13er summer game thread

[Winston Hughes]

are there any worlds in which katze is town?

[Winston Hughes]

(okay, you can probably call this a tunnel now)

[nebjiamn]

uhh, idk honestly. i legitimately think i am the best day 1 mash player in the world and i'm usually pretty confident in those (as villa or wolf)

in long games like this i would say i feel pretty confident most of the time but it wanes the longer i go unkilled

i feel really good in lylos generally tho (incl here) and don't struggle with the worry like lots of players do

[Winston Hughes]

btw, being nice to me won't make me townread you, achro

[Winston Hughes]

uhh, idk honestly. i legitimately think i am the best day 1 mash player in the world

[nebjiamn]

if i don't say that i might risk surviving to day 2 and we cna't have that

[Winston Hughes]

if i don't say that i might risk surviving to day 2 and we cna't have that

anything past n1 is basically hell

[Winston Hughes]

and yet here i am enjoying myself on d4

[Achro]

are there any worlds in which katze is town?

Well there are some things (I am skill issued at not responding) that make me think not katze.

1. I would think their treatment of day 1 would be needlessly aggressive for how wolf sided the thread was atp. Two town were voting me in visor and taffy and katze decided to bust my chops. Like a lot. It's a strange tact when they could have done anything else in existence. Not impossible but very strange.

2. They voted sk to bring him to 3 before I gave him a tr day 1 and kept the vote there for awhile. Feels like sk could have been put in very early danger for no real reason when cape was so free and she also could have killed insomnia there as well over cape who gave good info.

3. It felt like sk was appealing to katze a lot yesterday. Feeding her paranoia of me for example quite actively.

4. Suggesting sk is a shrugyeet sod 2 but not voting him eod2 doesn't feel like a bus into a non bus for me. If you are going to go with it to start you just stick to it. It's nonsensical to do otherwise.

5. I find cuth's weird way of not voting benneh day 2 with me to be odd given the stretches of time where it was visor vs benneh and I never vote visor over benneh there since they were both part of my solve but cuth who had said they sussed benneh never voted benneh.

It could be some 200 iq strats in places and I am to discussion but that last point is what names cuth a lock wolf for me imo. There's no reason other than agenda to never vote benneh when your top town read is on the line eod and you have sussed them a lot.

Cuth/kat also feels unpaired due to how cuth talked to katze early about things.

None of these are silver bullets katze is always town. But they are things I am weighing.

I will do the same for benneh with fresh eyes as well

[Winston Hughes]

i think it was dya who asked people for my towntell and i said postcount

and that is nearly true

my real towntell is joy

[nebjiamn]

Well there are some things (I am skill issued at not responding) that make me think not katze.

1. I would think their treatment of day 1 would be needlessly aggressive for how wolf sided the thread was atp. Two town were voting me in visor and taffy and katze decided to bust my chops. Like a lot. It's a strange tact when they could have done anything else in existence. Not impossible but very strange.

2. They voted sk to bring him to 3 before I gave him a tr day 1 and kept the vote there for awhile. Feels like sk could have been put in very early danger for no real reason when cape was so free and she also could have killed insomnia there as well over cape who gave good info.

3. It felt like sk was appealing to katze a lot yesterday. Feeding her paranoia of me for example quite actively.

4. Suggesting sk is a shrugyeet sod 2 but not voting him eod2 doesn't feel like a bus into a non bus for me. If you are going to go with it to start you just stick to it. It's nonsensical to do otherwise.

5. I find cuth's weird way of not voting benneh day 2 with me to be odd given the stretches of time where it was visor vs benneh and I never vote visor over benneh there since they were both part of my solve but cuth who had said they sussed benneh never voted benneh.

It could be some 200 iq strats in places and I am to discussion but that last point is what names cuth a lock wolf for me imo. There's no reason other than agenda to never vote benneh when your top town read is on the line eod and you have sussed them a lot.

Cuth/kat also feels unpaired due to how cuth talked to katze early about things.

None of these are silver bullets katze is always town. But they are things I am weighing.

I will do the same for benneh with fresh eyes as well

can you highlight these

[katze]

are there any worlds in which katze is town?

am i allowed to reply to this

[Winston Hughes]

am i allowed to reply to this

[Winston Hughes]

townkatze doesn't ask for permission there

[Achro]

I'm not "snapping" if that's your concern.

