Casual december game

[hollowkatt]

Are you sure you aren't performing an ironic bit that subtly inverts the characterization of Boq-HK interactions in projection onto Mont-HK?



HK-Boq either m/m or t/t, so if not m-Boq then ignore HK and focus on Ender. Renata declines because she is confident that you can be treated sequentially, maybe not believing in the parallelism.

I'm not smart enough to perform bits, but thank you

anyways, the way you presented it didn't read as if you were saying "HK and Boq are always the same alignment". You presented it as "if HK is a wolf it is with Boq" which is why I got hung up on it.
If you could clear that up I'd be appreciative.

[Csargo]

[Montmorency]

I will not be allowed to desperado Ender.

I'm not smart enough to perform bits, but thank you

anyways, the way you presented it didn't read as if you were saying "HK and Boq are always the same alignment". You presented it as "if HK is a wolf it is with Boq" which is why I got hung up on it.
If you could clear that up I'd be appreciative.

"if HK is a wolf it is with Boq" is a corrolary of "HK and Boq are always the same alignment." They're not inconsistent, and neither assertion implies that one or more of HK or Boq IS mafia.

Why are you doing that in the middle of our exchange? Is it a message? Is it equivalent to

[Csargo]

I will not be allowed to desperado Ender.



"if HK is a wolf it is with Boq" is a corrolary of "HK and Boq are always the same alignment." They're not inconsistent, and neither assertion implies that one or more of HK or Boq IS mafia.



Why are you doing that in the middle of our exchange? Is it a message? Is it equivalent to

It was to the final fantasy post.

[Montmorency]

It was to the final fantasy post.

[hollowkatt]

update: the man has gone to bed. unfortunately I am getting tired and I'm also preparing tomorrows bread for baking. FML

[hollowkatt]

I will not be allowed to desperado Ender.



"if HK is a wolf it is with Boq" is a corrolary of "HK and Boq are always the same alignment." They're not inconsistent, and neither assertion implies that one or more of HK or Boq IS mafia.



Why are you doing that in the middle of our exchange? Is it a message? Is it equivalent to

sure, corollary makes some amount of sense, but the optics of which is was presented heavily intimates wolf, not "paired alignment"

[Csargo]

Ender

If you are town

I want you to yeet Visorslash today.

Vote: Visorslash

Do you say 'If you are town' when you're gonna blow up ender?

Do you say ' i'm kill ender after I kill vulgard' if you're gonna blow up ender?

Feel like the context clues point to vulgard being the target.

[Csargo]

Too bad that's useless I guess.

[Montmorency]

No more Pizzagesis. I'm interpreting his death as a WOG.

Sirs.

[ladd]

sup, got my boxing match today (which is also the reason i have been afk-ish until now) so i won't be here at all

i'll be back monday and i should have more time from monday on

vote: ender

[ladd]

i could write a poem about why ender and amy are wolves and wolves together

maybe i will

[hollowkatt]

i could write a poem about why ender and amy are wolves and wolves together

maybe i will

ender and amy sitting in a tree
w
o
l
f
i
n
g
first comes chops
then comes kills
then comes the wolf team with the lulzy thrills

[Csargo]

Renata's kinda defensive about Ender flipping woof:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

If Ender turns up wolf ever this EoD going to be fun.

Doesn't mention Ampharos.

It is fake?

Ok, if Ender is mafia then Visor is the save. It's not me and I don't think it's Cape.

Tring Boq, Cape, Taffy not really explained

wooflean to townlean on vulgard no idea why. I didn't see any reason to change that read in their iso given how much time seemingly went into arguing the opposite.

Case on hk, and woof lean on ender all make sense to me. Arguments about visor were valid imo.

Feels like Renata kinda just wants to keep ender around while woof leaning them the whole time tbh. tonal stuff d1 to vote logic iirc and atpg fiasco d2 to say maybe cleared(?) I assume.

Switched off hk to try and protect Ender for some reason?

I know Ender effectively has one more vote on him from Hollowkatt (coming from offwagon).

vote: Visor

Talked about moving to hk and people not wanting to go there.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Visor (6): Ender, Taffy, Renata, Csargo, HK, Boq
HK (4): Kagemusha, dya, Cape, Visor
Ender (3): Ladd, Vulgard, Monty
Vulgard (1): Amy

EOD in 15 minutes

Visor (6): Ender, Taffy, Renata, Csargo, HK, Boq
Ender (4): Ladd, Vulgard, Monty, Visor
HK (3): Kagemusha, dya, Cape
Vulgard (1): Amy

HK was a valid option imo.

