Casual december game

[hollowkatt]

Several people didn't read ATPG's pre-game posting, huh.

nah, I read it. I also remembered how pizza posted to open a mash on mafiauniverse a short time ago and he was wolf there and this was similar enough that I wanted to let him know I remembered.

[ladd]

vote logic

seems like an obvious wolf

[Vulgard]

I think Csargo is town for the way they talked about Logic. It just felt genuine. No frills.

[Vulgard]

vote logic

seems like an obvious wolf

Can you elaborate?

[ladd]

can you elaborate?

sure thing

But would it really be instant?

wolfy post

I saw these postnums being quoted and assumed they were legit for a minute.

Actual postnum? 130

wolfy post

Interesting use of capital letters.

wolfy post

I don't think that's how you football.

wolfy post

I was thinking the same thing but didn't have the courage to say it right off the bat.

wolfy post

Pizza doing stuff that I won't be able to read until later, most likely after he is dead, where I will go "oh, that was so obvious of alignment in hindsight!"

As for me, I kinda wanted to copy-paste from my last wolfgame here on the org, but that would be solely for pizza's benefit, and I've already devoted 2 paragraphs to him and mentioned literally no one else.
,

wolfy post

[Visor]

sure thing



wolfy post

wolfy post


wolfy post

wolfy post

wolfy post

wolfy post

love it

lock clear

[ladd]

love it

lock clear

[dyachei]

when is deadline?

[Boquise]

i see that you too dont understand how to post gifs here tbh

[Vulgard]

love it

lock clear

Ngl I kinda want to clear you both here but it also feels really stupid.

[Vulgard]

If we're all sussing Pizza we can all agree to yeet him so he doesn't have to face the pain of getting nightkilled if town.

[Vulgard]

Did read Pizza's entire wall, by the way.

[Visor]

amys 'probably not, no' and ladd's 'wolfy post'

top tier posting keep it up friendos

[Visor]

Vote: Logic

fwiw

though as stated above i do also think cape is a wolf

thx for listening to my ted talk

[Vulgard]

I'm not going to lie - I am a bit concerned about ladd as well for his post about Logic here.

vote logic

seems like an obvious wolf

Same idea as my AOTP concerns, just ignore the part about effort because ladd has barely posted. I don't like the confidence coming into this read, especially since it's a popular take and it feels like an LHF-y target if town. The latter part might be a bit tacked-on and forced in my part, which could lead me to confbiasing the slot, but the first part stands.

[Visor]

vulgard v

[Vulgard]

vulgard v

I did feel like posting that would make me obvious, that's the least I can do.

[Visor]

I did feel like posting that would make me obvious, that's the least I can do.

vulgard w

[Vulgard]

vulgard w

Okay, I laughed.

[Vulgard]

I'm not going to lie - I am a bit concerned about ladd as well for his post about Logic here.



Same idea as my AOTP concerns, just ignore the part about effort because ladd has barely posted. I don't like the confidence coming into this read, especially since it's a popular take and it feels like an LHF-y target if town. The latter part might be a bit tacked-on and forced in my part, which could lead me to confbiasing the slot, but the first part stands.

Wtf did I write. It's ATPG, not AOTP. What... does AOTP even abbreviate?

[ladd]

I'm not going to lie - I am a bit concerned about ladd as well for his post about Logic here.



Same idea as my AOTP concerns, just ignore the part about effort because ladd has barely posted. I don't like the confidence coming into this read, especially since it's a popular take and it feels like an LHF-y target if town. The latter part might be a bit tacked-on and forced in my part, which could lead me to confbiasing the slot, but the first part stands.

i'll never get why people even try this instead of just waiting for me to post more when they know I (almost) always will have a lot more to read me on than 1 post


also I am kinda a sucker for vulgard's post on this page about their recent villa games and not making reads and I guess it adds up+read above is not a read wolves have ever made on me

so leaning villa on them now

[ladd]

vote logic

seems like an obvious wolf

sick read

[Vulgard]

i read it and dont get how it's relevant

explain plz?

