13er summer game thread

[Cuthillius]

ok i'm here

[katze]

ok i'm here

no you're not

[SilverKeith]

I need a sanity check on Achro's turnaround from y'all

[katze]

I need a sanity check on Achro's turnaround from y'all

i typed out "for those watching at home asking yourselves if achro is going to get away with either bussing keith or saving benneh, the answer is yes" and then decided not to send it

23

[SilverKeith]

Honestly idk how to gauge in the paranoia argument. I'm half forced to gamble on my worldview being right because if two of (winston/achro/katze) are wolves then I kinda think it's just gg so I'm partially hoping it's only one and maybe it shows their hand here if they plan to win it here.

[katze]

i think if you look at those 3 specifically i could say there's some relatively strong unpairings between me and both of them, achro winston could work and i considered it a bit earlier cause of the "winston is claiming poisoner and is town!!!" thing when the poison landed on a PR claim and it wasn't reaalllllllly a claim was A Thing

(but it was definitely readable as a softclaim so i dont think its LOCK)

any thoughts on that?

24

[Cuthillius]

achro i don't want this to come across as dismissive since you wrote so many words and spent time building a Scenario

but i think it mostly comes down to how we play the game

i think basically the entire response to your question in short wrt benneh is that i haven't ever tried to kill him seriously because i haven't ever wanted to kill him seriously

and also as a corollary i haven't really seriously wanted to kill anyone except maybe like insomnia (at various points) and sk (as of like d2)

most of the time when i vote it's some combination of announcing that i suspect someone/testing the waters to see who agrees/seeing how people react to coming under fire/genuinely not knowing where to go because the game's an absolute mess (see yesterday)

the other thing is that i dropped the case on benneh/katze and then went and did other stuff for a while and came back and felt less strongly about it by the time i looked back over it the next morning

like legit benneh's reponse to my first push made me go back and read his posts again (i'd made the case after rereading all but the last like 30 minutes of eod1) and i felt a lot less strongly about it by that point

because there were things that stood out to me as feeling bad but in context of his progressions overall they weren't as bad as they'd seemed in my mind

and THEN there was eod

where i still think sk's posts were just garbage? i haven't reread them again but it felt like he was literally just taking an anti-town stance and then when i tried to engage with the reasoning (most notably with the visor claim) he just ignored it? wasn't even like i see what you mean but i disagree that it's that strong, just like no that makes no sense the claim means nothing

and benneh was sniping at me and pushing weirdly and that made me feel worse about him again but i still would never actually want to kill him over sk (again i will reread and flesh things out soon and maybe completely reevaluate who knows)

and then i just hated katze's eod, even before the visor snap at the end

and going into today i looked over benneh again and talked myself back into it esp given my feelings on katze but then katze claimed pr (which to be fair i think i maybe took more seriously than i should have specifically because it's katze but also it just seems good to take seriously i think idk i haven't had the bandwidth to worry about that too much though i will say it doesn't make things clearer to me that benneh immediately said he assumed it wasn't serious)

and then he responded again and i looked and now i actually think he's a villager again maybe tbh? but maybe not if sk is v? but i have a hard time seeing sk as ever being v here? so i'm like hmhh

and i really just need to reread and take things one slot at a time and sort stuff out

i think teambuilding is only helpful insofar as figuring out who can't be wolves together, but we'd be much better served here by just killing the person with the highest individual % of flipping w

and then doing the same thing tomorrow if it works

and so on

worldbuilding is fun but wolves know we're gonna be trying to fit pieces together and doing stuff to trick us into the wrong worlds

and all they need is one yeet here

so that's kinda where i'm at

oh the one other thing or maybe two i remember you bringing up that i wanted to mention

1) you were one of my top villagers d1 not because i thought you were super villagery-- in fact, in your post where you were talking about this you literally quoted my post from i think not that long before my readslist where i had you in the top tier saying that i thought you were fairly villagery, enough to never want to kill you today, but not lock; but like my reads were all over the place and i had really low confidence on any reads at that point in the game

2) kinda an extension of the above i was kinda worried about your slot as of eod yesterday before you posted more and bigger and stuff-- that was the point that actually solidified you as v in my head and before then i had been getting cold feet on you with the visor stuff

which might have contributed to me not engaging with you as much as would maybe have been good and helpful there wrt benneh sorry

[SilverKeith]

Another reason I think I'm mostly right in my worldview is because all my pushers have focused only on SK!Wolf and that's that.

