13er summer game thread

[Achro]

Sorry for another movie script, insomnia. It was a genuine thought that I was going to struggle with 50 posts and while I am glad others like dya find 50 posts ‘easy’ to solve within I am not used to being capped at all, and this is by far the most restriction I have ever had in like…. 20 years playing mafia, so I apologize to town for this skill issue. Like, legitimately, I figured I would suck I am just doing my best lol

I would like Benneh to vote first today as the person in the most people’s POEs, or if there is wide spread boos to that I don’t mind voting first tbh because being wrong has been the least of my problems this game lol.

@Winston Hughes - If you dont mind humoring me for a moment, let’s operate in a world for a brief time where Benneh is flipped wolf and Katze is killed tonight as town. What would your thoughts for the final 2 partners be in that world? You’ve been on Katze since day 1, much like Taffy was on me day 1, and I think it would do the game good for you to put that read away for a little bit and explore town katze worlds.If katze is a PR they may die tonight after all, so its good to get started since we really don’t want to be voting Katze today anyway. Live in that world for a bit and lmk what you think, or if you can think of a team without katze AND benneh I guess, but those are your top two suspects so probably not. Thank you! We agree on a lot so interested to hear your thoughts.

Some cuth/katze/sk/general thoughts

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

i don't think that achro's been wildly villagery, but i think they've been villagery enough that i'm definitely not interested in going there today and feel fine about being able to figure them out down the road if need be

ladd
achro

benneh
dya
ender
katze

sk
taffy

cape
winston

visor
insomnia

neither ordered within category or particularly confident, sk/taffy are neutral and the two below aren't necessarily different in magnitude but are still different in my head somehow

i'll be sporadically phone-posting at most between now and an hour out from eod

It was about 90 minutes in between these two posts. How did I go from ‘wildly villagery’ to being one of your two strongest reads? Sorry if this seems nitpicky, but so far at 370 you kind of have been town reading me the entire time with no… real note on trying to solve with me, I guess? It feels bad in hindsight to me. Not 100% wolfy, but the only comment you’ve really made is giving me advice on how to solve better and telling me visor as a wolf wouldn’t care how prickly I was (which… not sure if that’s true, as my reasoning there turned out to be valid I just got tunneled)

alrighty ty for the info

id be pretty hyped for a benneh/katze wolfrand but id bus visor so hard u have no idea...

SPEAKING OF WHICH visor is rly wolfy uwu (this isnt a real read) (maybe???)

current worldview looks something like


REDACTED READS: Winston, katze

ladd
benneh
Taffy

Cuthillius
dyachei
insomnia*
Achro

Visor
SilverKeith

Ender
Cape*

i kinda think these two are w/v like 90% of the time

feel free to ask questions in the meantime, this is my capping post ill be back in 40 min or so glgl

@katze can you revisit what you were thinking here with your insomnia/cape comment? Why was it such a high confidence? I’ll revisit your thoughts on Insomnia as I go through but you went from this being 90%, and Insomnia being the counter wagon, to shrugyeeting SK SOD2 and I’d like to know your progression and the posts from the two after this that impacted your read the most. It’s hard to ISO and I just want to like, see your work because changing reads is fine and good but the 90% stuck out to me.

I don’t think SK has two viable partners in v!you worlds, @insomnia

Take me off the board, as you have, and yourself, that leaves winston who I think could be paired with SK in theory (at a glance) but then you have…

Katze - thought shrugyeeting was pretty dope
Benneh - who kept trying to stab SK over and over
Cuth - Who kept trying to stab SK over and over

Curious to hear your thoughts on the most likely team of those 3. Certainly anyone can wolf with anyone, and we’ll know which clues were herrings soon enough, but yesterday was a mess and it feels like a strange time to bus SK at EOD when you could go after a vulnerable town. I don’t know what w! Cuth or Katze were doing there with w! SK if Benneh is v, for instance. Both had laid a mountain of foundation to murder the FUCK out of Benneh if needed but Cuth never voted there, and Katze laid off eventually to put Visor in the lead last second which… I guess is a bit more of a maybe, but THEN you have to deal with the team being Katze/Winston/SK which feels weird but I could maybe see some “Winston is just a distraction for Katze’ but… Winston also put Katze in some real danger and tbh 3 PR for town just kinda makes sense in a 13er when scum have an extra kill so idk.

