Casual december game

[Raskolnikov]

Final tally:

Boquise (3): Ender, HK, Monty
Monty (2): Csargo, Boquise

Boquise has been ousted! He flips vanilla town!

SOD7 in 24 hours. GN!

[Raskolnikov]

Csargo has been killed! He was vanilla town.

Day 7 ends in roughly 49 hours. (24th, 7pm Est).

Votes arent locked. Good luck.

@EnderWiggin @hollowkatt @Montmorency @Csargo

[EnderWiggin]

What.

[EnderWiggin]

Vote: Monty

HK has no reason to shake things up and not just kill me last night and then force you/Csargo to cross.

He was effectively cleared. No one sussed him and I am a perfectly fine kill.

I also have no reason for this.

But also why the hell wouldn't you take the 50/50?

[EnderWiggin]

I'll be doing another reread later today but honestly if HK has done all this then:

1. Why?
2. I'm probably not changing.

Last night was easy 1 kill between me or HK and either of us dying didn't really implicate the other. Csargo and Monty were already "keyed" to vote each other after yesterday.

I just don't see why we don't just kill one of the other.

[EnderWiggin]

Only worry in my head:

Why does Monty risk this? This is way riskier when HK and I are reading each other hard town then just slipping one of us out and doming Csargo.

[EnderWiggin]

Boq: "Make sure you don't sleepwalk to a Csargo kill in f3"
Wolf: "I gotchu fam"

[hollowkatt]

Boq: "Make sure you don't sleepwalk to a Csargo kill in f3"
Wolf: "I gotchu fam"

lol right

I'm voting Monty today and I don't think there's an argument than can sway me into Ender.
vote: Monty

[hollowkatt]

and now we sit here for 47.75 hours

[hollowkatt]

I'll be doing another reread later today but honestly if HK has done all this then:

1. Why?
2. I'm probably not changing.

Last night was easy 1 kill between me or HK and either of us dying didn't really implicate the other. Csargo and Monty were already "keyed" to vote each other after yesterday.

I just don't see why we don't just kill one of the other.

one argument is you're the wolf and know I'm going to vote monty today and now that you realize votes aren't locked you've got to appear like you're trying to understand what happened.

[hollowkatt]

Vote: Monty

HK has no reason to shake things up and not just kill me last night and then force you/Csargo to cross.

He was effectively cleared. No one sussed him and I am a perfectly fine kill.

I also have no reason for this.

But also why the hell wouldn't you take the 50/50?

if monty takes me/csargo or you/csargo it telegraphs that csargo is the person he wanted in lylo to chop for the win. I think he couldn't take csargo for that reason. He should have because of the omg wifom that would go on, but tbh he should have killed me b/c I'm always voting monty here.

[hollowkatt]

anyways, storms a-comin' and I want to watch it roll in. @ me if there's anything you lot wanna talk about.

[Montmorency]

The sum of our fears. Holloway has been toying with us for a long time then.

I can’t make this case, or at least I’m not making the effort. I’ve already put in way too much time chasing snipes.

Ender, if you don't want to reconsider, I’ll tender my surrender.

Vote: HK GGWP A classic

[EnderWiggin]

one argument is you're the wolf and know I'm going to vote monty today and now that you realize votes aren't locked you've got to appear like you're trying to understand what happened.

Org has never locked votes afaik. Or at least none of the org games I've been late in.

It's much more old school, locked votes were a new thing I had to get my head around when I came back to this game.

[EnderWiggin]

I will do a reread of the game to make sure, but I'm like 90% sure I'm stuck on you Monty. (Reread will be in a few hours at least because irl/work stuff)

[EnderWiggin]

Eh I was bad and just did a reread of D1/D2 at work and I really can't see myself ever voting HK over Monty here.

Monty didn't have great interactions with either Dya or Ladd, and was mostly cleared because of strong D3 solving (which was all incorrect) and a ballsy callout post.

Comparatively, Kage and Dya both helped push HK into contention as a wagon and tried to wagon him 2 days in a row, and he had a good argument with Dya over meta too.

Like if that's distancing then well played.

[EnderWiggin]

Paranoia eats me.

Why was I kept alive.

[Montmorency]

HK seems to have very strong reasons for making the late game kills he did, reasons I could never have thought of because from my position they’re quite ridiculous.

