13er summer game thread

[Achro]

@nebjiamn okay, my next question since from your POV you know you're a villager, why doesn't w!Cuth vote you ever at eod2? You were actually tied with visor, a hard town read, at 3-3 and he had repped suspicion in such a way that I felt a vote on you was easy - I even asked him to vote for you but he never voted for you, instead opting to push on hypothetical w!SK. Also, today, at lylo, instead of pushing for you for the game ending ML (and you being my strongest scum read as a villager, it'd probably be pretty easy to set that up) why do you think he is still trying to say that he'd go SK before you? I know it's just speculation somewhat but I need some help even if it is just speculative, because I can't think of a reason that's not 'you're a wolf.' Which, if you're town, is 100% my skill issue I grant you so I don't mind reaching out and asking for your imagination.

Anyone can answer this by the way. If you look at my big post about EOD2 I don't see any reason why w!cuth busses w!sk there and never votes v!benneh when v!benneh is in the lead and w!cuth has a wonderful opportunity to follow me onto benneh and hard push a strong village player out of the game and cozy up to the vig at the same time.

SOD 2, let's look for living player Agenda! and tbh I will probably read a lot of day 2 and quote my three suspects and see if they ever do anything that I find unpairing, and if they do I can re-eval katze/winston some more or if I just ship it.

Visor votes me, and honestly I wish he had shot me lol

will probs not be super active today for irl reasons that are non alignment indicative and i will probably get annoyed if someone were to imply otherwise so please dont
@EnderWiggin you need to hardclaim your PR and results if applicable asap
@insomnia im probably sheeping you today and killing you tonight if we ML today, glgl

Insomnia post by Katze matches their EOD thoughts about how they think Insomnia could very well be wolfing in town cape worlds.

if you say so, even night vigilante in a game with a poisoner

idk why you’d even react like this tho, i had ender / ladd villas and had the same wolf guess as ladd did

Insomnia is like, legitimately trembling at katze suspecting them lol. This feels so not paired. Like if it's katze/insomnia hats off tbh, but the tone feels genuinely concerned to me (note: I was joking about the trembling part)

probably going to go back and reread later tonight with more info but i skimmed a bit after the flip and i was not a fan of silverkeiths eod at all

kinda hedgy on cape but no defense. i didn't like the insomnia wagon he spun up or how he was kinda ignoring ender despite ender being in his poe. i note he asked me for clarity on 'why ender' and also pushed back on insomnia about ender receiving votes for his eod posting

idk felt like undue scrutiniy on a poe vote maybe laced with tmi?

Benneh/SK never w/w and this feels like wolf agenda given what I now know about SK's EOD - he wasn't very hedgy, he asked why the Cape wagon took off, started the counter wagon, and then asked us not to info chop before going 'I guess it's fine.' That's not hedgy at all, if SK is a wolf and benneh town then he has done a not great job here of making me feel this attack lands. Which happens at times of course, maybe I am very skill issue'd on SK, but it doesn't feel like it from my vantage point given the facts.

The quotes Benneh pulls from SK are like... fine lol.

Like Benneh votes Ender, but suddenly has a problem with SK not liking Ender?

yes lol

see quotes above

it felt like there was a focus on you for defense despite him being in your poe

meanwhile i think he just kinda pushed insom outta nowhere?

it looks good if insomnia is wolf but without knowing fmpov it just feels off. maybe like a wolf wanting to be 'right'

similar with cape maybe

The bold is a misrep. SK's quote says this:

The only thing I have to say about ender is that he townread me for my wall which sucked and he shouldn't know me that much to townread me for it but i'm biased about this.

SK was explaining his take on ender, not ender's take on him. Now it could just be a coincidence that this happened and benneh is town, but it's really sloppy work if so and in my current POE I don't have a lot of room for mistakes rn. It's more easily explained by a blatant misrep and wolf agenda than it is a simple 'oops'

tinfoiling achro / sk w/w because they both picked up on my lvl 0 wolfy post and stuck to it despite all the content out there

had a recent game where myself and a wolf partner pinged out a wolfy post by a villager in almost the same exact way

SK is wolf agenda from Insomnia to start day 2. Just need Cuth for the trifecta.

ya i gave this a thought too

the volatility of achros reads (e.g. his reverse on SK after wanting him dead up til EOD) also bugged me but i could see that being more town indicative tbh. thoughts?

they do this a lot. talk back and forth in thread pushing what is now clearly wolf-sided agenda lol

ok, but i was doing it all day. why change at EoD?