Like looking at direct play at LYLO is kind of like ‘eh’ for me, although needed and I am doing it too, but I think the test I try to look for is ‘okay, who are the partners’

I do need to know your thoughts on SK partner equity, Insomnia, because if SK is your most likely scum rn then I am not sure how much I can trust you are town because FMPOV it doesn’t make a lot of sense, and it also makes me want to trust Winston more for thinking it doesn’t make a lot of sense.

Winston’s solve of… what was it…

Katze/Benneh/Insomnia? Pretty good actually from my villager POV. Katze I disagree with in this moment but I understand how Winston got there.

Cuth/Benneh/Insomnia also I think has SOME equity, given that when you Insomnia actually got votes Cuth smashed into SK again. Insomnia you were a vanity wagon when Cuth voted you let me see…


Visor(3): SK, Taffy, insom
Benneh(3): Achro, ender, katze
SK(2): Dya, Benneh
katze(2): WH, Visor
insom(1): cuth


So let me lay out everyone’s starting intent today.

Winston: Katze/Benneh
Me: Benneh
Cuth: SK and Benneh, but specifies never yeeting benneh before SK
Insomnia: SK
Katze: Fuck Achro in particular (for legal reasons this is a joke), has been wolfing Benneh for a bit
SK: getting wasted, will decide things later (respectable)

Benneh: katze is ‘pretty goddamn wolfy’ and ‘sk’s team helped him out’, needs to re-eval SK

So Benneh is kind of repping a world of SK/Katze and either myself or Winston atp which is… a solve alright given some things that have transpired in this thread.

Would like more partner solving from Insomnia, pointing out things that could be TMI works for like, everyone who makes reads on things. I just spent some time going down cuth could be TMI’ing me town (or, he’s town and just town reading me lol)

Kind of an easy shout and idk if that’s very wolfy from SK or not.

I need to look back at day 1 and make a decision on SK specifically. Day 2 if he is a wolf people were OK with bussing him there, but day 1 Cape had so much momentum that I don’t think people want to rock the boat so let me see…

EOD1 thoughts broken down… a lot. This is the vast majority of this post. I encourage people to read through it and tell me when and where they disagree with my points on things if they do. I come out with a team at the end of it or at least two people I feel confident are not wolves ATP, which is a great start if I am right. But this is a long section, so buckle up.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Cape(4): ladd, insomnia, ender, katze
insomnia(3): SK, Achro, Cuth
Ender(2): benneh, Winston
Cuth(2): Visor, Taffy
ladd(1): Cape
Sk(1): Dya

Although it is funny that Katze said she’d have killed Insomnia if a wolf here and he was v and I kind of believe that tbh. Pretty easy to go there.

Cape(4): ladd, insomnia, ender, katze
Ender(2): benneh, , Winston
insomnia(2): SK, Achro
Visor(1): , Cuth
ladd(1): Cape,
Cuth(2): Visor, Taffy
Sk(1): Dya
Achro(0):

Hmm, Cuth voted Insomnia very last second to bring him to 1… where have I seen this before…

I should have stuck with the rp tbh, if people weren't going to be able to understand me at least I could have sounded cool.

Unrelated but based take from wolf achro for people not understanding me in general, a lot more painful as town.

Illario (4) EnderWiggin dyachei Vulgard Wisdom
Nutella (3) Cape90 Achro Syn
Wisdom (2) Raskolnikov robyn
Robyn (2) Visor Illario
dyachei (1) ladd
Lapras (1) Nutella
Raskolnikov (1) Boquise

4 minutes until EOD, all villagers are being voted.

