Sorceror 17er Game Thread

[katze]

Not sure I like this inconsistency, like this is said then 3 hours later, boom bye newcomb

I really don't see how katze isn't invested in the game

That's like saying HK isn't invested in the game

cape what are you doing rn

like how are you reading this game at this moment

I'm bad at photochop but pretend I took the planet fitness logo and re-wrote it so that it says "iawy slander-free zone" instead of judgement free zone

[Newcomb]

I really don't see how katze isn't invested in the game

That's like saying HK isn't invested in the game

why are you randomly quoting a tiny part of a post I made at like the beginning of D1 and using it to shade me by making it seem like it should be held to the standards of the current state of the game?

[hollowkatt]

cape what are you doing rn

like how are you reading this game at this moment

ILY <3

[Dobby]

can you please answer me on why you think cape is a wolf? you've ignored me twice

I can try and throw something together, but I seriously, seriously tired so it'll be bad so I don't want to. "I saw a few posts I didn't like and I've mentioned them before" in combination with "cape/monty/maybe ender are the best options for me rn" probably isn't good enough, rifgt? don't think I have a compelling case because, uh, it wouldn't have mattered (see: me earlier cases this game) i know I said I'd read cape and minty but I've just been spamming the thread instead of doing useful things

[Dobby]

Oh and the fact as cape not shading me at all until I mentioned his name in a not good context :wowee:

[Cape90]

True, I'm getting a bit too caught up in this. It just kinda feels like an omgus when hk wrote a long post with made up stuff (that I legit refute and nullify or whatever the word is) in my answer to him, its basically statements that are straight up incorrect, and get a "good post" from zack, and then you say "I'm just gonna trust em". Like, how do I put my brain in a world where are 3 are town? I don't think I'd be able to even if i got it physically planted somewhere

And yeah monty is on my agenda for the day so us cape because he's kinda flown utr.

I will say we have a really solid poe, there's always tinfoil that we can bring up, but hopefully when sunbae and zack die we have at least one more wolf dead or game is over. But just laying down flat and saying "yeah I'm just town but I need to die if you can't see it" is not a thing that's going to happen either.

Also sunbae is literally in my head with each of their posts so that should amount to something lol

I was a wagon and a strong contender for vote off at some point during day 1 so I wouldn't consider myself under the radar.

I sort of like this refute to HK's lil wallpost which Dobby says has "made up stuff" and HK gets stuff incorrect

I don't exactly know what the last part talking about Sunbae is exactly saying, like it cant be like they are noting Sunbae's postings because they are mafia since they are confirmed town yeah? I was thinking it was because Dobby wants to work with confirmed town perhaps? That would make sense to me

[Dobby]

I was a wagon and a strong contender for vote off at some point during day 1 so I wouldn't consider myself under the radar.

I sort of like this refute to HK's lil wallpost which Dobby says has "made up stuff" and HK gets stuff incorrect

I don't exactly know what the last part talking about Sunbae is exactly saying, like it cant be like they are noting Sunbae's postings because they are mafia since they are confirmed town yeah? I was thinking it was because Dobby wants to work with confirmed town perhaps? That would make sense to me

Sunbqe has been describing exactly what's going on in my head in a few posts and it's like, described me (and a couple of my standpoints) in better words than I could do myself

Did you read the post with "refutes" or are you talking about the example in this speicfic post?

[Cape90]

btw, this is the post who got me thinking HK might be a wolf trying something different. (the first part of it) I am going through his ISO quickly to see if it sticks

the first part of that isn't really wolfy when I look back on it. Not at all. Even if it is wrong, I feel like the whole

The downside to ego solving is that other people are not me (I know, this is a shocking revelation) and don't necessarily react to things the same way I would. This isn't stopping me from making the read.

kinda wraps it around to it being alright

[Cape90]

Did you read the post with "refutes" or are you talking about the example in this speicfic post?

okay I wasn't thinking of the implication of that word there

[Raskolnikov]

Not sure I like this inconsistency, like this is said then 3 hours later, boom bye newcomb

yeah inconsistency. Like I think some of his posts look good but I can't help thinking he only SRed katze and that didn't go anywhere. Also I am mostly testing this wagon rn, and now that has been said, it's mostly over I guess.

