13er summer game thread

[nebjiamn]

dya what are your thoughts on ender?

[nebjiamn]

like i know you said his vote on you doens't mean anything for his alignment but what about the rest of his (and i guess visor's since you said the same there) posts in general

[Raskolnikov]

Visor(1): Cape
Cape(2): ladd, insomnia
Katze (3): cuth, Winston, ender
Achro(3): Visor, Taffy, katze
Taffy(2): benneh, SK
Sk(1): achro

Not voting (1): Dyachei

Still posting from phone, sorry for the formatting.

[dyachei]

dya what are your thoughts on ender?

i dont really know how to read ender in early game. I read him later based on accuracy and cases

visor appears to be visoring. am kind of annoyed he didnt even like...try to chat with me first. I feel like v! visor would be more likely to. But it's a 50 post cap game so idk

[dyachei]

vote: cape

[Raskolnikov]

Benneh gets a cookie for powerfull use of smileys

[Raskolnikov]

Visor(1): Cape
Cape(3): ladd, insomnia, Dyachei
Katze (3): cuth, Winston, ender
Achro(3): Visor, Taffy, katze
Taffy(2): benneh, SK
Sk(1): achro

Not voting (0):

[nebjiamn]

i dont really know how to read ender in early game. I read him later based on accuracy and cases

visor appears to be visoring. am kind of annoyed he didnt even like...try to chat with me first. I feel like v! visor would be more likely to. But it's a 50 post cap game so idk

hmm ok

ender's vibes feel a bit off to me. like he's here and memeing which is all good and fun but he's been a bit dismissive when asked for more in a way that felt more wolfy. his reads on SK and winston both felt a bit forced too.

not sure if it matters much today or not but eh

[insomnia]

turns out EoD timing is convenient for me

cya then

[Totally not Taffy]

I looked at the thread yesterday before going to bed, saw that I was 100 posts behind and decided to leave it till today to read up. I am now made of regret, but at least I have some time till EoD.

I was a wolf and swept a town that had 5 of these players in it.

Please point to the part where my world view is inconsistent.

"Inconsistent" is your word, not mine, but sure. So remember that fmpov you played last game just fine while posting close to the current postcap (which lifts an hour before EoD anyway, so you should be fine, really). Now look at these snippets from your first few posts this game.

Hello I don't know how to solve a game in 50 posts so I have decided to be an agent of (hopefully) town agenda chaos by suggesting we do this: pick a name. First come first serve, remove it from the list. Each user gets one. You cannot remove yourself. Last person is killed. We start day 2 with a day of social interactions. If this fails to kill a wolf I don't mind dying day 2 for suggesting this. Life is too short.

1. Visor
2. Totally not Taffy
3.Winston Hughes
4. Cuthillius
5. nebjiamn
6. SilverKeith
7. Cape90
9. EnderWiggin
10. ladd
11. insomnia
12. Achro
13. katze

I removed dya

Of course you need not rush your decision. Socialize a bit. When you feel good about a pick take them off.

I removed dya because I feel I have a way to read them accurately where as most of this list I don't have the faintest clue. Except perhaps sk but I can't keep living off years ago success forever.

Ah well in particular I am better when I have meta and practice with others or I think I have a strong feel for a person. Most of this list I don't play with too too often and is highly skilled. Perhaps it won't be rocket science though.

Most of all I think it's fun and a little intriguing. Mixes it up a bit. A truly chill experience.

Hmm, alright.

I'll sheep you day one then, boss.

Solve away.

You project a lot of insecurity, that I feel is unwarranted. Could be a wolf laying the groundworks for lacking in the solving department. Good enough for an early D1 vote imo, but let's see if the coming 200+ posts bring something meatier!

[Cuthillius]

Dyachei(2): katze, ender
Visor(1): Cape
Cape(1): ladd
Katze (2): insomnia, cuth
Achro(2): Visor, Taffy
Taffy(2): benneh, SK
Not voting (3): Dyachei, achro, Winston

Will be driving today. Should post more tallies close to EOD.

