Sufjan 10er [Game Thread]

[insomnia]

Mischief can you explain why you were adding me in your read lines posts despite not having much of a read there? It irks me since lantana was doing the exact same thing, tho you voting to save me is a slight good look ngl

I didn’t read in depth (or ~at all) most of the casing on me cuz i can’t rn but i think anyone paying attention can see i’m not with lantana

Apparently im wrong and im biased or you are all not paying attention

I’ll say that i was kinda mad not sticking to the early read especially since it seemed newcombian, i guess it wasn’t a read really but i should’ve pursued it by pushing more

My initial thoughts without re-reading attentively are that mischief / ender are the options here and i lean mischief personally just cuz it felt to me like ender had 0 suspicions / didn’t build much of an agenda

[insomnia]

To be clear, 0 suspicion = he didn?t make too many suspicions. I?d figure a wolf would attempt to dive in action and stir the tides somehow but he seemed pretty passive and i usually have a tough time associating it with wolves. Can anyone say if i?m wrong making this read on ender?

[insomnia]

Ok so the ? Posters were mobile posters

[insomnia]

Also mischief u said i look worst from “interactions”

Did u make any case saying why / which ones? It feels like you’re just parroting the thread / following consensus but aren’t showing the work. U came into today pushing me while gth me village, you should have some reason for saying that

[EnderWiggin]

To be clear, 0 suspicion = he didn?t make too many suspicions. I?d figure a wolf would attempt to dive in action and stir the tides somehow but he seemed pretty passive and i usually have a tough time associating it with wolves. Can anyone say if i?m wrong making this read on ender?

That's not a good way to read me. =P

[Mischief]

Also mischief u said i look worst from “interactions”

Did u make any case saying why / which ones? It feels like you’re just parroting the thread / following consensus but aren’t showing the work. U came into today pushing me while gth me village, you should have some reason for saying that

Kind of hard for me to be following the consensus on this one when I concluded this and voted you before the consensus.

For now I'll place my vote on what seems most likely out of the options
Vote: Insomnia


The only thing I dislike about this is that I did think they were a little villagery at some points, but I also thought that of Lantana.

Unrelated: it doesn't look like I have covid (thankfully), I feel better today. It must have been either foodborne illness or maybe cross contamination with an allergen (I ate at a ramen shop, and the only allergy I really know about is shellfish).

That said, I will absolutely not deny that others such as Sunbae have actually put forth the effort to actually go through and piece together the interactions you had with Lantana, and write out a more complete case.
I didn't write an abundance on the subject, but I did read for a while after the flips and arrived at my conclusion.
From the way Lantana talked about you, to the EOD vote on Ephemeral, there is plenty of potential partner equity there.


That isn't to say that I'm certain that you are the last wolf, just that there are enough things that I can't logically ignore, in spite of the fact at EOD I had the slightest tinge of belief that you might be a villager.

As such, I placed my vote where it makes sense.

That said, hopefully that makes sense, I'm going to sleep, because otherwise I'll sleep through my therapy appointment later.

[insomnia]

You still haven’t described why exactly i look bad off “flips / interactions”

Can you give some examples where you felt like i was w/w with lant?

[insomnia]

Alr so im gonna claim vigi

If i am not the vigi then he should give me a day for obvious reasons

If i am vigi im gonna give myself a day

solve as though i am a villager please.

[insomnia]

vote: mischief

placeholder until he elaborates. likely i'll change it later

[Zack]

Official Tally as of #519

4 Mischief (Visor, EnderWiggin, Ephemeral, insomnia)
3 insomnia (Mischief, Sunbae, Raskolnikov)

Day 2 ends in

[Mischief]

V0te: Ender

No counterclaim as of yet, Insom will get vigged if lying.

[Mischief]

vote: mischief

placeholder until he elaborates. likely i'll change it later

Just vote me then.
I have therapy soon, and if I were to collect the quotes you'd just say "these are the same quotes others are using", at which point it would be little more than an exercise in tedium.

[Sunbae]

Insomnia,

I acknowledge your claim, but I think you're lying. I will not rocks fall this one though and will play ball because we're in a position to do that and it's mechanically the abc correct move.

Who do you think is a wolf? You're voting Mischief as a placeholder, think voting to save you is a good look, and have stated you're voting there because "the options" are Ender and Mischief and you town read Ender for their play near eod yesterday. If you ignored everything and just said "I'm voting my best wolf read" who would it be and why?


Vote: Ender

I don't have a strong reason to wolf read here but I have strong reasons to villa read everyone else. I think this is most likely a villager and it's Insomnia, especially after the claim, but if Insomnia is the vig then I think it has to be here. If it is the answer, I guess the early poking votes between Lan/Ender ("wolfiest slot so far" early) and the "I might vote you at eod" but never doing so was just distancing, but it's a very weird end of day by Lan to defend Insomnia hard/not defend Ender and being so hectic on Ephem. I can't say I really understand it if so.

As for Mischief, I think the reasons to wolf read there are just kind of not good. I think it's the product of momentum in the sense that it was an early wolf read that's just kind of stuck with people. You had the early "abe simpson" thing which I think can be explained by it being a new site, the push on Visor early which I think was weird for people on the outside but makes sense if you think Mischief believes Visor has better meta on him (I also think pushes of "this person should know me better than to think I'm being wolfy" are just kinda towny in general?), and the way Mischief grumbled about it once multiple people told him that's unreasonable also makes sense. So you had a first half of day 1 where people just kinda locked in "yeah thats weird" in the back of their mind and went about their day and now that there's one wolf left it's "well maybe it's the weird thing I remember". I don't think the lack of interaction with Lan is wolfy despite multiple others thinking so. The way the day played out I think they just *have* to do something if paired together. I don't think "you didn't explain in detail why my interactions look bad" is a reasonable case (I'm a bit miffed that this was said while ignoring my effort to showcase it). I just think from my experience that this is a villager being piled on today for things that aren't wolfy because the answer is obvious and we're trying to poke around in worlds in which it's not.