thought i was ~fine, in your words

lol. What a wolfy post tbh

idk what comment about a PR claim

i said it was obvious that ender was a PR after he claimed and that cuth was wolfy for voting him in that spot

Wonder if this is ever followed up on.

feels like 1 in katze / achro

and then 2 in sk / cuth / winston / i’ll think of it later

Okay, that's Insomnia's early day 2 world view

vote: silverkeith

seems like i can sleepwalk another lunch

seething hatred etc

i mean i was voting everyone

and i don't think i was saying much meaningful by that point

@Cuthillius but... why were you voting everyone?

i remember at at least one point voting him because i liked the people voting him

and i didn't feel great about other votes either

at no point did the thought of pr stuff cross my mind but i usually don't really notice those things very well at the best of times

i think my subconscious tries to will mountainous into existence every game until it can't possibly do so

This.. shouldn't be able to be true, I think. You had said earlier day 1 you didn't care for benneh much, and benneh was one of two voting Ender. Can you please explain when you voted who it was on Ender that you liked? This doesn't add up to me.


On the flip side, I have to acknowledge that a team of SK/Winston/? is viable and in that case these two have just completely snowed me tbh

can sk/insomnia be w/w?

One of a wolf's favorite hobbies is trying a wolf buddy to a townie, which one is which who knows for sure~

bottom of my reads because i had villa-ish reads on the rest of the player list but they were not below my 3 primary wolf reads who were taffy/ender/cape

i was far more interested in pursuing ender and taffy at the time of the post. as day moved on taffy felt more villagery on their return so i focused on ender

i'm not sure what i woulda done if i was a little more prsent at eod but c'est la vie and all

0/4 on their day 1 pushes, we'll see about SK.

i think ladd died cuz he would’ve re-eval’d and to put more sus on taffy

This is funny in hindsight because almost no one sussed taffy the entire day 2 lol

Ender was obviously a PR for anyone paying attention, and cuth put him ahead

i made that post more as a heat of the moment thing tho

cuth is wolfy

okay thats a lie i skimmed some of katzes and achros posts

90%

80% on a bad day

very cool solving technique tbh

I remember the time I wanted to solve with ender because I felt lost. Then it didnt happen. Then he fpsed instead. I hate everything day 2 tbh. Miserable day.

Vote: Achro

I changed my mind.

Also my townread on Taffy can be down to "I liked the way they got stuck on the wolfread on Achro and they make sense to me rn."

Yeah I hate day 2. All my homies hate day 2. Trying to solve with my strongest TR into my strongest TR voting me with no real reason given pretty much broke my brain tbh. Skill issue, honestly.


Achro(3): katze, Achro, Taffy
SK(1): Visor
Benneh(1): Ender

Did scum just, leave me the fuck alone all game? lol

Maybe.

sk / katze / +1

@insomnia can you please explain what happened to cuth? You mentioned his voting being wolfy but atp you go from sussing him to thinking more of sk/katze and curious as to progression and what posts from the three in between sod and then moved needles for you.

sk/visor/katze gg ur done

benneh/insomnia mindmelding a bit

God, I sucked day 2. Even if I got it wrong today I at least feel like I am making sense. Day 2 was a bad day tbh

I'll leave with this post again, as a real highlight.

okay i have a lot of thoughts but i should really be doing other stuff right now so i will try to distill

i feel moderately strongly that benneh/katze are wolves together lol

main points:

-benneh just wasn't very villagery d1? he was kinda floating around and in particular i think the way in which he was pushing ender all day looks kinda gross in retrospect (well before the possibility of pr stuff i think?)
-katze randomly reads benneh strong v off vibes and basically keeps him there all the way through
--at one point earlyish on benneh makes an offhand jokey comment about this but doesn't really push back or follow through much at all; it's a very sort of i should acknowledge this but actually don't mind it kind of post
-both of them, but especially benneh, are very message-boost-y wrt ladd-- iirc all three of them had more or less the same exact readslist, though iirc benneh was like yeah same but a couple of these names would be lower on mine
-in that context ladd nk would make a lot of sense to cement some level of consensus in the thread and codify his takes before he had chances to reevaluate later, plus there weren't really many super hard clear villagers at that point
-both of them (more so katze) had relatively nuanced reads but at the end of the day basically were always gonna end up on cape/achro/ender, and neither really pushed very hard elsewhere, though there were some meaningless votes thrown around in various directions
--granted this is not unique to either of them but fits the overall narrative wrt ladd stuff and general direction
-also both of them are very shruggy towards sk yeet today in a pretty non-committal way

anyway those are my thoughts i think benneh looks a bit worse than katze but i think he makes the most sense with katze that is all goodbye for now

But just... never votes Benneh eod2. Busses SK supposedly? Starts an insomnia vanity but hops off when it reaches 3? I... just can't find the villager progression at all either EOD.

vote: insomnia

sup

you wolfing?