@Raskolnikov i was (and still am) voting visor

Anyway I think I like Visor's vote on me now when earlier I didn't. I 5hink he would be wary of just having a vote chill on a villager for most of the day and not care that I didn't like it as a wolf since he knows I can be prickly at times. Nothing too indicative or anything since he is just floating with it but maybe more town than scum.

respectfully, i don't think w!visor would be super worried about that, either from how it would look in retrospect or from you getting prickly

eh. i guess "threadspewed town" probably never applied to them. @Cuthillius i noticed you never rly commented on taffy during that period of posts, whys that?

there was nothing that felt significant to me really? i still don't have any opinion on taffy's posts

i also think i skimmed past the stuff and i mostly know about it from reading other people talk about it

i don't think casually digging through other people's past games right off the bat is a super ai thing on its own though

wolf rangevilla range

shitpost range

this post made me very happy

i feel like when cuth commented it wasn't very memorable and didn't really move the thread at all. That's why cuth

not for lack of trying! i legit made myself stop checking the thread as regularly yesterday because every time i tried to engage people they were just shutting down conversations and refusing to respond and the thread just didn't feel good and i felt like i would get snippy and passive aggressive if i was posting more

also meh

i kind of wonder if cape is slightly threadspewed town because almost no one is v reading him

i've been turning this thought around in my head for the last 24 hours or so

i'm surprised how much pressure has stayed on him throughout-- it's kinda normal to have this sort of dynamic, be it vs villager or wolf, especially in a game with this kind of playerlist (see c4 from that one game several of us played in last year), but idk

everything's felt excruciatingly stagnant and i don't think it's all because it's a post capped game and i haven't played mafia in ages and i'm currently starving for distraction from schoolwork lol

[dyachei]

@Raskolnikov i was (and still am) voting visor

respectfully, i don't think w!visor would be super worried about that, either from how it would look in retrospect or from you getting prickly

there was nothing that felt significant to me really? i still don't have any opinion on taffy's posts

i also think i skimmed past the stuff and i mostly know about it from reading other people talk about it

i don't think casually digging through other people's past games right off the bat is a super ai thing on its own though

this post made me very happy

not for lack of trying! i legit made myself stop checking the thread as regularly yesterday because every time i tried to engage people they were just shutting down conversations and refusing to respond and the thread just didn't feel good and i felt like i would get snippy and passive aggressive if i was posting more

also meh

i've been turning this thought around in my head for the last 24 hours or so

i'm surprised how much pressure has stayed on him throughout-- it's kinda normal to have this sort of dynamic, be it vs villager or wolf, especially in a game with this kind of playerlist (see c4 from that one game several of us played in last year), but idk

everything's felt excruciatingly stagnant and i don't think it's all because it's a post capped game and i haven't played mafia in ages and i'm currently starving for distraction from schoolwork lol

hi cuth!

I am happy to be playing with you again. Sorry I made you meh.

I do agree it's hard to engage people this game

[Cuthillius]

I don't know exactly.

But perhaps the contrast here of maliciously/innocently and scummy/townie could be an example.

The word choice is unconscious, I think, because you're too good to rely on conscious word choices - they slow you down, tend to look clunky, risk the encroachment of paranoia. And you're also really good at regulating your mood, so that your unconscious doesn't tend to spit out those more obvious errors or tells that people like me need to be careful of when wolfing. But, for all that, there still has to be an agenda at work - an implicit intention to reshape the gamestate in some way that benefits your goal.

The unconscious choice to frame the dichotomy as 'maliciously' vs 'innocently' poses the question ethically, as one of good against evil. It is a dramatic framing, implying a rhetorical purpose. If you were less regulated, I might think this had an emotional component - you being irritated at my suspicions - but I'm pretty sure that's not what's going on here. And, to be sure, there are townie reasons why those words might have come to mind.

