13er summer game thread

[nebjiamn]

anyway i think the situation is pretty clear i'll write more words later if the game's still going on but right now i wanna read a book because it seems like a better use of everyone's time than the current conversation

and it's a really good book

is it the bible

[Achro]

dude the only reason you built a case on me anyone actually took seriously was because i was busy irl saturday and wasn't able to actually post until after you postcapped

and then you didn't acknowledge my responses d3, and then you did the shit today

because the entire damn case was built on me allegedly contradicting myself, which i objectively did not do, and despite my explanations today literally being "hey look at how these posts were at different times" and "hey look at this post that clarifies the nuance you're trying to ignore on my read there", and if i'd been able to be in thread then i could have pointed it out

if i was a wolf there's no shot i'd be intimidated by your play this game lol

Well I hope not, I've been a nervous wreck. I didn't say you were intimidated by me, just that I am loud and bothersome.

But you for sure twisted yourself into a pretzel to not vote Benneh with me but you were fine voting insomnia (dead town) with sk (top suspect) and you can lie all you like, your duty as a wolf, but it doesn't change that fact.

But you can go "it's not true" because tbh I doubt the town will fact check this and just go off vibes so lol

[Achro]

anyway i think the situation is pretty clear i'll write more words later if the game's still going on but right now i wanna read a book because it seems like a better use of everyone's time than the current conversation

and it's a really good book

okay, deal!

Nice chat with you, ggwp seriously. Sorry I have frustrated you. I'll go read a book too.

[Cuthillius]

Well I hope not, I've been a nervous wreck. I didn't say you were intimidated by me, just that I am loud and bothersome.

But you for sure twisted yourself into a pretzel to not vote Benneh with me but you were fine voting insomnia (dead town) with sk (top suspect) and you can lie all you like, your duty as a wolf, but it doesn't change that fact.

But you can go "it's not true" because tbh I doubt the town will fact check this and just go off vibes so lol

i hope they fact check it lmao it's all there on the table

[Achro]

Current tally


katze(3): WH, Visor, cuth
Visor(3): Taffy, insom, Achro
Benneh(2): ender, katze
SK(2): Dya, , Benneh,

Cuth(1): SK

EOD in 10 minutes

Current tally


Visor(4): Taffy, insom, Achro, WH
Benneh(2): ender, katze
SK(2): Dya, , Benneh,
insom(3): cuth, SK, Visor

EOD in 5 minutes

10 minutes and 5 minutes before EOD Day 2. Presented without comment about how much you wanted SK dead.

[Cuthillius]

ok?

[Cuthillius]

i guess thinking about it more i'm not really surprised you voted me there

it kinda makes sense given the circumstances

sorry for being so snappy about it

[Achro]

i guess thinking about it more i'm not really surprised you voted me there

it kinda makes sense given the circumstances

sorry for being so snappy about it

No worries. Mafia is tough. I feel like going into lylo with you being my strongest wolf read instead of continuing to pocket you is a very strange play for me tbh. I hope the villagers agree!

[Achro]

Just to give my poe

Let's say I am a wolf with x

Benneh town reads me
You town read me
Katze kind of does
Winston does not.

If I am scum with winston two villagers are tring me and benneh has indicated he finds katze very wolfy. Easy win.

If I am wolves with benneh then winston trusts benneh and we kill katze.

If I am scum with katze I simply play up Winston's terrible progression with sk and cross with them. Likely overwhelming them in the process and winning since I was your top villager and benneh thought I was very towny and specifically was not ruling out winston w worlds.

The fact I chose you is something that only comes from town me tbh. All of these other choices are much more straight forward.

[Achro]

Not poe, meant pov lol

[Cuthillius]

i think any world where you would have survived until f3 you start getting looked at real closely tbh

[Cuthillius]

like maybe if you'd gone into today repping a hard v read on me and/or benneh still but you haven't and so you're kinda up the creek without a paddle if you don't get a yeet today

should have thought about that yesterday

[Cuthillius]

and things are uncertain enough otherwise that you decided you have to force a yeet through on me

because it started looking less like you'd be able to get someone to vote me for no good reason once i started pointing out the holes in your case

because if your partner dies before you you're in a really uncomfortable spot in f3

no this makes complete sense for you here

[Cuthillius]

honestly this is probably the highest odds chance of your winning the game

because you were riding on the cred from people thinking you weren't a wolf after d2, but that would have basically expired tomorrow

whereas even now if you die it's not fully clear who your partner is, but if they got yeeted today you're gonna have a rough time surviving tomorrow

but here you can lean on the fact that you're very town-read and leverage it to try to dunk on me after pushing me yesterday when i wasn't around to provide any resistance

you kinda had to take the initiative

i respect it

[Achro]

Nah. All I had to do in any world is yesterday push katze/winston depending on wolf buddy and its gg based on world view.