Illario (5) EnderWiggin dyachei Vulgard Wisdom Nutella
Nutella (2) Achro Syn
Boquise (2) Cape90 robyn
Wisdom (1) Raskolnikov
Robyn (2) Visor Illario
dyachei (1) ladd
Raskolnikov (1) Boquise
Visor (1) Lapras

At 7pm I vote Boq to bring him to with one, ladd ties it but I just remain chill because I understand the thread state and know people will protect boq over illario

:00 votes good/:01 votes bad

Illario (5) EnderWiggin dyachei Vulgard Wisdom Nutella Syn
Boquise (5) Cape90 robyn Raskolnikov Achro ladd
Robyn (2) Visor Illario
Raskolnikov (1) Boquise
Visor (1) Lapras

Illario (6) EnderWiggin dyachei Vulgard Wisdom Nutella Syn
Boquise (4) Cape90 robyn Raskolnikov Achro
Robyn (2) Visor Illario
dyachei (1) ladd
Raskolnikov (1) Boquise
Visor (1) Lapras

Boq wasn’t around for EOD, and my assessment was correct - Boq was never in much genuine danger due to people’s reads. Was Insomnia in any danger from that Cuth vote? I don’t think so tbh, and so I won’t say that is unpairing atm. I need to go through Cuth’s progressions day 1 and see how they make me feel for Insomnia.


Let me walk through EOD1 again, step by step, with our actors known and unknown taking center stage.

Starting at 4:53, just before post cap lifts.

Town Visor votes Town Cape
4:56 vote tally

Cape(5): ladd, insomnia, Dyachei, katze, Visor
Katze (2): Winston, ender
Achro(1): Taffy
Winston(1): cuth
Visor(1): Cape
Taffy(1): SK
Sk(1): achro
Ender(1): benneh

Town Dya votes ??? SK

5pm, Katze reiterates the difference check between cape/insomnia which is a very strange thing to focus on when Cape is just sitting there like a duck and Insomnia is imo good at naturally just vibing along. Very strange w/w attack if it is one

Visor thinks Cuth is a wolf in 456. This doesn’t really change until cuth defends them a lot eod2. Maybe I broke visor’s brain like he broke mine and he was onto something here.

5:04 ??? Keith wonders why we are voting town cape (I share this sentiment at the time as well)
5:06 - ??? Katze votes ??? Keith
5:07 Town visor votes ??? Cuth

silverkeith is gonna write something that people dont understand and at eod he will be executed over cape and then achro will coach cape in wolfchat and theyll endgame together

a tale as old as time

Lmao what the fuck if this is a wolf tbh. This is so unhinged if katze is a wolf that I almost want it to be true.

Then I vote ladd because I wanted MAXIMUM CHAOS

5:09: ??? Winsrton votes Town Visor
5:09 Cape says Insomnia is very obviously town but also at eod thought me and ladd were a wolf so… oh boy Cape lol. Also called Ender wolfy. Oh boy Cape.

Benneh feels very uncaring about anything happening in thread right now, just vibing, no solving, just relaxed as can be. Doesn’t man wolf, but damn does it feel different than most people who are dead villagers or me lol

this, most of all, tells me cape is town

because wtf else is going on there?!

Winston defends Cape

I have killed a thousand towns and a thousand wolves. I fear no cringe. I am the embodiment of mafia justice itself.

Still true tbh, right and wrong doesn’t matter, if I lose then I just got beat nbd.

Have skimmed some of the last pages.

I like cape doing their own thing. Feels ok.

I think dya is ok. I feel like town dya would default to voting me often in this playerlist and in a game where I'm not really posting a lot, because they are really unfamiliar with me and thus I don't see them condifently putting me outside a POE ever. I'm not sure wolf dya takes this exit. Not related but Dya is prolly the player in this game I feel the most confident in reading correctly but that's a really low level of confidence which is fun and exciting.

Feels like genuine solving, not just settling for Cape

remember town: this is the same town that finds Winston is LHF and wolfy

therefore all sus on me is cringe hmmyes

Based


Reading this makes me sad day 2 went so side ways for me tbh, I had a lot of fun day 1 lol

i legitimately have no idea what you're saying

even if its purpose is to lolcat this post has not met the minimum requirements cape

No solving from benneh at all

Cape(2): ladd, insomnia
Sk(2): Dya, katze
Katze (2): ender, SK
ladd(2): Cape, achro
Achro(1): Taffy
Winston(1): cuth
Ender(1): benneh
Cuth(1): Visor
Visor(1): Winston

5:18 vote count

am i the only one that keeps confusing visor and cuth's posts?

yall should change avatars

Really making me want t believe in the cuth/benneh world lol

Katze solving EOD, SK solving EOD, ladd chilling in bed and was town so… not a difference check vs people who werent solving as much tbf

Winston defended both SK and ladd EOD from my fish attack, hm hm hm….

i am not comfortable voting ladd lol

sry if wrong, maybe ill change my mind in the next 40 min, but i feel like hes a villager fairly strongly as of now

yes i saw ur concerns, im thinking about it, i think the good outweighs the bad

Feels very genuine to me tbh

5:21 Benneh pushes town ender wagon more

No interest in Ender who is a capable mid to late game solver whose world view mostly lines up with mine, at least for day 1.
Pass.

