Casual december game

[Csargo]

In order of most likely to know

Pizza

Monty
Csargo

Big gap

Dya (maybe)
Amy (maybe)

I only remember Zack's game where you subbed in and were a woof.

Looking at those posts Visor never used words that exuded confidence in your alignment imo.

If you're town I do think you post high quality analysis, so the visor can soulread me angle is sort of odd tbh.

[Visor]

I only remember Zack's game where you subbed in and were a woof.

Looking at those posts Visor never used words that exuded confidence in your alignment imo.

If you're town I do think you post high quality analysis, so the visor can soulread me angle is sort of odd tbh.

oh i was p confident he was a wolf in that game tbf

[Csargo]

oh i was p confident he was a wolf in that game tbf

Okay, I also don't really think that game is a good barometer of what Logic's saying tho. And I don't recall any other games in recent memory.

[dyachei]

logic, most games i've been in with you, I've let GH read you

but I do still think you're wolfy at a baseline to most people

[Visor]

logic part of the issue is your posting is all reactive atm instead of proactive - you're already assuming u r dead and are saying kill x for reading me wrong instead of finding the actual wolves and villagers in the ppl reading u

idk - i think its something we can get caught up in, its not going to change peoples minds, you need to show some solving

[Logic]

logic part of the issue is your posting is all reactive atm instead of proactive - you're already assuming u r dead and are saying kill x for reading me wrong instead of finding the actual wolves and villagers in the ppl reading u

idk - i think its something we can get caught up in, its not going to change peoples minds, you need to show some solving

I always do some solving regarding how people treat my slot. It's why I have said time and time again that I work better under pressure.

[Logic]

I always do some solving regarding how people treat my slot. It's why I have said time and time again that I work better under pressure.

I just have to do the "solving regarding my own slot" early because I came under fire for treating a casual game in a casual manner.

[Logic]

logic, most games i've been in with you, I've let GH read you

but I do still think you're wolfy at a baseline to most people

All of this sounds like town Dya.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Okay, I also don't really think that game is a good barometer of what Logic's saying tho. And I don't recall any other games in recent memory.

This is not a w/w interaction with visor and everything else Csargo has said about Visor has not been of a distancing or bussing nature, the suspicion reads pure and organic.

[Logic]

I only remember Zack's game where you subbed in and were a woof.

Looking at those posts Visor never used words that exuded confidence in your alignment imo.

If you're town I do think you post high quality analysis, so the visor can soulread me angle is sort of odd tbh.

I thought you knew Visor can soulread me as well as GH can. And what makes you think he doesn't have confidence in the read?

[Csargo]

I thought you knew Visor can soulread me as well as GH can. And what makes you think he doesn't have confidence in the read?

I have a pretty bad memory, so I didn't know that. I also had no idea gh could soulread you tbh.

He seemingly has confidence in his read here, which I can understand, even though he didn't really explain why(?) I don't think. I was talking about the other game, but I was wrong

[Boquise]

I have a pretty bad memory, so I didn't know that. I also had no idea gh could soulread you tbh.

He seemingly has confidence in his read here, which I can understand, even though he didn't really explain why(?) I don't think. I was talking about the other game, but I was wrong

Is GH playing this game?

[Csargo]

Is GH playing this game?

[Boquise]

your post implied that tbh

[dyachei]

idk that logic would prefer he be an elim if he were a wolf

[Csargo]

your post implied that tbh

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I thought you knew Visor can soulread me as well as GH can. And what makes you think he doesn't have confidence in the read?

I have a pretty bad memory, so I didn't know that. I also had no idea gh could soulread you tbh.

He seemingly has confidence in his read here, which I can understand, even though he didn't really explain why(?) I don't think. I was talking about the other game, but I was wrong

How?

[Montmorency]

I only remember Zack's game where you subbed in and were a woof.

Looking at those posts Visor never used words that exuded confidence in your alignment imo.

If you're town I do think you post high quality analysis, so the visor can soulread me angle is sort of odd tbh.

Mass Effect? Where Logic subbed in to a made-scum slot and shitposted a little before ghosting as the absolute consensus ouster settled around him and his team hard-bussed from the outset?

The Logic wagon that Visor initiated?

monty, i think logic/dolby is a wolf

that is the long and short of it

You are doing me a concern.

[D1 Csargo responding to Logic about who should know his meta]

[Csargo]

I was wrong, Visor already called me out on that. It's also tainted cause dolby, so it still would have been wrong anyways.

[Montmorency]

starting to work on ladd now

I was wrong, Visor already called me out on that. It's also tainted cause dolby, so it still would have been wrong anyways.

But I passed it over the first time, and it seems no one other than Visor and Logic had something to say about it, both now being dead. What I'm trying to discern without bias is whether it signals something about mindset, now that the alignments of Visor and Logic are known, as well as that Mafia almost certainly never felt at threat throughout D1 (other than general Pizza anxiety perhaps).

Do you have any thoughts about Taffy?

Sure, hence wildcarding them - and no one has really argued that they can't fit into most teams. If the game course hews to a 'standard' schedule, with no extra deaths, then we have up to five day phases (including today) and 4 night. Assuming doctor fails, the structure of the NK sheet ought to be basically predictable. Not enough time to brute force a likely mafia in Kage-Amp, easily fatal if both are just lurkers. A teammate's deaths will usually offer more info on Kage/Amp than the other way around, by volume of content.

Hence why they should be deprioritized (and Kage-Amp together very rarely, all with dya never).

Relatedly, bad news: I'm going to be completely unavailable at the end of the week, meaning the second half of D5.

[Csargo]

starting to work on ladd now



But I passed it over the first time, and it seems no one other than Visor and Logic had something to say about it, both now being dead. What I'm trying to discern without bias is whether it signals something about mindset, now that the alignments of Visor and Logic are known, as well as that Mafia almost certainly never felt at threat throughout D1 (other than general Pizza anxiety perhaps).

Do you have any thoughts about Taffy?



Sure, hence wildcarding them - and no one has really argued that they can't fit into most teams. If the game course hews to a 'standard' schedule, with no extra deaths, then we have up to five day phases (including today) and 4 night. Assuming doctor fails, the structure of the NK sheet ought to be basically predictable. Not enough time to brute force a likely mafia in Kage-Amp, easily fatal if both are just lurkers. A teammate's deaths will usually offer more info on Kage/Amp than the other way around, by volume of content.

Hence why they should be deprioritized (and Kage-Amp together very rarely, all with dya never).

Relatedly, bad news: I'm going to be completely unavailable at the end of the week, meaning the second half of D5.

I'm pretty sure I used a couple 'think' and 'feels' post in Visor iso of that game, and painted that as uncertainty to prove my point in the argument. I don't think I gain anything for doing it, but read into it what you will.

Taffy can be a woof. I think the treatment of Visor's slot looks less like a townie trying to solve an alignment of a person and more I just don't want to deal with them imo. I can see Visor's perspective, but just feel like it was partially valid.

taffy is a wolf because there is no attitude, just treading water, no push, no sassitude, just posting reasonable sounding thinsg while not moving the game state forward

Felt like the bolded were true yesterday when I was reading Taffy's iso. Think the other stuff was there and makes it just partially accurate.

Kage's spoken about a handful of people, voting hk, calling ladd/Taffy town, and Visor gray from what I remember. I think ladd also offered you/Kage up as people who should have been getting pressured, so idk what to make of it.

[Csargo]

Kage's townreads were a result of Visor question iirc, they weren't just brought up naturally.

[Csargo]

I'm pretty sure I used a couple 'think' and 'feels' post in Visor iso of that game, and painted that as uncertainty to prove my point in the argument. I don't think I gain anything for doing it, but read into it what you will.

Taffy can be a woof. I think the treatment of Visor's slot looks less like a townie trying to solve an alignment of a person and more I just don't want to deal with them imo. I can see Visor's perspective, but just feel like it was partially valid.

Visor quote:

taffy is a wolf because there is no attitude, just treading water, no push, no sassitude, just posting reasonable sounding thinsg while not moving the game state forward

Felt like the bolded were true yesterday when I was reading Taffy's iso. Think the other stuff was there and makes it just partially accurate.

Kage's spoken about a handful of people, voting hk, calling ladd/Taffy town, and Visor gray from what I remember. I think ladd also offered you/Kage up as people who should have been getting pressured, so idk what to make of it.