But they haven't focused on teambuilding because that would imply dirtying their hands trying to argue in favor of Achro/Katze/Winston, which, ok, one of them could be a wolf, but trying to convince other people of that would get dirty. Or the alternative, pairing my with one of Cuth/Benneh/Insom, and (whoever is town there) discovering whoever is trying to pair me with them is full of bs, or just doing w/w theathrics.

So it's easier to say "SK WOLF" loudly.

Insom lylo so far has been
- Shade on Katze
- Shade on winston
- (No real exploration of either)
- some back and forth with some light reads
- thinking I'm a wolf.

Only comment I want to note is that he said that "if SK is town that might mean benneh/cuth wolves" which like. For a second. Insom, if you're town, and I'm town, that'd be the exact world we live in, and idk why then v!you would have such a hard time reconciliating that idea unless you were absolutely sure I'm a wolf, which you shouldn't be ever.

Benneh lylo so far:
- thinking i'm a wolf
-Some sus on insom sod (no exploration)
- some back and forth with some light reads (one with cuth where cuth accuses him of being w/w with me)
- some exploration on w!cuth

Both have also expressed they v!read achro. Benneh says that it's possible that's cuth/sk and one of winston katze which. Hm. Honestly I'd prolly have to see what Cuth has to say about this but it'll be pretty funny when he says to benneh that it's me/benneh or some shit while I'm just here, because apparently it doesn't really matter who I'm wolfing with only that I'm a wolf and thus must be lunched

Cuth e
- Also has achro as their top v! read which I'm not sure what it means currently. Maybe they're not focused on achro because he'll be a hard sell for a misslunch if he's v, but also because they don't want to get on his bad side and he isn't related to their gamble of losing or winning the game if they are wolves.
- Says it's possible I'm w/w with Benneh. I don't think this makes a lot of sense. Cuth has been suspecting both of us at some points so I'm unsure if his view is unrealistic even if it's wrong.
- there's a discussion on katze pr which I don't care about.
- All of them seem to argue that winston be a wolf and at this point I can prolly hear dvc being like "my dudes winston hasn't received heat the whole game and is in the exact spot of an unnoticed wolf" and yes I agree but no I don't know what the fuck to do about it and I was expecting my fellow townies to know but I don't know who my fellow townies are.
-thinkingt i'm a wolf.

Cuth has less content even tho I had more to say bc some of it are conclussions and I'm kinda expecting to see wtf he has to say re achro

[Cuthillius]

i was gonna keep posting but i need a brief nap first

katze what do you think of what benneh said wrt yesterday's wagons and sk's alignment

and of benneh's push on sk overall

and stuff

[SilverKeith]

i think if you look at those 3 specifically i could say there's some relatively strong unpairings between me and both of them, achro winston could work and i considered it a bit earlier cause of the "winston is claiming poisoner and is town!!!" thing when the poison landed on a PR claim and it wasn't reaalllllllly a claim was A Thing

(but it was definitely readable as a softclaim so i dont think its LOCK)

any thoughts on that?

24

This is like post 20.

I think you're unpaired with Achro. I don't agree that you're unpaired with Winston. I know he's pushing you but if that's not going anywhere then ehhh it doesn't mean a lot, or maybe it does but I don't think it's a lock unpairing.

I mean don't we just lose if it's that? Unless we hipotetically we get winston today maybe. But even then idk how tf ppl would reconcile both w!achro and v!sk. Unless the third is one of my pushers and I clear myself specifically here.

I'm not sure what to think about the claim and Achro's reaction. I saw it. I thought it was achro-like enough for not necesarily be AI. I should reread it, sure.

[Cuthillius]

sk one of my biggest issues with you yesterday was that it felt like you weren't even considering v!visor worlds at eod

could you talk more about how that situation played out for you and what progression you had on that read?

[SilverKeith]

where i still think sk's posts were just garbage? i haven't reread them again but it felt like he was literally just taking an anti-town stance and then when i tried to engage with the reasoning (most notably with the visor claim) he just ignored it? wasn't even like i see what you mean but i disagree that it's that strong, just like no that makes no sense the claim means nothing

I'm not sure why my stance was anti-town. I don't want to go into mech talk again (but will if you really want to).

Re:Visor, I did consider visor town, sort of, but for visor to be town he'd also have to /find me as town/ and then we'd have to consolidate on someone else. And then we did for a bit. On insom. And you were there. And I felt a bit sketchy on that. I think I was always voting Visor that eod unless we would've gone for insom or benneh but even then I think I was prolly voting visor over benneh.