Just remembering the good times, don’t mind me lol

Katze (3): ender, SK, Winston
Cape(2): ladd, insomnia
Sk(2): Dya, katze
ladd(2): Cape, achro
Achro(1): Taffy
Winston(1): cuth
Ender(1): benneh
Cuth(1): Visor

^^ 5:22 votes

So now we have town cape and two ??? in some form of contention. If either is scum these votes should get spicy at some point with unknowns who are alive, since we have 3 wolves in 6 players.

Katze just feels like a PR at this eod tbh lol. So if wolf, they picked their spot well.

Also not sure it makes much sense for katze to claim PR here. I was claimed nilla but I think everyone else didn’t claim, and we have at most one PR left and 3 does make sense to me with scum having a poisoner so idk if poisoner and two goons vs MD and vig even makes sense or not. I don’t know standard 13er setups tbh. KP seems really strong though.

5:24 - Cuth votes SK, bringing him to a tie with Katze at 3. Real hard time seeing them paired

5:25 SK, tied with Katze for the lead, feels very selective in their vote agreeing with ladd that we shouldn’t go for Katze or Cape

nope

In response to benneh saying they confuse visor/cuth posts. Would be pretty cute if the team is exactly cuth/insomnia/benneh ngl

im getting the feeling i accidentally skipped one or did not fully digest your wallpost.

Based and town probably lol

I've backread a bit and I don't want to lunch taffy, mostly because I think their post building structure makes them a player that's possible to read for me.

Good take

5:27 votals

Katze (3): ender, SK, Winston
Sk(3): Dya, katze, cuth
Cape(2): ladd, insomnia
ladd(1): achro
Achro(1): Taffy
Ender(1): benneh
Cuth(1): Visor
Visor(1): Cape


About half way through EOD and I detect zero agenda from either SK or Katze btw. Both feel like they are fucking CONFUSED which feels about right.

idk im just kinda skimming and don't have a clue

some things he's doing feel overblown for me. like saying winston will be found as lhf and wolfy when most of the thread found him villagery already feels fake, unless i missed some posts where people were debating killing him

Not really a firm stance for someone voting Cape and also Insomnia isn’t pushing any other ideas really, whereas others are.

i mean sure let's talk about it

you think he's a wolf who's just stonewalling every time he's asked for clarification? it's not like he hasn't been in thread a fair number of times, and i think he would just feel more pressure to actually say stuff (anything) if he was w

Ender probably not wolf

i like winston more than i did earlier

kinda concerned about benneh and by extension ladd a little bit but also think the ladd wagon here is absolutely bonkers

the size and wobbliness of the poe concerns me

Concerned about benneh

vote: benneh

Votes Benneh

vote: benneh

stop trying to kill my town reads tbh

I IMMEDIATELY follow up after seeing this because I am hard town reading ender at this point

cape, how come katze is such an obv villager now? last time i checked you were conflicted

Wolfy as fuck post, milord

i'm presenting in a meeting that starts in 4 mins so i prob won't be able to change my vote as we get to eod

will prob stay on ender here unless there' more clarity in the next few mins

Okay so Benneh had to miss the last 30 minutes for work stuff, that makes sense and is of course NAI, so Benneh started the ender wagon (town) and then had to peace, np np aside from the obvious problems unrelated to absence.

