but it makes it tougher. I have no idea where uths mind is and I haven't for a good portion of the later half of this game.


So also, you position where you say that I scumread you because of your cape read, is just... not true and I'd feel a lot better if that got acknowledged in some way lol

I think wolf katze doesn't try to steer the thread towards cape when everyone and their brother wanted monte. My POE is basically cape/cuth and frankly don't care which goes first.

I think katze has been town, I think dobby has been town.
I'm deathly afraid of Raskol wolf here and desperately want him to show up and start posting. I know he sometimes has IRL things that happen that keep him away from the thread. I do not wolf read Rask not being here.

I don't think it's Sleep either.

[Visor]

Players Votes

Cape90 2 (katze, hollowkatt)
katze 2 (Cape90, Dobby)

[Dobby]

I think wolf katze doesn't try to steer the thread towards cape when everyone and their brother wanted monte. My POE is basically cape/cuth and frankly don't care which goes first.

I think katze has been town, I think dobby has been town.
I'm deathly afraid of Raskol wolf here and desperately want him to show up and start posting. I know he sometimes has IRL things that happen that keep him away from the thread. I do not wolf read Rask not being here.

I don't think it's Sleep either.

I think it's just Saturday and people not me have lives lol

I mean independently of who it is, from the situation they've been in, upper poe qll game basically, i think as wolf kat needs to do exactly that to get to f3 without looking sus but I've also said this in several posts now so I'll chill with that

I'm in my way home and like, not sober but I'm feeling a good vibe rn so I might do stuff unless I fall asleep or something worse.

[Dobby]

Honestly we should vote visorslash for being nerdy

[hollowkatt]

@Dobby what's the case on katze? I'm trying to understand your perspective there and I'm struggling a little bit.

[hollowkatt]

I think it's just Saturday and people not me have lives lol

I mean independently of who it is, from the situation they've been in, upper poe qll game basically, i think as wolf kat needs to do exactly that to get to f3 without looking sus but I've also said this in several posts now so I'll chill with that

I'm in my way home and like, not sober but I'm feeling a good vibe rn so I might do stuff unless I fall asleep or something worse.

cool nbd.

I'm here in and out this evening/tonight, then tomorrow until about 2ish hours before EOD I'll be driving to and from a funeral visitation so most of my work is gonna be today and I'll be live vibing for eod

[Dobby]

@Dobby what's the case on katze? I'm trying to understand your perspective there and I'm struggling a little bit.

The thing ive written over and over tonight or from before that? :P

because i feel like the thing ive written shoudl be pretty clear even though ive described it like shit (as in the idea should still be graspable)


im home now and by the pc, but also uh not super somer but i have some energy and i genuinely have no idea for how long ill be here tomorrow and i feel like my thread presence has been close to constant despite not being able to participate (as in i was on my phone every two minutes during the party because i cant stop updating shit) so idk how much more i want to do atm but

here we go tbh

[hollowkatt]

The thing ive written over and over tonight or from before that? :P

because i feel like the thing ive written shoudl be pretty clear even though ive described it like shit (as in the idea should still be graspable)


im home now and by the pc, but also uh not super somer but i have some energy and i genuinely have no idea for how long ill be here tomorrow and i feel like my thread presence has been close to constant despite not being able to participate (as in i was on my phone every two minutes during the party because i cant stop updating shit) so idk how much more i want to do atm but

here we go tbh

yeah I'm sorry I was trying to dodge just re-reading all your posts. tbh it's fine, go enjoy your evening, I'll read your stuff and we can chat some time tomorrow before EOD

[Dobby]

No not massove body of work but something past "he's just wolfy"? I don't think that's too much to ask if you think it's the gamewinning solve, because whatever you're talking about I don't think it weighs that hard and your motivation for it hasn't really bee clear?

