Sufjan 10er [Game Thread]

[Sunbae]

The game coming down to whether or not I can correctly read into wolf spew of someone I've never played with before

[Sunbae]

So Visor did a sudden mood switch that pinged me I hope I can explain it properly (all quotes spoilered for length). At the start they don?t interact with the off-topic posting at all and seem intent to steer the conversation towards proper mafia play instead of shitposting:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

This unsollicited read creeped me out btw, I really don?t think anyone should be able to tell the difference between a yolo villager or someone really excited to have randed wolf (and posting empty content). It felt like either a pocketing attempt or bait, and since it was 3am at that point I didn?t feel like figuring out which. I also don?t like how they later explained it both as a lazy throwaway read and as an attempt to get me posting more on-topic.

Then later Sunbae shows up (my read on Sunbae btw is ?probably town, because they described their wolf play as nefarious and slimy and none of their posts feel that way?). Sunbae explicitly says to Insomnia that they?re down to get the ball rolling on actual play, then starts a conversation about DnD with Ender, which Visor decides to hijack (and note that they still ignore Ender completely)



So... is Visor just socially awkward around new people and Sunbae the only one here they feel comfortable talking to? Are the rest of us not good enough for chit-chat? Did Ender ask to take over the conversation in wolf chat because he?s scared Sunbae will find him out?

(there were posts about actual game-related stuff inbetween the conversation that I didn?t copy, I wanted to show the difference between their posting before and after)


I also thought their response to Lantana?s vote was overly defensive. For someone who professes to be aware of how they are perceived and to purposely work towards a certain perception, that seems like an odd choice.



And then there were some very weird mindmelds that gave me pause.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

This is echoing my own reasoning for my initial vote.



Yes this is exactly what I meant, so if you?re town it?s appreciated.



I have never met anyone else before who felt the same way I do about voting people who aren?t present D1. It?s something that?s been discussed repeatedly on Giantitp and definitely something Ender knows.



Oh dear.

Tl,dr: I?m having a tinfoil w/w read on Visor and Ender and I?m going to hate being wrong.

Vote: Visor

Taffy called you socially awkward, not Lan

[Visor]

oh right thats true

i got called word salady and whatever the other thing they said from lanata

taking it from all sides this game

[insomnia]

Lol fmpov i was never partnered with lantana either

Btw don’t worry about defending yourselves, i just lay out thoughts in the thread i have for now, i still have to re-read, im just picking things accessible to think about atm with the time i have and that seem entertaining to think about, hope that makes sense

I am afraid i might actually wallpost when im in the re-reading sesh, normals turn me into something real ugly

I would kindly ask everyone to not defend themselves and instead solve wherever possible and I will also ask that you have faith everything will turn out fine by the end even if we miss today (the point of having this belief is that it will make you less likely to defend yourself perhaps) not the end of the world if we yeet wrong and if I shoot wrong that’s on me

You are not to blame if you die today, it’s me if anything. Best you can do is to feed as much info as possible so that me making the shot won’t have to be hard. If you want to towncase yourself I guess you can, but you have to think that we only have 24 hours to figure it out and if you spend a lot of it defending yourself and you die anyway, the common good gets nothing

I know it’s frustrating to get yeeted if you are villa in this scenario, but if it’s not preventable, the best thing you can do is to help the vig see the clearer view <3

I’ll be back, you’ll know when you see giant wallposts

[insomnia]

The game coming down to whether or not I can correctly read into wolf spew of someone I've never played with before

Ya i kinda regret making that shot now lmao, i guess it’s true what they say, early wolf kills are tougher on the village

[Sunbae]

Here are the Visor/Lan interactions day 1 in an easy to parse spoiler (its for my purposes, ignore if you wnat)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Do you think Visor was being serious and is being serious or not serious more likely to indicate alignment one way or another?

Visorslash villager I believe. Justification to come later if I feel the same - riding the vibe for now.

Actually on re-read I retract my v read on visor. I am told he has word salad reads more often as a villager and makes his reads more polished as a wolf, and post 59 looked word salad-y (thereby town meta). If this meta is wrong, blame Katze. That aside though.

His latest string of posting feels like a diplomatic wolf and more closely resembles someone who?s acutely aware of everything they?re posting and the optics. I think this holds true even with meta aside.