Kage stuff is also just separate

[Montmorency]

LADD ASSOCIATIONS

NB: I went beyond what I promised and included some people's interactions toward or about ladd. Highlighted text represents what ladd himself was doing/saying, to prevent confusion arising from my format


AMP

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

#745: Amy's reads: uhhh cape and vulgard are probably my strongest townreads. visor and hk maybe a tier below, both mostly off vibes. dya i don't want to kill before i can get a solid read on them, ladd/pizza i kinda just don't want to kill d1 in general

#1161 ladd shooting off reads. Amy is scummy for her posts about Pizza.

#1193: ladd thinks Amy scummy for position on Logic D1, pairs her with Ender, unsure of pairing with Visor.

#1264: Amy's reads post (implicit conditionals on m-Ender): ladd is town and i think my reason for it is kinda stupid. i don't think w!ladd would have any reason to bus w!ender when there are a fair few other suspects with momentum today (e.g. hypothetical v!vulgard, e.g. myself), and in a w!ladd v!ender world i don't think ladd would want to tie my alignment so directly to ender's and risk undermining his wolfread on me when ender flips
"amy surely that isn't the sole thing you're townreading ladd on" idk i think his d1 was a villagery sort of incorrect. i honestly don't think i'm a very good ladd reader, the one other game i've actually played with him he snowed me hard

#1579: From large reads post: amy - refer to my big post+ their wall post feels like a wolf making a huge post to get people off them [...] if [Ender] is a wolf, always kill amy next

#1769: for amy my only fear is dya villa reading them, maybe i should respect dya's read more. but besides that i think they have been wolfy (tho not excessively so) and they fit like a glove in an ender!wolf world

#2112: i could write a poem about why ender and amy are wolves and wolves together

BOQUISE

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

First interactions in #430s about posting gifs

#1240: Boq decides to TR ladd and sheep onto Ender because of ladd's posting since #1160, specifically quoting the D1 summary.
also, if amy is a wolf it means i was awesome yesterday tbh

#1555: Ladd says "i can see this [...] kage also kinda fits with literally any team" in response to Boq finding one of Kage's posts scummy.

#1579: From large reads post: upper PoE (mostly villa leans that i don't feel strong enough about)
boq- has done even less than me eheh. but when he posts i agree with everything he says just dunno if its enough to really move him up

#1764: In humoring Visor's requesst to talk about something other than Visor/Ender: lettuce talk super briefly (cause i gotta go and i am already late lol) about dya and boq
imo dya was very villagery last couple of pages, i feel the renata/HK pushes are the "hipster" pushes dya makes as a villager where they think they latch onto something and go for it despite what everyone else thinks

#1767 completing the thought on Boq: boq idk
i am not the best boq reader. he has felt very chill this game and i havent really disagreed with anything he has said
i also think he defended a lot of people i think are villagers so that wins him points too
but clearly none of those things are impossible to fake as a wolf

#1769: kage feels like someone who is gonna die to the villagers regardless of alignment best i got is that he is not w/w with boq (probably)

#1804: Boq asks ladd what info an Ender ouster will offer

#1810: When Ender suggests a Ladd/Visor team: Ladd said he was leaning on Visor wolf tho

#1816: Boq asks ladd to read him and soon realizes ladd did, quoting the post.

#1832: TRs ladd for a post lamenting the non-casual nature of the game.

#1836: Says "Mmmmh" to a ladd post telling Ender that he is his top SR.

#1908: Boq examines ladd's possible motivations as scum, concluding that "I think by occam's razors, ladd is town tbh. It is way more similar to his modus operandi as town than scum tbh."

#1920: Leans list with ladd as lowest town. Ladd unpaired with both Visor and Ender.

CSARGO

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

#1166: Renata tells ladd how to clear multiquotes.
#1167: Csargo affirms Renata's answer.

#1561: Ladd as part of reads post, asking Visor about Orgahs: renata/csargo both seem v villagery

#1579: From large reads post: leaning villa
csargo - similarish to renata but a bit less strong. good thoughts/solving

#1693: Visor @s Csargo for opinion on Taffy and ladd, Csargo responds in #1714.

#1714: I'll look at taffy and ladd again, my impression was they're both town. Feel like the stuff you said about taffy could easily be v stuff to me. Ladd was just feelies, felt good about their posting as they were catching up.

#1827: I think [Visor] more likely to be a woof than Taffy, maybe even ladd as well. [ @Csargo did you mean Visor scummier than ladd here?]

DYACHEI

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

#730s: First interactions. Ladd makes his second appearance of D1 (see commentary) and dyachei immediately asks for ladd's read on themselves. [I don't like this.] Ladd responds concisely: "You seemed villagery enuf."

#1579: From large reads post: leaning villa
dya - i havent been too hot in reading dya lately but i think the way they are making reads at their own pace and the SNARK everytime anyone dares to shade or wolf read them is >>>rand villa

#1646: Visor asks dya for thoughts on ladd: ladd is lean villager so is taffy. I think the way taffy's approaching the game is decent. I find myself nodding along with his posts

#1690s: Asks Visor about his ladd case, doesn't like taffy's pop-in either. In response to Visor's wall-case responding to dya: yeah i think he hasn't spent enough time in the thread for me to get a good read on him

[ALERT: Contradiction!!!]

#1719 ladd defends dya from Visor SR: maybe if it was 2 years ago but their meta changed a ton

#1736: In response to Renata suggesting that Visor and dya commenting on Taffy is partners ginning up a counterwagon to Visor: villagery post (but i disagree on dya, they look villagery in the exchange imo)

#1764: In humoring Visor's requesst to talk about something other than Visor/Ender: lettuce talk super briefly (cause i gotta go and i am already late lol) about dya and boq
imo dya was very villagery last couple of pages, i feel the renata/HK pushes are the "hipster" pushes dya makes as a villager where they think they latch onto something and go for it despite what everyone else thinks

#1769: for amy my only fear is dya villa reading them, maybe i should respect dya's read more. but besides that i think they have been wolfy (tho not excessively so) and they fit like a glove in an ender!wolf world

HOLLOW (HK)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

#944: HK asks Pizza why he thinks ladd is clear from killing spooge N1.

#996: if [Ender] a wolf at least one partner is in the Kage/Ladd/Dya bucket

#1161: HK's shade of Pizza is "villagery read for early game."

#1579: From large reads post: upper PoE (mostly villa leans that i don't feel strong enough about)
HK - push on pizza d1 was villagery, d2 posting seems fine. keeps going after players who he should know will bite back (pizza,dya) which is rand iyam

#1719 ladd defends HK from Visor SR: did you read the sorcerer game you hosted? i don't think he is posting differently from there (but i concede he may be a wolf)

KAGE

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

#1152: In his leans post, Kage has ladd as the only member of the "town leaning" bucket, specifically for his original case against Logic. However, he also finds ladd's entry - voting Logic out of nowhere - to be scummy. [???]

#1555: Ladd says "i can see this [...] kage also kinda fits with literally any team" in response to Boq finding one of Kage's posts scummy.

#1561: Ladd as part of reads post, asking Visor about Orgahs: kage seems >rand wolf by PoE but i got 0 meta on them

#1579: From large reads post: low PoE (null but leaning wolf by PoE)
kage - ngl the formatting made me skip their huge post and the rest of the posts do nothing for me (and push on HK feels weak)

#1639: In response to Visor's case on ladd: Sorry nope bro. Taffy is in the lightside of things in my books from what ive seen so far and so is ladd.

#1713: ladd laughs at an exchange between Visor and Kage

#1769: kage feels like someone who is gonna die to the villagers regardless of alignment best i got is that he is not w/w with boq (probably)

#1771: reskimming monty iso mega quick i could also see him being a wolf
kinda weird him/kage have got so little heat considering they'd be the 2 easiest target (no offense
i liked a couple of minor points from monty but really nothing i care to hang onto when there is so many villagery people

MONTY

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

#1006: Reads: Ladd & dyachei have rolled mafia in Org games I've - many of us have - played in. I don't remember any meta. Null.

#1161: Monty pushback on Ender looks good while Ender looks bad.

#1164: While shading Ender he ups Ender's read that "For Monty I think the piggyback and the response is broadly a towny response."

