13er summer game thread

[katze]

- I like Achro's approach from a "try new things" perspective tho I think it's kind of un-achro-ey. Ftr I'd have taken off the list somene who I didn't want dead just bc I wanted to play more with em.

- I didn't like Taffy's vote towards Achro. It's the kind of explanation for a vote I give when I'm wolfing. Neither them asking for opinions on Visor/Achro so early into the game.

- I decided I wasn't going to really try to read katze today at post #60.

- I don't like Insom's read on ender (#62). I think there's some dissonance between what's he's stating and the importance it should have. Idk how to explaining.


why?

- katze is a wolf per post 70. Only partially joking. Also driving woat.

- I think ladd is kinda ok just based on him reaching some v reads which I don't follow but I feel like I should follow.

- Achro explanation towards the taffy thing is illegitimate and apocryphal which is town-indicative of him yesyesyes i do believe this mmhmm.

- I've changed my mind on Achro and I think he's a wolf based on 102. I feel like if Ladd is town, and ladd's buttons clicked when Achro went like "oh I have this idea but it's ok I wasn't really attached to it" and then Ladd townread him for it, this repeat of him explicitly not being attached to ladd's wolfread feels like an appeal to those same buttons.

Also I do not like that half the procesing I've done this game is Achro-centric, tho it makes sense since he's the person who has posted more.


I read this post before my mind made the connection that it was a post made by Achro which was mildly amusing

I now regret that katze and Achro are the two players I wrote the most about because I saw the thunderdome post so I've decided to go to sleep. I'm also sorry for the catch up formatting for this post.

i'll bite

what about it is towny

Hello @SilverKeith two questions. Why is it unlike me to try new things? If I recall the last game we played together, draft mafia, opened with me doing something new and interesting as well. I would say it's fairly typical in games with new conditions for me to experiment.

102 is not wolf indicative for me I am afraid. I just replaced a generic reason to wolf read ladd a little with what I felt was a stronger one to tr him. Don't see why you feel that is something that is firmly in the domain of wolf achro vs town achro. What is your experience with my wolf game?

As for Taffy first off way to shade my town sorting process, but also most would agree with the process I use to sort townirs being as you described so fair.

Anyway I don't know taffy's meta but to explain I think generally it is very town indicative to look for gotchas like Taffy did with me. I feel it is more likely villagers look at past games AND also villagers don't really consider the results before cherrypicking data. Taffy got my post count right and said 'how are you going to struggle to solve?' And didn't stop to ask if I was a wolf. Or I'd town killed any wolves. Or if I posted the last day for their posts per day to be accurate. Felt very cute and town to me.

Now if this is stuff Taffy does all the time as a wolf someone will have to let me know.

Hmm

Not sure how to feel about the wall tbh. It feels like commentaryvanyone could say. It's all fine but not hearing town in you quite yet. It's not disagreeable in its conclusions but I also dont understand why you think Taffy is the best vote in wolf achro worlds as I think I would be TMIing them town if wolf with my town read of them attempting to disarm them like I did. I guess you don't need to worry too much about pairing thoughts before any flips though and maybe thats the case here.

Can you link a wolf game where you reference other games for your first vote? I find this is usually town more than scum at a rate much higher than rand in my experience and would like to see otherwise.

If Taffy does this type of thing as a wolf with proof then they haven't done much else and fair, but it would for sure never be my first thought to think wolf.

Wall was ok although not out of sk's scum range and catchup walls are kind of the easiest thing to fake. Good look if I am wrong about Taffy though as sk could have easily pivoted to me instead.

Actually maybe lean wolf which is a little annoying because in one post SK has more content than most of the player list. This day feels destined for a chop of a villager unless I am wrong on Taffy being one. Not feeling a lot of thoughts from a lot of people hmm.

I guess my problem is I don't understand the town thought process behind not voting me there if you think I am a wolf. I am very active and also in my mind kind of unpaired with Taffy for the way I talked about him as the good thing to do there w/w is to get into some type of scuffle not top town them and praise them which I feel like can be considered much more pockety than whatever I did with ladd in that post. It feels unintuitive to me. Why read intentions into ladd interaction when the wolf achro/town Taffy ones are much more obvious. I also feel like your reasoning for Taffy is weak unless this is firmly in their usual scum initiative.

Further, it feels like the difference between these two events is commenting on ladd also allows you to smoothly town read ladd almost in the background which feels unpartnered to me.