But it's the second part that tweaks me. You've already asked the question, with its implicit rhetorical load. And there is no reason anyone should misunderstand the meaning. And yet your instinct tells you to restate it in what are, in mafia, the most value-neutral of terms. What you're doing here, it seems to me, is sanding the edge off.

this is a really funny post

it's not. wrong, or at least in principle it's a good analysis of how katze works and plays

it's just a wild post to make here

but i like the commitment and think it probably tends to tip in the v direction most of the time lol

I started that response sober...

that post almost made me turn to the bottle myself

i was kinda hoping winston would come in late and be wolfy cause it'd have made the game easier to sort but sadly he seems >rand v too (i wrote this before i saw his last post)

yo ladd buongiorno when you're back can you write me like a short paragraph of your impression of the current gamestate (since you already used the word)

because i have specific feelings about it but i haven't sat down and articulated them properly but i'd like to compare notes a bit

couple other questions

how confident are you on benneh atm

can you go into your dya read a bit more

and also talk about insomnia

tyty

hmm ok

ender's vibes feel a bit off to me. like he's here and memeing which is all good and fun but he's been a bit dismissive when asked for more in a way that felt more wolfy. his reads on SK and winston both felt a bit forced too.

not sure if it matters much today or not but eh

atm i want to shoot ender into the sun but also i don't see the upside of him playing like this as a wolf??

so idk i'm kinda circling back to villager

i do think his play has been pro-wolf though, but again this would be an insane way to approach d1 as a wolf in this sort of a list

[Totally not Taffy]

not for lack of trying! i legit made myself stop checking the thread as regularly yesterday because every time i tried to engage people they were just shutting down conversations and refusing to respond and the thread just didn't feel good and i felt like i would get snippy and passive aggressive if i was posting more

I do agree it's hard to engage people this game

Would you two prefer to chat rather than have me read up rn? Mind you I have very few opinions yet.

[nebjiamn]

atm i want to shoot ender into the sun but also i don't see the upside of him playing like this as a wolf??

so idk i'm kinda circling back to villager

i do think his play has been pro-wolf though, but again this would be an insane way to approach d1 as a wolf in this sort of a list

i have also considered this fwiw

also that this is pretty distinct from what i remember him doing as wolf in a similar list here on the org last year. which isn't to say he can't have that range but just something i've picked up on and noted

but if we're wrong on cape and/or taffy he'd be my next best guess aorn and i felt like no one was really talking about him.

speaking of that taffy post feels decent and looking forward to see what else they post

[Cuthillius]

hi cuth!

I am happy to be playing with you again. Sorry I made you meh.

I do agree it's hard to engage people this game

<3 <3

thank you for this post!

and no worries

glad you're playing too and good to see you around in general!

i guess it feels like it's already somewhat in the general vibe where a lot of these "stacked" playerlists end up where d1 is just everyone standing around being like idk a lot of people are either villagery or i don't super wanna vote them so maybe we'll just have a few little spats and otherwise try to pretend we're not gonna vote one of the less experienced players at eod

which is i think broadly okay and to be expected to some extent

but on top of that when some of the people who like are in the poe and could be sorted are just refusing to elaborate or talk through their thoughts it's frustrating

[dyachei]

Would you two prefer to chat rather than have me read up rn? Mind you I have very few opinions yet.

why dont we start with what reads you do have and why?

[Cuthillius]

why dont we start with what reads you do have and why?

@Cuthillius thanks this post.

[Totally not Taffy]

why dont we start with what reads you do have and why?

Ladd would be my strongest townread atm. Ender, Cape and Katze very lightly.

Nothing really pinged me in the first 100 posts outside of Achro, especially since I've now reached his post where he suspects Ladd for downplaying his abilities when that's exactly what he's doing himself.

[Totally not Taffy]

i guess it feels like it's already somewhat in the general vibe where a lot of these "stacked" playerlists end up where d1 is just everyone standing around being like idk a lot of people are either villagery or i don't super wanna vote them so maybe we'll just have a few little spats and otherwise try to pretend we're not gonna vote one of the less experienced players at eod

which is i think broadly okay and to be expected to some extent

I disagree btw, first of all it makes no logical sense to me that you'd start by sifting through the players you know the least and secondly it makes for a very unwelcoming experience for newer players.