Anyway at 5:32 these are the votes posted by Rask

Benneh(3): Winston, cuth, Achro
Sk(2): Dya, katze
Katze (2): ender, SK
Cape(2): ladd, insomnia
Achro(1): Taffy
Ender(1): benneh
Cuth(1): Visor
Visor(1): Cape

Benneh has taken the lead, which makes me happy in my current world view, let’s see how this plays out.

vote: achro

wahoo

But… why? He has called me town all day and I just put one of his suspects in the lead by agreeing that ender was probably town. Huh?

oop i forgot to bold my vote

vote: ender

vote: taffy

teehee

Cuth seems to be having fun, which I am all for, but not really sure where the solving is coming from. In contrast to katze and SK, who feel like they are pulling their hair out.

think im good with voting cape still, i took a look back and checked

still feel the same way about his reads. even in this position he doesn't seem to have a strong reason for a wolf read

he's voted 2 people on the basis of "i feel you are a wolf"

Very, imo, mechanical reasoning. Robotic. I don’t feel the thoughts here (this could be genuine, just stating my pov) like this is a … idk, generic reason to find someone wolfy? ‘Reasonable’ but it turned out to be not true, you know?

i'm actually just confused now

but the volatility here is funny

I don’t know what Cuth is confused about, they don’t ask questions and they don’t post much int he way of EOD progression.

SK calls out Insomnia for the post that I too think is wolfy AF above and votes them at 5:37. This is in my eyes never W/W based on the angle SK took here. This felt reactionary and if this is the pairing I’d be super impressed.

vote: insomnia

sheeping SK

okay now I am gone

(my spider sense agrees)

Based (maybe)

katze being at the same place they were a while ago is wolf indicative of them yesyes mhmmm

Keith going to check on Katze’s reads during EOD feels towny from SK, like he is actively solving and going back and checking things.




As soon as I vote Benneh to put him in the lead, mere minutes later Cuth votes off Benneh and onto Ender… huh? What is the progression here? It certainly isn’t stated in topic. What happened here?

I've liked what Cuth has to say but not vibing with his votes

Okay I just… idk. This is such a good take in hindsight. YES Cuth’s words sound good, but NO their votes are all really bad lol. Like… I think EOD1 is really convincing me on SK being town tbh.

Insomnia and Cuth have a conversation at 5:41 on cape that sounds like nothing, and also Cuth feels like they dont have much suspicion for Insomnia atp.

the timing or the content? because i think i've voted over half the playerlist in the last ten minutes

Both? I'm not sure what your actual reads are, but saw you voting me and taffy and idk who else which was hmmm

SK feels genuinely probing here tbh

Then at 5:44 Cuth votes Visor for seemingly no reason

5:45 vote list

Cape(3): ladd, insomnia, ender
Ender(2): benneh, katze
insomnia(2): SK, Achro
Visor(2): Cape, Cuth
Katze (1): Winston
Sk(1): Dya
Achro(1): Taffy
Cuth(1): Visor

out of this eod I think ladd/cape are town.

I'm ok with Dya town. I'm currently ok with Achro being town.

Taffy maybe town

This man is reppiing a 5/5 town list eod1 lol

why?

To Insomnia saying ender will have more votes, it just feels unpairing af lol

Then Ender (town) votes ??? Insomnia at 5:47

Town visor defends insomnia. Town ladd defends insomnia

insomnia(3): SK, Achro, ender
Cape(2): ladd, insomnia
Ender(2): benneh, katze
Visor(2): Cape, Cuth
Katze (1): Winston
Sk(1): Dya
Achro(1): Taffy
Cuth(1): Visor

Then…



5:51 - Cuth votes Cape. Which is… weird, right? Because 10 minutes or so earlier Cuth was defending Cape TO Insomnia who was the leading wagon. So if you think Insomnia is off base, why vote Cape 10 minutes later? It’s such strange progression for someone who puts a lot of thought into their words and sounds thoughtful.
5:51 - Katze says maybe cape is maybe towny?

i'm not really feeling it

unless like benneh is wolfing or something

Cuth connects wolf benneh to wolf katze, which doesn’t make much sense for benneh/cuth/katze worlds but makes a ot of sense for v!katze wolf benneh/cuth worlds

towny post from visor regardless of achro alignment imo

I believe SK believes this tbh

5:55 votes

Cape(4): ladd, insomnia, Cuth, ender
insomnia(2): SK, Achro
Ender(2): benneh, katze
ladd(1): Cape
Katze (1): Winston
Sk(1): Dya
Achro(1): Taffy
Cuth(1): Visor

5:56 he votes Ender which is why Ender claimed PR. Then back to Visor for reasons I don’t know (I am sure he said something prior to EOD, I just dont know them)

Katze votes Cape which is a reasonable vote from town there too, matches world view and uncertainty

Taffy votes Cuth

5:59 votes


6:00 votes

Cape(4): ladd, insomnia, ender, katze
Ender(2): benneh, , Winston
insomnia(2): SK, Achro
Visor(1): , Cuth
ladd(1): Cape,
Cuth(2): Visor, Taffy
Sk(1): Dya
Achro(0):

Just after Cuth sneaks in a vote for insomnia and after its just a handful of glgl messages so this vote was likely placed in the last 30 seconds or so. It just didn’t matter at all.