[Sunbae]

[QUOTE=Mischief;2053833504]
Aside from the pushes that on NAI things, or arguments with an absurd foundation, I think it is less likely that you and Lantana are W/W from your interactions, Dya V read you, Sunbae V reads you, and I V read them and know that they read you better than I. So everything mentioned above is simply to contextualise why although I logically see you as a probable villager, I do so in spite of a plethora of things that have bothered me, that would lead to me tunneling you if not for the fact I understand that you may not know what IS alignment indicative for me. (If that sounds hostile at all, also know that I still respect you as both a person and a player, even if I felt a little tilted about some some things)


[QUOTE]

Visor,

please read this and ask yourself if this is "a wolf that's annoyed that their push on you was derailed" or "a villager that finds the way you've interacted with them wolfy but will listen to their villager reads while grumbling about it"

[Sunbae]

Visor,

I think this is a moon in spec game situation

[Sunbae]

I am trying to be more persuasive in games. I think I've had a lot of games recently where I was doing a pretty decent job (not great, but not bad) but I just kind of *exist* and it doesn't amount to much. In this game I've tried to lay out a concise, easy to follow case on who I think the wolf is (i know, they claimed vig and now I'm begrudgingly voting Ender because thats what I'm supposed to do) as well as a defense on a villager read with game related, personal meta, overall werewolf theory, and perceived flawed logic of pushes there as reasons. I am very uncomfortable in the "look at me!" role (I got a bit happy for myself last postgame cause like, the wolves were elite and I was able to sift through it a decent amount but that was an outlier in back patting lol) but this is my best effort at it.

At this point I am comforted knowing that if I am correct, I think the game is won. I won't jump up and down anymore. I will say my piece and let others roll in and do their thing. If I am incorrect, I won't be the one to derail it further.

[Sunbae]

It's not a cool cat or doggo or rabbit but I did see a neat birb this morning (my mom started putting feeders/birdbath out in her backyard and now she gets these (robin i think?), cardinals, and blue jays out there. Pretty neat.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Raskolnikov]

if insom is actually a villager, I am outing a tinfoil: Sunbae is the last wolf for how he handled EOD1. (cased insom, got people into the wagon, then followed Visor's flashwagon on a villager -> like it's easier to shrug the sus for that than what could fall upon you after you spearheaded the chop on a villager yourself. counterpoint: I do that a lot as a wolf. countercounterpoint: I am not a good wolf, Sunbae prolly is)

now that has been said, I don't really believe insom's claim.

[Raskolnikov]

Alr so im gonna claim vigi

If i am not the vigi then he should give me a day for obvious reasons

If i am vigi im gonna give myself a day

solve as though i am a villager please.

tbh lettuce us chop this claim lol. who claims and follow up with "if I am not the vig, he should give me a day for blabla"? a wolf hoping to hero shoot the real vig tonight? (I don't really see a vanillager make that claim? maybe?)

what am I missing here?

[Visor]

Ender or mischief then if we are going to give insomnia the day

[Raskolnikov]

oh lol, now I am wondering if Zack is outing PRs on flips. lol me I guess. hmm

[Raskolnikov]

vote: Mischief

[Visor]

tbh lettuce us chop this claim lol. who claims and follow up with "if I am not the vig, he should give me a day for blabla"? a wolf hoping to hero shoot the real vig tonight? (I don't really see a vanillager make that claim? maybe?)

what am I missing here?

So in the world he is the big, he maybe survives tonight and we get a f4 with vig alive which is good for win percentage

In the world he is the wolf he just does tonight so it doesn't matter

In the world he is a vanillagrr he dies tonight, maybe from big, maybe from wolf

[Visor]

vote: ender

[Raskolnikov]

vote: ender

You think BLade comes in D2 without trying like that? (I may be uncharitable here, wouldn't be the first time, but I just remember openwolfing from him today)

(I think you will reply, yeet wolfy players)

[Raskolnikov]

part of me just wants to sheep Visor here. the other one wants me to be right D1 and yeet Mischief lol. Might vote Ender and just blame Visor if he flips villa. Seems a good plan

[Visor]

You think BLade comes in D2 without trying like that? (I may be uncharitable here, wouldn't be the first time, but I just remember openwolfing from him today)

(I think you will reply, yeet wolfy players)

My options are: blade, who is actively shitposting

Mischief, who sunbae has moved heaven and earth to defend

Ephemeral: who got pushed a but by Lan but hasn't really been super villagery

Idkmybffjill

[Raskolnikov]

ok let's go

vote: Ender

[Visor]

The only reason I'm not voting mischief is because of sunbae. I still don't think he's done any solving especially today and focused entirely on defending himself, but if sunbae believes it that strongly and I think sunbae is probably a villager I'm just going to throw up my hands and say fine, have it your way and if he's right good, if he's wrong rip and if he's a wolf trying to keep a ml alive for endgame I guess I'll make that decision when the time comes

[Zack]

Official Tally as of #538

3 EnderWiggin (Sunbae, Visor, Raskolnikov)
3 Mischief (EnderWiggin, Ephemeral, insomnia)

1 insomnia (Mischief)

Day 2 ends in