13er summer game thread

[nebjiamn]

i am afraid of you

just like we rehearsed it in wolf chat, nicely done

[insomnia]

i would really appreciate at least some time today to figure things out in my brain because i was super duper busy yesterday and also things are weird and different

obviously, hopefully it'll get down like T-5h mark max

[Winston Hughes]

reminder that i have to vote at least ~6 hours before eod

[Winston Hughes]

@Achro

before you run out of posts until after i've voted, who exactly do you want me to vote for here?

(not saying i'll sheep it, but i'd at least like the option)

[Achro]

@Achro

before you run out of posts until after i've voted, who exactly do you want me to vote for here?

(not saying i'll sheep it, but i'd at least like the option)

Confidence order atm:

Cuth (their words and eod vote patterns are a wolf almost every time imo, their agenda can be debated among suspects but this I feel rings true) >> Benneh >> Insomnia

I would like no other votes placed than these 3, in that order unless you can reconcile how Cuth's EOD votes and thoughts before EOD can come from a town member, and explain it to me. Because I am atp baffled and completely do not see any progression or consistency in how he chose to apply his votes other than 'not benneh and not insomnia at key times' which can be somehow agenda with one of them being town, 'i guess', but it just all feels super agenda'd and the fact that our common tr SK picked up on it makes me feel good about them from my world view sine we saw the same things.

If it's the theoretical team of you/sk/? I am so getting snowed rn reading back lol. Wont even deny it.

[Winston Hughes]

If you dont mind humoring me for a moment, let’s operate in a world for a brief time where Benneh is flipped wolf and Katze is killed tonight as town. What would your thoughts for the final 2 partners be in that world? You’ve been on Katze since day 1, much like Taffy was on me day 1, and I think it would do the game good for you to put that read away for a little bit and explore town katze worlds.If katze is a PR they may die tonight after all, so its good to get started since we really don’t want to be voting Katze today anyway. Live in that world for a bit and lmk what you think, or if you can think of a team without katze AND benneh I guess, but those are your top two suspects so probably not. Thank you! We agree on a lot so interested to hear your thoughts

since i don't think it's you, there's only one team it can be without katze and benneh

if benneh is wolf and katze isn't, that leaves 2 out of sk, cuth, and insomnia; insomnia trying to get sk chopped last night would seem unlikely there, so i figure it's cuth in both worlds; the remaining two, meh, flip a coin at this point (i mean, i could do some reading back, and maybe i will, but i don't feel like it right now)

[Achro]

since i don't think it's you, there's only one team it can be without katze and benneh

if benneh is wolf and katze isn't, that leaves 2 out of sk, cuth, and insomnia; insomnia trying to get sk chopped last night would seem unlikely there, so i figure it's cuth in both worlds; the remaining two, meh, flip a coin at this point (i mean, i could do some reading back, and maybe i will, but i don't feel like it right now)

If you don't feel like reading back I went over eod1 and eod2 in my history in spoilers so you can just read that with my commentary. I break down most of the major posts and votes between the alive people, you can always double check my work by reading back but it's all there for you as well as a lot of SOD2 stuff where I discuss a possible narrative against SK that makes me think SK is just unlikely.

42

[SilverKeith]

so far sk's posts are bad, but it's not like he's getting into deep waters yet

i'll reserve my points until after i see him do some actual work

I know you're saying "Ill reserve my points after he posts work" but that just sounds like "I'll see where he's wrong in his solve and drill into that for people to see".

You think my posts so far are bad... explain then. Tell me exactly why do you think are bad.

Because just saying my posts are bad is so... meaningless, empty, nonsensical. It doesn't mean anything at all I post like shit as both alignment and I can craft well made and reasonable posts and views as either alignment either. I won't say it isn't AI, because it is sometimes, but it seems like you're so focused on keeping up the narrative that you're just mindlessly repeating it.

Like, you talk about me but what you've done this eod that is definitely villagery? It seems to me like you are a wolf who already knows he has won because one of cuth/benneh/whoever is a villager who's never reconciliating with town!sk idea and never reevaluating.

This goes to @Cuthillius @nebjiamn too. Explain why I'm currently a wolf in your worldviews.

Also yeah Insom my secret vote was you but I'm interested in knowing why you thought that?

[SilverKeith]

I'll vote in like, an hour or so if everyone's ok with that.

[Winston Hughes]

I'll vote in like, an hour or so if everyone's ok with that.

wait, sorry, why are you doing that?

[Achro]

I'll vote in like, an hour or so if everyone's ok with that.

Please comment on my Cuth thoughts, Insomnia is my third strongest wolf read and it would make today hard for me if you vote there just fyi.

[SilverKeith]

"The bold is a misrep. SK's quote says this:"

its not a misrep at all

ender was in silverkeiths POE. when peopel talked ender he'd then ask "Why ender?" (paraphrasing) and dismiss the reasoning. this was the only person he did this around at EOD1 that was in his POE and i think its indicative of TMI

the post you quoted from SK doesnt really have anything to do with whwt i was saying

It is a misrep (tho not really one I can fault ppl for making) when you consider the reason Ender was in my POE.

Even if someone is in my poe I'd like to know the reason why they are being pushed. So I asked. And then you asnwered. And then I decided those reasons were bad. And I was correct.

I think winston is funny and have liked their style so my current poe is made of all the ppl I've had nothing to say about (Visor/Benneh/Ender/Insom) + Taffy who has apparently posted and I should prolly read.

I'm not very good at finding wolves (most of the time) so I try to find villagers and POE the wolves. Ender was in my poe yes but I had literally nother against him other than he hadn't townpingued me.

