13er summer game thread

[katze]

you're not wrong

waiting for the game to end, mostly, and expecting it to have done by now

my relationship with mafia isn't a super healthy one

i went and stared at my valley and breathed for half an hour earlier I'll be ok

were you not breathing until then that sounds bad

and yeah i feel that, im trying to find a good medium. i think this game was closer than ive ever really gotten at least

[Achro]

Days 3 and 4 have been fantastic for me.

Game started on day 3, right?

[Cuthillius]

Days 3 and 4 have been fantastic for me.

Game started on day 3, right?

I'm glad you're having fun

[Cuthillius]

genuinely

[Achro]

genuinely

I appreciate this more than you know. I am gentler than I might sometimes seem in the midst of mafia.

You said you aren't having fun atm though. I think any more is just beating the point and my last few posts sum up my feelings well. Shall we both adjourn for our peers to judge us?

[katze]

question for the class: if a fish went fishing would that be fucked up or what

[Achro]

question for the class: if a fish went fishing would that be fucked up or what

I mean, it depends on the fish species I think? Like, is the fish super closely related or is it distant so like would it be... a human hunting apes or something. Maybe still wrong but not the same as cannibalism you know?

[katze]

i was woefully unprepared for an actual analytical answer and that is a skill issue on my part

[Achro]

i was woefully unprepared for an actual analytical answer and that is a skill issue on my part

Cuth is frozen and crying in wolf chat.

gn.

[Cuthillius]

no i was eating pizza and playing chess

a good life

[katze]

no i was eating pizza and playing chess

a good life

what kind of cheese

[Cuthillius]

what kind of cheese

cheddar

[katze]

cheddar

villagery

[Cuthillius]

question for the class: if a fish went fishing would that be fucked up or what

nope

[katze]

nope

wolfy

(gn, i am vaguely hoping i wake up to one of the other two having cast a vote and the game not being over, but either way ive had fun today ty for gaming gamers)

[Cuthillius]

night katze

sleep well! get good rest in your brain

[Winston Hughes]

for now i'm ignoring everything being said lately and just reading back over previous days

so far the main takeaway is that katze looks better and everyone else looks worse

if it comes to it again today, instead of a coin flip i'm thinking of giving my cat two bowls of treats to choose between

[Winston Hughes]

oh, and another thing, the term 'skill issue' really needs to fuck off

[nebjiamn]

heh

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

skill issue

[Raskolnikov]

oh, and another thing, the term 'skill issue' really needs to fuck off

Blame MU and its dumb memes...

Tally is unchanged

[Achro]

oh, and another thing, the term 'skill issue' really needs to fuck off

I say skill issue instead of I am an idiot tbh sounds better to me.

[Achro]

QUOTE=Achro;2053848504]I don't know you and I don't trust your reads if you think this based off my isolation. I could be the skill issue, admittedly, but that's where I am at.

But okay, wanna kill the fuck out of benneh then?[/QUOTE]

i'm open to the possibility for sure

QUOTE=Achro;2053848504]I don't know you and I don't trust your reads if you think this based off my isolation. I could be the skill issue, admittedly, but that's where I am at.

But okay, wanna kill the fuck out of benneh then?[/QUOTE]

i'm open to the possibility for sure

insom i think it would be wild to specifically claim vig there as wolf vs other possible prs that would have a way higher possibility of letting him live if anything except it specifically being a completely fake result, no?

this is a bizarre way of framing it?? i don't think sk's posts have been fantastic either but i don't think his posts have been so terrible that he'd be being run up no contest if there weren't wolves propping him up for ?some reason?

QUOTE=Achro;2053848504]I don't know you and I don't trust your reads if you think this based off my isolation. I could be the skill issue, admittedly, but that's where I am at.

But okay, wanna kill the fuck out of benneh then?[/QUOTE]

i'm open to the possibility for sure

QUOTE=Achro;2053848504]I don't know you and I don't trust your reads if you think this based off my isolation. I could be the skill issue, admittedly, but that's where I am at.