[Sleep]

I think ur concerns are fair as the spew on you looks a lot better, but I will elab here

before that, I was getting the opposite feeling of ladd responding to you about me

ladd would do this thing with me to where they didn't want to give me a full town read but use dodgy language to portray that



the specification on thin villa lean is a good example of this.

There was also the fact I was on the very bottom of a chonky townreads list ladd made

there was something else

I'm kinda done looking at ladd for like, ever, feel like its a waste

i dont see how any of this really spews you town or why you would think that it does, sorry

[Cape90]

I think Rask is town for a couple of points they made like them saying they don't wanna discount Mont for the unvote at EOD day 1 and feeling like they post in this stream of conscious way, was thinking along the lines of

can Monty and Newcomb be together? prolly not (why unvote in this case?)

hmm

like that's a good example of what I am talking about

I liked this sort of meta read on HK, I wanted to revisit there myself, but before EOD

I really need to ISO HK before EOD. I am clearing him for his Dobby vote but need to see the dynamic at the time. I had that thought yesterday that HK was actually trying to gimmic his town meta (relaxed, jokey, with solvey posts mixed in as the game progresses) but failing to sus folks convincingly. He switched to Dolby once Dolby flipped red (was starting to gear up toward my slot) and have mostly posted about him since then? hmm

I don't exactly know what the bolded means, like you can't swap to somebody who already flipped???

[Cape90]

i dont see how any of this really spews you town or why you would think that it does, sorry

fair enough

[katze]

cape what are you doing rn

like how are you reading this game at this moment

@Cape90

[Raskolnikov]

I don't get good vibes from this shade Rask was laying down on Dobby when Dobby was saying

lol. You just asked how I could be flipfloping on Newcomb's slot, but u are doing the same here. dude.

Beside I am not following you. I accused him of trying to save Ladd pretty directly. Ofc he refuted it but it doesn't change the facts. he voted me without a word when there were other options he had been sussing prior to that. What you read is me calling him out about it but also acknowledging he could ultimatly be a villager with bad timing and not verbose enough about his own progression. Hence why I tryed to pressure him to get more out.

[Cape90]

cape what are you doing rn

like how are you reading this game at this moment

im mostly just going through different people's isolated posts and seeing what sticks out and trying to get a solve since I feel like I could go over today and I want to make a good blueprint for when I die, if I don't cool

[Raskolnikov]

I think Rask is town for a couple of points they made like them saying they don't wanna discount Mont for the unvote at EOD day 1 and feeling like they post in this stream of conscious way, was thinking along the lines of



like that's a good example of what I am talking about

I liked this sort of meta read on HK, I wanted to revisit there myself, but before EOD



I don't exactly know what the bolded means, like you can't swap to somebody who already flipped???

sorry I am back reading and reading live too, and trying to get myself understood despite the amount of typos.

"He switched to Dobby once Dolby flipped red" was what I wanted to type (check out HK's ISO, it's pretty clear).

[katze]

im mostly just going through different people's isolated posts and seeing what sticks out and trying to get a solve since I feel like I could go over today and I want to make a good blueprint for when I die, if I don't cool

��

alrighty

had the same confusion as newcomb (why are you reacting to early D1 posts now when the concern you had applied when he posted it) but keep on doing you

[Dobby]

@zack if I would give you my vote, who do you want me to place it on?
@Sunbae too

[Zack]

@zack if I would give you my vote, who do you want me to place it on?
@Sunbae too

who do you want to place it on?