I think I townread cuth for most of the reasons you've talked qbout but I think keeping a townread at this point based on that (unless you've reevaluate and stuff) is a bit of a unwarranted freebie for him tbqpph

If all you have is feels to go on then that's fine too


Idk if I explained it but I think the way you're playing now is exactly how a wolf needs to play to get to f3 and have a chance. If you don't follow the same path as a lot of others (ie not have "unique reads you deep down know you won't make happen) then you can keep saying nobody listens to me and it won't look weird. If you agree on cuth for example, changing target tomorrow and then the day after without looking sus yourself and getting yeeted will be really hard if not impossible

I don't think that trail of thought is hard to get but I do get that it doesn't feel worth trying to towncase yourself or scything but idk like there should be a way for us (all of us) to try and solve this past saying this is my splve do what you want bai

@hollowkatt i think this one explains my view of it best but i can rephrase it now that im not on phone if needed ( tried to reowrd it in a few posts but idk if any of them made sense)


im at home now and by the PC with a cup fo tea. its 3am so idk for how long ill be around but im vibin so ill be around for a bit.


idk if ill be here for eod, i have friends over for dinner and movienight (ive got some awesome wagyu beef and stuff so its gon be awesome)

aft erthat i might have a walrus reveal so i uh, ill prolly sxtill try to be here for eod if i know myself but the hours leading up to it dont count on it





ill prolly be on phone playing mafia during the movie though not gonna lie to myself

[hollowkatt]

@hollowkatt i think this one explains my view of it best but i can rephrase it now that im not on phone if needed ( tried to reowrd it in a few posts but idk if any of them made sense)


im at home now and by the PC with a cup fo tea. its 3am so idk for how long ill be around but im vibin so ill be around for a bit.


idk if ill be here for eod, i have friends over for dinner and movienight (ive got some awesome wagyu beef and stuff so its gon be awesome)

aft erthat i might have a walrus reveal so i uh, ill prolly sxtill try to be here for eod if i know myself but the hours leading up to it dont count on it





ill prolly be on phone playing mafia during the movie though not gonna lie to myself

Thanks Dobby, ur the best!
Enjoy the friends and food :)

[Dobby]

Thanks Dobby, ur the best!
Enjoy the friends and food :)

ur face is


hk


are you town, did i misclear you because you were nice in our exchange


dont lie to me

[Sleep]

okay so

my game activity fell off because i was endgaming a mash and it sucked away all my time and energy

i sincerely apologize for multitabling but i vastly underestimate how long i would be playing the game and how involved i would be given that i was playing on a gimmick


anyway now that that cognitive load is removed i can devote my full time and energy to this game (although, um, i am bad in these endgame spots)

[Dobby]

who's not a wolf:
neb
katze
dobby
hk

who is unlikely a wolf:
raskol
sleep
cape

who could be a wolf:
cuth
monte

this is where I'm currently at. I think neb, katze, dobby are obvs town. I think there are very good reasons to town read raskol, cape, and sleep. I think we're on cruise control to chop monte and I have very little reason to town read them. I think managing to vote all three dead wolves on D1 is either god tier luck, god tier reads, or TMI.
Cuth is in the bottom tier instead of the middle tier b/c frankly I think they've dropped off pretty damn hard. But probably it's just monte

vote: monte

if you dont want broken quotes the linked post is the one im quoting below

what if:



I guess the big question of the day is this: was there a wolf on Ladd and given their role and given the way the wagon flashed out of nowhere I'm inclined to think wolves were trying to save Ladd more so than gain credit from being on his wagon. Obvs they could not be flashy about saving him b/c it would out them.

But here's a thing:
This is the vote count from 18 minutes before EOD:


Notice a complete and utter lack of Ladd wagon other than the lone Winston vote.
Here we have one wolf on newcomb, one wolf on sleep, and one wolf on raskol. I think none of those are buses.

Then we have the next count:


It's 12 minutes later and the Cuth wagon has vanished. Ladd still at 1 vote, Cuth has moved to Winston, the Raskol wagon has also dropped a voter.

One minute to go:


6 wagons with 2 votes each. At this point there is no telling who is going to go over. Nobody can claim any kind of credit from Ladd at this point as there's no real push other than from winston to get people voting for Ladd. He's the only one stumping for the chop here.

Contrast with the final vote count:


I think this shows Raskol and Sleep are town. If they are goons they are both bused to save Ladd here. I say this because again there was not a huge impetus to save Ladd. His wagon grew organically and votes were flying pretty quickly in the last minute or so of the game day.