Turning on you in f7 never makes sense really even if sacking sk was on the table.

Hopefully the two town can see that. The fact that you can barely say who my partner might be is proof your world is incomplete and a bit shoddy. I found a lot of evidence for you being a wolf w/ benneh based on things and you can say you refuted it but you heavily contradicted yourself by being on insomnia with your top suspect while today saying you never joined benneh once in the entire post cap lift because you were suspicious of me despite it making very little sense. You hopped on sk last second and were fine voting insomnia with your top suspect for a stretch. You can say you 'explained this' but it makes little sense why you would ever not be voting one of your top two suspects. Especially one your top suspect pushed at eod1. You are wolf.

[Achro]

To put it simply, if I were a wolf with info the easiest thing to do would be to probably quietly fan the flames of katze/winston instead of trying to diffuse it at every turn.

Winston I think got the gist in f7 when you and sk had that little chat where you asked sk about winston tbh. Atp sk was confirmed scum to you but you weren't treating him that way asking him world view questions as if he was to answer earnestly about why winston was town. You were feeding him opportunities for antispew.

The problem for the wolf team imo came when sk rushed yesterday for insomnia. It IMMEDIATELY set off an alarm in my head - my reaction is evidence of this I threatened to snap vote if ak voted insomnia (a known town) when if he had voted you as villager I had convinced winston that you were wolfy atp.

What I am thinking is sk hung back a bit until he saw the lay of the land and then went after someone I was suspecting and positioned him that way to win yesterday. I started the day thinking sk could be town. As did winston. Katze was nervous that everyone suspected sk. Our mental model of the game was 'this is a tough one'

Sk and I make no real sense as a coordinated team if you look at it. We were not on the same page at all. Ig it's me/katze for example, why would sk choose my third most confident sr to cross? Someone who winston had said looked good? You were right there for the plucking as villager. I had just slammed down a case on you. If it is me/winston then sk can choose either you or katze or bennh and the other would cross vote the other given so many suspicions.

No one was looking at you before I did in f7. Everyone thought you were fine. You had me as your top town read. You can explain it however you like but it makes no sense for me as a wolf to go so hard after someone who thinks so highly of me and then not even have my wolf buddy cross THAT person when both winston and benneh agreed with the case. I can't be both wolf with benneh AND winston and both said you looked wolfy yesterday to me.

Sk didn't cross you because he is your wolf buddy, not mine.

[Achro]

Also a huge thing imo is you trying to downplay your dya read eod2. You said you weren't sure but during eod you said visor and dya were 100% town outside of fringe worlds. That's pretty clear tmi but if it wasn't why would you downplay it today objectively? Why would a villager downplay a correct read? They wouldn't. You as a wolf realize that you calling visor/dya 100% villagers sounds exactly like the tmi it is so today you tried to muddy the waters and say dya wasn't a confident read. But it clearly was.
@Winston Hughes @katze

Want your eyes on this specifically because this is a blatant contradiction of thought. Why say you weren't confident when the wording is so obvious that he was? Because he knew it came from tmi.

Anyway that's all for now. Like if anyone has questions for me.

[Achro]

uh achro to answer your question yes dya/benneh kinda fit that mold wrt what i was talking about with visor team pairings but that's a moot point because at least two of them are 100% villagers here (except in super fringe worlds where we're never winning ever)

mostly just a) visor is a villager b) dya is very probably just a villager c) sure dya and benneh are good enough players that visor would probably feel less responsible to carry than otherwise but it really isn't a productive discussion because a)

Oh, okay so katze can be fpsing vllager in your eyes. Got it.

Well, I need to see some proactive solving. You just need one more villager, and EOD2 you had a very good eye on things - you saw before me that visor and dya were town. So if you are a villager I trust you can find the one other villager besides us, explain it in a way I can understand, and hey I turned around a benneh/cuth/insomnia solve to stab SK so I am a bit unpredictable at lylo. I like it that way.

i didn't really find dya v btw i just thought they were generally villagery and not wolfy at all

but like they were never really a confident v read

visor i will take credit for but also i still don't understand why people who weren't as far tunneled as you there thought that was ever a good idea (hi katze)

but yes i will indeed try to clarify my reads here

First two eod2. Second today with me giving him credit for finding dya and him trying to tell me it wasn't a confident read.