But okay, wanna kill the fuck out of benneh then?[/QUOTE]

i'm open to the possibility for sure

insom i think it would be wild to specifically claim vig there as wolf vs other possible prs that would have a way higher possibility of letting him live if anything except it specifically being a completely fake result, no?

this is a bizarre way of framing it?? i don't think sk's posts have been fantastic either but i don't think his posts have been so terrible that he'd be being run up no contest if there weren't wolves propping him up for ?some reason?

vote: insomnia

How you liking this?

sk's posts kinda got reasonable for a little bit in the middle and now i'm back to "how are those actual opinions on this game"

anyway I tell myself if I get angry I am skill issued as a rule, so maybe visor is a silly vig and its benneh/dya/?

votes on benneh, good luck, I'm just a fish who tried his best and... yeah, won't be playing here again either way I think, bad vibes.

This is important because at 7:19 I am willing to concede that I fucked up on visor. I am confirmation biased on dya but 40 minutes until eod and I am actively reconsidering visor w. Cuth response to this post is fine he talks about my attitude but notably never brings up the fact that I am reconsidering visor or wanting benneh over first atp because actually good for me I had forgotten I did realize that my anger serves me no good. 40 minutes to eod I am no longer pushing visor. I am pushing benneh. Cuth still doesn't vote benneh and reading this back cuth's answers today don't add up as to why he never voted benneh because I was suspecting visor. His vote was on insomnia here and atp he had soft defended sk at times.

explain to me in detail how the visor vig claim makes more sense as a wolf than as a villager here

Instead of engaging with me saying visor may be v and I am sucking he does engage with sk instead.

vote: nebjiamn

sorry for the rand brother, sorry to the town for skill issuing this one earlier lol

Katze joins benneh wagon.

again there are a lot of claims that would give him a much higher chance of making it another day and aren't nearly as suspicious as vig, since unless ender full rescinded there the vig claim was always completely unbelievable

and i don't think it makes sense that he'd a) make a pr claim and b) assume ender didn't have any results, because if he was a wolf the only way he could assume b was if he didn't do anything last night, in which case he'd have no need to claim pr because he'd know it was fps?

Cuth keeps talking to sk.

vig claim means visor dies today unless fully rescinded

other pr claims mean visor could survive even motion detected or something like that

but his specific claim would be suicidal as wolf unless he had 100% confidence ender was faking the peek

unless i'm missing something

Visor(3): SK, Taffy, insom
Benneh(3): Achro, ender, katze
SK(2): Dya, Benneh
katze(2): WH, Visor
insom(1): cuth

In context cuth quoted a post of mine 15 minutes ago saying 'hey nabbed I am wrong on visor let's go benneh' and he ignored that part, discussed another part, and is off both main wagons on insomnia which really makes no sense with his poe.

yes but his claim would not maximize his chances of living one more day??

Keeps talking to sk (he snuck in a visor response about him almost certainly being v - something most people without tmi were not saying)

vote: silverkeith

it's literally mechanics

Votes sk after going back and forth 20 minutes after I stopped pushing visor.

ok can we just kill sk

Pushing the mafia goon for thinking visor isn't confirmed when most people were saying that. Yes sk was mafia goon but lots of people didn't think visor was lock town but cuth chose to have a spar with sk. It's intentional. It's informed. Everyone else was in chaos but cuth talked mostly with just sk for awhile back and forth here.

dude

i think visor is ~clear at this point by the mechanics of his claim

and that makes a big difference in my reads

and you're still w-reading him

and so i'm trying to explain the logic to you and it doesn't seem like you're even trying to hear what i'm saying

what on earth else should i be doing right now

A lot of people were still suspicious of visor. But cuth really wanted everyone to see him and sk go at it and sk obliged.

?????????

this is the most pointless interaction i have had all game and that's saying something

Why would v!cuth ever say this if he thought he was exposing a wolf? Not pointless at all then.

w/w

Benneh couldn't help himself tbh. He says sk/cuth is w/w and he is right and this imo will maybe prove to be tmi in the end.

sk/benneh
katze/insom/taffy?