[Cuthillius]

I disagree btw, first of all it makes no logical sense to me that you'd start by sifting through the players you know the least and secondly it makes for a very unwelcoming experience for newer players.

i think a lot of the players i know the best i've known for long enough to know that in most circumstances they're not going to be obviously villagery or wolfy right off the bat, while that isn't necessarily the case for the people i know less well (though it could be)

it's not like i'm not trying to sort other people or avoiding asking the people i know questions

and also it's not even a thing of people i know well or don't-- as you probably know, ender is from GitP and we've technically been playing together for like 10 years, but i still think it's easier to sort him than, say, katze or ladd

but i think i do agree with you to some extent in that i don't think it's the funnest way to play, and isn't nice when you're one of the consensus poe people just because you're not one of the big scary veterans, but like unless unexpected things happen this is just how these sorts of games tend to start, because it rarely makes sense to roll the dice super hard off the bat and that can put the game off on a really wrong foot if done badly

idk if the above words make sense

but i guess my point is that when i say broadly okay i don't mean strictly ideal i just mean it happens and it happens for reasons and idk

[Cuthillius]

Ladd would be my strongest townread atm. Ender, Cape and Katze very lightly.

Nothing really pinged me in the first 100 posts outside of Achro, especially since I've now reached his post where he suspects Ladd for downplaying his abilities when that's exactly what he's doing himself.

to follow up on what dya said, could you go into a bit more reasoning on why you have the first four reads?

and if you've not been able to catch up to a place where you can explain/justify reads beyond gut feel, then I'd appreciate your doing so before having these interactions

[dyachei]

Ladd would be my strongest townread atm. Ender, Cape and Katze very lightly.

Nothing really pinged me in the first 100 posts outside of Achro, especially since I've now reached his post where he suspects Ladd for downplaying his abilities when that's exactly what he's doing himself.

what pinged you specifically about achro

[Cuthillius]

i don't think that achro's been wildly villagery, but i think they've been villagery enough that i'm definitely not interested in going there today and feel fine about being able to figure them out down the road if need be

[Totally not Taffy]

i think a lot of the players i know the best i've known for long enough to know that in most circumstances they're not going to be obviously villagery or wolfy right off the bat, while that isn't necessarily the case for the people i know less well (though it could be)

it's not like i'm not trying to sort other people or avoiding asking the people i know questions

and also it's not even a thing of people i know well or don't-- as you probably know, ender is from GitP and we've technically been playing together for like 10 years, but i still think it's easier to sort him than, say, katze or ladd

but i think i do agree with you to some extent in that i don't think it's the funnest way to play, and isn't nice when you're one of the consensus poe people just because you're not one of the big scary veterans, but like unless unexpected things happen this is just how these sorts of games tend to start, because it rarely makes sense to roll the dice super hard off the bat and that can put the game off on a really wrong foot if done badly

idk if the above words make sense

but i guess my point is that when i say broadly okay i don't mean strictly ideal i just mean it happens and it happens for reasons and idk

For me it's more repeated experiences of people saying "I know this person well, I'll find them in FX" and then getting snowed in said FX while the newer players that sussed the wolf are dead. But eh.

[dyachei]

For me it's more repeated experiences of people saying "I know this person well, I'll find them in FX" and then getting snowed in said FX while the newer players that sussed the wolf are dead. But eh.

Im definitely not doing that fwiw. Benneh is probably one of my favorite people to play with and I outed a wolf read on him d1 lol

so lets talk about other things

[dyachei]

i don't think that achro's been wildly villagery, but i think they've been villagery enough that i'm definitely not interested in going there today and feel fine about being able to figure them out down the road if need be

this is basically how i feel about achro

[Totally not Taffy]

to follow up on what dya said, could you go into a bit more reasoning on why you have the first four reads?

and if you've not been able to catch up to a place where you can explain/justify reads beyond gut feel, then I'd appreciate your doing so before having these interactions

The way they're approaching the game, combined with how I've seen them play in the past, mostly.

what pinged you specifically about achro

Scroll up a bit, I replied to a post of his asking the same.

i don't think that achro's been wildly villagery, but i think they've been villagery enough that i'm definitely not interested in going there today and feel fine about being able to figure them out down the road if need be

Funny cross post is funny

[Cuthillius]

ok i'm closing the thread for a bit i can't

[nebjiamn]

Im definitely not doing that fwiw. Benneh is probably one of my favorite people to play with and I outed a wolf read on him d1 lol

so lets talk about other things

just probably?

vote: dya