He is trying to say the sky is green and hoping someone believes him. He did this a lot answering my questions. Try to move things around but after he did it like the 5th time I was pretty confident I was being lied to. And thank God I was right lol.

[Cuthillius]

Also a huge thing imo is you trying to downplay your dya read eod2. You said you weren't sure but during eod you said visor and dya were 100% town outside of fringe worlds. That's pretty clear tmi but if it wasn't why would you downplay it today objectively? Why would a villager downplay a correct read? They wouldn't. You as a wolf realize that you calling visor/dya 100% villagers sounds exactly like the tmi it is so today you tried to muddy the waters and say dya wasn't a confident read. But it clearly was.
@Winston Hughes @katze

Want your eyes on this specifically because this is a blatant contradiction of thought. Why say you weren't confident when the wording is so obvious that he was? Because he knew it came from tmi.

Anyway that's all for now. Like if anyone has questions for me.

no

stop trying to twist my words.

you were like omg cuth so proud of you wow you found visor and dya

and i was like sure i found visor and i ended up on dya very likely town but i didn't find them

also literally i didn't say dya was 100% town outside of fringe worlds i even quoted the explanation

and explained it further in other posts

my point was that i thought dya probably v AND most importantly never w/w with benneh

like the hundred percent was indicating that even if dya was w i didn't think they made sense with benneh

the receipts are there

I'm not saying anything new

[Cuthillius]

To put it simply, if I were a wolf with info the easiest thing to do would be to probably quietly fan the flames of katze/winston instead of trying to diffuse it at every turn.

Winston I think got the gist in f7 when you and sk had that little chat where you asked sk about winston tbh. Atp sk was confirmed scum to you but you weren't treating him that way asking him world view questions as if he was to answer earnestly about why winston was town. You were feeding him opportunities for antispew.

The problem for the wolf team imo came when sk rushed yesterday for insomnia. It IMMEDIATELY set off an alarm in my head - my reaction is evidence of this I threatened to snap vote if ak voted insomnia (a known town) when if he had voted you as villager I had convinced winston that you were wolfy atp.

What I am thinking is sk hung back a bit until he saw the lay of the land and then went after someone I was suspecting and positioned him that way to win yesterday. I started the day thinking sk could be town. As did winston. Katze was nervous that everyone suspected sk. Our mental model of the game was 'this is a tough one'

Sk and I make no real sense as a coordinated team if you look at it. We were not on the same page at all. Ig it's me/katze for example, why would sk choose my third most confident sr to cross? Someone who winston had said looked good? You were right there for the plucking as villager. I had just slammed down a case on you. If it is me/winston then sk can choose either you or katze or bennh and the other would cross vote the other given so many suspicions.

No one was looking at you before I did in f7. Everyone thought you were fine. You had me as your top town read. You can explain it however you like but it makes no sense for me as a wolf to go so hard after someone who thinks so highly of me and then not even have my wolf buddy cross THAT person when both winston and benneh agreed with the case. I can't be both wolf with benneh AND winston and both said you looked wolfy yesterday to me.

Sk didn't cross you because he is your wolf buddy, not mine.

dude there's no upside to crossing me from sk

he never wins it in a thousand years and it also makes me look good

he had to cross insomnia because they were already hard spewed unaligned

you were just able to shift thread opinion on me because i wasn't there (evidenced by your not trying to engage with it when we were both in thread again at eod) and try to make this game even winnable for you

sk was always dying yesterday, voting insom minimized spew and was one of the only crosses he ever wins in some worlds

it's a win win for you to play like you did, since you minimize clears going into today and then play your big gross town credit card now before it stops working forever

[Cuthillius]

you just misplayed this, sorry

[Achro]

you just misplayed this, sorry

Fwiw this would be very true if I were a wolf. There was really no reason to be so proactive in the two lylo days when the 3 of benneh/katze/winston had so much heat between them and winston starting off believing sk was town.

Although if sk was always dying yesterday I am surprised you or benneh didn't vote him to decide the cross. It was very possible that winston would vote katze and that would be a wrap.

I noticed right away that sk only got urgency to cross when I cased you. There is no answer to why wolf sk doesn't cross v you in a world where both benneh said you were wolfy and winston who tr'd sk said you were wolfy. If you were a villager I believe winston would have voted you over sk especially if I talked to them about it like I talked about sk during the cross with insomnia.