Reads being all over the place is kinda whatever to me, it happens. Proclaiming to want one thing then doing another is just weird. When the votes were tied Renata moved from HK to Visor, and then later lamented how nobody wanted to yeet HK, while it clearly was a possibility.

Woof reads were fine, town reads were lacking in their iso, at least in the why a lot. Treatment of ender really weird and EoD2 odd, posting generally fine imo, maybe a lot of pointless questions? Hard to tell tbh.

Vote:Renata

[Raskolnikov]

Ender (2): Monty, ladd
Monty(1): HK
HK (1): Renata
Renata (1) : Csargo

[Renata]

I’ll respond to you more thoroughly when I’m on computer Csargo but if Ender winds up being lynched and is a wolf this post of yours is hella TMI. It makes no sense to go after me for not wanting to lynch him if he’s town, and you should not know that he isn’t.

[Renata]

Like, this is the kind of case you make on somebody after a scum flip happens, not while the suspect is still alive. What is in this post to justify this vote aside from ?weird about Ender?? She doesn?t focus on her town reads very much and she changes her mind a lot? That?s not a wolf read.

[Renata]

Renata's kinda defensive about Ender flipping woof:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Doesn't mention Ampharos.

The first comment was popcorn.gif; the second was Visor related I think.

Ampharos wasn't relevant at the point I made that first comment. I was referring both times to the three last votes on Logic from Visor, me and Cape that put Logic as the lynch ahead of Ender. I think Ampharos by the time this happened was down to two votes and not in danger.

Tring Boq, Cape, Taffy not really explained

wooflean to townlean on vulgard no idea why. I didn't see any reason to change that read in their iso given how much time seemingly went into arguing the opposite.[/quote]

This is accurate, but is it scummy? Let's be real here, you're trying to characterize that giving no reason for a changed town-read on someone you (Csargo) are heavily implying to actually be town (since Ender in the above argument is scum and *somebody* got shot by Pizza yesterday) is scum motivated. It just isn't. This whole comment from here onward is you calling me "weird" (TM), often literally. Pizza would fucking shish-kebab you for this post.

My opinion on Vulgard changed throughout the course of the last day. He had several posts that dropped the hedgy wording and looked focused and interested and just real. I never got a chance to bring it up before real life intervened, and when I got back, the whole Pizza fiasco had happened and I lacked both time and motivation for putting together an iso to show why. So I just mentioned my switch on Vulgard in passing.

I'm never going to apologize or explain away a focus on scum reads over town ones overall. I know it's not the meta, and I know it makes for an easy push on someone in some context. I'm still not going to change until and unless I become comfortable with it again.

It is not scummy to focus on the scum.

Case on hk, and woof lean on ender all make sense to me. Arguments about visor were valid imo.

My arguments on Visor were hot trash. It was 90% tone read, strong-wolf paranoia, and Pizza sheepage, with just enough meat around the edges to hold it all together. The other two are not trash.

Feels like Renata kinda just wants to keep ender around while woof leaning them the whole time tbh. tonal stuff d1 to vote logic iirc and atpg fiasco d2 to say maybe cleared(?) I assume.

Switched off hk to try and protect Ender for some reason?

"For some reason", seriously Csargo. You're looking at my iso as you're writing this, it can't be that difficult to figure out what was going on in my head. I am certain I put in writing multiple times at various points about how I was conflicted about whether or not Ender actually was cleared by Pizza. I switched opinions at least twice, and at the end of the day was in the mindset that I didn't want to take the chance of making a compete fool of myself by lynching him if he was cleared town and I was just too stubborn about my own reads to acknowledge it.

Again here you are kind of TMI-ing Ender-wolf when if you are really reading my "weirdness" as scum-motivated, you should be giving at least a little thought to the idea that I might have been motivated by fear of pushing a lynch of a cleared townie.

Talked about moving to hk and people not wanting to go there.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

HK was a valid option imo.