I share your concerns regarding Achro. If wolf Achro, he's interested in riding w/ me today and voting a villager. Even if he loses the cross for w/e reason I'm still "chained" to him and misslunched at F5. Tho I don't currently feel he's doing this, him reaching me town by reading my eod1 is maddening because if he's a wolf he's hitting the exact spots I want him to hit. I don't think my eod1 was bad. I think it's unconventional and I'm partially tilted (not angry, just tilted within the reasonable parameters of the game, in a non toxic way) because I feel like ppl have just decided I'm a wolf bc I have a different way of seeing and saying shit.

So either y'all fuckers reconciliate why my eod was actually bad and achro is pocketing me or I ride with Achro and try to see who shaded me for bad reasons.

I'm currently at 2/3 of my pushers being wolves (maybe3/3?) and one outside that which is scary bc I don't think there's a lot of definitive unpairings.

I currently have in my head who I want to vote but I'm open for that to change after rereading and talking

@nebjiamn

This felt like sk was trying to crawl into Katze's skull. Using her suspicion and twisting it into something new looking but also in a way that feels heavily like he is trying to convince her.

How I read it. Can also be read other ways but there's a lot of stuff littered in day 1 and day 2 that feels very unpartnered because katze and I discussed sk a lot and I never got a sense 'katze has an agenda here'

[nebjiamn]

@nebjiamn

This felt like sk was trying to crawl into Katze's skull. Using her suspicion and twisting it into something new looking but also in a way that feels heavily like he is trying to convince her.

How I read it. Can also be read other ways but there's a lot of stuff littered in day 1 and day 2 that feels very unpartnered because katze and I discussed sk a lot and I never got a sense 'katze has an agenda here'

so i had a similar thought with how SK conceded to you when you threatened to snapvote him if he didn't wait for cuths catchup

but there's nothing about this post i can't imagine SK doing as w/w with katze since he'd already kinda been bullied (not actually bullied) by you into not voting

not super convincing to me but ill let it marinate a bit while i marinate some galbi

[katze]

i think the biggest wolftell winston has done this game is just

their worldview flat out makes no sense

their entire game has revolved around reading me, tunneling me, and then doing nothing about it rly

at the same time their posts when they dont talk about me are actually usually pretty villagery (a few of the ones about me are too imo but most of them arent)

idk its kinda hard to reach either conclusion with any confidence cuz i struggle to believe view of me is like... real. but their posts outside of me being good make me think hes just like literally mindlessly tunneled on me and when he talks literally anything else his VILLAGER SOUL shows



with that said i am 100% confident if i were a wolf and u were town id have killed u by now (day or night)




and if you're that confident on me i kinda wish you'd just vote me but meh

[katze]

i also kinda struggle to believe that someone whos this focused on me has achro as my most likely partner but maybe thats just a sign of respect that he thinks that our interactions are w/w theatre




theyre not

[nebjiamn]

like, SK was super wordy and wifom-y in all his pseudo wall posts and now that we know he's wolf i don't really give that one much credence, particularly since we know SK was prepping to vote someone he was probly not likely to win a vote against, so this would all be part of the plan but maybe i am skill issuing rn

actually might be good to look at that post in relation to how the thread was viewing him/insom/cuth at the time

[Winston Hughes]

with that said i am 100% confident if i were a wolf and u were town id have killed u by now (day or night)

positioning has never been right for that

i've always been in weird spot for you

outcomes too unpredictable

[katze]

positioning has never been right for that

i've always been in weird spot for you

outcomes too unpredictable

shrug

i'd certainly have tried harder to. i can think of zero times ive been a wolf getting hard tunneled by a villager and i didn't just NK them or try to mislunch them

the first wolfgame i got nommed for on MU i literally made like 3 "wtf" kills (to the village) all because they were pestering me and i knew i was the carry of that game

but obv this argument isnt convincing, and it probably shouldn't be minus the "id have tried harder"

[Winston Hughes]

i think the biggest wolftell winston has done this game is just

their worldview flat out makes no sense

that's the opposite of a wolftell for me

when i'm scum, i'll be where i need to be

when i'm town, i just post any old bollocks

[Achro]

so i had a similar thought with how SK conceded to you when you threatened to snapvote him if he didn't wait for cuths catchup

but there's nothing about this post i can't imagine SK doing as w/w with katze since he'd already kinda been bullied (not actually bullied) by you into not voting

not super convincing to me but ill let it marinate a bit while i marinate some galbi

Well yeah I understand, from your perspective you seem more convinced that I am v than I am that you are v, which also weighs into it for me probably? Although you are unsure of winston when you think of them so maybe it balances out.