I thought visor claim was bs to get himself out of the lunch for one day. In my head the following day there was only one death (mafia one), and no one would've died by a vig so we'd have lunched a villager (who would've very likely been me) to give w!visor another day after he claimed something that seemed a bit unlikely.

And if you wanna go into "why w!visor would claim he holstered" then idk. We've gone over this already and I don't think my points have essentially changed regardless if I fucked around arguing with you.

----------------------------

Another thing is that out of all three of my pushers, after exchanging some words with them, I think benneh's reasons resonated with me the most and Insom the less, having cuth sort of in the middle.

[katze]

i was gonna keep posting but i need a brief nap first

katze what do you think of what benneh said wrt yesterday's wagons and sk's alignment

and of benneh's push on sk overall

and stuff

wrt pr claim in ur rambly wall:im being vague because i dont want to talk about it and because ive played the role horribly, but you can probably guess what my role is if you think hard enuf it isnt that hard

wrt benneh: no thoughts head empty, unironically. theyre just words they didnt rly stick to me at all and i reread them and i still have no thoughts.


25ish

[Cuthillius]

nods

i wouldn't have poisoned ender there but i respect it

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

ik you're the backup vig it makes sense

[katze]

i mislunched visor so i could take a shat of my own and thats why dya died

the purrfect crime

26

[Cuthillius]

for the initial read it's mainly that i got town vibes from my iso yesterday

but more important now is this:



if achro is town, and sk is scum, then sk's buddies let him rand when they really didn't need to

i'm not gonna say lock town for this, but it's enough that i can't see myself chopping sk today

yo @Winston

you said above this that you were thinking katze was likely w

you think that sk is >>rand v because you don't think wolves would let w!sk rand over visor there-- why do you think it's unlikely that wolves wouldn't all want to be on visor over sk there, especially given how close the votes were?

also, where's your read at on sk's slot overall? the first time you mentioned him was at eod1 where you explicitly said that you didn't want to vote him, then next on d2 when you said that you had had some light v ping from him but couldn't remember what, and then you read and said that his progression was believable so he's slight v, and that's basically it going into today where you're claiming he's a strong v read based on wagons. what's your take on benneh's argument to the contrary? do you think they could be wolves together?

[Cuthillius]

sorry other winston

[insomnia]

thinking about it, he said that while katze, his only confident wolfread is literally voting to save sk in his world

matter of fact, katze had a terrible progression too

so it's kinda weird how he thinks that since fhpov the wolf was saving sk

[insomnia]

thinking about it, he said that while katze, his only confident wolfread is literally voting to save sk in his world

matter of fact, katze had a terrible progression too

so it's kinda weird how he thinks that since fhpov the wolf was saving sk

@Winston Hughes

can you explain this? am i wrong etc

[insomnia]

idk, if sk is v then i guess the world is

cuth / benneh / winston

just thinking cuth is a villa though.

[Cuthillius]

idk, if sk is v then i guess the world is

cuth / benneh / winston

just thinking cuth is a villa though.

i've been reading sk's eod1 posts and if y'all are v/v we're insert expletive here imo

[insomnia]

ironically im getting worried he might be v due to winston's read on him and me feeling like winston is the wolf that skated

[Cuthillius]

also i just checked and literally everyone who ended the day on sk had him as a top wolf the entire phase

if he's w there's absolutely no shot there's not at least one other wolf on visor

[Cuthillius]

ironically im getting worried he might be v due to winston's read on him and me feeling like winston is the wolf that skated

really? do you think winston's interactions are too softball/nondistance-y for them to be partners? because it definitely feels plausible to me

[insomnia]

nah actually i was reading back and some of his latest posts are pretty elite if wolf

particularly him bluntly saying you drop for him while i rise despite me calling you a villager feels genuine to me for some reason, like he doesn't care about positioning at all

and then the "wait why are you voting so early" would be an elite level post to make if he's w and sk is v, since sk stated he was gonna vote me anyway, so that's wraps from him as a wolf, which they would've wanted here ldo

[insomnia]

hopefully tomorrow i’ll do isos on everyone and finally think critically once in this game

knowing me idk if it’ll happen but it’s my intention at least

[Cuthillius]

ok so i wanna talk about sk's read evolution on visor

sk talked about visor three times d1, 1) to say he didn't remember anything he'd said which he felt was a slight w lean, 2) to say he didn't want to go there d1, 3) to say that a post about achro was a bit villagery

then we get to d2, where sk votes visor because ladd's legacy reads were ender/sk/visor as top wolves, and i'm spoilering the following progression:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Ok sure

Vote:Visor

The Visor part is a bit w/e and I can't currently comment on it bc I don't have a grasp on visor this game, which prolly is a problem in itself and wolf!indicative towards visor.