[Cape90]

why do I have almost as many posts as ender right now, this doesnt seem right, I feel like they really declined in activity from yesterday to today

[Zack]

i applied it more to turbos/mashes than normal games (and I also noticed it first in my own wolf games iirc)

sometimes as a wolf you see a post where you feel like you either 1) have to answer to or 2) have a smart answer to but to look like you didnt just pop in to answer that post you then also latch onto a random other post that happened before



i do think ender reaction to zack/mine (but especially zack really) push is the wolfiest thing in an overall p villagery thread


newcomb seems an obvious villager imo

i mean ladd said this but he was voting sunbae and then piled on sunbae more in 298 (while staying on him)

I really don't think anything ladd said about ender is remotely clearing, he is perfectly capable of distancing from a teammate d1 and neither of them ever felt that interested in actually killing the other, despite the supposed mutual suspicion.

[Cape90]

��

alrighty

had the same confusion as newcomb (why are you reacting to early D1 posts now when the concern you had applied when he posted it) but keep on doing you

I feel like it's the best way for me to play days, is to keep rereading things and if I have anything to comment on about, I do so. Mostly because I kinda have been struggalugging to get in the emperors new groove this game

[Dobby]

who do you want to place it on?

honestly

just going by gut again and not having read back

cape, ender or monty


i just gave ender a free pass cuz he was like top posting and uh, i think cuz i hated hk's case on him, but then idk

monty to sheep you, clearly

[Cape90]

I have thoughts on this but not sure if I should post them tbh

I really don't see the benefit of making a comment like this and withholding information in this manner

[Zack]

i will prob be around even less tomorrow

villas

newcomb
zack

benneh

katze
sleep
HK
mont
ladd
cape

why is monty there?

[Montmorency]

I don't think anyone has responded to any of my Monty stuff? other than newcomb referencing it

and people are still giving him credit for ending on ladd when I've pointed out 80 times that he actually tried to unvote but it was at :01 (after seeing several other people suddenly vote ladd)

his posts today are not doing it today for me but I seem to be on an island here

Then let's mason. I'm telling you, we need to agree on Sunbae vesting me tonight. It's in your best interest. Think about it.

@Dobby
@Sunbae
If NC is scum, mafia exchange both Zack and Sunbae for him. Too risky. And if he's town, then you lose his apparently-prodigious town-presence. Best to give it to Zack, who dies eventually - but then you realize Zack dies tonight if there's any hint of him grabbing the vest.

So I'm the only sensible option.

strangest thing with mont is his clearing of kat/sleep/HK while clamoring for me but i just assumd that comes from inexperience with that playerlist more than anything? I guess it kind of makes sense if he's pre-flipping newcomb w but if thats the case why's he pushing for my lunch?

but aside from that i just kinda think he's a villager? i get he unvoted but uh, eh, idk

Not clearing, just not in immediate POE. I think it's best to have one or both of you resolved before moving on. Why do people post about me clearing someone when I have cleared literally no players all day?

I don't agree that you can only be partnered with NC (vs. it being possible) so there's no mechanical reason to clear NC first. Although I guess you are each equally TRed by now?

To reiterate for reference, I also don't think you can be paired with cape, so that's potential information. Though on the other hand maybe it's no longer applicable with EMFH rules in effect. But that's F3 territory.

Like these are the last posts from Monty at EOD. And it doesn't make sense to shade (to the point of hinting Winston scum) the read on Ladd to sheeping it so quickly without outside, thread related influence?

I've explained myself multiple times.

I only* saw ( just in swedish is used like only) as in i saw Dolby died but I didn't see that you were sorcerer

OTOH this makes good sense.

my comment was a joke because we have the same reads kinda and I keep nodding at zack's posts smh. (but rejoice, this game is pretty much filled with pros. we'll win it no matter what :p)

I think the team could simply be mont/dobby

If I was partnered with Dobby I would have stayed on Rask.

i caught up abd dont have a ton to add but theres two things in my mind

- i think that if newcomb is town (and that is a big if) katze is more likely a wolf than ender. katzes posts have felt all right but i dont...have strong reasons to clear her

- i'm still mighty suspicious of cuth

Good post.