I said I could be wrong on visor 20 minutes ago but it was never addressed. Doesn't mention thinking I was suspicious for my benneh push once like he claimed he thought today. It's just made up.

ok i think you have a bit of a point i might be generalizing the feelings from visor being lock w after md claim into the stuff before

i still think there are a lot of better claims than vig there??

but you're right it's not lock

In response to katze confused why cuth thinks visor is a lock. Cuth's tmi is showing and pulls it back.

vote: insomnia

Why vote insomnia here as a villager? When sk/benneh are wagons. There is no answer that's good because cuth is a wolf. I know this for a fact. I hope the villagers see it too.

taffy feels similar to sk in my mind

which is a thing

Comparing taffy to sk.

...

That is certainly a comparison alright.

i wouldn't trust in me

Tells visor not to trust him on insomnia. Good advice tbh.

then why are you on it

Why is cuth not more concerned at 6 minutes before eod that his top suspect is on a wagon with him as a villager? Again. No Good answer. He is a wolf. And he avoided benneh like a plague for reasons he said today that are not backed up by reality. He claims I was hard tunneled on visor but actually when I extended the olive branch on benneh I SPECIFICALLY SAID you know what. My anger gets the best of me. Maybe I got this wrong. So no. I was not in fact trying to kill Visor for long stretches of eod. My vote on benneh and my olive branch was extended for quite some time. Taffy even hilariously in hindsight accused me of moving votes away from visor in a partnered fashion which admittedly I didn't respond to well. I was trying to admit my wrong and vote with my town read but cuth was too busy atp voting with his top scum read sk

no but like actually why are you on it

No unvote yet. No recognition of 'oh wait sk has been scummy this is a bad wagon' just a back and forth between buddies.

i probably will do that

Just more theater with sk

is this a good time to say that i thought your eod was pretty wolfy actually

Sneaks in a jab at katze

And that is cuth's eod

@katze @Winston Hughes I think if you read this and then read his explanations today why he didn't vote benneh with me you will see why I voted him and why you should too. It is cuth/benneh.

[Achro]

Sorry about the beginning I fucked that up lol

[Achro]

I will also note that cuth basically quoted 3 total messages of mine and said vague things how I could be partnered with sk and when asked who my buddy id abs having three choices my friend over here literally said 'could be anyone'

He is almost in anti spew at this point hoping you guys are either paranoid of me or benneh can clutch it in f3. The man who had top town reads on visor and dya at a time where we were confused and uncertain now feels like he is clueless. It is because his tmi doesn't suit him here. Making reads and analyzing the game isn't beneficial as it might cause one of the villagers to suspect something. So he reacts to me and hopes it is enough.

It is easy to look good with tmi and games are hard at the start because a lot of pieces are unflipped. But as you remove pieces it brings clarity to things. So how could cuth who nailed sk, who called visor obv town, top town read dya (his words today not mine) miss so badly on me being a wolf to the point that I was his top town?

He didnt. The reads aren't real. Even after I cased him yesterday he held fast that I was his top town read and he tried to speak to me. Say it was a misunderstanding. I asked questions. He in my estimation gave answers that did not satisfy me so I voted. It is only then when suddenly I am a self but the evidence he has for this isnt a lot and I have shown pretty well imo that his eod mindset is very pairing with benneh and his interactions with sk are intentional, two way, and different from any sk interactions with flipped town.

If you are uncertain I would really again ask winston and katze to ask me any question you like. I think I have presented a really solid case.

But either way the back half of the game was super fun for me tbh. It's been a long ass time since I was at lylos as town. The pressure is wrecks my nerves but it is also really thrilling.

I love mafia.