#1192: ladd asks about Monty D1 reads (I respond in #1875).

#1553: Dismissing Ender's SR of me: monty is a wolf cause they are low impact? cmn really lol [...] again this feels too level 0

#1561: Ladd as part of reads post, asking Visor about Orgahs: monty also seems more villagery than not

#1579: From large reads post: upper PoE (mostly villa leans that i don't feel strong enough about)
monty - dunno maybe he should be the tier below but i bought some of his d1 posts (the yolo team guess, the pushback on ender). if ender is a wolf i think he looks ok

#1771: reskimming monty iso mega quick i could also see him being a wolf
kinda weird him/kage have got so little heat considering they'd be the 2 easiest target (no offense
i liked a couple of minor points from monty but really nothing i care to hang onto when there is so many villagery people

#1875: I tell ladd that my D1 pings (Amp-Logic-Ender-Visor plus one secret sauce) were vibes-based. I answer Boq's question to ladd in #1804 with "Lots. Wagonomics. D2 interactions."

#2072: I appeal to dya and ladd to wagon Ender with me SOD3. Ladd's first post of the day, and his last action, is to comply, without acknowledging my post.

RENATA

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

#1166: Renata tells ladd how to clear multiquotes.

#1553: Ender criticizes Renata for a post with "Limited town reads, wide scumpool." Ladd's response to this: renata is wolfy cause of too many wolfreads...when thats village indicative if anything ime

#1561: Ladd as part of reads post, asking Visor about Orgahs: renata/csargo both seem v villagery

#1579: From large reads post: villagers
renata - never played with them but they post extremely sharp and very direct. not trying to appease at all and notices/pushes things wolves don't imo

#1601: Renata disagrees with ladd about how to think of Pizza's desperado targeting, certitude that it wasn't Ender. In #1604 ladd tells Renata that his reads on Vulgard and Ender are independent of that. Renata in #1609: It sucks because my reads at the time I left last night were the same, but I can?t just ignore the posts that Ender pointed out. I can?t see Pizza being that irresponsible. If he was, fuck that I?m blaming him.

#1736: In response to Renata suggesting that Visor and dya commenting on Taffy is partners ginning up a counterwagon to Visor: villagery post (but i disagree on dya, they look villagery in the exchange imo)

#1745: Defends #1736 to Visor because "it's an hard post to make."

#1769: renata you seems to have more experience with them than me and i have no clue what their wolf range is but if a random player was posting like they are this game i'd easily call them a villager and call it a day

#1775: Renata agrees with #1771 (see Monty/Kage sections).

#1830: Responding to Taffy about #1771: They're both kind of coasting. GTH I go with Monty as wolf over Kage, half because Kage feels so artless in his lack of engagement and half because Visor likes Kage less.

#1977: Renata reads post: Ladd, I don't know. I tend to like their posting when I read it (aside from the initial vote on Logic from day one) and then I get a little distance and don't like it as much. Nothing consolidated, not going to try today.

TAFFY

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

#907 Taffy's reads wall: Ladd: I thought your post with the quotes from Logic was awful until someone called it a joke. I'm pretty sure you haven't done anything that would let me read you yet.

#1193: ladd's reads: my strongest villa reads are cape/vulgard then pizza/taffy (idk if i mentioned them but i really liked a string of posts they had on..some page. it was v genuine imo)

#1299: Taffy willing to sheep ATPG and Vulgard on positive read of ladd. Also willing to sheep "Montmorencey, Kagemusha, Boquise and Ladd. Given a green check I'd also definitely sheep Ender."

#1579: From large reads post: villagers
taffy - genuinely lack clear for their d2 posting and post 1375 is just never from a wolf

#1606/19: Taffy and ladd discuss desperado OMG I AM DONE FINALLY

#1719 ladd defends taffy from Visor SR: this seems completely opposite to how they seem to be posting afaict they have plenty of attitude/sassiness

#1723: Defending taffy from Visor's vote: and even besides that taffy is the villageriest player itg IMO i can villa case them if needed but they'd be my 1 do not ever kill

#1778: Taffy asks if Renata agrees with #1771 (see Renata/Kage/Monty sections)

#1830: Responding to Taffy about #1771: They're both kind of coasting. GTH I go with Monty as wolf over Kage, half because Kage feels so artless in his lack of engagement and half because Visor likes Kage less.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

VULGARD

mEH

ENDER

#730s: Disagrees with Ender's Logic read: "I dont think thats what logic did?"

#977: Reads: Kage/Ladd/Dyachei are the grouping I don't really have a read on properly rn.

#1038: Reads: Csargo is an ehehhh with Dya/ladd/Kage just above.

#1168: Ender scummy for not wanting to fight with Pizza. Just look in the general vicinity of this post for other attacks on Ender by ladd.

.....

#1719: are you clearing ender just cause maybe he got shot?

#1739: Insisting on the Ender case to Visor

#1785: Ladd calling out Visor's posts as wolfy but continuing to vote me is an interesting mood

#1809: Ladd is wolf and I think with Visor based on how neither wants Visir to flip. Or is that prefliopy ego talking? Idk

Commentary (D1): Ladd's first post is #364, hard-suss on "obv wolf" Logic with a vote. Vulgard fills out the page with concerns about this entry. Logic wagon is very dominant now with 4 votes, Visor is pleased, Ladd builds the case and expresses Cape as "one of my few villagers." Vulgard calls this PIS/TMI. Almost all early ladd interactions are with Visor and/or fluff. Amy remarks that she doesn't need to contribute now that ladd is voting with her on Logic. Cape finds ladd's pop-in to be scummy.

Spooge being overpowered in extensive discussion with Vulgard:

You know the drill with Ladd. If Logic is town we kill Ladd. If Logic is mafia the mafia kill Ladd. Either way Ladd is already dead. Long live Ladd.

Ladd has almost no thread-presence D1 due to time issues. He returns near EOD to tell us that he now suspects Ender more than Visor, for Pizza-interaction reasons (and votes there). He is essentially starting the Ender wagon from scratch, and speaks out against Logic and Visor wagons with basically neutral or mixed reads.

Amy #745: uhhh cape and vulgard are probably my strongest townreads. visor and hk maybe a tier below, both mostly off vibes. dya i don't want to kill before i can get a solid read on them, ladd/pizza i kinda just don't want to kill d1 in general

During EOD neither Visor nor Logic find anything to hold against ladd, though spooge votes ladd. Congratulations again to Cape, Vulgard, and Spooge for seeing through him D1 despite minimal thread presence.


Commentary (D2): I deprioritize recording ladd assoc with dead/clear players for D2 at some point.

From the murder choice, I tend to not think it is Ladd.

kappa

Cape #984: Most interested in voting Kage/ladd/Monty

Vulgard #1011: ladd is probably town for his play on d1 being very idgaf yet wagon switching from Logic when I think he could've reasonably stuck there.

[Just an editorial, but I think high-tier mafia often make such switches between townie wagons on D1 because there are no stakes for them, while potentially creating the illusion of stakes, as well as setting up future antispew]

Pizza #1054: Case for why the NK is not ladd's work.

Ladd gets active again from the #1160s onward. He quickly publishes a number of reactions/reads, starting with reaffirmation of his t-Cape read ("villagery reaction to pizza weird early posting") and ending with more ender push. Lot of focus on people's interactions with Pizza.

#1174 ladd approves of Pizza's scumleans (Vulgard/Spooge/Amp/Ender), starts to find Pizza towny. However, also starts to TL Vulgard for Pizza interactions and other.

#1193 ladd summary hard to categorize:

my strongest villa reads are cape/vulgard

then pizza/taffy (idk if i mentioned them but i really liked a string of posts they had on..some page. it was v genuine imo)

then i villa lean a bunch of people but i could easily be wrong on them -csargo/monty/dya/boq/HK

Pizza #1489: Pizza's death-leans have ladd at the bottom.

Ender reads #1506: I want to wolfread them for their treatment of me but I know that's OMGUS so I'm reserving this slot until I have someone else read them for me.