Okay genuine question to the 29459239439 people who want to "resolve" / infolynch me.

Does the game become really different or obvious if you get confirmation I'm a villager? Because I'm sitting here *knowing I'm a villager* and weathervaning pretty hard. Like am I missing something? If you were in my shoes and knew I was a villager would you just go, "oh of course, it's obviously X/Y."

I'll take the help at this point.

The hope is obviously for scum flip. It's not a strong agenda, but it's a reasonable one. Cf. Sunbae below, I would look at katze more in the townflip.

Fwiw, I'm almost certainly vesting Dobby if we chop town today

Tempts me to vote Dobby.

ok

u voted monty because he opened the day pushing u and disliked him thinking u would bus, the ? is do u think monty would bus in that situation? i realize he tried to unvote but it still has to be considered he voted there in the first place

Correction, I put Cuth at the very top of my leans at SOD, in my opening post.

And as I said, I unvoted for the tie.

Is this microphone on or what??

i'm glad i never listened to my gut trepidation on you zack

i was kinda worried about you all d1 but it never got to the point where it felt worth it and you had some moments

Pretty much.

i didn't sorry

uh you were just sorta confidently v-reading me d1 for the most part

and i think it's maybe fair but also i felt like i was playing in a space in the thread wrt engagement and stuff that honestly lines up with how i often approach d1s as a wolf where i'm there and engaging but not leaning in too hard because i don't want to get strongly v-read d1 lol

even though it was more because i had two exams and a bunch of work to do and so i was only able to engage so much but was still like present a fair bit

and you often take a more uh cautious look at me than most people because you know my style of approach

and it surprised me a bit that you weren't more sketched out by my general patterns of engagement than you were

What do you make of my D1 reactions to you?

[Newcomb]

Newcomb,

I don't mean to be pointed or anything. We have two flipped wolves and 4 known villagers on day two. I know this is a laid back casual game and it's unreasonable to expect going super hard, but at some point I need you to just tell me who the wolves are from your pov. I've enjoyed your posting today and think your reasons for town reading some people are good, but townreading people in an 11v2 games with two dead wolves is easier to do for a wolf and calling people wolves in that game state is hard for them.

So like, not due to self-interactions or how easy/hard things are. Just "based on ladd and monstr/dolby being wolves and how things have played out, i think these people are the wolves".

Alright here's where I'm at.

2. nebjiamn
3. cuthillius
6. Raskolnikov
9. EnderWiggin
11. Montmorency
12. roro__b
14. katze
15. Sleep
16. Cape90
17. hollowkatt

2 wolves in 10 names. Start taking people off the list.

Bennah and cuth are my first cuts (i.e. strongest townreads). With bennah, it's that his approach to me has felt the most genuine out of anyone ITT. For cuth, it's that of the ladd voters he's the one where like... I know Cuth as a player pretty well, I think? I don't know monte or rask so I don't really have a mental map of what they would or wouldn't do. But in that situation if Cuth's partnered with ladd I just really don't believe Cuth as a player puts that vote down. Not with the speed that it happened. He just doesn't strike me as that... ruthless is maybe the wrong word. Mercurial?

I think I'm also just gonna let jesus take the wheel and take sleep off the list. This is mostly just a thread flow / thread state thing, and an overall body of work thing.

Raskolnikov
EnderWiggin
Montmorency
roro__b
katze
Cape90
hollowkatt

I feel pretty comfortable saying both wolves in there. Like if they're not, I got fooled, straight up. GG to whoever.

Technically I really only *need* one more name to call it a real PoE - village should control 6 more kills - but I know you're looking for more in the way of actual committed wolfreads. Which, yeah, fair. At the same time like... idk I kind of reserve the right to not *always* have a strong wolfread? I know the game seems like it should be easy on paper, but the ladd wagon was just so *weird* and so fast that I think it's perfectly reasonable to not have a strong sense of a lock solve even with 2 reds, 2 greens, and 2 confirmed on d2. So yeah part of me just wants to kind of be stubborn and go, nah, I'm not gonna force this. But I do know that if the tables were turned and I were in your shoes, that's what I'd want to see.