Vote visor

I am aware of everything I post? I don't make idle posts in ww games, even posts that seem lazy and noncontributive are done with an eye towards how I think I will be perceived, how I want to be perceived and how I need to be perceived.

Any villager worth their salt should be consider their posts.

Fascinating that katze gave meta on me, not sure they've really seen me as a wolf . Are you a foler?

I don't see an issue with being diplomatic in 24 hours phases either, I didn't want to get into a brawl with insomnia over a misunderstanding of a post, especially because in a few hours I'll be afk till near EOD.

Whether his read on me was something he actually believed or something he thought he could push until I closed it down is something I remain uncertain of

(That all said, lol using someone else's meta interpretation to read me instead of just reading my posts)

vote: mischief

Is where I'm thinking rn

Sunbae seems fine for right now, realistically too early to make a confident v read on him with few posts but he has ticked the right boxes for now

I like Lantana trying to use meta from someone not in the game as an earnest attempt to get me killed, might be a bad read here but I'm taking a D1 gander that they are a villa

Ender had a bit of a wonky start but I also don't think he's tried to look villagery, so I'm also putting a D1 gander there

Taffy, well I'm probably not gonna kill a new player D1, needs to re enter for me to make a read any direction

Insomnia - not even info really to make a read on

Mischief - a slight thing, but the wording of some of his posts feel a little stilted, and his reads without much commenting on the posts in between nor posing many questions is a slight negative sign

So from the posters so far, that's where I'm leaning, but I'm loathe to make a wolf read with 3 zero posters so far. I will be voting one of them if we have 2 or more at EOD, fwiw

As I write this, I'm reminded of ender constantly referring to meta to clear bluekang when we wolfed together, so it's interesting to see him try to clear me on meta (though seems to have less confidence than he did in that game and that's a good sign I think)

vote: ephemeral

I really gotta think about that taffy read some more

Part of me just wants to village read it because it's not a super good case/weird targets but I do have a weal spot for that stuff

Raskol can you talk about Lantana a bit for me?

Not FOL.

And naturally. It was more that I saw the word salady read in 59 and the change to not that.
So it?s not quite accurate for it to be a ?as a villager you don?t consider your posts? read at all actually.


Looking through the 100 or so posts I?ve missed now

Yes my posting style can change

I don't think this is something that is uncommon for ww players. I think anyone who has played with me prior in games would agree with that

Lantana if you want your votes to count you need to add the colon

Ender can you state your earlier reasons on me (again, if it was done originally...)?

OK visor, will note for next time.

Whoever is interested - just making sure there is no iso button? can't find one. won't be a problem but worth asking.

read this:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...g-from-offsite

tells you how

[Visor]

fair lmao

[Sunbae]

So now I'm going to spend the next 4 hours showing you all why I am not a wolf

[Sunbae]

[spoiler]ok im just being a little shit lol, its totally fine insomnia [/spoil]

[Visor]

"Yes my posting style can change

I don't think this is something that is uncommon for ww players. I think anyone who has played with me prior in games would agree with that"

villagery snark imo

[Sunbae]

Visor,

Not to like, get super in the weeds about this cause it's small on the grand scale of things, but off the top of your head if you were a wolf would you feel obligated to v read me quickly? No long explanation needed, just a quick yes/no/context-dependent

[Visor]

Visor,

Not to like, get super in the weeds about this cause it's small on the grand scale of things, but off the top of your head if you were a wolf would you feel obligated to v read me quickly? No long explanation needed, just a quick yes/no/context-dependent

no, not at all why?

thats not saying i wouldn't do it, but i definitely don't think i would feel any obligation towards doing so

[insomnia]

You can be mad with me, i got big heart and im STOIC

I can take it, if it helps you SOLVE after :p

[Sunbae]

You can be mad with me, i got big heart and im STOIC

I can take it, if it helps you SOLVE after :p

it was a shitpost dont mind me

[Sunbae]

no, not at all why?