Like he'll say this, but then nothing ever comes out of it and despite these two posts day 2 day 3 his statement is 'yeeting SK first'

If he is a wolf, why bus SK? If he's town, why so inconsistent with messaging and votes? You had two prime targets that you set up beautifully that were gaining traction EOD in Benneh, never vote, and Insomnia, you vote away from it when he takes the lead.

and frankly SK/Cuth would be some insane theater at EOD in a EOD where SK just sounded more right about things in a genuine way. Like he was asking questions, solving, real timing very well.

My shit tier read on Achro is that he's V because he wouldn't catch himself saying stuff like "yeah I owned SK that time he wolfed in champs" and then proceed to missread me here at the start of the game.

Like, wolf achro's image of what town achro would do is obv read me correctly as a villager even if i'm just w/e'ing a wallpost. His missread of me is genuine imo. Or he faked it absurdly well but i've seen achro be deadass wrong and I've thought to myself "he can't fake being this wrong" and I was right.

based take, honestly

Not seeing a lot of evidence it's not the team I think it is, but willing to be convinced if Winston or Katze want to weigh in.

[nebjiamn]

i don't think w!cuth has the guts to mislunch me to be completely honest

i have been mislunched once in my life (not incl turbos ofc lol) and it was because i had amrock on ignore for 5 years

so some combo of cuth getting cold feet because he knows how hard i would make my elimination if i actually felt i was a threat to die (note: i had some votes yestrday but at no point did i think i was dying over SK or insomnia ... but then we also lunched visor so what do i know) and also how bad he'd look if i actually died there over someone like SK who he was also pushing since the thread consensus around SK was way more wolf around him than me + my rep

its a losing move for cuth to vote me out because silverkeith still probly dies (and even if thats not true, from cuth's pov it probably would be if he's bussing), he loses all v cred he earned earlier and he probly dies, and if thats 2 of the 3 wolves, the other wolf is either katze or winston and its 50/50 at best if that team can win in f3 and thats if its katze in f3

[nebjiamn]

"The bold is a misrep. SK's quote says this:"

its not a misrep at all

ender was in silverkeiths POE. when peopel talked ender he'd then ask "Why ender?" (paraphrasing) and dismiss the reasoning. this was the only person he did this around at EOD1 that was in his POE and i think its indicative of TMI

the post you quoted from SK doesnt really have anything to do with whwt i was saying

[nebjiamn]

i also think you're weighting too heavily how SK pushed back against the cape lunch

cape being lunched was a foregone conclusion. (yes, this is true despite ender having to claim, because everyone thought cape was dead meat day 1 and wolves probably ESPECIALLY thought/knew this). the easiest and laziest post for wolves to make at EOD is defense for a villager thats always dying. what did sk really do to ensure cape didn't die? that was my point. he could have had a much bigger impact if that was his true belief but it wasn't. he mad ejust enough waves to suspect someone else and still have cape die. that is way wolfier than someone being convinced cape was just a wolf

[SilverKeith]

"The bold is a misrep. SK's quote says this:"

its not a misrep at all

ender was in silverkeiths POE. when peopel talked ender he'd then ask "Why ender?" (paraphrasing) and dismiss the reasoning. this was the only person he did this around at EOD1 that was in his POE and i think its indicative of TMI

the post you quoted from SK doesnt really have anything to do with whwt i was saying

It is a misrep (tho not really one I can fault ppl for making) when you consider the reason Ender was in my POE.

Even if someone is in my poe I'd like to know the reason why they are being pushed. So I asked. And then you asnwered. And then I decided those reasons were bad. And I was correct.

I think winston is funny and have liked their style so my current poe is made of all the ppl I've had nothing to say about (Visor/Benneh/Ender/Insom) + Taffy who has apparently posted and I should prolly read.

I'm not very good at finding wolves (most of the time) so I try to find villagers and POE the wolves. Ender was in my poe yes but I had literally nother against him other than he hadn't townpingued me.

[nebjiamn]

It is a misrep (tho not really one I can fault ppl for making) when you consider the reason Ender was in my POE.