So while I don't expect this to go anywhere since you posted a nice wall and 50 posts is not going to give me any thread pull, I guess I will vote you for now.

vote:silverkeith

Not confident or anything but I at least want follow up on my points. Some more firm discussion would be nice too if possible. If not I guess we will kill whichever villager we care about least in about 12 hours and call it a day.

This is your second post and you have no content. Is this a joke vote and if not what have you not liked about katze so far? Do you enjoy playing mafia or are you here for the experience? Do I know you by another name?

Thanks if and when you get to these questions.

Winston is probably always town for mindmelding with me about Katze's posts but saying it a different way. Katze did indeed feel like they were managing image a lot. It doesn't make katze wolf but I think observing that quietly does make Winston town.

pt1

[Achro]

It really is a joy to watch you work. The way you gently nudge your thumb onto that scale, just enough to shift the narrative.

And, for sure, you do this kind of thing as any alignment. That's just good play.

What's more interesting is the 'why' you do it.

This game, so far, the why looks more scummy than townie to me.

Lmao winston is so uninformed I am sorry but this is just so cute and paranoid omg

[Achro]

I don't know exactly.

But perhaps the contrast here of maliciously/innocently and scummy/townie could be an example.

The word choice is unconscious, I think, because you're too good to rely on conscious word choices - they slow you down, tend to look clunky, risk the encroachment of paranoia. And you're also really good at regulating your mood, so that your unconscious doesn't tend to spit out those more obvious errors or tells that people like me need to be careful of when wolfing. But, for all that, there still has to be an agenda at work - an implicit intention to reshape the gamestate in some way that benefits your goal.

The unconscious choice to frame the dichotomy as 'maliciously' vs 'innocently' poses the question ethically, as one of good against evil. It is a dramatic framing, implying a rhetorical purpose. If you were less regulated, I might think this had an emotional component - you being irritated at my suspicions - but I'm pretty sure that's not what's going on here. And, to be sure, there are townie reasons why those words might have come to mind.

But it's the second part that tweaks me. You've already asked the question, with its implicit rhetorical load. And there is no reason anyone should misunderstand the meaning. And yet your instinct tells you to restate it in what are, in mafia, the most value-neutral of terms. What you're doing here, it seems to me, is sanding the edge off.

This is the type of post from someone like winston that if you think it came from a wolf people make fun of you for it post game.

I get voting me I am a villain but winston as my only partner is very lmao imo

(I have been saying this for awhile now recency bias)

[Achro]

Only two kinds of town chop Achro today:

i) a brilliant one

ii) a foolish one

Based.

[Achro]

pretty much any other choice and i'd have followed you here

just for the joy

This is sickeningly uninformed lol. 'Anyone but my scum buddy snd I would have joined you' is really reaching to the moon


Defending another person is fun tbh

[nebjiamn]

achro stop defending wolves broham

[Cuthillius]

achro stop defending wolves broham

that's what i'm saying

[Achro]

achro stop defending wolves broham

It would be funny if it was winston/cuth and winston faked rng both lylo days to bus to set up a f3 win.

If you are town I guess thats a very spooky thought 4 you

[katze]

Personally if I were in Katie's position as a town slot I woukd be a bit curious why SK and I both as wolves but voted Taffy and along with that didn't make any comment about our pairing being unlikely.

The fact katze thinks of that in relationship to Taffy intuitively but Keith in a big wall doesn't think about it at all along with the fact that walls are pretty easy makes me start to think more than they were just faking their thoughts. Would love to hear Keith's thoughts on the matter though.

My point is sk thought Taffy and I were wolf both but made no comment on how that pairing is weird while you did.

Also how do I see how many posts I have in a topic. I counted earlier lol

This is a town post and dya is a town who is having trouble getting into the game.

Let's actually go back 3 years in time to the last time I pulled scum sk out of my hat day one in champs and commit some metallurgical murder.

pt2



i can totally see the world where achro is like, alright imma distance with the goon and towncore winston (who is presumably a wolf PR in that world)

but i don't know, it's definitely like... hes borderline burying keith here, right? he's encouraging me to scumread keith more when my read on him was basically "not enough content, ask later"

but like, otoh, literally no villager at this point of the thread really Feels That. and that's not damning, this read on keith is more analysis than most of us were putting in this early and also had some personal experience in it. also SK talked about achro a lot so its absolutely reasonable to put more attention to it

ender called it towny, ladd called it towny

cuth questioned why it was towny i suppose. but that's different and can easily be him interrogating ender more than SK

hrm

i do kinda. feel like the SK wall is written to like, look towny... i'm toying with the idea of it being partially tailor made to pocket achro (and failing) but its hard to tell since SK kinda dipped after writing it. that cunning bastard smh!