thats not saying i wouldn't do it, but i definitely don't think i would feel any obligation towards doing so

cool, cool ty

just rereading through and poking at stuff, no biggie

[Sunbae]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

just quickly went through stuff, found sunbae lightly villagery

ditto his sentiment about dya's entrance feeling good

not particularly enamoured with visors posts for reasons i can't find a way to articulate, but both dya and sunbae liking him is good enough for me to give him a pass till I can actually get into the headspace to dive into stuff properly

lantana has been... marginally ok

the way mischief handled his visor seems alright, #168 and the first paragraph of #173 being what i mainly refer to here, overall feel fine about the slot atm

had a good kneejerk reaction to insomnia, not conclusive by any means but would not kill d1

ender/taffy/rask is the group i feel the most meh about out of the bunch and am probably fine with voting in today

Not to subtly defend existing wagons, however,

Can those that are here nya about their Ephe read? I have him way more sus than insomnia at the moment

Sunbae
Taffy
Mischief
Dyachei
Visorslash
Raskolnikov
Enderwiggin
Ephemeral

Dyachei is probably true null which means I need to find more town reads and/or dyachei needs to be townier

I also had insomnia has my third town but I didn't wanna have him there if he's gonna flip wolf in 10 minutes nya
I def prefer Ephemeral, I can go check his posts again to confirm this (or potentially feel differently )

poe is rask taffy ender and is confused at rask town-reading him. could be w/w too

and the ephem/lan interactions

[Visor]

While you're being a doll, can you get the Lantana sunbae interactions out too :p

[Sunbae]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

just quickly went through stuff, found sunbae lightly villagery

ditto his sentiment about dya's entrance feeling good

not particularly enamoured with visors posts for reasons i can't find a way to articulate, but both dya and sunbae liking him is good enough for me to give him a pass till I can actually get into the headspace to dive into stuff properly

lantana has been... marginally ok

the way mischief handled his visor seems alright, #168 and the first paragraph of #173 being what i mainly refer to here, overall feel fine about the slot atm

had a good kneejerk reaction to insomnia, not conclusive by any means but would not kill d1

ender/taffy/rask is the group i feel the most meh about out of the bunch and am probably fine with voting in today

Not to subtly defend existing wagons, however,

Can those that are here nya about their Ephe read? I have him way more sus than insomnia at the moment

Sunbae
Taffy
Mischief
Dyachei
Visorslash
Raskolnikov
Enderwiggin
Ephemeral

Dyachei is probably true null which means I need to find more town reads and/or dyachei needs to be townier

I also had insomnia has my third town but I didn't wanna have him there if he's gonna flip wolf in 10 minutes nya
I def prefer Ephemeral, I can go check his posts again to confirm this (or potentially feel differently )

poe is rask taffy ender and is confused at rask town-reading him. could be w/w too

ignore the top, its a quote dumb cause the MQ is being wonky

Visor v

I read his posts and he's not in his wolf meta

Idk, I can't really explain it. He's taking the game as it comes and not forcing reads imo. it's based on gut feels to a degree

[Sunbae]

While you're being a doll, can you get the Lantana sunbae interactions out too :p

Sure

[Sunbae]

we are going to turbo you tmr

Nk's seem pretty uneven on you lmao

[Visor]

Nk's seem pretty uneven on you lmao

Er I am pretty sure he was joking lol (esp with curtain)

Fairly sure he townread me all game same with dya and even blade

[Sunbae]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Sooooo is it always quiet on d1 here?

let's play ww!

Yeah, org emotes are GOAT. As for quiet, if you're used to the mu speeds this one will be a lot slower. I think I averaged about 75-80 posts last game and died day 3 but was in the top quarter of posters when I died. Game before that here I think I died in the 50s. Usually a much more laid back and methodical type of thread early instead of a spam fest (I'm also going to be taking it into account the feedback that I posted a bit too much in a row last game and will be trying to keep things in fewer posts, as well as some other stuff but I won't bore anyone about the finer details of my adjustments). Got a bit more active in the back half of the game but by then it's a lot fewer people so it wasn't a big difference in daily posts.