I thought it was relevant to his early-game posting. He has since stopped doing that, so it is relevant no longer. I said that because people were reading Pizza based on what were essentially shitposts from him and I thought that was silly.

[ladd]

I thought it was relevant to his early-game posting. He has since stopped doing that, so it is relevant no longer. I said that because people were reading Pizza based on what were essentially shitposts from him and I thought that was silly.

i still dont see what pre game posts had to do with it

reading anyone on shit posts is silly

but alrighty

[Vulgard]

i still dont see what pre game posts had to do with it

reading anyone on shit posts is silly

but alrighty

He said pregame he was going to shitpost, then he shitposted for part of day 1 and yet I saw people making reads on him based on it.

[dyachei]

Some selected vulgard posts to show why I think he's villagery. Btw the iso process here sucks

I've realized this isn't very helpful.

My opinion switch was less about what Logic did and more about my thought process. I wasn't happy with me having called Logic towny for that post and 180'd.

I like that he's reconsidering his reads. This doesn't read as hedgy to me but thinking through his reads repeatedly. I don't think he would do this as obviously as a wolf

It's almost like there is nuance in mafia and not everyone has confident, binary reads on people ~12 hours into a game.

I think this sass is villagery.

I'm starting to think you are faking those reads. There's no way you have a confident worldview right now and believe it so strongly.

Me thinking this probably makes you town, though.

I understand the thought process on this one and have explained already why I think other interpretations were pretty uncharitable. This is also from a person who has, on multiple occasions, talked about how bad their recent town games were.

And now I can answer Pizza's concerns from earlier in more depth. I feel genuinely scared of making reads now, because I just finished a game where I had 4 villagers as wolfreads and two wolves as towncore. We did end up winning that game, but I almost singlehandedly made us lose it, and it took the presence of another villager who became an IC for us to win. It was by far my worst town performance ever.

I also had really terrible reads in some other recent games, which doesn't help. So, yeah. I do have thoughts, but I'm afraid of expressing them because I don't want to be lolwrong again. My last game was an awful performance, so was the game before that, and I tried to express more confidence in both because people have historically wolfread me for hedging, much like you're doing. But me expressing more confidence just led to me becoming even more lolwrong and pushing the wolves' agenda for them.

Realistically, I suspect you for being so confident in such a major solve, Pizza, because I couldn't imagine being this confident this early. I simply could not. I don't have a single read right now that I would 100% commit to. I had two such reads early into my last game and both were horrendously wrong. You have a world of four already.

Your pushes on players other than myself also rub me the wrong way. The push on Ender especially feels like you're seeing something I can't possibly see. From my perspective, Ender did something that vaguely seemed pockety, I told him half-jokingly that he was trying to pocket an innocent townie, he bounced back. This could've just been banter or a V/V interaction on our part. He could be a villager for it! Or just a villager. But you seem to be reading his behavior there as really wolfy to the point that you see me as a wolf with him (or at least that's how I interpreted your posting about us). It's really hard for me to parse your confidence, even with your explanation just now, and the thought process around me and Ender. I just think you're reading into stuff with Ender that isn't necessarily there.

And of course, if Ender is a wolf, then you're going to have been right, then I'm going to look awful for making this post, then i might get yeeted and feel I deserved it for playing poorly yet again. Always a risk, and not even too unlikely. You could be right and I could be the dumbass for wolfreading you here. I'm just sitting here with my little perspective and my instinct says "this guy could easily be tryhard wolfing here despite saying he wouldn't tryhard. He shouldn't be trying this hard as a villager, he said he wouldn't try hard and villagers care less, especially when they give slank cover like this." But I'm not even sure if this is a good line of thinking.