So let's take a swing at forcing it -

Rask - I see Rask as kind of ... jumpy. Flitting around from topic to topic. Uneven engagement levels. Trying to track a single line of thought - like their read on me, is confusing. You go from like, naysaying Ender's wall on me, to saying they found zack/me villagery at SoD2, to saying that EoD1 they could have voted me, to going through and picking a bunch of kind of random stuff to shade me for. I think this actually feels kind of TWTBTWTBAW? Just like, the... unevenness of it, the messiness of it. I skimmed through this ISO kind of looking for reasons to call rask a wolf but I think gun to my head they're just a villager. It's also like... pretty hard to get away from the fact that they could have easily voted me EoD1 and swung it onto a villager instead of the wolf PR, so like... yeah. Think I gotta just take that one off the table.

HK - Biggest thing for me with HK is that he just doesn't really feel like he's got a team. He's playing like... a bit removed from the thread, but I believe he cares about the things he's posting about. I also think he hasn't really changed tonally from before EoD/dolby dying, to after it, which like. If he were a wolf I feel like some of that body blow would leak through into the posting, since his thread position wouldn't be awesome. At the end of the day I wouldn't be like, *surprised* if he were a wolf, since the overall top down level of like, is he engaged with the game the same way bennah's engaged with the game? No, not really. But yeah gun to my head, villager.

Katze - I think I'm just gonna say wolf. They way they were interacting with me, was gonna say early on but really all game, is just so *weird*. Like some of that can be explained by the miscommunication in them thinking I knew their meta or w/e, but not all of it. They've just felt so like... softly yet continually focused on me, to the extent where it feels like they know I have to die to town KP at some point for wolves to win. Just kind of a steady, "hey guys remember Newcomb, it seems like the thread hasn't talked about Newcomb in a while, let's talk about Newcomb like MAYBE he's a villager but MAN I don't KNOW". I admit some of this is wanting to be vindicated in my early read. But yeah if I had a bomb right now I think I'd go for the mildly hero shot and take it, knowing it wasn't like the most high percentage shot ever. But fuck it right? I could tack on - and it's definitely a tack-on - the fact that katze is posting a lot and generally around a fair bit and I can't off the top of my head know what he thinks about the game or who he wants to kill the same way I can track like, sleep or zack. Which, yeah, that could absolutely just be my own casualness this game seeping through, I freely admit I'm not paying attention to things to a degree where this would be a real red flag. But it's worth mentioning at least.

Monte - Yeah kind of think monte has a pretty decent chance of flipping red as well? Like, if he hadn't done two things - those things being the vote on ladd, and the aesthetically pleasing recent quote wall - you'd just kind of write him off as a monssr/dolby style "yeah probably just wolf fine PoE ez". The ladd vote was the 2nd one, the winston vote had been there for a while, so like, it kinda.... started the flashwagon, as opposed to finishing it or cementing it. And it did happen real, real fast. And there was the unvote. Which I don't think makes it likely a bus on its *own*, but I do think it puts what normally would be a pretty clearing vote in a normal game where the ladd wagon built and grew in a normal amount of time as opposed to like, literally 5 minutes or w/e. It wouldn't shock me at all if a hipfire/ gutty wolf threw down a distancing vote on a partner near EoD where wagons were that disorganized, and couldn't really hop off or saw the writing on the wall too late to do anything. Then there's the most recent flurry of posts. Which... I had a kind of negative reaction to, but have been trying to check myself on it since a lot of it was a visceral opposition to the whole wanting to resolve or infokill me without actually having a read on me. I think the most clear thing I can say about monte's recent posts is that they feel performative. Kind of... wanting to be seen, wanting to have a presence, being smooth about it. Yeah. Decent shot of being a wolf IMO.