If you'd like to get the ball rolling I'm all ears. I don't have anything very interesting on my end. A slight, slight frown towards Ender for acting like/thinking that Visor's response to you + vote on Ender were related but it's so small on the grand scale of things that I doubt it'll be a relevant factor by end of day. Kinda think your eagerness to get going is a towny mindset when coupled with your initial pranking/bubbly spurt but shrug. Don't really understand the visor yolo on taffy but maybe I just had to be there. Don't think Mischief saying he has to eat is abe simpsoning?

checks out, I?m fine with a lower volume game personally and tend to post way too much now. This will be a good lesson regardless of outcome.

Also I think a bubbly = towny description is fine for me at the moment, but I can get quite feisty just for full disclosure. As in? don?t just wolf read me if I am not a single wave bubbly nya

This seems towny. Surface level towny.

On second thoughts I do think a wolf is less likely to express the thought in general and just post lots for the sweet town cred.

So, cool Sunbae.


Getting some nice town reads for the situation

Current thoughts after catching up:

I'm trying to be a little more proactive this time around (my last game on MU was pretty much a non-factor and even if my reads were fine you could have replaced me with OPEN SLOT and nothing much would have changed).

Ender, Rask: I'd like to talk about the Lantana wolf reads because I've got a townread there. I thought the overnight posting once I went to sleep was fine so it's not just the bubbly/eager thing. The way they brushed off my villa read as a ?won't always be bubbly but it's fine? instead of just taking and moving on felt right? If they are a wolf and trying to pocket me (which the whole villa read of me would be) I don't know why they'd be like that. Switching Visor from townread to wolf read citing Katze-given meta was understandable if that's what you've been told. The timing of the villa read and the shift make sense under those parameters. I did circle back thinking ?oh maybe it shifted cause Visor started poking there and it's nefarious? but the change happened while Visor was talking to Insomnia about Taffy so I don't think there's anything to that? My current take is it's someone used to faster paced games and just bouncing around trying to find * something * to chat about.


Lantana: I don't think the meta you have on Visor is uh, accurate? I've always found him to be pretty self-aware regardless of alignment and I think his discussion of trying to just straighten out a misunderstanding is perfectly reasonable. I have a slight townread there for the ?whether his read on me was something he actually believed or something he thought he could push until I closed it down is something I remain uncertain of? comment about Insomnia after the misunderstanding because I think it'd be a pretty easy sport for wolf!visor to either buddy up to or lightly shade Insomnia and picking neither just doesn't seem to have an agenda to me. With the knowledge that multiple people have told you the meta read there isn't how they would do it, where's your head at on the rest of their posting?

Ender: It being a snarky response clears that up for me, ty

Regarding Mischief: I think the explanation of wanting to just post immediately to show you'll be around on a new site makes sense. I have a slight town read there for not really forcing anything and openly saying they can't really determine much else at this point in the game. My view of villager!Mischief is one that is pretty careful about finding what reads/votes they have and not pressing the matter.

I got no real thoughts about Insomnia's stint, will wait to see what Taffy says upon return before I try to formulate anything there, and want to interact with Rask/Ender more before landing on anything there as well.

Can you talk a bit about Insomnia?

I'm still living off my take last night where he skipped RVS and got into some pretty immediate shading, I think that's more typically villagery than not, though i'll have to see how I feel about placing him against others (momentarily)

Alrighty.

Sunbae
Taffy
Mischief
Dyachei
Visorslash
Raskolnikov
Enderwiggin
Ephemeral

Dyachei is probably true null which means I need to find more town reads and/or dyachei needs to be townier

I also had insomnia has my third town but I didn't wanna have him there if he's gonna flip wolf in 10 minutes nya
I def prefer Ephemeral, I can go check his posts again to confirm this (or potentially feel differently )

is lantana town?

I think so

thats me/lan or everytime i talk about lan to someone else

[Sunbae]

Er I am pretty sure he was joking lol (esp with curtain)

Fairly sure he townread me all game same with dya and even blade

gotcha

[Sunbae]

Basically where I'm at right now is that based on interactions with the dead wolf, night kill analysis (with the curtain joke explained), my feelings during our numerous interactions, and my general feelings on "who is trying to solve the game" purposes I feel like Visor is a villager but I have to come up with an answer of "what were the wolves doing at eod1 if there are v/v/v wagons and Lan starts going at Ephem".