You have provided very little in the way of substantive argument that I am a wolf because very little exists. I am, unfortunately for you, very obviously not aligned with either katze or benneh given the first two days. If you try to push me hard with winston they will likely understand you are working in bad faith. So you just keep saying the same 2-3 lines over and over hoping it might work. Maybe it will. Who can say?

Alas, i am just a villager doing his best.

[Cuthillius]

at least the things I'm saying over and over are true and also don't depend on the alignment of someone who hasn't flipped yet

[Achro]

The sky is still not green, cuth. Sorry to say. Although yes I know you are a wolf now so my perspective will be biased. But I also covered scenarios for all possible team mates of mine in v you worlds so yeah.

Anyway here's some me and sk unpairing (also sk/winston unpairing imo they had a similar reaction to the vote early)

I'll vote in like, an hour or so if everyone's ok with that.

Please comment on my Cuth thoughts, Insomnia is my third strongest wolf read and it would make today hard for me if you vote there just fyi.

wait, sorry, why are you doing that?

I think we should put the first vote early-ish and I think I should cross with someone here based on the fact that half the game wanted me dead yday.



I'll comment on what you have to say about Cuth in a bit. But I'm partially wary because I'm not sure a team of those three is reasonable actually. Like, they just decide on the same configuration of blindly pushing me? And then I flip town there and Visor shoots one of them and they lose all of their cred? I'm not that sure about that. I think one of you/katze/winston is a wolf. And I'm wary of being one of you/katze because they will want me to vote whoever could be a villager between my three pushers. So yeah I'm kind of riding the theory of y'all three being mostly villagers but I'm trying to make thoughts on my own and not be potentially sweet talked.

You're saying Cuth now and Katze said me/benneh were never v/v so... Idk. I'm wary. And tempted to vote Insom because If he's a wolf I think he'd be the one wolves would put their stocks in, if that makes sense.

Originally he wasn't even planning on commenting on my big cuth thoughts before he voted insomnia.

Because every vote creates new information and we need time to digest that information.

If I cross with X, and game doesn't end, it means there's for sure a wolf between us (or two).

If then Z votes me, then it means Z and X are wolves, or I am one (or all three).

In response to winston

If you think the latter I think you're going to lose the game atm, but I can't stop you.

They didn't really blindly push you much tbh. I think, personally and just my pov, if you are a villager you are using pretty bad reasons for unaligning people when the eods were more nuanced than you are making them seem.

katze/insom don't make a lot of sense together fwiw

katze doesnt make a lot of sense with anyone reading their game, just like you dont imo

do what you think is best though.

but if you vote before cuth has a chance to address my concerns I am snap voting you
@SilverKeith

just fyi

This is when I decide 'wait, its really suspicious that sk and cuth got so heated at eod yesterday but sk doesn't even care to let cuth defend himself from me when it's lylo'

Understood even if I do not think you're snapvoting me.

If you're clearing katze/me your worry is 2 out of Benneh/Cuth/Insom and winston I'm getting?
Hmmmm.

re:your points with cuth that he doesn't vote benneh ever, eh. If I'm arguing for hypothetical v!cuth, he jumped votes all over the place so maybe he didn't land on benneh. If I'm arguing on w!cuth then yeah he might be with wolf benneh and don't want to bus each other, just pretend like they're having some kind of conflict while distancing.

Sadly I'll have to somewhat agree with Benneh here that w!cuth prolly has like a meticoulously planned PATH TO SUCESS which prolly doesn't involve getting benneh there lunched, maybe because Benneh is my main pusher alongside Insom, so if wolf cuth lunches v!Benneh, he loses cred and it makes it harder for them to push me. Instead if they flip v!me it'd be like "welp everyone wanted sk dead and his posts sucked anyway so can't blame me".

So I do not think "not voting benneh" is a lock for them being partnered. Because I think, talking about w!cuth, that him voting insom witouth really meaning to like he did EOD2 alongside me and visor is more partner-y than him not voting benneh, regardless of what he has to said about benneh. Like, If Cuth is a wolf, he neither wants benneh or insom dead, either because they are partners or bc he needs me them to misslunch me. And in that regards, I do not think there's that much of a difference between pretending to vote insom and not voting benneh, because they were never the lunches there.

If we're talkign v!cuth idk what he was thinking but I also don't know wtf he was thinking at eod1. That one he'll have to answer. But the easier answer is that it's easier for him to be wrong about me being a town, than it is to him being wrong about say benneh or insom.