#1579 is ladd's final full reads post. I distribute contents among the sections above.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

villagers

ladd - lack clear

taffy - genuinely lack clear for their d2 posting and post 1375 is just never from a wolf

cape - the obvious villager by solving

vulgard - the obvious villager by solving #2+ i am a sucker for some of their more "emotional" posting and i buy it. also my guess for who got shot by pizza

renata - never played with them but they post extremely sharp and very direct. not trying to appease at all and notices/pushes things wolves don't imo

leaning villa

csargo - similarish to renata but a bit less strong. good thoughts/solving

dya - i havent been too hot in reading dya lately but i think the way they are making reads at their own pace and the SNARK everytime anyone dares to shade or wolf read them is >>>rand villa

upper PoE (mostly villa leans that i don't feel strong enough about)


boq- has done even less than me eheh. but when he posts i agree with everything he says just dunno if its enough to really move him up


HK - push on pizza d1 was villagery, d2 posting seems fine. keeps going after players who he should know will bite back (pizza,dya) which is rand iyam

monty - dunno maybe he should be the tier below but i bought some of his d1 posts (the yolo team guess, the pushback on ender). if ender is a wolf i think he looks ok


low PoE (null but leaning wolf by PoE)

visor - i mostly read visor by how much he is pondering different scenarios/being paranoid about the direction the game is taking cause ime thats his biggest villa tell. i don't really see it in his d1, kindaaaa see it in his late d2. couple of posts also give me the creeps (post about cape and 1 about monty around mid d2)

kage - ngl the formatting made me skip their huge post and the rest of the posts do nothing for me (and push on HK feels weak)

wolves
ender - refer to my big post
amy - refer to my big post+ their wall post feels like a wolf making a huge post to get people off them



this is where i am at

i still think we should flip ender. if he is not a wolf gimme the desperado tonight, like for real

if he is a wolf, always kill amy next

I want to say Ladd is probably wolf too. Ladd still trying to push me when I was obviously the desperado shot is nagl.

Xposting with ladd's wall of reads is excellent.

In the #1600s Visor cases Ladd, as well as Taffy, dya, and HK. See character logs at the top - interesting that at the same time, Kage and dya - in response to Visor - had the same low-detail TLs on ladd and taffy.

#1719 is a very important ladd post defending taffy/hollow/dya from Visor (I've quoted it previously).

ladd interacts with Visor quite a lot throughout D2, esp. late day, esp. about Ender.

let's say you [Visor] are villager

why not something like ender/amy/kage/(hk/monty/maybeee boq)

i feel like you are either a villager going too down in the rabbit holes and making the game harder on himself or a wolf going for the YOLO. i am leaning the 2nd right now but WHO KNOWS

or it's also possible i am the villager on upside down world but if ender/amy are v/v idek what teams are possible, i think my top villagers +dya are all villagers a lot of the times

ladd D2 scumleans hard to categorize #1756

Cape struggles with his scumlean on ladd throughout the day.

Random observation: ladd interacts most heavily with people he scumreads or is voting, or top thread suspects.

[Montmorency]

Fucking sanity check all my shit.

[Totally not Taffy]

Fucking sanity check all my shit.

I think Ladd is a very capable wolf so spewreading might not work well, but ok.

Ampharos: I think if Ladd was bussing/distancing from Ender it's unlikely Ampharos is also a wolf. Esp combined with #1174

Boq: I cannot make any conclusions here

Csargo: short, not sure that's indicative one way or another

Dyachei: yes you're right about the contradiction

HK: in hindsight, that was an insightful question about the N1, and maybe you wouldn't undermine a teammate like this when a town townreads them?

Kagemusha: #1771 maybe now w/w with Ender?

Monty: Ender's right in his reasoning for uncoupling you from Dyachei

Renata: I cannot make any conclusions here

Ender: #1506 looks bad, if you're misclearing someone it's Ender

[Csargo]

LADD ASSOCIATIONS

NB: I went beyond what I promised and included some people's interactions toward or about ladd. Highlighted text represents what ladd himself was doing/saying, to prevent confusion arising from my format


AMP

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

#745: Amy's reads: uhhh cape and vulgard are probably my strongest townreads. visor and hk maybe a tier below, both mostly off vibes. dya i don't want to kill before i can get a solid read on them, ladd/pizza i kinda just don't want to kill d1 in general

#1161 ladd shooting off reads. Amy is scummy for her posts about Pizza.

#1193: ladd thinks Amy scummy for position on Logic D1, pairs her with Ender, unsure of pairing with Visor.

#1264: Amy's reads post (implicit conditionals on m-Ender): ladd is town and i think my reason for it is kinda stupid. i don't think w!ladd would have any reason to bus w!ender when there are a fair few other suspects with momentum today (e.g. hypothetical v!vulgard, e.g. myself), and in a w!ladd v!ender world i don't think ladd would want to tie my alignment so directly to ender's and risk undermining his wolfread on me when ender flips
"amy surely that isn't the sole thing you're townreading ladd on" idk i think his d1 was a villagery sort of incorrect. i honestly don't think i'm a very good ladd reader, the one other game i've actually played with him he snowed me hard

#1579: From large reads post: amy - refer to my big post+ their wall post feels like a wolf making a huge post to get people off them [...] if [Ender] is a wolf, always kill amy next

#1769: for amy my only fear is dya villa reading them, maybe i should respect dya's read more. but besides that i think they have been wolfy (tho not excessively so) and they fit like a glove in an ender!wolf world

#2112: i could write a poem about why ender and amy are wolves and wolves together

BOQUISE

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

First interactions in #430s about posting gifs

#1240: Boq decides to TR ladd and sheep onto Ender because of ladd's posting since #1160, specifically quoting the D1 summary.
also, if amy is a wolf it means i was awesome yesterday tbh

#1555: Ladd says "i can see this [...] kage also kinda fits with literally any team" in response to Boq finding one of Kage's posts scummy.

#1579: From large reads post: upper PoE (mostly villa leans that i don't feel strong enough about)
boq- has done even less than me eheh. but when he posts i agree with everything he says just dunno if its enough to really move him up

#1764: In humoring Visor's requesst to talk about something other than Visor/Ender: lettuce talk super briefly (cause i gotta go and i am already late lol) about dya and boq
imo dya was very villagery last couple of pages, i feel the renata/HK pushes are the "hipster" pushes dya makes as a villager where they think they latch onto something and go for it despite what everyone else thinks

#1767 completing the thought on Boq: boq idk
i am not the best boq reader. he has felt very chill this game and i havent really disagreed with anything he has said
i also think he defended a lot of people i think are villagers so that wins him points too
but clearly none of those things are impossible to fake as a wolf

#1769: kage feels like someone who is gonna die to the villagers regardless of alignment best i got is that he is not w/w with boq (probably)

#1804: Boq asks ladd what info an Ender ouster will offer

#1810: When Ender suggests a Ladd/Visor team: Ladd said he was leaning on Visor wolf tho

#1816: Boq asks ladd to read him and soon realizes ladd did, quoting the post.

#1832: TRs ladd for a post lamenting the non-casual nature of the game.

#1836: Says "Mmmmh" to a ladd post telling Ender that he is his top SR.

#1908: Boq examines ladd's possible motivations as scum, concluding that "I think by occam's razors, ladd is town tbh. It is way more similar to his modus operandi as town than scum tbh."

#1920: Leans list with ladd as lowest town. Ladd unpaired with both Visor and Ender.

CSARGO

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

#1166: Renata tells ladd how to clear multiquotes.
#1167: Csargo affirms Renata's answer.

#1561: Ladd as part of reads post, asking Visor about Orgahs: renata/csargo both seem v villagery

#1579: From large reads post: leaning villa
csargo - similarish to renata but a bit less strong. good thoughts/solving

#1693: Visor @s Csargo for opinion on Taffy and ladd, Csargo responds in #1714.

#1714: I'll look at taffy and ladd again, my impression was they're both town. Feel like the stuff you said about taffy could easily be v stuff to me. Ladd was just feelies, felt good about their posting as they were catching up.

#1827: I think [Visor] more likely to be a woof than Taffy, maybe even ladd as well. [ @Csargo did you mean Visor scummier than ladd here?]

Yeah, I thought it was possible. I had a lot of problems with Visor's play and talked about them in one of the posts responding to Visor.

[Montmorency]

WOG is Wrath of God i.e. modkill. Used to happen in almost every game due to inactivity.