I'm not sure if I actively think visor is a wolf after reading him a bit and I'm bothered bc I think we should realtime but idk if that's possible.

I think he's a bit lost this game like me just due to him being chill, I feel like we might have a similar spot and we voting each other and going for each other's head if we're both V is absolutely gamelosing but idk who are the wolves doing that or pushing that scenario.



One one hand I like that he recognizes that I'm a blindspot to him bc I feel similar towards him, but when I read this I seem to think "I've already decided what will I do/how I'll treat everyone else in the game" Like, he has that precooked frozen pizza you know which one.

Which leads me to this post because saying "these are my blindspots" implies he has some sort of level of confidence in the rest of his reads but then you get back to his reads and those are like.

- katze = katze
- insom kinda light liked
- benneh seems fine

which isn't the type of confidence he should have on a read that's supposedly not a blind spot. Like, any of katze/insom/benneh might be wolfing. I think he has meat on his achro read regardless of how much I agree with it but his townreads are a bit "w/e this guy's town".

I know this posts sounds kinda nitpicky and I'm not trying to be I just want to point out my Issue. At the same time if I de-attach this post from the other one I think this is kinda town visor in the sense that wolf visor is normally more objective oriented in his reads, and while his achro read might fall in that spectrum, the rest of his reads have like a more genuine "I guess" vibe to it.

"feel most strongly about the bottom bottom". You said I was a blindspot and the only person you talked about me with is Dya, who you went from wolfreading to townreading.

I don't follow. Dya explanation on why I was a wolf was partially wrong (me being around on eod is due to time constrains, can't play while at work), and lack of willingness to solve is prolly of related to me not being here for a big part of the game so not having a good grasp of it (while not being really that familiar with the playerlist)

I think dya is a town because their takes on me are wrong and have zero nuance to them. Like, very basic stuff. So I feel that both they are being honest about them and that if they were a wolf they'd prolly show more doubt/hesitation or try to give a more meaningful explanation on why I'm a wolf instead of a simple/direct one.

But you've played with me a bit more, so you going "I don't disagree with what you said" is kind of... weird?reductionist? because dya's point are technically true but I feel like it shouldn't be hard for you to see a bit farther and see that I could easily be a villager who has been in this same position often in his games.

Another thing to note is that my biggest indicator to you being a wolf that game is that the treatment you gave to me was like, sort of merciless, which kept me thinking after the game "v!visor would've known better, he wouldn't have done me that dirty", which is a similar feeling dya expressed towards you ("v!visor should already gotten to me being town")

Like, I'm sorry if you're v and I'm placing high expectations on you here I just think your overall logic towards my slot and potentially dya's doesn't track

I'll get home in like an hour which is conveniently eod

I'm caught up, re:visor I think he's a wolf but mechanically speaking I think there's merit in letting him live. That said if we let him live here y'all are prolly lunching me so I'm going to pretend I'm fully confident in visor being a wolf from now on

and like sure the reasoning is faintly plausible, but it just feels super made up

and this has been my biggest issue with sk all game, esp from when he randomly started hard pushing insom eod1

it feels like he picks reads to have and then comes up with reasons to have those reads

in the posts above wrt visor, it basically boils down to "you should read me as v but you're not" and idk the transition feels super jagged and unnatural

i can talk more about the eod1 stuff maybe, but i'm curious to hear other people's thoughts on this stretch of post

oh and also that last post saying "i think he's a wolf but mechanically speaking i think there's merit in letting them live"-- this was completely absent from how sk was playing eod, well before he/visor were the guaranteed wagons

and that was why i was getting mad at him, because it literally just felt like "i think he's a wolf and i don't really care about the mechanics"

iunno

i really really don't wanna be wrong here, but i can't get myself to see his play here as a villager

[Cuthillius]

i slept on it

maybe overstating my level of confidence there

[katze]

27

[Cuthillius]

will probs not be super active today for irl reasons that are non alignment indicative and i will probably get annoyed if someone were to imply otherwise so please dont
@EnderWiggin you need to hardclaim your PR and results if applicable asap
@insomnia im probably sheeping you today and killing you tonight if we ML today, glgl

bit of a random question kat but why the last line towards insom?