Even if someone is in my poe I'd like to know the reason why they are being pushed. So I asked. And then you asnwered. And then I decided those reasons were bad. And I was correct.



I'm not very good at finding wolves (most of the time) so I try to find villagers and POE the wolves. Ender was in my poe yes but I had literally nother against him other than he hadn't townpingued me.

now you're misrepping me (or now i'm realizing i worded it poorly)

my issue is not specifically that you asked why ender was pushed, its that ender was the only one from those in your poe you showed such care about

plus that, by stating you disagreed with why he was being pushed you're showing that you need something beyond just them being in your poe, and taht is 100% fine, but what was the progression and why were you pushing on insomnia at eod? why didn't you push harder on me or visor or at least look more into us?

THATS my point. your posts read like you cared about being right, not trying to figure out things or push them. 'dont kill cape' but didnt try very hard to save him. 'why ender?' an then disagree with the reasoning but not really try to diffuse the wagon. etc

[SilverKeith]

now you're misrepping me (or now i'm realizing i worded it poorly)

my issue is not specifically that you asked why ender was pushed, its that ender was the only one from those in your poe you showed such care about

plus that, by stating you disagreed with why he was being pushed you're showing that you need something beyond just them being in your poe, and taht is 100% fine, but what was the progression and why were you pushing on insomnia at eod? why didn't you push harder on me or visor or at least look more into us?

THATS my point. your posts read like you cared about being right, not trying to figure out things or push them. 'dont kill cape' but didnt try very hard to save him. 'why ender?' an then disagree with the reasoning but not really try to diffuse the wagon. etc

I showed care about him bc it seemed like ppl were interested in voting him.

I pushed harder on insom than visor or you because Insom said something I didn't like and thought it was wolfy. I didn't receive such wolfpings for visor nor you.

I didn't care about being right I just happened to be . My poe there has at least 3 dead villagers and from your pov maybe 4 if you're town.
And even then I was only right on cape, because re:ender he just happened to claim and I had somewhat of a refusal to commiting to a solid ender read since he snowed me on our last game here.

I was never "defending" cape because I do not play like that. I'm not a pro-active player of the game unless the game really needs me to be one. Plus I had skimemd a decent part of the game and didn't really get why ppl were disliking cape other than "his posts are bad" which is something I never agreed on and I saw him in a spot I had seen other villas before (trying to solve regardless of the outcome).

I'm not saving cape there unless I was super confident on him being town. And seeing the opinion of other players who know cape best and had a better grasp at the game than me, saying cap was scummy, I obviously wasn't really confident on that read, so I said I was ok with his lunch.

If you're town you're just projecting what you'd do in my position I think. Because none of the things you had problems with say "wolf!sk" to me. Tho I'm obviously biased in that view lol.

[nebjiamn]

last post kind of brings me to another tangential point, not about sk, but just about myself for a second

I WAS AGAINST CAPE BEING DEAD MEAT MID D1 back when there wasn't really, imo, a reason to wolf read him

everyone just kinda thougth it was cape after he had like 8 posts that i didnt think were alignment indicative and i did not want that to be how D1 rolled out and pushed against it because i am a big proponent of ensuring we have valuable day 1s by not pushing too hard too early on too little

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

ignore the part that capes posts got wolfy after this and i conceded he's a fine lunch. im only talking about the parts before that thanks :):):)

katze was a big proponent pushing the idea that cape was just dying d1 despite not believing in it so they're probly a

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

dork

[nebjiamn]

game related, but not actually game related. meta stuff re: cape

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

as an aside but i don't think cape was the 'designated lunch decided pre-game' like everyone was saying and i wish ppl would stop saying that in general

cape was the n1 kill and an obvious villager the last game i played on the org. that was such a weird thing to posit about him always being the d1 here

turns out cape didn't have the same wim/vigor as that game and thats fine but to assume he couldn't post well enough to not be the d1 regardless of alignment when he'd previously done so in a similarly stacked playerlist was like, super disrespectful to cape and also just wrong lol

ily donut boy

[Achro]

This is post 40, I'll just say that I am not really convinced on the merit of some of your arguments as Cuth does not strike me as being afraid of much in tone. Can you, possibly, link me a wolf cuth game? I would like to read it over. If not, I will try to find one on my own.

However, I don't know you at all so perhaps this all makes sense to the rest of the lobby who has played with you before. I will let them weigh in and enjoy my Sunday doing random things, I have pretty much done all of the solo solving that I think I can atp and I need everyone else to fact/sanity check me.