Renata’s death was the first hint that town core was infiltrated. It was a solid kill relative to individuals in the POE at the time, but it's a red flag because if either Ender or HK were scum, by theory it wouldn’t do for one to kill the other because by LYLO they would stick out like a sore thumb. I forget the Mafia terminology, something like ‘Why are you still alive’ syndrome. Both have to be alive so the existence of one covers for the other. (Moreover, as it happened the town core stayed strong without tinfoil, so no extenuating factors were present to interfere with the kill chain.) So either m-HK or m-Ender were locked into only killing Renata and Csargo out of the core (preferably framing Csargo).

But killing Amp and sparing me, or killing Csargo over Ender, just to do me over at LYLO, that’s an infamia, the sign of someone rather cocky about their thread position.

Sheeping Ender onto Kage at EOD5, having voted Csargo - already beginning the attempt to break up the towncore from within - seems like a sign.

Clearly both Ender and HK were under some pressure from all the rest of the mafia at various points, Ender more so than HK. So the presence of distancing alone isn't a decisive factor.

But the EOD2 timeline

Visor (3): HK, Ender, Taffy
Ender (3): Renata, Ladd, Vulgard
Kagemusha (2): Cape, Visor
HK (2): Kagemusha, dya
Vulgard (1): Amy

argl, ninjaed by Boq

EOD in 3 hours 40 minutes roughly

EOD2, Visor has been yeeted under the sun! He flips vanilla town

Visor (6): Ender, Taffy, Renata, Csargo, HK, Boq
Ender (4): Ladd, Vulgard, Monty, Visor
HK (3): Kagemusha, dya, Cape
Vulgard (1): Amy

SOD3 in 24 hours (7 PM EST)

works best with m-HK. Into EOD Visor was putting Kage and dya under a lot of pressure, at which ladd intervened to defend them, as well as Taffy and HK. So dya switched to HK for distancing cred, since HK was under no threat compared to Ender and Visor. Meanwhile, HK was the vote ensuring that Visor died over Ender, since Visor was dangerous - SRing ladd and dya and getting there on Kage - while Ender was less so, and more limbait.

There you have it. Tell Rask if you accept my forfeit/hammer.

[hollowkatt]

yeah I really told my pack to bus me from the word go or ignore me. I then drove buses over dya and kage and expected to end game when I have probably the most pelts of anyone this game. Seems like a great plan.

[Montmorency]

yeah I really told my pack to bus me from the word go or ignore me. I then drove buses over dya and kage and expected to end game when I have probably the most pelts of anyone this game. Seems like a great plan.

They pressured you a whole lot less than Ender. I don't think you needed a plan after D3, being as deep as you were - other than to not kill Ender. Leaving me alive was kind of a cruel loose end as I said, though. Couldn't you have done it to Amy or something?

[hollowkatt]

They pressured you a whole lot less than Ender. I don't think you needed a plan after D3, being as deep as you were - other than to not kill Ender. Leaving me alive was kind of a cruel loose end as I said, though. Couldn't you have done it to Amy or something?

my momma always told me if I can't say anything nice to not say anything at all, but the way I see it is this:
You absolutely could not bring csargo with you because if you did you'd spew that he's town and he's the mistake you need to win the game. That's why ender and myself are here. Killing me means you've got to convince Ender the guy you've been hard pushing for the last two days is a wolf and why would csargo do that when he could bring me and ender instead?

Likewise killing Ender means you've brought me and csargo and I've been waffling on you for a couple of days. Sometimes town sometimes "why are you alive", which means you've got to convince me that csargo is the wolf, not you.

I know I'm not the wolf and I don't think Ender ever plays this game the way he has if he's the wolf. I'm rock solid in that read.

[EnderWiggin]

Why is HK the wolf of us pair, why were you instantly on that Monty?

[Montmorency]

my momma always told me if I can't say anything nice to not say anything at all, but the way I see it is this:
You absolutely could not bring csargo with you because if you did you'd spew that he's town and he's the mistake you need to win the game. That's why ender and myself are here. Killing me means you've got to convince Ender the guy you've been hard pushing for the last two days is a wolf and why would csargo do that when he could bring me and ender instead?