I personally, just as a matter of preference, don't like to think of extremes unless forced to and yeah that one post isn't that big of a deal but it is a broader pattern. Day 1 when katze voted SK sk was like 'why?' and felt a little jittery. 'town katze wouldn't vote me here' feels weird theater when you consider them cross voting put both of them in contention to die. Katze 'not sure if you're serious' response felt genuine as well.

All things, mostly, can come from partners but I just have to weigh the evidence and pray it all comes out alright.


Also katze isnt 'their world view makes no sense' kinda towny when you think about it? maybe I am being snowed but, visor and taffy didn't make a lick of sense and look at their role PMs lol.

idk I dont feel like winston's trying to play 4d chess here.

but maybe they are. I imagine if cuth is the vote today and is the wolf I am dying tonight and you three are having fun at f3 so yeah lol

[katze]

that's the opposite of a wolftell for me

when i'm scum, i'll be where i need to be

when i'm town, i just post any old bollocks

that certainly could be true

i've seen you play once, im talking more generalized in that post

(for what its worth i do currently lean that to be the truth but i feel like it's very understandable why fmpov i'm a bit on the fence with you)

[Winston Hughes]

I dont feel like winston's trying to play 4d chess here

now that's a read i can get behind

[katze]

Also katze isnt 'their world view makes no sense' kinda towny when you think about it? maybe I am being snowed but, visor and taffy didn't make a lick of sense and look at their role PMs lol.

i think there's arguments for it for sure

my biggest issue is that like. with taffys posts i disagreed with some things they said but i read them and i was like "yeah i can see how they got from A to B" (with a couple exceptions but i chalked those down to them not having been caught up at the time iirc), i don't really remember heavily analyzing visors posts so no comment there

with winston its like

the constant is "katze is a wolf", i'm not gonna dock him for that, but from A -> B "achro is the teammate"(in this case) i don't fully understand and throughout the entire game ive kind of struggled to see the A->B thing

and his actions towards me being a wolf, outside of EoD1, i really feel are second to none. he just kinda sits there and is like "yeah, typical wolf katze controlling the narrative. im gonna go get wasted and talk to katze about cheese during a close EoD"and like. what

also him voting SK over insom on a coinflip allegedly is like kinda wild to me but ive WANTED to do that in the past so this is more of a "grrr" than a smoking gun

[katze]

ngl tho the coinflp thing would be pretty elite if a bus so lol





i do want him to be a wolf because i think the game is much easier to win if he is one

[katze]

yea ngl the more i think about it the more it makes sense he's town but god i don't know how to get him to stop tunneling me

[Achro]

ngl tho the coinflp thing would be pretty elite if a bus so lol





i do want him to be a wolf because i think the game is much easier to win if he is one

For Winston to be a wolf they have to be a master class wolf, and one of the failings of great wolves is thinking other wolves are like them when they often aren't.

It's why I pulled back on my insomnia sr reconsidering sk. Because I linked something I did personally but then later I was like...well not everyone is me. It just is simpler that cuth wanted to vote the counterwagon of town than EPIC DISTANCING or whatever.

idk I think if we're going to win you've got to look at winston and say 'ok you know what, you aren't me, you're probably town, let me treat you with respect and dignity and try to make you see my world view'

because right now you are basically saying to someone who very well could end the game at any moment if town 'your world view is DUMB and I'm better than you"

which uh, is not very helpful? Even if they are a wolf who are you getting on your side with that argument? Benneh who suspects you already? Not me, that's for sure. I think it's towny so I think it's v/v but I don't find that persuasive at all.

Like earlier me and winston were butting heads but when they said I was bullying I kind of stopped. Then I really stopped and realized okay hold on, I'm treating this person in a way that makes them hostile to me. I am being unfair because I think they are being unfair, but they are just defending themselves and also didn't show any fear of me crossing them which is pretty elite wolf play too.

idk, I guess one day at a time for sure is the play here so I'd think we'd want to burn an effigy to cuth today rather than worry about the partner unless you've got reasons to town read cuth that I do not.

[Achro]

yea ngl the more i think about it the more it makes sense he's town but god i don't know how to get him to stop tunneling me

Show him two other wolves.

It's that simple. Stop worrying about you. We don't need you to survive, we need two wolves killed.

Treat him with respect, he's valid the way he plays and is having fun, be proactive. Show the scum cases for your scum guesses.