However I genuinely just... don't get the SK post we disagree on. You say SK was relying on Ender's defense of him (SK), but to me the post from SK is like... clear shade on Ender for tring him too lightly.

I think tbf you might be right about the cape stuff in general not being very AI, as there was a lot of movement around that. It's not the 'what' SK did with the Cape stuff, but the 'how' that I like more - especially obviously in wolf Insomnia worlds which I think you discount atm.

SK is a very skilled wolf, granted, and I will probably take the day to glance at some SK EODs as both alignments to see if I can sniff out anything in terms of his usual MO.

But, with the meta stuff and 'Cuth would be afraid of me' I can't take that any further due to lack of experience, sorry to say.

Sorry, regardless of your alignment, I know I can come off as dismissive sometimes but I don't mean it.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

No really I am autistic and I say things very directly as both alignments (but I probably creative write more as wolf which is why people tend to let me go because I am purposefully being deceitful) because if I don't I will go on endless adventures of words, if you haven't noticed, so I have learned to try to be super direct but I love re-evaluating this is my favorite part of my town game as you can see from cuth top town -> most wolf even if wrong, I dont mind re-evaling lol. Also I have been a bad villager more times than most people have total mafia games played, one more won't hurt me any so if I am skill issued sorry, I am much more concerned with my reaction to being hard tunneled for two days for reasons that broke my brain, that was imo the only unacceptable action I took this game.

[nebjiamn]

This is post 40, I'll just say that I am not really convinced on the merit of some of your arguments as Cuth does not strike me as being afraid of much in tone. Can you, possibly, link me a wolf cuth game? I would like to read it over. If not, I will try to find one on my own.

However, I don't know you at all so perhaps this all makes sense to the rest of the lobby who has played with you before. I will let them weigh in and enjoy my Sunday doing random things, I have pretty much done all of the solo solving that I think I can atp and I need everyone else to fact/sanity check me.

However I genuinely just... don't get the SK post we disagree on. You say SK was relying on Ender's defense of him (SK), but to me the post from SK is like... clear shade on Ender for tring him too lightly.

I think tbf you might be right about the cape stuff in general not being very AI, as there was a lot of movement around that. It's not the 'what' SK did with the Cape stuff, but the 'how' that I like more - especially obviously in wolf Insomnia worlds which I think you discount atm.

SK is a very skilled wolf, granted, and I will probably take the day to glance at some SK EODs as both alignments to see if I can sniff out anything in terms of his usual MO.

But, with the meta stuff and 'Cuth would be afraid of me' I can't take that any further due to lack of experience, sorry to say.

Sorry, regardless of your alignment, I know I can come off as dismissive sometimes but I don't mean it.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

No really I am autistic and I say things very directly as both alignments (but I probably creative write more as wolf which is why people tend to let me go because I am purposefully being deceitful) because if I don't I will go on endless adventures of words, if you haven't noticed, so I have learned to try to be super direct but I love re-evaluating this is my favorite part of my town game as you can see from cuth top town -> most wolf even if wrong, I dont mind re-evaling lol. Also I have been a bad villager more times than most people have total mafia games played, one more won't hurt me any so if I am skill issued sorry, I am much more concerned with my reaction to being hard tunneled for two days for reasons that broke my brain, that was imo the only unacceptable action I took this game.

i can't recall any cuth wolf games off top of my head, i can only recall a few villager ones

both times he was PR and lightly suspected/POE'd by day 2 and then he'd claim

confbias: the fact that he's been v read so much this game means he must be wolf based off meta :wowee:

but for real, my reasoning about him not having the guts isn't a meta read on him, just his personality wise + my ego

also we're cool, sorry i was a dick in response tbh i was just frustrated

[nebjiamn]

for complete clarity its not 'cuth is afraid of me' more than its 'idt cuth has the wherewithal to really push me thru when the other option is much easier and achieves more for his wincon in the longrun'

guts probly not the right word choice

[Cuthillius]

i am afraid of you

[nebjiamn]

i am afraid of you

just like we rehearsed it in wolf chat, nicely done

[insomnia]

i'd prefer if we didn't wait until the last second cuz i want time to read between the cross

i just don't really know who should vote and it feels weird to appoint someone to do it early too

[Cuthillius]

i'd prefer if we didn't wait until the last second cuz i want time to read between the cross

i just don't really know who should vote and it feels weird to appoint someone to do it early too

i would really appreciate at least some time today to figure things out in my brain because i was super duper busy yesterday and also things are weird and different