I had to kill Csargo to face the two living consensus locks who TR each other, because there's no way that Csargo as scum would have kept me alive, when instead he could face the - *checks notes* - two living consensus locks who TR each other?

which means you've got to convince me that csargo is the wolf, not you.

Would I rather try to convince you that Ender is scum, or Ender that you are scum?

See, your unusual way of calculating kills is the flaw in your plan.

Would you like to try again?

I was only pushing him D6 by the way; you started D5.

Why is HK the wolf of us pair, why were you instantly on that Monty?

It was certainly not instant, but you were always the lockediest-lock of players (other than Vulgard), and from my review of scum ISOs and wagonomics, you're solid.

[hollowkatt]

I had to kill Csargo to face the two living consensus locks who TR each other, because there's no way that Csargo as scum would have kept me alive, when instead he could face the - *checks notes* - two living consensus locks who TR each other?



Would I rather try to convince you that Ender is scum, or Ender that you are scum?

See, your unusual way of calculating kills is the flaw in your plan.

Would you like to try again?

I was only pushing him D6 by the way; you started D5.



It was certainly not instant, but you were always the lockediest-lock of players (other than Vulgard), and from my review of scum ISOs and wagonomics, you're solid.

Alex I'll take "Things Wolves Have to Say in F3 for 2000 dollars please"

[Montmorency]

You've had reason to be super-cocky about your slot since mid-game began, but I don't mess around like that. If I were scum, my F3 would have been Amy-Csargo or something like that.

[EnderWiggin]

I'm sorry Monty.

If HK is wolf then even when I'm reading him with the assumption he's wolf I'm struggling to see it.

HK's interactions with both Kage and Dya is on a whole different stage to any of the w/w interactions from any of the 3 flipped wolves.

They vote him to top wagon when Taffy is showing strong doubt of HK and trying to push him.

Like, if they decided to risk bussing HK hard on D2 and then have him go deep by flipping wolves when he didn't need to just

Idk

I lose to that I guess.

Locking my Vote to Monty

[EnderWiggin]

Even if I'm right this is not my best F3 tbh. I wanted to ask you both questions and thoughts but the approach of Christmas + me being sick as a dog has just left me with brief moments of sanity to reread.

I hope I'm right, but sorry if I'm not.

[Raskolnikov]

Monty (2): HK, Ender
HK (1): Monty

I am going to end the day earlier since it seems the game has come to an end.

[Raskolnikov]

1. @Visor
2. @Csargo
3. @hollowkatt
4. @Montmorency
5. @Ampharos
6. @luvs2spooge
7. @dyachei
8. @Askthepizzaguy
9. @EnderWiggin
10. @Cape90
11. @ladd
12. @Vulgard
13. @Boquise
14. @Logic
15. @Renata
16. @Totally not Taffy
17. @Kagemusha

Montmorency has been ousted! He was vanilla town!

Congratulation to the wolves, Dyachei, Ladd, Kagemusha, and hollowkatt (the lonewolf who never get to join the wc, but carried nonetheless) for winning this game.

Thanks everybody for playing, thanks Zack for the kind review and Visor for helping with flips.

Enjoy the holidays friendos, su in 2023 gamers

[Askthepizzaguy]

So in case it wasn't clear, I was keeping who I shot secret so that the wolves wouldn't be able to kill the desperado.

I communicated clearly with both Ender and Vulgard before I made the shot, and as soon as Vulgard knew why I had to set things up by crumbing how the person I shot needed to be able to solve it out, by receiving the desperado shot from me, he knew he probably survives the night as long as Ender doesn't die.

He got there on Ladd and shot a wolf.

I played the game tactically with the idea I can be wrong in the full forefront of my mind, to make certain the desperado shot gets used on a wolf even when I am wrong.

The second guessing and sniping at me for playing the role with the premise of preserving it even when wrong, and getting to day 2 in order to use it in the first place, calling it selfish and all kinds of trashy names while I couldn't respond, is much worse than me guessing wrong in a guessing game.

Thank you for the game Raskol, running this while also having a 2 shot vigilante power in a concurrent completed game meant that I had to choose 3 vigilante shots in early game without being nightkilled and the pressure of that absolutely destroyed my ability to be graceful under pressure.

I apologize.

I did my best, and whenever that isn't good enough for others, it's time to stop.