[Boquise]

LADD ASSOCIATIONS

NB: I went beyond what I promised and included some people's interactions toward or about ladd. Highlighted text represents what ladd himself was doing/saying, to prevent confusion arising from my format


AMP

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

#745: Amy's reads: uhhh cape and vulgard are probably my strongest townreads. visor and hk maybe a tier below, both mostly off vibes. dya i don't want to kill before i can get a solid read on them, ladd/pizza i kinda just don't want to kill d1 in general

#1161 ladd shooting off reads. Amy is scummy for her posts about Pizza.

#1193: ladd thinks Amy scummy for position on Logic D1, pairs her with Ender, unsure of pairing with Visor.

#1264: Amy's reads post (implicit conditionals on m-Ender): ladd is town and i think my reason for it is kinda stupid. i don't think w!ladd would have any reason to bus w!ender when there are a fair few other suspects with momentum today (e.g. hypothetical v!vulgard, e.g. myself), and in a w!ladd v!ender world i don't think ladd would want to tie my alignment so directly to ender's and risk undermining his wolfread on me when ender flips
"amy surely that isn't the sole thing you're townreading ladd on" idk i think his d1 was a villagery sort of incorrect. i honestly don't think i'm a very good ladd reader, the one other game i've actually played with him he snowed me hard

#1579: From large reads post: amy - refer to my big post+ their wall post feels like a wolf making a huge post to get people off them [...] if [Ender] is a wolf, always kill amy next

#1769: for amy my only fear is dya villa reading them, maybe i should respect dya's read more. but besides that i think they have been wolfy (tho not excessively so) and they fit like a glove in an ender!wolf world

#2112: i could write a poem about why ender and amy are wolves and wolves together

BOQUISE

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

First interactions in #430s about posting gifs

#1240: Boq decides to TR ladd and sheep onto Ender because of ladd's posting since #1160, specifically quoting the D1 summary.
also, if amy is a wolf it means i was awesome yesterday tbh

#1555: Ladd says "i can see this [...] kage also kinda fits with literally any team" in response to Boq finding one of Kage's posts scummy.

#1579: From large reads post: upper PoE (mostly villa leans that i don't feel strong enough about)
boq- has done even less than me eheh. but when he posts i agree with everything he says just dunno if its enough to really move him up

#1764: In humoring Visor's requesst to talk about something other than Visor/Ender: lettuce talk super briefly (cause i gotta go and i am already late lol) about dya and boq
imo dya was very villagery last couple of pages, i feel the renata/HK pushes are the "hipster" pushes dya makes as a villager where they think they latch onto something and go for it despite what everyone else thinks

#1767 completing the thought on Boq: boq idk
i am not the best boq reader. he has felt very chill this game and i havent really disagreed with anything he has said
i also think he defended a lot of people i think are villagers so that wins him points too
but clearly none of those things are impossible to fake as a wolf

#1769: kage feels like someone who is gonna die to the villagers regardless of alignment best i got is that he is not w/w with boq (probably)

#1804: Boq asks ladd what info an Ender ouster will offer

#1810: When Ender suggests a Ladd/Visor team: Ladd said he was leaning on Visor wolf tho

#1816: Boq asks ladd to read him and soon realizes ladd did, quoting the post.

#1832: TRs ladd for a post lamenting the non-casual nature of the game.

#1836: Says "Mmmmh" to a ladd post telling Ender that he is his top SR.

#1908: Boq examines ladd's possible motivations as scum, concluding that "I think by occam's razors, ladd is town tbh. It is way more similar to his modus operandi as town than scum tbh."

#1920: Leans list with ladd as lowest town. Ladd unpaired with both Visor and Ender.

CSARGO

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

#1166: Renata tells ladd how to clear multiquotes.
#1167: Csargo affirms Renata's answer.

#1561: Ladd as part of reads post, asking Visor about Orgahs: renata/csargo both seem v villagery

#1579: From large reads post: leaning villa
csargo - similarish to renata but a bit less strong. good thoughts/solving

#1693: Visor @s Csargo for opinion on Taffy and ladd, Csargo responds in #1714.

#1714: I'll look at taffy and ladd again, my impression was they're both town. Feel like the stuff you said about taffy could easily be v stuff to me. Ladd was just feelies, felt good about their posting as they were catching up.

#1827: I think [Visor] more likely to be a woof than Taffy, maybe even ladd as well. [ @Csargo did you mean Visor scummier than ladd here?]

DYACHEI

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

#730s: First interactions. Ladd makes his second appearance of D1 (see commentary) and dyachei immediately asks for ladd's read on themselves. [I don't like this.] Ladd responds concisely: "You seemed villagery enuf."

#1579: From large reads post: leaning villa
dya - i havent been too hot in reading dya lately but i think the way they are making reads at their own pace and the SNARK everytime anyone dares to shade or wolf read them is >>>rand villa

#1646: Visor asks dya for thoughts on ladd: ladd is lean villager so is taffy. I think the way taffy's approaching the game is decent. I find myself nodding along with his posts

#1690s: Asks Visor about his ladd case, doesn't like taffy's pop-in either. In response to Visor's wall-case responding to dya: yeah i think he hasn't spent enough time in the thread for me to get a good read on him

[ALERT: Contradiction!!!]

#1719 ladd defends dya from Visor SR: maybe if it was 2 years ago but their meta changed a ton

#1736: In response to Renata suggesting that Visor and dya commenting on Taffy is partners ginning up a counterwagon to Visor: villagery post (but i disagree on dya, they look villagery in the exchange imo)

#1764: In humoring Visor's requesst to talk about something other than Visor/Ender: lettuce talk super briefly (cause i gotta go and i am already late lol) about dya and boq
imo dya was very villagery last couple of pages, i feel the renata/HK pushes are the "hipster" pushes dya makes as a villager where they think they latch onto something and go for it despite what everyone else thinks

#1769: for amy my only fear is dya villa reading them, maybe i should respect dya's read more. but besides that i think they have been wolfy (tho not excessively so) and they fit like a glove in an ender!wolf world

HOLLOW (HK)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

#944: HK asks Pizza why he thinks ladd is clear from killing spooge N1.

#996: if [Ender] a wolf at least one partner is in the Kage/Ladd/Dya bucket

#1161: HK's shade of Pizza is "villagery read for early game."

#1579: From large reads post: upper PoE (mostly villa leans that i don't feel strong enough about)
HK - push on pizza d1 was villagery, d2 posting seems fine. keeps going after players who he should know will bite back (pizza,dya) which is rand iyam

#1719 ladd defends HK from Visor SR: did you read the sorcerer game you hosted? i don't think he is posting differently from there (but i concede he may be a wolf)

KAGE

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

#1152: In his leans post, Kage has ladd as the only member of the "town leaning" bucket, specifically for his original case against Logic. However, he also finds ladd's entry - voting Logic out of nowhere - to be scummy. [???]

#1555: Ladd says "i can see this [...] kage also kinda fits with literally any team" in response to Boq finding one of Kage's posts scummy.

#1561: Ladd as part of reads post, asking Visor about Orgahs: kage seems >rand wolf by PoE but i got 0 meta on them

#1579: From large reads post: low PoE (null but leaning wolf by PoE)
kage - ngl the formatting made me skip their huge post and the rest of the posts do nothing for me (and push on HK feels weak)

#1639: In response to Visor's case on ladd: Sorry nope bro. Taffy is in the lightside of things in my books from what ive seen so far and so is ladd.

#1713: ladd laughs at an exchange between Visor and Kage

#1769: kage feels like someone who is gonna die to the villagers regardless of alignment best i got is that he is not w/w with boq (probably)

#1771: reskimming monty iso mega quick i could also see him being a wolf
kinda weird him/kage have got so little heat considering they'd be the 2 easiest target (no offense
i liked a couple of minor points from monty but really nothing i care to hang onto when there is so many villagery people

MONTY

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

#1006: Reads: Ladd & dyachei have rolled mafia in Org games I've - many of us have - played in. I don't remember any meta. Null.

#1161: Monty pushback on Ender looks good while Ender looks bad.

#1164: While shading Ender he ups Ender's read that "For Monty I think the piggyback and the response is broadly a towny response."

#1192: ladd asks about Monty D1 reads (I respond in #1875).