Why would he be arguing for hypothetical v!cuth as a wolf? With his own wolf buddy? When I am telling him to not vote insomnia? Why not spin a tale of them being partnered? It is lylo. You just need one. Yet he gave 3 paragraphs here about v!cuth when he gave no consideration to now known v!insomnia. It's because sk was probably panicked that I was hitting very close to home at this point.

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums...11#post6797711



Hm hm hm.

Hm hm hmmm.

I like Benneh better today than SK tbh. SK has gotten a bit word salady for me and the EOD reads I liked before not so much now.

The above two quotes feel very 'same picture' like, and I am quoting a wolf SK game.

If SK is town he has messed up here, because before I was thinking he was town but now I am forced to wonder if the team is SK/Cuth/? and Benneh just got caught in the cross hairs because his reads and way of playing confuse me.

Really I can always go back to 'fuck it we ball' and the person mafia chose to kill was dya, so if I just vote for them like a COWARD then I can't really be blamed.

idk

the whole me trying to press cuth hard, cuth saying to give time, and then sk excusing cuth going SUPER HARD on him last eod for reasons SK at the time thought were bad in thread to 'nah, cuth doesn't have to respond, I'll vote insomnia within an hour'... idk, just not prudent town play, and maybe we're just never winning if sk is town here because I hate the not giving katze/cuth time to dig into the day much. It's been mostly me and a little bit of benneh atp.

it just feels bad.

I have like 3 posts left so we'll see, but those are my thoughts. If the cross is sk/insomnia I don't know which way I'll go, but probably sk for the above message and how it potentially pocketed me + dya's last will + the forced vote not feeling good at all.

You can see the gears turning. I reference another game on MU because I wanted to see recent play and I find him doing the same thing as wolf there as he did here to get me to town read him and the illusion begins to crumble.

Uh huh.

Achro do you realize this is the exact thing I think wolf!you would be doing right?

I'm reading the last page where you theorize a team of Cuth/Benneh/Insom and say that "Not seeing a lot of evidence it's not the team I think it is". You also say that you want one of those three to be voted. You have basically no problem with me.

I come in declaring intention to vote Insom.

Then you're like "welp actually I like Benneh more than SK now because whatever" and start sprouting anti-sk language and suddenly you have a problem with me voting insom and say that if I cross insom you're like "well idk I'll prolly vote sk here or something".

I'm not sure if you're a wolf, but if you are, this is a textbook example of trying to install fear in me for reaching a decision. By casually claiming that you'd vote me in that cross, then I'm suddenly like "welp can't vote insom now I guess I'll vote with the vote Achro wants me to go". It doesn't work like that. Fuck thinking who tf would vote alongside me, I want to vote a wolf and that's that.

He tries to scare me by calling it wolfy despite him never seeing my wolf game before lol.

If there is one thing town achro is that wolf achro never is, it is whimsical.

Good luck with your decision.

I am a fish. Unbothered by his bluster.

I need a sanity check on Achro's turnaround from y'all

Appealing to the audience. 'Should I cross with achro?' Is the unasked question here. I think to my fellow villagers it should be pretty this isnt w/w so here is hoping.

[katze]

gm

i have thoughts but want benneh and winston to speak first

@Cuthillius if you had to pick a voting order, what would it be and why?

[Cuthillius]

gm

i have thoughts but want benneh and winston to speak first

@Cuthillius if you had to pick a voting order, what would it be and why?

i don't care

probably winston first but i don't think it matters vastly

[Cuthillius]

itt: achro continues to suggest various ways sk could commit suicide and spew people in a way that genuinely wouldn't help wolf win chances instead of crossing someone who might actually get killed that day and who's already clear if sk dies lol

[katze]

why winston over benneh?

i get ur kinda annoyed w achro and i kinda wanna tell you to just stop talking to him but you probably know that already. im a neutral third party in this argument

[Achro]

I do think it matters vastly especially when you consider that winston is sring me and if town is the game losing vote. You do love your subtle manipulation don't you? Just a thumb on the scale. The order here matters a lot but by playing it cool you can seem relaxed. A good facade.


My order is benneh first - he has the most partner equity imo and since he had me as top town read and you as wolfy it should be an easy decision. If not, his turn around is interesting.

Next katze. Second most partner equity

If it is tied 2-2 after that I trust my fate ultimately to Winston once all votes are on the table.

[nebjiamn]

im voting last :)