I think it also shows that there was not a coordinated bus effort on Ladd. Kinda want to clear his whole wagon which is why I posted the first "what if" at the top.
I want to add Cuth to the "can't be a wolf here" bucket b/c why does he vote his PR on the back of Winston asking for Ladd votes when Cuth was voting Winston moments before he votes Ladd? It doesn't add up to me. I know Cuth is an insanely good player as both alignments but still, there's literally zero reasons to move to Ladd here as wolf goon when you can just stay on Raskol, not to mention moving off of Raskol puts the Cuth wagon clearly in the lead by 2 votes which is quite a bit to overcome in the last couple minutes of a game day. It did happen so it's not impossible but still, unlikely to me that Cuth is a wolf.

Then there is the monte question. I said earlier he had votes on each of the dead wolves on D1 and ended his day on the Ladd wagon.
Before that though he is pretty much parked on Raskol in the run up to the end of the day. Like Cuth what is the impetus to move to Ladd, what does wolf?Monte gain from doing that. I argue it's the same thing with Cuth. Monte wasn't highly suspected during D1, there was no gamestate reason for Monte to reach for credit like this. He also doesn't make much noise in terms of trying to capitalize on said credit.

I would argue Monte is town for the same reasons here.

So Rask, Sleep, Cuth, Monte town

Leaving
HK
Dobby
Neb
Katze
Cape

Remove myself, remove Dobby, remove Neb. Leaves Katze and Cape.

This is where I get stuck tbh. I can find reasonable reasons to town read both of them.

vote: katze

gonna try this on for a while and see how it feels.

which direction does this spew katze

Like on the one hand I can see wolfLadd telling wolf?Katze "go ahead and do whatever you want to do I'm pretty sure I'm not going over"
otoh I can see wolfLadd putting "bad reads town Katze" "in charge" of leading EOD b/c Ladd knows Katze isn't pushing on any of his team mates.

@hollowkatt i just clicked through a few pages afte rthis but can you explain these flips from kat lock to kat vote to some reasoning not leading anywhere to now saying kat town

i mightve missed a few flops and stuff in between but its easier to ask you than to iso on this godforgotten site (i just wanted to use that word no offense)

[Dobby]

anyway i'm gonna try to explain my mindset rn because i think the misunderstandings are coming from me being lazy more than anything and being misunderstood is a bit of a peeve of mine so i should stop not doing myself any favors:

i think this game is still easy; i don't really feel obligated to... try that hard to win it? like, i feel pretty good about it just being in monty or cape. if it's not there, i expect to get executed, and i might fight that a bit if it comes to it because i'm a stubborn bastard but i've already basically accepted it.


Alive: (9/17)
2. nebjiamn
3. cuthillius
6. Raskolnikov
11. Montmorency
12. roro__b
14. katze
15. Sleep
16. Cape90
17. hollowkatt

five clears still wins the game. i've been kinda solving as if i'd be one of them because i'm a villager but i get it. i'll be grumpy about it but i get it. five clears outside of myself should still be pretty easy anyway

my first clear is still raskol. i mean the lazy raeson is "lol if they're w/w with monstr" but also like, i still think they're way townier than the time i've seen them wolf (yes the situations are different, i still think the difference is quite massive), they're pretty unassociated with ladd as well... it's still lazy but i'm still confident it's correct

scond clear would still be benneh - this one is a lot less concrete in terms of "well they're obviously not w/w with the flipped wolves" - although i do think ladd treated benneh/zack p much identically and given zack flipped V he was prob just trying to pocket them both - i think benneh is just really villagery this game lmao. i was a bit paranoid towards EoD1 cause it felt like we were a bit too on the same page at times so when he just stoppd posting and kinda just sheeped me i thought it might just be deliberate, but ehhh. i've talked myself out of that and think from my experience with him he's kinda just a villager. yes this is mostly turbo/mash experience, shut up. newcomb flipping V only really reinforces this because in my experience it's way fucking harder to mindmeld with a villager about another villager than a villager about a wolf. also newcomb felt really strongly about it too :wowee:

third is cuth, and i really do not understand why people are trying to throw that name back out? i was tempted to put him above benneh simply because i think they're both villagers anyway and if they're both villagers then the order doesn't matter so me putting him higher would make people feel dumber if they went against the word of everybody, but i mean. i am technically more confident in the above two