Ender - I kind of want to just yolo Cuth's read and take ender off the table? But man if anyone fits the mold of a wolf who got deflated by the EoD1/wolf bomb shot... Their activity and presence is like night and day, D1 vs. now. And yeah I know he said he had a migraine, that's totally legit and not something I"m pushing on at all. Just... overall, holistic I mean I have the thought, it's there, I'm not gonna not mention it. They were *really* pushing for me at EoD1. Like the most vocal by far. And they've kind of walked that back toDay in a way that feels to me like they're kind of reading the tea leaves and not like, a genuine flip for reasons that are transparent and I can actually follow. Fuck you know despite all of that my gut says town. Idk what to tell you. I think I always need to kill this slot in my PoE but my heart says it's flipping v. It is what it is.

Cape - I'm still kind of processing that post he randomly quoted of mine from a hundred years ago. I would... definitely like to see the thought process behind that. Moving on to the bigger picture - I just don't think he really fits on a lot of teams. I guess he could be with HK or something? He's probably not with monte, I don't really think he's with dobby. I guess more meaningfully he doesn't really fit on a ladd/monsr/cape/x team like in general. I think it's gonna be hard to not PoE this slot but we really should clear it if we can, because if cape's v that's like always always a misyeet wolves need. I can't like, do that, not now, but I do want to try to get there if it's possible.

Dobby - I think dobby's kind of in his own world. It is a really fine line between "i'm talking about the things I want to talk about because I really believe in them and don't want to get dragged into stuff I don't care about" and "I'm a wolf and I need to keep the conversation and style of play in my comfort zone." Idk. I think he's got some decent associative. I think it's a good look that he's seemingly gotten more active after the redflips. I think the mech stuff and confusion about dolby dying and a lot of kind of wonky posts feel like a wolf would be a bit more careful in that kind of thing, in a self-awareness way. I think gun to my head villager. But this is definitely my most "man who the fuck knows" read.

So yeah.

There you go Sunbae. My yolo fuck it guess for the win is katz/monte. Doesn't really, like... feel right. But if you want me to take a swing, there it is. In terms of likely to actually flip wolf, I think something like -

Monte >> Katze >>>> HK = ender > cape > dobby >>> rask

Vote: Montmorency

That's about the most detailed I can be while doing this at work, but I'm around to chat for another ~hour or so probably.

[Cape90]

No, here's what I'm trying to say:

sunbae said if we chop town he's contemplating giving you the vest to blow someone up. It's pretty clear to me that I'm the person you'd most want to explode, which is fine I get it.
But if that's the plan then chop me today as the "townie" that dies to give you the vest so that you have to blow someone else up.

Basically it's like this:

I know I'm POE and I know I'm likely not posting out of it. That's fine. Instead of continually saying "we really ought to look into HK" resolve me today. Then give you the vest tonight. Make a good decision.

We're currently very far ahead and the mafia have no extra KP after Ladd was chopped. We have time to make mistakes/clear POE via killing them.

It's like MtG, as long as at the end of the day we're +2 on the wolves it doesn't matter how many townies are actually alive, we're still winning this game. Town bodies dying are irrelevant to actually winning the game. We know who the PR are, they're the designated NKs yeah?

That leaves us in the POE to either resolve ourselves or get resolved. It's not "oh woe is me" it's an antiseptic way of reducing possibilities and guiding us towards a mathematical lock on winning the game.

I guess it doesn't matter if I'm the chop today if you promise to blow me up tomorrow

im honestly in the boat with this post, and I would actually be concerned if this were actually wolf

just saying

[Montmorency]

My condolences to readers of Page 54.

Very important consideration: Mafia will usually bus today because the game typically ends D6, and Sunbae, Zack, etc. have to be NKed.

Bottom line here: At least one of Neb/NC/cape HAS to be maf.

Zack, in your own words explain to me how essoa and hally went so deep in Mass Effect.

I volunteer to be vested. This will never backfire on the vesting faction (compared to alternatives).

(I get the sense people read my posts with worse comprehension despite their low quantity.)