[Achro]

Sorry I am phone posting warly in the morning so the typos are real lol

[Achro]

Anyway I have talked a lot about cuth but if we don't get both wolves in the next two days town loses so my observations about benneh are less than cuth because benneh is harder to pin down. Benneh mostly posted well and was on sk early which is different from cuth. Also benneh says that the reason a wolf cuth wouldn't vote for him was THE FEAR and that sounds hollow but maybe it isn't? I don't know their relationship so if wonston or kkatze thinks this makes sense maybe it does. I found the behavior pairing but it doesnt have to be.

I found sk's appealing to katze calling me wolfy yesterday to be unpairing but there are worlds where sk is always going to try to take the fall and this is anti spew. Katze day 1 did vote me after I voted sk which could be a chainsaw defense. I found cuth's movement around katze pretty predatory in places in terms of the ease of it and they didn't feel like they were on the same wavelength very much.

Winston going 'not sk' is a bad look and also insomnia thought winston was very wolfy. But cuth's treatment of them also feels like they were concerned when winston suspected them compared to when benneh or sk said it.

They both have some wolf equity but it always felt like when cuth and benneh discussed things it was like brothers arguing. I didn't feel any real heat. A lot like sk/cuth eod where they argued on and on but somehow with 5 minutes left they were both voting for insomnia.

My reads are less accurate the less I know people. I would have loved to get some real time going with benneh but since I placed my vote on cuth he has not had any thoughts for me other than me being brain dead for suspecting him. Which tbf I did say if that's all he had then he shouldn't reply so I guess that checks out.

If cuth is voted out and I die consider my spirit vote on benneh in f3 but also I would want to ask anyone alive in f3 questions similar to the ones I asked cuth today. I would not be above re evaluation.

Rn I am stuck on why v!benneh offers?winston no guidance on who to vote after the cross. He has suspected cuth and katze for days so complete radio silence feels like a wolf claim fmpov but again I don't know benneh so I don't know if this is always how he is at lylo and it's just different. Like how Katze's was different.

So yeah if game continues that's my f3 legacy. Strongly leaning benneh but I would treat both people like I did cuth today and ask questions before making my mind up.

[Achro]

Another difference check between katze/winston and benneh/cuth imo is how both benneh and cuth have wielded 'being right' like a cudgel while both winston and katze have shown humility and understanding.

Winston will admit when things make them look bad. They will own up to their flaws and resolve to do better. Katze will mostly say they understand mindsets or things are reasonable. They admit to making errors and even saying something like being happy about eod1 when a villager was killed feels very towny to me because I disagree but it is also earnest sounding. It did help them solve despite a town being dead.

Cuth seemed to enjoy telling katze I was alive be ause my solve yesterday was benneh/visor/dya so of course I would live. He tried to beat me over the head that I was WRONG about visor and WRONG about dya ao why woukd he vote benneh with me? Despite that not making sense since he was the one who cased benneh independent of me. But he uses what I was wrong about to stab me. It's very wolfy. Very 'informed minority' style of play.

Benneh as well let's us know 'I had the best play of any villager here except maybe dya(who is dead)' so I have EARNED the right to vote last. He wields what I believe is TMI like a weapon. Ready to disarm anyone who dares approach him.

That's just a very wolfy tactic tbh. 'I am town because I was right' at lylo is actually a really bad argument. Because all of the best town were night killed by the mafia so if you were so right then why are you here?

I know why me winston and katze are here. We are silly and voted visor. Defended sk in places. Suspected obvious town. We kind of fucked up. We were uninformed.

But if benneh is so good... why is he so certain he is even going to make f3? Why does he feel the need to 'be confirmed' by voting last? Rhetorical of course. It's all imo just games. Just tricks of light.

Katze is here because they have been paranoid of me all game
Winston is here because they have been paranoid of katze all game
I am here because I have been paranoid of katze all game.

Just three little town mice dancing to the tune of the wolves. Benneh and cuth playing fucking amazing. Why are they here then?

They will have answers to this of course. There are always answers to any question in mafia. But they weren't killed so either they are wolves (in the case of cuth this is a certainty) or maybe they didn't play well enough to call people brain dead for suspecting them.