#1553: Dismissing Ender's SR of me: monty is a wolf cause they are low impact? cmn really lol [...] again this feels too level 0

#1561: Ladd as part of reads post, asking Visor about Orgahs: monty also seems more villagery than not

#1579: From large reads post: upper PoE (mostly villa leans that i don't feel strong enough about)
monty - dunno maybe he should be the tier below but i bought some of his d1 posts (the yolo team guess, the pushback on ender). if ender is a wolf i think he looks ok

#1771: reskimming monty iso mega quick i could also see him being a wolf
kinda weird him/kage have got so little heat considering they'd be the 2 easiest target (no offense
i liked a couple of minor points from monty but really nothing i care to hang onto when there is so many villagery people

#1875: I tell ladd that my D1 pings (Amp-Logic-Ender-Visor plus one secret sauce) were vibes-based. I answer Boq's question to ladd in #1804 with "Lots. Wagonomics. D2 interactions."

#2072: I appeal to dya and ladd to wagon Ender with me SOD3. Ladd's first post of the day, and his last action, is to comply, without acknowledging my post.

RENATA

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

#1166: Renata tells ladd how to clear multiquotes.

#1553: Ender criticizes Renata for a post with "Limited town reads, wide scumpool." Ladd's response to this: renata is wolfy cause of too many wolfreads...when thats village indicative if anything ime

#1561: Ladd as part of reads post, asking Visor about Orgahs: renata/csargo both seem v villagery

#1579: From large reads post: villagers
renata - never played with them but they post extremely sharp and very direct. not trying to appease at all and notices/pushes things wolves don't imo

#1601: Renata disagrees with ladd about how to think of Pizza's desperado targeting, certitude that it wasn't Ender. In #1604 ladd tells Renata that his reads on Vulgard and Ender are independent of that. Renata in #1609: It sucks because my reads at the time I left last night were the same, but I can?t just ignore the posts that Ender pointed out. I can?t see Pizza being that irresponsible. If he was, fuck that I?m blaming him.

#1736: In response to Renata suggesting that Visor and dya commenting on Taffy is partners ginning up a counterwagon to Visor: villagery post (but i disagree on dya, they look villagery in the exchange imo)

#1745: Defends #1736 to Visor because "it's an hard post to make."

#1769: renata you seems to have more experience with them than me and i have no clue what their wolf range is but if a random player was posting like they are this game i'd easily call them a villager and call it a day

#1775: Renata agrees with #1771 (see Monty/Kage sections).

#1830: Responding to Taffy about #1771: They're both kind of coasting. GTH I go with Monty as wolf over Kage, half because Kage feels so artless in his lack of engagement and half because Visor likes Kage less.

#1977: Renata reads post: Ladd, I don't know. I tend to like their posting when I read it (aside from the initial vote on Logic from day one) and then I get a little distance and don't like it as much. Nothing consolidated, not going to try today.

TAFFY

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

#907 Taffy's reads wall: Ladd: I thought your post with the quotes from Logic was awful until someone called it a joke. I'm pretty sure you haven't done anything that would let me read you yet.

#1193: ladd's reads: my strongest villa reads are cape/vulgard then pizza/taffy (idk if i mentioned them but i really liked a string of posts they had on..some page. it was v genuine imo)

#1299: Taffy willing to sheep ATPG and Vulgard on positive read of ladd. Also willing to sheep "Montmorencey, Kagemusha, Boquise and Ladd. Given a green check I'd also definitely sheep Ender."

#1579: From large reads post: villagers
taffy - genuinely lack clear for their d2 posting and post 1375 is just never from a wolf

#1606/19: Taffy and ladd discuss desperado OMG I AM DONE FINALLY

#1719 ladd defends taffy from Visor SR: this seems completely opposite to how they seem to be posting afaict they have plenty of attitude/sassiness

#1723: Defending taffy from Visor's vote: and even besides that taffy is the villageriest player itg IMO i can villa case them if needed but they'd be my 1 do not ever kill

#1778: Taffy asks if Renata agrees with #1771 (see Renata/Kage/Monty sections)

#1830: Responding to Taffy about #1771: They're both kind of coasting. GTH I go with Monty as wolf over Kage, half because Kage feels so artless in his lack of engagement and half because Visor likes Kage less.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

VULGARD

mEH

ENDER

#730s: Disagrees with Ender's Logic read: "I dont think thats what logic did?"

#977: Reads: Kage/Ladd/Dyachei are the grouping I don't really have a read on properly rn.

#1038: Reads: Csargo is an ehehhh with Dya/ladd/Kage just above.

#1168: Ender scummy for not wanting to fight with Pizza. Just look in the general vicinity of this post for other attacks on Ender by ladd.

.....

#1719: are you clearing ender just cause maybe he got shot?

#1739: Insisting on the Ender case to Visor

#1785: Ladd calling out Visor's posts as wolfy but continuing to vote me is an interesting mood

#1809: Ladd is wolf and I think with Visor based on how neither wants Visir to flip. Or is that prefliopy ego talking? Idk

Commentary (D1): Ladd's first post is #364, hard-suss on "obv wolf" Logic with a vote. Vulgard fills out the page with concerns about this entry. Logic wagon is very dominant now with 4 votes, Visor is pleased, Ladd builds the case and expresses Cape as "one of my few villagers." Vulgard calls this PIS/TMI. Almost all early ladd interactions are with Visor and/or fluff. Amy remarks that she doesn't need to contribute now that ladd is voting with her on Logic. Cape finds ladd's pop-in to be scummy.

Spooge being overpowered in extensive discussion with Vulgard:





Ladd has almost no thread-presence D1 due to time issues. He returns near EOD to tell us that he now suspects Ender more than Visor, for Pizza-interaction reasons (and votes there). He is essentially starting the Ender wagon from scratch, and speaks out against Logic and Visor wagons with basically neutral or mixed reads.

Amy #745: uhhh cape and vulgard are probably my strongest townreads. visor and hk maybe a tier below, both mostly off vibes. dya i don't want to kill before i can get a solid read on them, ladd/pizza i kinda just don't want to kill d1 in general

During EOD neither Visor nor Logic find anything to hold against ladd, though spooge votes ladd. Congratulations again to Cape, Vulgard, and Spooge for seeing through him D1 despite minimal thread presence.


Commentary (D2): I deprioritize recording ladd assoc with dead/clear players for D2 at some point.



kappa

Cape #984: Most interested in voting Kage/ladd/Monty

Vulgard #1011: ladd is probably town for his play on d1 being very idgaf yet wagon switching from Logic when I think he could've reasonably stuck there.

[Just an editorial, but I think high-tier mafia often make such switches between townie wagons on D1 because there are no stakes for them, while potentially creating the illusion of stakes, as well as setting up future antispew]

Pizza #1054: Case for why the NK is not ladd's work.

Ladd gets active again from the #1160s onward. He quickly publishes a number of reactions/reads, starting with reaffirmation of his t-Cape read ("villagery reaction to pizza weird early posting") and ending with more ender push. Lot of focus on people's interactions with Pizza.

#1174 ladd approves of Pizza's scumleans (Vulgard/Spooge/Amp/Ender), starts to find Pizza towny. However, also starts to TL Vulgard for Pizza interactions and other.

#1193 ladd summary hard to categorize:



Pizza #1489: Pizza's death-leans have ladd at the bottom.

Ender reads #1506: I want to wolfread them for their treatment of me but I know that's OMGUS so I'm reserving this slot until I have someone else read them for me.

#1579 is ladd's final full reads post. I distribute contents among the sections above.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Xposting with ladd's wall of reads is excellent.

In the #1600s Visor cases Ladd, as well as Taffy, dya, and HK. See character logs at the top - interesting that at the same time, Kage and dya - in response to Visor - had the same low-detail TLs on ladd and taffy.

#1719 is a very important ladd post defending taffy/hollow/dya from Visor (I've quoted it previously).

ladd interacts with Visor quite a lot throughout D2, esp. late day, esp. about Ender.



ladd D2 scumleans hard to categorize #1756

Cape struggles with his scumlean on ladd throughout the day.

Random observation: ladd interacts most heavily with people he scumreads or is voting, or top thread suspects.

i skimmed the parts of me because i am egoistical tbh and the parts ladd said about kage makes me think kage is unpaired with him. Which makes me go hmm more at Amy trying to start a wagon on Kage tbh

[hollowkatt]

LADD ASSOCIATIONS

NB: I went beyond what I promised and included some people's interactions toward or about ladd. Highlighted text represents what ladd himself was doing/saying, to prevent confusion arising from my format


AMP

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

#745: Amy's reads: uhhh cape and vulgard are probably my strongest townreads. visor and hk maybe a tier below, both mostly off vibes. dya i don't want to kill before i can get a solid read on them, ladd/pizza i kinda just don't want to kill d1 in general

#1161 ladd shooting off reads. Amy is scummy for her posts about Pizza.