i also toyed with the idea of it being w/w because of the bottom line of the SK post being like, "haha im talking about katze and achro so much!" where he didnt reaaaalllllly talk about me that much but idk how much i actually believe this

i've seen w!achro kinda try to nudge v!me into wolfreading a wolf but in that case it was in a neighborhood and also not on day 1 and also someone i was wolfreading already kind of? yknow, in my hedgy hedginess.

the winston read is interesting, i know achro is a believer in village reading people who mindmeld with him but it is kind of funny (and concerning) to think that him/keith/winston is just him shielding his bros for pretty weak "mindmelds"

[nebjiamn]

It would be funny if it was winston/cuth and winston faked rng both lylo days to bus to set up a f3 win.

If you are town I guess thats a very spooky thought 4 you

not really

winston is all but confirmed wolf

the spooky thought is you/cuth tbqh

[katze]

i was kinda hoping winston would come in late and be wolfy cause it'd have made the game easier to sort but sadly he seems >rand v too (i wrote this before i saw his last post)


villas
ladd
benneh
cuth
dya


thinner villas
insomnia
winston


wanna say v/v, but there may be 1 here cause of game state
katze
achro

had as villagery at some point but back to null
sk
visor

PoE
taffy - mostly benneh sheep, blame him eheh
ender


hopefully just a wolf
cape90



feels SUPER lazy but its how i feel so nothing i can do about it. i guess my spiciest take is that dya is a villager lol


we'll see how EoD plays out


bbl

all im saying is every time im in xYLO and i look at a ladd reads list he was somehow right but idk he townread us all lmao

yes i see the achro/me dichotomy but im p sure at this point of the thread he thought the wolf in it was me not him

[Achro]

Tbh in my view the most unpairing thing about that is literally no one else gave a fuck about it but then sk spent a post breaking down the points and defending them when only I ever cared.

Maybe thats just bias but despite my efforts no one ever bit and then sk juked me. Sk made sure that the first thing he did was address my concerns and mold his world view to match more of mine.

Don't know if it is as obvious from a 3rd person pov.

[nebjiamn]

if i was a wolf i'd probly say something like:

consider that the two best readers of me both had me as villager itg

so.

consider that the two best readers of me both had me as villager itg

[Achro]

not really

winston is all but confirmed wolf

the spooky thought is you/cuth tbqh

Oic

[Cuthillius]

Tbh in my view the most unpairing thing about that is literally no one else gave a fuck about it but then sk spent a post breaking down the points and defending them when only I ever cared.

Maybe thats just bias but despite my efforts no one ever bit and then sk juked me. Sk made sure that the first thing he did was address my concerns and mold his world view to match more of mine.

Don't know if it is as obvious from a 3rd person pov.

it's not

unless you mean that you're both wolves

[Achro]

if i was a wolf i'd probly say something like:

consider that the two best readers of me both had me as villager itg

so.

consider that the two best readers of me both had me as villager itg

Man. I remember when ender hard defended dizzy from me and chopped me on syndicate and dizzy won in f3 when I had him nailed day 2.

Ender could read dizzy very well tbh

[Achro]

it's not

unless you mean that you're both wolves

Hey I stopped doing it to you.

[katze]

if i was a wolf i'd probly say something like:

consider that the two best readers of me both had me as villager itg

so.

consider that the two best readers of me both had me as villager itg

ladd and dya?

me finding you as a villager doesnt... really change that much for me anyway

[Cuthillius]

Hey I stopped doing it to you.

aight

to restate my point though the issue wasn't you calling me a wolf (obvs from your perspective i am) but rather the cute "i'm so impressed by your play you played REALLY well except for the time i caught you lul" and stuff

again it would already be incredibly irritating if it was sincere

feel free to state that you think i'm a wolf though lol

[katze]

benneh whens the last time u randed wolf lol i legit cant find anything outside of hydra games and old ass games

[Cuthillius]

what book(s) you been reading lately achro

[Raskolnikov]

what book(s) you been reading lately achro

Postcap will be reinforced D5 (if there is one )

My F5 touch is broken

[Achro]

Katze, I am going to do a very stupid thing and be 100% with you, which will probably backfire but it's my game too.