I was in a world where I'm seeing both Hollowkatt and Visor as scum, and treating Ender as not. Both of them had voted Ender at one point to self-pres, and I figured I could assume they would both go back on that bandwagon again if they needed to. This is why I originally switched to Visor from Hollowkatt. I wanted to put some distance between Ender's vote count and the two of them, and since I was already on Hollowkatt, the only way I could do that was by switching. If this was MU with automatic vote counts and easy refreshing of the page, I would have switched back to Hollowkatt and then gone back to Visor at the last second if it looked like they were trying to save each other by piling on Ender again. Since it's the org instead, I wasn't willing to risk getting sniped without noticing. When Cape voted on Hollowkatt, my mental accounting had it as needing one more reliable (meaning not Visor) vote on Hollowkatt for it to be worth it for me to switch. That last vote never came, so I stayed on Visor.

If Ender is a wolf, going after me for yesterday's voting is 100% valid, because I did act to save him, and openly and transparently so. Doing so now, when he can still be town, and that's the only real reason in this entire post that you have for voting me? Nope.

Reads being all over the place is kinda whatever to me, it happens. Proclaiming to want one thing then doing another is just weird. When the votes were tied Renata moved from HK to Visor, and then later lamented how nobody wanted to yeet HK, while it clearly was a possibility.

As mentioned above, it wasn't. I needed one more vote. I probably should have just asked for it.

Woof reads were fine, town reads were lacking in their iso, at least in the why a lot. Treatment of ender really weird and EoD2 odd, posting generally fine imo, maybe a lot of pointless questions? Hard to tell tbh.

Vote:Renata

(Bolded in that last bit is mine.)

I don't know, maybe you are just puzzled by me, but we have here a post that is half trying to turn "she's weird and I don't get her" into a scum read and half "she was obviously trying to protect wolf-Ender (who hasn't actually flipped wolf)" and I am having trouble believing that it's real.

Right back at you buddy. vote: Csargo

[Renata]

There's a broken quote in the last post. The line "wooflean to townlean on Vulgard no idea why" is from Csargo.

[Kagemusha]

People switching to Visor late at the last phase would be good to look into before not too long. Hollowkatt is still the best lynch in my books and should have been lynched already yesterday Vote: Hollowkatt

[Renata]

If one more person had switched to the wagon he would have been.

[Renata]

Did you vote for him, Kage? (yesterday)

[Kagemusha]

I voted Hollowkatt and sticked with it. Visor was in the gray area in my books, while most of the last day phase he seemed mighty scummy with all that flip flopping.

[Renata]

Hopefully Hollowkatt is just right.

[EnderWiggin]

Do you say 'If you are town' when you're gonna blow up ender?

Do you say ' i'm kill ender after I kill vulgard' if you're gonna blow up ender?

Feel like the context clues point to vulgard being the target.

"If you're town" suggests he shot me.

Because if I'm not town I'm dead.

But if I am town he's dead and he wants me to carry his torch.

[EnderWiggin]

If I'm not wrong on Renata then I agree that Csargo post looks sus.

[Vulgard]

Okay, that's enough of that.

Hardclaiming Town Desperado. ATPG's role was a 1-shot desperado that gives its role to its target if the target is town. I was the target, so I now have the role - and I also have a shot, because it refreshes. I am going to flip vanilla town if I hit town, and the town that I hit will get another desperado shot, but will only be able to use it tomorrow.

Phew. That was a mouthful.

I severely doubted Ender yesterday for trying to clear himself from ATPG's shot because I had TMI on him not getting hit. It was me that was the target, so him trying so hard to get himself cleared felt like he didn't know how ATPG's role worked and was trying to take advantage of the lack of information to make himself look better. I was sideeyeing that the whole time, and I really would've preferred him to have been yeeted yesterday, not Visor. I think I even said as much in my legacy post from yesterday, but whatever.

Now I have a desperado shot, and before you say anything, I already know who I am punting it into. I am punting it into ladd. The reasoning is twofold: Visor said that ladd was snowing us, and a town!ladd getting shot makes him an IC, which I believe we need and which I believe he can turn into something beneficial for town. I would've shot Visor today had he not been yeeted yesterday, to the same effect. Also, remember that the town I shoot gets the desperado role and can fire a shot on the next day, so even if I misfire by shooting ladd, he can still take someone out - or make someone an IC - tomorrow.

I currently believe that ladd will flip mafia, in which case I will not die, but i will also lose my desperado and no one else will be able to become a desperado. But that's also fine. We need a wolf flip.

"Why not shoot Ender?"