I just like philosophizing. Don't mind me

[nebjiamn]

i dont play lylo like you do and i dont need to appeal to the other two players who both have mafia equity about who to vote between two players where at least 1 is confirmed mafia. information is power in this scenario and i hold all the cards because i'm a villager and i don't need to do anything other than cast a good vote today and i can be stubborn as all hell and demand i vote last which is what im going to do

if katze is a villager they'll understand. they might not like it but they'll understand. i have no idea what winston will do but he was also gone all day yesterday, so please don't try to spin this as if i'm leaving people out to dry and not participating

if game continues after today one of us will have to read katze or winston and i don't need to 'help them' solve the game. they can ask questions and engage you or solve today however they want, but imo, the game is solved, its in the previous 33 pages. the only thing coming out of you and cuth today is self preservation and not at all alignment indicative, which is why ive been spending the day reading rather than engaging either of you two

[Achro]

i dont play lylo like you do and i dont need to appeal to the other two players who both have mafia equity about who to vote between two players where at least 1 is confirmed mafia. information is power in this scenario and i hold all the cards because i'm a villager and i don't need to do anything other than cast a good vote today and i can be stubborn as all hell and demand i vote last which is what im going to do

if katze is a villager they'll understand. they might not like it but they'll understand. i have no idea what winston will do but he was also gone all day yesterday, so please don't try to spin this as if i'm leaving people out to dry and not participating

if game continues after today one of us will have to read katze or winston and i don't need to 'help them' solve the game. they can ask questions and engage you or solve today however they want, but imo, the game is solved, its in the previous 33 pages. the only thing coming out of you and cuth today is self preservation and not at all alignment indicative, which is why ive been spending the day reading rather than engaging either of you two

Yeah sure. Like I said I don't know you and I am working off imperfect information.

If this is your villager play so be it. However if you believe the only thing coming from both of us today is self preservation when I am the one that out myself in this position I believe someone here once told me I was a bad villager but now I don't mind as much. I don't think that person had good criteria to be able to judge me.

There is no spin. Winston doesn't have to be here to talk to winston. Play how you want though. It's your game too. I can only comment on how your play effects my perception of your alignment.

Anyway I was in the middle of this..

Anyway since I was a giant dick day 2 I feel like being vulnerable about my mafia play style.

So back on gamefaqs when I was a teenager, centuries ago, wolves didn't really play fair. They would use every dirty trick in the book to get you to unvote them. ate, anger, toxicity every day, and just anything to win. That's the environment I was raised in as a mafia newbie. That's where I learned to play and those habits were mine for a little bit. Luckily it didn't take too long for me to realize that's not how I wanted to play anymore but other people weren't willing to change so my town game had to adapt.

I am actually always willing to change my reads. Hell sometimes I might even try to sheep a town read (like I did with conceding visor for benneh because I liked cuth's case day 2) but I learned I have to be firm. I have won every non mash town game this year but it's not because I am always right. No one could live up to that standard. If you frequent spec chat you hear me say the worst part about my fame are my reads. It's true. I am a better wolf than villager because I will make mistakes. Sometimes choosing the micro (sk's response to me) over the macro (sk's wall and the game state ignoring it should have stuck to me better)

So why do I come across as super confident? I guess because I want to challenge people so I can try to understand them. I am really bad at reading people who don't post a lot or float around so I usually like to world build with assumptions and then go from there. 'Does my world still make sense' after day one mostly yea. With ladd dead cape dead and ender dead after thinking back over the day my middle of the day 1 was validated so I was back to mostly my original poe. My town reads so far had been all correct. So I pursued sk. Then things happened.

I will adjust my language in the future based off feedback, but tbh I am always fearful of being wrong I just have learned that fear doesn't help me solve games so I set it aside and press on.

[Winston Hughes]

just to be clear, beyond skimming for anything truly revelatory, i'm not reading achro's posts at all at this point and haven't been for a while

and, for that matter, i don't need anyone else petitioning me for one side or the other

the only helper i'm prepared to take on at this point is cute and furry and named daisy (because my son wouldn't let me change her name to barbara like i wanted)