It's basically that. I can't express a confident read. Because when I do, I ruin games. My ability to find wolves is bad and does not improve. My ability to find town is hit or miss. I sometimes write godly posts, but I can never recognize when, and I do not pursue it when I do. Me being accused of hedging, and you calling it so wolfy, and you putting so much pressure on me for it, it kinda just feels like you're being opportunistic, especially since you're not looking into why I might be hedging. I feel like that should be a consideration.

I'm talking a lot about myself in this post and it's probably not really helping, but I can't formulate my thoughts about you without talking about myself first and explaining why I'm not giving many reads, especially confident reads. I know that the way I'm reacting to my poor performance in the last game is probably not the best (outright not making confident reads because my last ones were wrong), but the inaccuracy of my reads has been consistent enough lately that I'd rather just give thoughts instead of reads, if that makes sense, and hope that these thoughts help other people - presumably with better reads than me - nail wolves.

I'm not sure how I will operate independently, and I probably won't figure it out this game.

I should end this post here, and I am.

I think the introspection in this post and it's rambliness is more likely to come from a villager. I think a wolf would be more succinct about it.

Main reason I think this is that his reads look weird to me. He has Logic/Vulgard/ATPG as his set of wolfreads, and I think that's a really strange grouping to have as your wolfreads, particularly me/ATPG as I feel like our interactions cannot be perceived as W/W. Spooge, if you read this, please explain that part. If these are all independent wolfreads, then I also think they're weird and I'd like you to explain more.

Although I don't agree with vulgard in this post, it shows he's thinking about reads and what they mean for the game. Also showing that he's grasping who can't be w/w even though it's about himself.

Taffy is my top town.

Csargo/dya/Ender/Taffy is a grouping of people who have staunchly townread me. I do townread them indepenedently, but I feel like their reads on me could be biasing me. Possibly a wolf in here but I don't necessarily want to go there; rn I'd say the wolf is between Csargo and Ender.

I think hollowkatt is probably town, particularly for his posting today.

ladd is probably town for his play on d1 being very idgaf yet wagon switching from Logic when I think he could've reasonably stuck there.

Cape maaaaaybe town but I don't actually believe this super strongly, feels =rand.

Kagemusha is hard null and might actually be a wolf given how many others I townread. Renata is also null and I don't know how people have reads on them. Boquise is null as well.

Pizza is... yeah. I kinda think him not dying last night makes him a wolf and I also had suspicions of him on day 1. He's apparently going to claim PR or something but idk if I'm going to believe him.

Amy/Ender probably contains a wolf by gamestate but if they're V/V I wouldn't necessarily be surprised. I don't have a clear independent read on Amy. I kinda think of both of them as gut town but such reads have literally just failed me in a recent game so I shouldn't put too much stock into them maybe, and I didn't have an independent read on Amy.

I'm taking notice of Logic having a hard wolfread on Visor for pushing him in the first place, and Visor trying to do damage control this SOD. Visor is a strong wolflean.

I think Montmorency is a wolf.

Idk if you can parse this at all but this is more or less what I think. It's not a very clear solve and it's probably never going to be.

I think a wolf would be more...concrete in explaining their reads than this

I admit several of these are weak reasons to v read someone, but looking at the body of work from vulgard makes me think he's a villager

[Csargo]

nah, I read it. I also remembered how pizza posted to open a mash on mafiauniverse a short time ago and he was wolf there and this was similar enough that I wanted to let him know I remembered.

Is this psychological warfare?

[Vulgard]

Just finished my worst towngame in my history of playing mafia, ama.

The contrast between my recent experiences and Pizza's is pretty hilarious.

[Visor]

Just finished my worst towngame in my history of playing mafia, ama.

The contrast between my recent experiences and Pizza's is pretty hilarious.

what happened

[Askthepizzaguy]

I either am on a big delay or we just crossposted so

I just read it and thank you.

May I respond with a wall of my own?

This will be me talking to village!Vulgard.