I am going to read that end of day under the lens of Lan/Ephem being the wolf team and will try to see if I can understand a scenario in which it makes sense. If I can, I'm going to vote Ephemeral and be done with it. If I cannot, I am going to grumble and sleep on it hoping my tomorrow brain has it click better.

[Visor]

im gonna eat dinner, relax for a bit, then spend 1 hr to 1.5 hours on this and thats gonna be it till eod (except for maybe minor comments).

ill be 'around' for the next 6 hours or so

[Sunbae]

At :15 the wagons are 3 ender, 3 insomnia, 1 mischief, 1 raskol.

Lan comes in with this vote:

Vote: Ephemeral

I don't really want to kill visor today; insomnia I was fine with him (by extension raskolnikov saying I was shading insomnia is not nya).
lemme order my reads

No other posts about Ephem are made until :40 when Lantana makes this post ?not subtly defending wagons? and asking about Ephem. The wagons are 3 Ender, 3 insomnia, 1 mischief, 1 ephemeral. The earlier Raskol vote was Lan so they just moved:

Not to subtly defend existing wagons, however,

Can those that are here nya about their Ephe read? I have him way more sus than insomnia at the moment

Insomnia takes a 4/3/1 lead over Ender and Ephem with 10 minutes to go. Lan makes this post talking about Insomnia already flipping:

Sunbae
Taffy
Mischief
Dyachei
Visorslash
Raskolnikov
Enderwiggin
Ephemeral

Dyachei is probably true null which means I need to find more town reads and/or dyachei needs to be townier

I also had insomnia has my third town but I didn't wanna have him there if he's gonna flip wolf in 10 minutes nya
I def prefer Ephemeral, I can go check his posts again to confirm this (or potentially feel differently )

With 7 minutes to go Ender votes Ephem and Lantana immediately replies they may vote Ender at eod:

Vote: Ephemeral

Watch me pull a flash wagon out of my hat.

I may vote you at EOD

5 minutes to go Lan says check this wagon if people will actually listen to me:

Alright better check this wagon again if people will actually listen to me lol

3 minutes to go Lan starts tying Ephemeral to Rask as w/w

poe is rask taffy ender and is confused at rask town-reading him. could be w/w too

No more posts are made by Lan about Ephem and instead are spent talking to dya about null reads.





Under a lens of ?what is going on if they are w/w? I think I have a solution: The wagons are all villagers and Lan starts some small distancing. They don't expect anyone to listen to them (hence the ?if people are actually going to listen to me? post later). They've basically flipped Insomnia in their head already so they think this eod is in the clear. When the Ephem wagon gets a bit of steam they immediately shade the person voting Ephem and then start tying Ephem W to Rask W in a ?wait not, don't? and ?well I'll chain these together if it goes bad? way. Then they spend the rest of eod talking to Dya about null reads because they don't want to get more people on Ephem but doesn't want to defend either. If they are willing to want to look right for ?defending wagons? that are going to flip villa it's reasonable they would continue that action and want to look right for voting Ephem while we chopped villagers.


I'm going to Vote: ephemeral


Not being able to figure out why Lan pushed Ephem as wolves was the reason for me to defend Ephem throughout yesterday but I now can see a plausible scenario where it makes sense. Once I have that I can give more weight to the classically villagery things I've been seeing from Visor throughout the game. I've liked his interactions with the wolf way more, I've thought his entire process on Mischief wasn't trying to force a mischop and was genuinely listening and weighing my words vs his reads there, the Nks viewed him as towny, and frankly if I've interacted with him this much and not gotten any bad vibes it's probably just because he's a villager. The alternative is that I got pocketed and I don't want to live in that world so I won't.

[Visor]

here's where i'm at in a nutshell.