Just vote Cuth. I controlled both days of LYLO. I made SK QUAKE when I said I was going to snap vote him. I made Cuth call me top tr over and over and try to placate me before snapping him early in the day where both days there is no need for any of this from w!Achro.

If you're going to be a paranoid person who asks what if's for another 50 minutes, just vote me, I'll say ggwp to the wolves, and I can move on and it's okay. I'm a great wolf player. I get the paranoia and the worry.

But this is day 4 with 50 minutes left. The only thing you're doing now is twisting and glaring at things again and again.

It's cuth. You know it's cuth. Deep down. But you don't want to be wrong. If you think I have snowed you, if you think winston has snowed you, then just vote me. But I am so tired of seeing town play lylos so much. I controlled every narrative since f7 started and if I chose this as wolf I am really dumb. But we both know, you and I, that I am not dumb.

Anyway closing the game and hoping to see f3 and not gg in 50 minutes lol.

(I am anxious)

[Cuthillius]

Katze, I am going to do a very stupid thing and be 100% with you, which will probably backfire but it's my game too.

Just vote Achro. I controlled both days of LYLO. I made SK QUAKE when I said I was going to snap vote him. I made Achro call me top tr over and over and try to placate me before snapping him early in the day where both days there is no need for any of this from w!Cuth.

If you're going to be a paranoid person who asks what if's for another 50 minutes, just vote me, I'll say ggwp to the wolves, and I can move on and it's okay. I'm a great wolf player. I get the paranoia and the worry.

But this is day 4 with 50 minutes left. The only thing you're doing now is twisting and glaring at things again and again.

It's achro. You know it's achro. Deep down. But you don't want to be wrong. If you think I have snowed you, if you think benneh has snowed you, then just vote me. But I am so tired of seeing town play lylos so much. I controlled every narrative since f7 started and if I chose this as wolf I am really dumb. But we both know, you and I, that I am not dumb.

Anyway closing the game and hoping to see f3 and not gg in 50 minutes lol.

(I am anxious)

[Cuthillius]

but i respect your decision

not mad if we lose here

idk if i'd get there in your shoes

[katze]

Katze, I am going to do a very stupid thing and be 100% with you, which will probably backfire but it's my game too.

Just vote Cuth. I controlled both days of LYLO. I made SK QUAKE when I said I was going to snap vote him. I made Cuth call me top tr over and over and try to placate me before snapping him early in the day where both days there is no need for any of this from w!Achro.

If you're going to be a paranoid person who asks what if's for another 50 minutes, just vote me, I'll say ggwp to the wolves, and I can move on and it's okay. I'm a great wolf player. I get the paranoia and the worry.

But this is day 4 with 50 minutes left. The only thing you're doing now is twisting and glaring at things again and again.

It's cuth. You know it's cuth. Deep down. But you don't want to be wrong. If you think I have snowed you, if you think winston has snowed you, then just vote me. But I am so tired of seeing town play lylos so much. I controlled every narrative since f7 started and if I chose this as wolf I am really dumb. But we both know, you and I, that I am not dumb.

Anyway closing the game and hoping to see f3 and not gg in 50 minutes lol.

(I am anxious)

apologies if it's frustrating, i'm exploring every corner before i cast a vote. it'd be unfair if i didnt. if im wrong i want it to be educated as fuck and if im right i dont want to feel like it was just a yolo yknow?

i feel for cuth and if i vote him right or wrong i want him to know why i did ig

...i did not expect it to take this long either

[katze]

anyway you're not gonna bully me into voting sooner than when i feel like im ready

im feeling the game as if you're a wolf before that happens

[Cuthillius]

i do genuinely appreciate the time and consideration you've put in regardless

i figured there was like a 99% chance the game would be over by now

[katze]

i do genuinely appreciate the time and consideration you've put in regardless

i figured there was like a 99% chance the game would be over by now

ill feel like a joycat(derogatory) if i do all of this, come to the same conclusion ive leaned the entire day, and its wrong

but thats a risk im willing to take and i dont think ill actually feel that bad about it

just islly

[nebjiamn]

ladd and dya?

me finding you as a villager doesnt... really change that much for me anyway

ya but now that i think about it i think cape is actually one of the better readers of me this game notwithstanding since i dont know what he read me as here

benneh whens the last time u randed wolf lol i legit cant find anything outside of hydra games and old ass games

moppo and pog anni 2020