#1193: ladd thinks Amy scummy for position on Logic D1, pairs her with Ender, unsure of pairing with Visor.

#1264: Amy's reads post (implicit conditionals on m-Ender): ladd is town and i think my reason for it is kinda stupid. i don't think w!ladd would have any reason to bus w!ender when there are a fair few other suspects with momentum today (e.g. hypothetical v!vulgard, e.g. myself), and in a w!ladd v!ender world i don't think ladd would want to tie my alignment so directly to ender's and risk undermining his wolfread on me when ender flips
"amy surely that isn't the sole thing you're townreading ladd on" idk i think his d1 was a villagery sort of incorrect. i honestly don't think i'm a very good ladd reader, the one other game i've actually played with him he snowed me hard

#1579: From large reads post: amy - refer to my big post+ their wall post feels like a wolf making a huge post to get people off them [...] if [Ender] is a wolf, always kill amy next

#1769: for amy my only fear is dya villa reading them, maybe i should respect dya's read more. but besides that i think they have been wolfy (tho not excessively so) and they fit like a glove in an ender!wolf world

#2112: i could write a poem about why ender and amy are wolves and wolves together

BOQUISE

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

First interactions in #430s about posting gifs

#1240: Boq decides to TR ladd and sheep onto Ender because of ladd's posting since #1160, specifically quoting the D1 summary.
also, if amy is a wolf it means i was awesome yesterday tbh

#1555: Ladd says "i can see this [...] kage also kinda fits with literally any team" in response to Boq finding one of Kage's posts scummy.

#1579: From large reads post: upper PoE (mostly villa leans that i don't feel strong enough about)
boq- has done even less than me eheh. but when he posts i agree with everything he says just dunno if its enough to really move him up

#1764: In humoring Visor's requesst to talk about something other than Visor/Ender: lettuce talk super briefly (cause i gotta go and i am already late lol) about dya and boq
imo dya was very villagery last couple of pages, i feel the renata/HK pushes are the "hipster" pushes dya makes as a villager where they think they latch onto something and go for it despite what everyone else thinks

#1767 completing the thought on Boq: boq idk
i am not the best boq reader. he has felt very chill this game and i havent really disagreed with anything he has said
i also think he defended a lot of people i think are villagers so that wins him points too
but clearly none of those things are impossible to fake as a wolf

#1769: kage feels like someone who is gonna die to the villagers regardless of alignment best i got is that he is not w/w with boq (probably)

#1804: Boq asks ladd what info an Ender ouster will offer

#1810: When Ender suggests a Ladd/Visor team: Ladd said he was leaning on Visor wolf tho

#1816: Boq asks ladd to read him and soon realizes ladd did, quoting the post.

#1832: TRs ladd for a post lamenting the non-casual nature of the game.

#1836: Says "Mmmmh" to a ladd post telling Ender that he is his top SR.

#1908: Boq examines ladd's possible motivations as scum, concluding that "I think by occam's razors, ladd is town tbh. It is way more similar to his modus operandi as town than scum tbh."

#1920: Leans list with ladd as lowest town. Ladd unpaired with both Visor and Ender.

CSARGO

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

#1166: Renata tells ladd how to clear multiquotes.
#1167: Csargo affirms Renata's answer.

#1561: Ladd as part of reads post, asking Visor about Orgahs: renata/csargo both seem v villagery

#1579: From large reads post: leaning villa
csargo - similarish to renata but a bit less strong. good thoughts/solving

#1693: Visor @s Csargo for opinion on Taffy and ladd, Csargo responds in #1714.

#1714: I'll look at taffy and ladd again, my impression was they're both town. Feel like the stuff you said about taffy could easily be v stuff to me. Ladd was just feelies, felt good about their posting as they were catching up.

#1827: I think [Visor] more likely to be a woof than Taffy, maybe even ladd as well. [ @Csargo did you mean Visor scummier than ladd here?]

DYACHEI

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

#730s: First interactions. Ladd makes his second appearance of D1 (see commentary) and dyachei immediately asks for ladd's read on themselves. [I don't like this.] Ladd responds concisely: "You seemed villagery enuf."

#1579: From large reads post: leaning villa
dya - i havent been too hot in reading dya lately but i think the way they are making reads at their own pace and the SNARK everytime anyone dares to shade or wolf read them is >>>rand villa

#1646: Visor asks dya for thoughts on ladd: ladd is lean villager so is taffy. I think the way taffy's approaching the game is decent. I find myself nodding along with his posts

#1690s: Asks Visor about his ladd case, doesn't like taffy's pop-in either. In response to Visor's wall-case responding to dya: yeah i think he hasn't spent enough time in the thread for me to get a good read on him

[ALERT: Contradiction!!!]

#1719 ladd defends dya from Visor SR: maybe if it was 2 years ago but their meta changed a ton

#1736: In response to Renata suggesting that Visor and dya commenting on Taffy is partners ginning up a counterwagon to Visor: villagery post (but i disagree on dya, they look villagery in the exchange imo)

#1764: In humoring Visor's requesst to talk about something other than Visor/Ender: lettuce talk super briefly (cause i gotta go and i am already late lol) about dya and boq
imo dya was very villagery last couple of pages, i feel the renata/HK pushes are the "hipster" pushes dya makes as a villager where they think they latch onto something and go for it despite what everyone else thinks

#1769: for amy my only fear is dya villa reading them, maybe i should respect dya's read more. but besides that i think they have been wolfy (tho not excessively so) and they fit like a glove in an ender!wolf world

HOLLOW (HK)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

#944: HK asks Pizza why he thinks ladd is clear from killing spooge N1.

#996: if [Ender] a wolf at least one partner is in the Kage/Ladd/Dya bucket

#1161: HK's shade of Pizza is "villagery read for early game."

#1579: From large reads post: upper PoE (mostly villa leans that i don't feel strong enough about)
HK - push on pizza d1 was villagery, d2 posting seems fine. keeps going after players who he should know will bite back (pizza,dya) which is rand iyam

#1719 ladd defends HK from Visor SR: did you read the sorcerer game you hosted? i don't think he is posting differently from there (but i concede he may be a wolf)

KAGE

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

#1152: In his leans post, Kage has ladd as the only member of the "town leaning" bucket, specifically for his original case against Logic. However, he also finds ladd's entry - voting Logic out of nowhere - to be scummy. [???]

#1555: Ladd says "i can see this [...] kage also kinda fits with literally any team" in response to Boq finding one of Kage's posts scummy.

#1561: Ladd as part of reads post, asking Visor about Orgahs: kage seems >rand wolf by PoE but i got 0 meta on them

#1579: From large reads post: low PoE (null but leaning wolf by PoE)
kage - ngl the formatting made me skip their huge post and the rest of the posts do nothing for me (and push on HK feels weak)

#1639: In response to Visor's case on ladd: Sorry nope bro. Taffy is in the lightside of things in my books from what ive seen so far and so is ladd.

#1713: ladd laughs at an exchange between Visor and Kage

#1769: kage feels like someone who is gonna die to the villagers regardless of alignment best i got is that he is not w/w with boq (probably)

#1771: reskimming monty iso mega quick i could also see him being a wolf
kinda weird him/kage have got so little heat considering they'd be the 2 easiest target (no offense
i liked a couple of minor points from monty but really nothing i care to hang onto when there is so many villagery people

MONTY

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

#1006: Reads: Ladd & dyachei have rolled mafia in Org games I've - many of us have - played in. I don't remember any meta. Null.

#1161: Monty pushback on Ender looks good while Ender looks bad.

#1164: While shading Ender he ups Ender's read that "For Monty I think the piggyback and the response is broadly a towny response."

#1192: ladd asks about Monty D1 reads (I respond in #1875).