I like sunbaes interactions with lantana better. They don't feel like they are on the same wavelength. It feels like sunbaes responses are not matching up perfectly, and they don't seem particularly enthusiastic about doing anything about lantana. They make a village read on them, it carries on through the day. It's a lightish villa read, and sunbae specifically does not have them in the 4 man group that he thinks are much stronger villagers. If sunbae was a wolf and his intention was to townread his partner, i think I would see a greater effort from him to do so. ephemerals interactions with lantana are nonexistent basically, so not much to judge on there. The epehemeral read makes zero sense, has no backing and just comes out of nowhere in a spot where multiple villagers are dying.

you have to ask yourself what is the point of the push at that point in time? there are two options:

a) distancing
b) to kill another villager

in the a) scenario, because this is a vig game, and the wagons were locked up, they decide to engage in a bit distancing to set up their partner in case they are vigged randomly, or need to look good later, its basically a potential get out of jail free card you can pick up later if things go wrong for either of you.
b) theoretically yes, this is viable. It is also pointless. they ALREADY wolfread enderwiggin for most of the day. they don't need to switch. maybe they wanted to look like they cared so they spiced up the eod.

it is possible they just thought ephemeral was an easy push so they decided to push the wagon. but it is weird how they handled it, theres no real build up to it, theres no i wolfread eph for this, its just out of the blue

I note a POE of Rasko Ender and Taffy written in your reads list but no comments on Taffy's bigger post that immediately followed.
(that is wolfy!)

Why no comments? I found it a touch towny on a surface level

is the only background to it.


that said, lantana hard townreading sunbae and sunbae townreading lantana does hurt my soul a little.

so the question is, do i think its a bus or a push? it doesn't make a lot of sense as a real bus, and they don't seem comfortable on the wagon. but it also doesnt really make sense as a random villager kill because the villager they already wanted to kill was top wagon. so i leans towards it looking like distancing in a situation where they thought they could get away with it.

the next question is: the nightkills. dya and raskol.

dya was probably just killed because of lantana read + good player. they didnt really mention sunbae or ephemeral.

why was raskol killed? because he claimed vig? because the wolf didn't believe insomnia? this kinda points towards sunbae wrt not believing insomnia, though if i was a wolf in sunbaes shoes and i was pushing against insomnia, i might be tempted to kill insomnia because it wouldnt make sense from my pov in thread and ppl may village read it.

raskol expresses some suspiscion towards eph d2, and some tinfoil towards sunbae

i think i lean towards the wolf not believing insomnia - which means they killed raskol.

which might lean towards sunbae as a wolf.

as an overall point i think sunbae has been more villagery in thread than ephemeral. there are some sunbae posts that set the sirens going off (the i townread lantana post eod1, their relentless push of insomnia (though i can hardly blame him)).

basically:

raskol kill points to sunbae
overall posting points to eph
eod1 is.... kinda half points to eph

its a tough call, theres not a huge amount to read eph on this game. i think sunbae has been villagerier and if he is the wolf here, well, well done, you can stop claiming i can read you well :P

im not sold on my thoughts here, i can def see lantana just pushing another villager because they thought itd look good/could get away with it, but their weird hangups around eph actually dying skeeved me out as i mentioned yday

anyway ymmv, thats what im thinking rn. i need to reread over d2 a bit more.

i am hoping that either way, you dont shoot me cause i think i have by far the best interactions and i think ive done an okay job of solving evne if my results have not been great lol :P

[Sunbae]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

nobody wolfread dya iirc
if dya is correct, wolves are just ender/lantana

ender/mischief/insom are my poe

re mischief and lantana interaction sunbae: it didn't feel to me like there was any real attempt by lantana or mischief to engage with each other. michief had the entry that taffy and i commented on but lantana didnt, (even though lantana saw the posts because they commented on me after that iirc), and the question lantana asked mischief is something that could easily be w/w in that its a very simple fake interaction thingo

the light townread stuff but also never interacting seems weird to me on both ends

just from memory but "Mischief what's your Rasko read summarized in one sentence now?"

is their only interaction? just weird to me

Headspace with the rest of the game (I aint got the energy after that to go into super detail right now):


Tier 1

Ephemeral: Was attempted to be killed by Lan during the end of eod. Almost certainly a villager.

Rask: Called out Lan early, posted well, Lan went hard at them throughout the day: Voted them as the first real wagon that developed during mid day, started using their push on rask flipping wolf to make reads off of other players in a way that would not benefit wolves. Like, it wasn't trying to chain rask wolf into killing villagers that could be partnered with Rask. It was trying to clear people based off Rask flip. Dya also said very different from their w/w game if you're into meta reads. Almost certainly a villager.