I don't want to shoot Ender because I believe that Visor might've been right. He might've been right in that we are getting collectively snowed, and in such a world, Ender is likely to be a villager, as he's been wagoned for two consecutive days. However, if ladd is town, I believe you should kill Ender, because ladd being town makes the "we have been snowed" world less likely - Visor specifically pinpointed ladd as snowing us. If ladd is mafia, we will figure things out from there, as I will be alive.

I have alluded to wolves probably not having a role that can prevent me from confirming myself. Now I can reveal that this role would've been a mafia vanillarizer. Nothing else can affect this role at night, outside of outright death. I haven't been told that I don't have the shot, so I believe I should still have it.

/shoot ladd

This is unnecessary, but I just want to make it perfectly clear who I'm shooting. You know, after... yesterday.

Visor threw suspicion on Csargo, Kagemusha, Amy, and ladd as he died. He also did want to kill Ender, which I believe you should finally do if ladd is town.

Glgl. If ladd is mafia, I'll obviously continue posting, as I will be clear. If ladd is town, I die and flip vanilla town, while ladd inherits my desperado role, gets a shot tomorrow, and is also clear. Do not tinfoil my target if I flip vanilla town.

[Renata]

If I'm not wrong on Renata then I agree that Csargo post looks sus.

This is easy to say. Why.

[Renata]

Okay, that's enough of that.

Hardclaiming Town Desperado. ATPG's role was a 1-shot desperado that gives its role to its target if the target is town. I was the target, so I now have the role - and I also have a shot, because it refreshes. I am going to flip vanilla town if I hit town, and the town that I hit will get another desperado shot, but will only be able to use it tomorrow.

Phew. That was a mouthful.

I severely doubted Ender yesterday for trying to clear himself from ATPG's shot because I had TMI on him not getting hit. It was me that was the target, so him trying so hard to get himself cleared felt like he didn't know how ATPG's role worked and was trying to take advantage of the lack of information to make himself look better. I was sideeyeing that the whole time, and I really would've preferred him to have been yeeted yesterday, not Visor. I think I even said as much in my legacy post from yesterday, but whatever.

Now I have a desperado shot, and before you say anything, I already know who I am punting it into. I am punting it into ladd. The reasoning is twofold: Visor said that ladd was snowing us, and a town!ladd getting shot makes him an IC, which I believe we need and which I believe he can turn into something beneficial for town. I would've shot Visor today had he not been yeeted yesterday, to the same effect. Also, remember that the town I shoot gets the desperado role and can fire a shot on the next day, so even if I misfire by shooting ladd, he can still take someone out - or make someone an IC - tomorrow.

I currently believe that ladd will flip mafia, in which case I will not die, but i will also lose my desperado and no one else will be able to become a desperado. But that's also fine. We need a wolf flip.

"Why not shoot Ender?"

I don't want to shoot Ender because I believe that Visor might've been right. He might've been right in that we are getting collectively snowed, and in such a world, Ender is likely to be a villager, as he's been wagoned for two consecutive days. However, if ladd is town, I believe you should kill Ender, because ladd being town makes the "we have been snowed" world less likely - Visor specifically pinpointed ladd as snowing us. If ladd is mafia, we will figure things out from there, as I will be alive.

I have alluded to wolves probably not having a role that can prevent me from confirming myself. Now I can reveal that this role would've been a mafia vanillarizer. Nothing else can affect this role at night, outside of outright death. I haven't been told that I don't have the shot, so I believe I should still have it.

/shoot ladd

This is unnecessary, but I just want to make it perfectly clear who I'm shooting. You know, after... yesterday.

Visor threw suspicion on Csargo, Kagemusha, Amy, and ladd as he died. He also did want to kill Ender, which I believe you should finally do if ladd is town.

Glgl. If ladd is mafia, I'll obviously continue posting, as I will be clear. If ladd is town, I die and flip vanilla town, while ladd inherits my desperado role, gets a shot tomorrow, and is also clear. Do not tinfoil my target if I flip vanilla town.

Thank god.

I want to point out one thing that you may or may not already have realized. If you say who you targeted, now that the mechanism of the shot is known, that person (if town) could be nightkilled. I don't know what happens to the desperado shot then. But this may be why Pizza didn't say it clearly.

[EnderWiggin]

This is easy to say. Why.

Something something positioning and things you already said.

I say easy things because I believe em.