#1553: Dismissing Ender's SR of me: monty is a wolf cause they are low impact? cmn really lol [...] again this feels too level 0

#1561: Ladd as part of reads post, asking Visor about Orgahs: monty also seems more villagery than not

#1579: From large reads post: upper PoE (mostly villa leans that i don't feel strong enough about)
monty - dunno maybe he should be the tier below but i bought some of his d1 posts (the yolo team guess, the pushback on ender). if ender is a wolf i think he looks ok

#1771: reskimming monty iso mega quick i could also see him being a wolf
kinda weird him/kage have got so little heat considering they'd be the 2 easiest target (no offense
i liked a couple of minor points from monty but really nothing i care to hang onto when there is so many villagery people

#1875: I tell ladd that my D1 pings (Amp-Logic-Ender-Visor plus one secret sauce) were vibes-based. I answer Boq's question to ladd in #1804 with "Lots. Wagonomics. D2 interactions."

#2072: I appeal to dya and ladd to wagon Ender with me SOD3. Ladd's first post of the day, and his last action, is to comply, without acknowledging my post.

RENATA

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

#1166: Renata tells ladd how to clear multiquotes.

#1553: Ender criticizes Renata for a post with "Limited town reads, wide scumpool." Ladd's response to this: renata is wolfy cause of too many wolfreads...when thats village indicative if anything ime

#1561: Ladd as part of reads post, asking Visor about Orgahs: renata/csargo both seem v villagery

#1579: From large reads post: villagers
renata - never played with them but they post extremely sharp and very direct. not trying to appease at all and notices/pushes things wolves don't imo

#1601: Renata disagrees with ladd about how to think of Pizza's desperado targeting, certitude that it wasn't Ender. In #1604 ladd tells Renata that his reads on Vulgard and Ender are independent of that. Renata in #1609: It sucks because my reads at the time I left last night were the same, but I can?t just ignore the posts that Ender pointed out. I can?t see Pizza being that irresponsible. If he was, fuck that I?m blaming him.

#1736: In response to Renata suggesting that Visor and dya commenting on Taffy is partners ginning up a counterwagon to Visor: villagery post (but i disagree on dya, they look villagery in the exchange imo)

#1745: Defends #1736 to Visor because "it's an hard post to make."

#1769: renata you seems to have more experience with them than me and i have no clue what their wolf range is but if a random player was posting like they are this game i'd easily call them a villager and call it a day

#1775: Renata agrees with #1771 (see Monty/Kage sections).

#1830: Responding to Taffy about #1771: They're both kind of coasting. GTH I go with Monty as wolf over Kage, half because Kage feels so artless in his lack of engagement and half because Visor likes Kage less.

#1977: Renata reads post: Ladd, I don't know. I tend to like their posting when I read it (aside from the initial vote on Logic from day one) and then I get a little distance and don't like it as much. Nothing consolidated, not going to try today.

TAFFY

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

#907 Taffy's reads wall: Ladd: I thought your post with the quotes from Logic was awful until someone called it a joke. I'm pretty sure you haven't done anything that would let me read you yet.

#1193: ladd's reads: my strongest villa reads are cape/vulgard then pizza/taffy (idk if i mentioned them but i really liked a string of posts they had on..some page. it was v genuine imo)

#1299: Taffy willing to sheep ATPG and Vulgard on positive read of ladd. Also willing to sheep "Montmorencey, Kagemusha, Boquise and Ladd. Given a green check I'd also definitely sheep Ender."

#1579: From large reads post: villagers
taffy - genuinely lack clear for their d2 posting and post 1375 is just never from a wolf

#1606/19: Taffy and ladd discuss desperado OMG I AM DONE FINALLY

#1719 ladd defends taffy from Visor SR: this seems completely opposite to how they seem to be posting afaict they have plenty of attitude/sassiness

#1723: Defending taffy from Visor's vote: and even besides that taffy is the villageriest player itg IMO i can villa case them if needed but they'd be my 1 do not ever kill

#1778: Taffy asks if Renata agrees with #1771 (see Renata/Kage/Monty sections)

#1830: Responding to Taffy about #1771: They're both kind of coasting. GTH I go with Monty as wolf over Kage, half because Kage feels so artless in his lack of engagement and half because Visor likes Kage less.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

VULGARD

mEH

ENDER

#730s: Disagrees with Ender's Logic read: "I dont think thats what logic did?"

#977: Reads: Kage/Ladd/Dyachei are the grouping I don't really have a read on properly rn.

#1038: Reads: Csargo is an ehehhh with Dya/ladd/Kage just above.

#1168: Ender scummy for not wanting to fight with Pizza. Just look in the general vicinity of this post for other attacks on Ender by ladd.

.....

#1719: are you clearing ender just cause maybe he got shot?

#1739: Insisting on the Ender case to Visor

#1785: Ladd calling out Visor's posts as wolfy but continuing to vote me is an interesting mood

#1809: Ladd is wolf and I think with Visor based on how neither wants Visir to flip. Or is that prefliopy ego talking? Idk

Commentary (D1): Ladd's first post is #364, hard-suss on "obv wolf" Logic with a vote. Vulgard fills out the page with concerns about this entry. Logic wagon is very dominant now with 4 votes, Visor is pleased, Ladd builds the case and expresses Cape as "one of my few villagers." Vulgard calls this PIS/TMI. Almost all early ladd interactions are with Visor and/or fluff. Amy remarks that she doesn't need to contribute now that ladd is voting with her on Logic. Cape finds ladd's pop-in to be scummy.

Spooge being overpowered in extensive discussion with Vulgard:





Ladd has almost no thread-presence D1 due to time issues. He returns near EOD to tell us that he now suspects Ender more than Visor, for Pizza-interaction reasons (and votes there). He is essentially starting the Ender wagon from scratch, and speaks out against Logic and Visor wagons with basically neutral or mixed reads.

Amy #745: uhhh cape and vulgard are probably my strongest townreads. visor and hk maybe a tier below, both mostly off vibes. dya i don't want to kill before i can get a solid read on them, ladd/pizza i kinda just don't want to kill d1 in general

During EOD neither Visor nor Logic find anything to hold against ladd, though spooge votes ladd. Congratulations again to Cape, Vulgard, and Spooge for seeing through him D1 despite minimal thread presence.


Commentary (D2): I deprioritize recording ladd assoc with dead/clear players for D2 at some point.



kappa

Cape #984: Most interested in voting Kage/ladd/Monty

Vulgard #1011: ladd is probably town for his play on d1 being very idgaf yet wagon switching from Logic when I think he could've reasonably stuck there.

[Just an editorial, but I think high-tier mafia often make such switches between townie wagons on D1 because there are no stakes for them, while potentially creating the illusion of stakes, as well as setting up future antispew]

Pizza #1054: Case for why the NK is not ladd's work.

Ladd gets active again from the #1160s onward. He quickly publishes a number of reactions/reads, starting with reaffirmation of his t-Cape read ("villagery reaction to pizza weird early posting") and ending with more ender push. Lot of focus on people's interactions with Pizza.

#1174 ladd approves of Pizza's scumleans (Vulgard/Spooge/Amp/Ender), starts to find Pizza towny. However, also starts to TL Vulgard for Pizza interactions and other.

#1193 ladd summary hard to categorize:



Pizza #1489: Pizza's death-leans have ladd at the bottom.

Ender reads #1506: I want to wolfread them for their treatment of me but I know that's OMGUS so I'm reserving this slot until I have someone else read them for me.

#1579 is ladd's final full reads post. I distribute contents among the sections above.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Xposting with ladd's wall of reads is excellent.

In the #1600s Visor cases Ladd, as well as Taffy, dya, and HK. See character logs at the top - interesting that at the same time, Kage and dya - in response to Visor - had the same low-detail TLs on ladd and taffy.

#1719 is a very important ladd post defending taffy/hollow/dya from Visor (I've quoted it previously).

ladd interacts with Visor quite a lot throughout D2, esp. late day, esp. about Ender.



ladd D2 scumleans hard to categorize #1756

Cape struggles with his scumlean on ladd throughout the day.

Random observation: ladd interacts most heavily with people he scumreads or is voting, or top thread suspects.

brief skim says Monty = town. caveat is that if nobody does "work" a wolf can do "work" and look really really good. I don't think that's going on here.

[Raskolnikov]

Dya (4): Vulgard, Renata, Taffy, HK
Taffy (3): Monty, Csargo, Ender
Kage (1): Amy
HK (1): Kagemusha

EOD in one hour