Tier 2

Visor: I don't think the way Lan shifted on their read on Visor from V to W citing KATZE META and being diplomatic instead of word salad is w/w. I also don't think, if manufactured, that is the way Visor responds. Nice, laid back, relaxed ?I am aware of everything I post?, ?yes my posting style can change?, and ?I don't see an issue with being diplomatic?. There's no tension nor something for him to point back to for credit (and in that interaction I think it'd certainly be him going for the look good credit and not the other way around). I recognize that this is, well, ironic given I'm giving him credit for it. But I hope that distinction makes sense. Very likely a villager.

Mischief: I think the way Mischief played is right inside town meta. The deference to me/dya on a read of Visor felt really pure, sure, but I'm talking more of the mild stubborness about working via POE in a small game like this. Find villa reads, box out the rest, vote your best bet in there. I liked their backing off of Visor and Rask in that way after those interactions. Knowing that Lan is a wolf, the way they said they'll back off of Rask for now but will revisit if Ender is a wolf is a really good look I think. That's agendaless, no way for ender to flip wolf in a wolf!mischief world now. Very likely a villager.


Tier 3

Ender: If it's not insomnia I think it has to be here. I wish I had some like, big things to point towards but I don't. It's pure poe at this point but I don't think it's reasonable to have big things for EnderWolf anyways. This is a shitty blurb on him, I know. I'm tired. I'm hoping it doesn't matter. If it does I'll do my due diligence.


Insomnia: wrote about this already, think its the wolf

Would it be helpful for us to talk about Mischief more? I really don't think that's the answer (and I think the lack of any interaction between them and the wolf is a town indicative thing rather than a wolf one).

Talk about why it seems more town indicative for you if you could

And ya it'd help me.

Because there's just ... nothing despite the way a Mischief/Lan wolf team would absolutely require something with how day 1 played out. Mischief and Lan were both rather vocal points of the thread a different parts of the day and received a decent amount of pressure. Rask and Dya went at Lan. Lan went at you and Ephemeral. Mischief went after Rask and you. You, Rask, and Taffy went at Mischief. If that's the wolf team how can they never defend each other or start to press each other? They are never, ever sweeping here with that day 1 pressure on both in a vig game and need to do * something *. I can see arguments if they started defending each other: they were under so much pressure they needed to try and sway consensus away. I can see arguments if they had pointed discussions with each other: they needed to look good once one flipped. They have nothing. At no point did they try to help, did they try to distance, did they have any foresight into future days. If that's the team, what are they doing?

quote dump part 1 of me/visor interaction about mischief (more to come and discussion on it, just seems like theres a max # of quotes possible)

[Visor]

theres a world where sunbae/lantana just decided to townread each other and just keep going

depends on the kind of person lantana is. i tried to find new zealand players on mu and gave up lmao

[Sunbae]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

as an aside, im just not feeeeeeling solving from mischief in terms of investigative stuff

like he defends himself from me, but hes not exploring where he wants to kill etc

My experience with Mischief is that he's a lot more reserved on where to kill as a villager and finds spots he likes, goes in on them, and if they dont pan out takes a while to reorient himself. As a wolf he flings votes around a fair bit more with little rhyme or reason. I understand what you're saying and why you're concerned but I'm going to tell you the same thing I told him when he was concerned about you: I think you're misguided here for understandable reasons.

I'm ... trying to do better about that thing I do where I feel good about something and then kinda just put it out into the thread instead of working hard to help others see it too. I'm also thinking that - while I'm hoping this is the easy world and I nabbed a really good case and solved the game - there is a possibility that we live in a hard world (like Rask currently doesn't think it's either of my bottom 2) and if we do *that* is the kill the wolves absolutely need and I'm going to try and vocalize my belief that it's not it and prevent it.

I definitely agree on the zero consideration from either side. Do you think I'm just like, overestimating the amount of foresight wolves should be having here?

I think it's possible that the wolves aren't planning with foresight and intend to just play by ear, which means doing whatever to survive today, hope you're alive tomorrow.

Some wolves do act with foresight and it's possible here, I'm just wary of banking on it

Official Tally as of #519

4 Mischief (Visor, EnderWiggin, Ephemeral, insomnia)
3 insomnia (Mischief, Sunbae, Raskolnikov)

Day 2 ends in

part 2