So, let's talk about my CURRENT solve, and the steps I am going be taking to see if the rest of the thread confirms it or debunks it.

My conclusion based off of both EODs is that Cuth's EOD voting agenda shielded Insomnia day 1 contrary to their world view as stated, and then did the same thing with Benneh day 2. I am going to look at more things but as of THIS moment if looks like to me Cuth is a savvy wolf who spun good yarns with their words but in actuality always at the end of the day made sure Benneh and Insomnia were not in any danger of dying, despite a lot of world view perspective (and me offering to murder benneh over their top town read day 2, visor). It's very contradictory, and directly implicates Benneh and Insomnia. Now, either one of these could be misdirection of course but I also notice it is LYLO and although lots of words are thrown about these 3 started today pushing the same agenda.

"Katze is wolfy AF, but SK I mean SK is what it is, right?" is the sense I got from benneh. Pretending to care about katze first, probably to make Winston happy in their Katze tunnel, and if Winston murdered Katze then all the better no mess no fuss, but if there was push back on Katze no problem, we've got SK.

Insomnia - "SK is like, lock scum." Cool, straight forward, simple.

Cuth - "Benneh... god I want you so dead! Like... grrr... but I'll always kill SK before you in lylo :)"

As opposed to Winston, who feels a lot like Taffy did this game where they got a tunnel early and if I was wolf katze would have said 'fuck it', killed winston 100%, and just moved on with life tbh. I also think Katze has posted very well this game and think taffy might be overestimating their wolf range a bit in paranoia (or I am wrong)

But SK... just had nothing but good takes that added up and felt like there was no agenda EOD1 lol. Just, all good takes and asking the right questions to people who now need to be his wolf buddies and I just aint seeing it. Which is a bit of Winston's world view too, which also makes me trust winston is maybe just tunneled on katze a bit.

I still have a lot of things to look over, including sitting down and continuing to read the thread, but based off EOD voting and LYLO Agenda if you squint these 3 have a lot of equity together.

Sorry for the huge post, I told you I would struggle with 50 posts a day. A legitimate skill issue.

[Winston Hughes]

If you dont mind humoring me for a moment, let’s operate in a world for a brief time where Benneh is flipped wolf and Katze is killed tonight as town. What would your thoughts for the final 2 partners be in that world? You’ve been on Katze since day 1, much like Taffy was on me day 1, and I think it would do the game good for you to put that read away for a little bit and explore town katze worlds.If katze is a PR they may die tonight after all, so its good to get started since we really don’t want to be voting Katze today anyway. Live in that world for a bit and lmk what you think, or if you can think of a team without katze AND benneh I guess, but those are your top two suspects so probably not. Thank you! We agree on a lot so interested to hear your thoughts

since i don't think it's you, there's only one team it can be without katze and benneh

if benneh is wolf and katze isn't, that leaves 2 out of sk, cuth, and insomnia; insomnia trying to get sk chopped last night would seem unlikely there, so i figure it's cuth in both worlds; the remaining two, meh, flip a coin at this point (i mean, i could do some reading back, and maybe i will, but i don't feel like it right now)

[Achro]

since i don't think it's you, there's only one team it can be without katze and benneh

if benneh is wolf and katze isn't, that leaves 2 out of sk, cuth, and insomnia; insomnia trying to get sk chopped last night would seem unlikely there, so i figure it's cuth in both worlds; the remaining two, meh, flip a coin at this point (i mean, i could do some reading back, and maybe i will, but i don't feel like it right now)

If you don't feel like reading back I went over eod1 and eod2 in my history in spoilers so you can just read that with my commentary. I break down most of the major posts and votes between the alive people, you can always double check my work by reading back but it's all there for you as well as a lot of SOD2 stuff where I discuss a possible narrative against SK that makes me think SK is just unlikely.

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