anyway uh. again, the easy answer is "cuths EoD1 is just flat out terrible play if he's mafia ngl" but also like... there's a level of. i don't know the right word. i kinda just... feel like they're the same as they were in SF2 on like d3 onwards? the slightly-deflated-because-wrong cuth? idk. i just get about the same vibes. if the above two reads are a 10/10 in confidence this one is like a 9.5/10 still

number four... it gets a bit harder, i can't really pick one or the other so i'll just say both sleep and hollowkatt --

sleep because i'm pretty sure every player on D1 who asked about "who is sleep" has since then flipped mafia which probably just spews him V right there and now that i type this out why is this below cuth? i guess he did try to clear ender off of ladds flip? sure we'll go with that. anyway sleep is the player in this game that i read their posts and i kinda just naturally feel inclined to townread them. most games have one of these players, in my experience they're almost always villagers that i talk myself out of townreading out of paranoia at some point. i think the early cape case was still a genuine attempt to solve (note for the future: if the game is hard go double check who was under pressure around the time it got posted, i don't remember) and one of those posts that a wolf just doesn't write in most worlds

i guess there's still a little bit of paranoia here, because i feel like both of their EoDs weren't especially clearing off of memory, but i still think they're really fucking villagery and criticizing someone for being wrong on newcomb after *glances in a mirror* is kinda joycat of me

and then HK is. well, okay, i'll fully admit the fact he was basically shielding me earlier was a part of it, so the fact that changed saddens me and may have lowered him a bit subconsciously, but i think the dude's still just a villager off of posting alone. pretty sure he has some D1 posts that have aged like wine wrt "interactions with wolves" but i'm not opening an iso for a thoughtdump post that ruins the point of it

---

so like, i'm pretty happy with those 5

my thoughts beyond those 5 are like

well, i'm me, i'm town. hi me.

dobby has been pretty hard shielded by people i think are town and i'm not 100% sold on it personally but it kinda feels right, so i think you're probably town

and it leaves monty and cape, both people who like

i thought monty was villagery late D1. i recognize the reasons as not being great. but they existed. i recognize that the dead villagers have been significantly more anti-monty than they have been anti-cape. they haven't really been favorable towards either, tho

...i mean tbh if majority was enabled id have exactly zero problem killing either one first and then the other if it that doesn't end it but i want this game to be over or for me to die so i can do what i truly want to do and stop actually putting effort into this game. because i think it's solved. i don't think more effort is necessary. but i feel obligated to exist in thread because i agreed to play it, so here i am.

i'm not particularly happy with my play this game, and me slam dunking on the last wolf wouldn't change that either, so. i'd feel worse off if i were misclearing a wolf, i don't think i'd feel worse off if i got MLed because i frankly deserve it and have deservd it in multiple of my past towngames anyway

so... yeah. i deviated a lot from why i originally wrote this post but i'm pretty sure the intent is in there somewhere and if not then joycat

I mentioned this yesterday but

following this post i asked katze basically "okay so i'm in your poe" because i specificially wanted to include the word poe related to me to see how theyd react and what answer i would get, because, indirectly having someone in poe or even poe adjacent is a whole different thing than saying it straight out. And I got this answer which

i don't really think you're mafia i just personally have more concrete reasons to townread 6 people over you and probably would have/literally wanted you dead d2/early d3 if not for sunbaes shield

if i were going off of just last day phase and this one you'd probably be in the top 5 over... cuth or sleep?

idk. my point is more "i think it's in the bottom 2" than anything else and if it's not i'd be more willing to Put In Effort ig

The "OVER CUTH OR SLEEP" is the part i cant digest. I did ask about it specifically and got this answer
reading this from a perspective where i dont try to solve katzes alignment but like, put myself in their mindset in a t!kat situation and

wait did i do that

wtf past me LMAO

okay i dont have an answer to that ill assume it was more "hollowkatt should be higher" but

something something grumble grumble "it won't matter because they're all town anyway kill monty"

and it can just be a loltown thing but WEH why does it exist and it just adds to every other thing that makes me sus of kat.

And it feels tough as fuck to push kat because the indirect resistance from her makes me like, do it half-assed but. The things add onto eachother and i feel like there's an obvious reason for it.

i know it'd be really annoying if you were town and got me pointing out all these things that i mightve pulled out of my butt trying to find explanations in things that dont exist, but i gues its mafia and im bad at it so idk