[Winston Hughes]

for clarity, i've never been in one of these votes-lock-at-lylo situations, so don't assume i fully understand the implications

[Achro]

for clarity, i've never been in one of these votes-lock-at-lylo situations, so don't assume i fully understand the implications

if someone votes, and they cross vote, those are the two choices and at least one is a wolf. If a villager votes a villager first, it is all over for village.

[Winston Hughes]

if someone votes, and they cross vote, those are the two choices and at least one is a wolf. If a villager votes a villager first, it is all over for village.

so why would a villager vote with half the day still to go, then?

[SilverKeith]

wait, sorry, why are you doing that?

I think we should put the first vote early-ish and I think I should cross with someone here based on the fact that half the game wanted me dead yday.

Please comment on my Cuth thoughts, Insomnia is my third strongest wolf read and it would make today hard for me if you vote there just fyi.

I'll comment on what you have to say about Cuth in a bit. But I'm partially wary because I'm not sure a team of those three is reasonable actually. Like, they just decide on the same configuration of blindly pushing me? And then I flip town there and Visor shoots one of them and they lose all of their cred? I'm not that sure about that. I think one of you/katze/winston is a wolf. And I'm wary of being one of you/katze because they will want me to vote whoever could be a villager between my three pushers. So yeah I'm kind of riding the theory of y'all three being mostly villagers but I'm trying to make thoughts on my own and not be potentially sweet talked.

You're saying Cuth now and Katze said me/benneh were never v/v so... Idk. I'm wary. And tempted to vote Insom because If he's a wolf I think he'd be the one wolves would put their stocks in, if that makes sense.

[SilverKeith]

so why would a villager vote with half the day still to go, then?

Because every vote creates new information and we need time to digest that information.

If I cross with X, and game doesn't end, it means there's for sure a wolf between us (or two).

If then Z votes me, then it means Z and X are wolves, or I am one (or all three).

[Achro]

I think we should put the first vote early-ish and I think I should cross with someone here based on the fact that half the game wanted me dead yday.



I'll comment on what you have to say about Cuth in a bit. But I'm partially wary because I'm not sure a team of those three is reasonable actually. Like, they just decide on the same configuration of blindly pushing me? And then I flip town there and Visor shoots one of them and they lose all of their cred? I'm not that sure about that. I think one of you/katze/winston is a wolf. And I'm wary of being one of you/katze because they will want me to vote whoever could be a villager between my three pushers. So yeah I'm kind of riding the theory of y'all three being mostly villagers but I'm trying to make thoughts on my own and not be potentially sweet talked.

You're saying Cuth now and Katze said me/benneh were never v/v so... Idk. I'm wary. And tempted to vote Insom because If he's a wolf I think he'd be the one wolves would put their stocks in, if that makes sense.

If you think the latter I think you're going to lose the game atm, but I can't stop you.

They didn't really blindly push you much tbh. I think, personally and just my pov, if you are a villager you are using pretty bad reasons for unaligning people when the eods were more nuanced than you are making them seem.

katze/insom don't make a lot of sense together fwiw

katze doesnt make a lot of sense with anyone reading their game, just like you dont imo

do what you think is best though.

[Winston Hughes]

hmm, i suppose it will either make the rest of the game more interesting or end it straight away so i can stop thinking about it

[Achro]

but if you vote before cuth has a chance to address my concerns I am snap voting you
@SilverKeith

just fyi

[nebjiamn]

It is a misrep (tho not really one I can fault ppl for making) when you consider the reason Ender was in my POE.

Even if someone is in my poe I'd like to know the reason why they are being pushed. So I asked. And then you asnwered. And then I decided those reasons were bad. And I was correct.



I'm not very good at finding wolves (most of the time) so I try to find villagers and POE the wolves. Ender was in my poe yes but I had literally nother against him other than he hadn't townpingued me.

now you're misrepping me (or now i'm realizing i worded it poorly)

my issue is not specifically that you asked why ender was pushed, its that ender was the only one from those in your poe you showed such care about

plus that, by stating you disagreed with why he was being pushed you're showing that you need something beyond just them being in your poe, and taht is 100% fine, but what was the progression and why were you pushing on insomnia at eod? why didn't you push harder on me or visor or at least look more into us?

THATS my point. your posts read like you cared about being right, not trying to figure out things or push them. 'dont kill cape' but didnt try very hard to save him. 'why ender?' an then disagree with the reasoning but not really try to diffuse the wagon. etc

[SilverKeith]

Understood even if I do not think you're snapvoting me.

If you're clearing katze/me your worry is 2 out of Benneh/Cuth/Insom and winston I'm getting?
Hmmmm.

re:your points with cuth that he doesn't vote benneh ever, eh. If I'm arguing for hypothetical v!cuth, he jumped votes all over the place so maybe he didn't land on benneh. If I'm arguing on w!cuth then yeah he might be with wolf benneh and don't want to bus each other, just pretend like they're having some kind of conflict while distancing.

Sadly I'll have to somewhat agree with Benneh here that w!cuth prolly has like a meticoulously planned PATH TO SUCESS which prolly doesn't involve getting benneh there lunched, maybe because Benneh is my main pusher alongside Insom, so if wolf cuth lunches v!Benneh, he loses cred and it makes it harder for them to push me. Instead if they flip v!me it'd be like "welp everyone wanted sk dead and his posts sucked anyway so can't blame me".

So I do not think "not voting benneh" is a lock for them being partnered. Because I think, talking about w!cuth, that him voting insom witouth really meaning to like he did EOD2 alongside me and visor is more partner-y than him not voting benneh, regardless of what he has to said about benneh. Like, If Cuth is a wolf, he neither wants benneh or insom dead, either because they are partners or bc he needs me them to misslunch me. And in that regards, I do not think there's that much of a difference between pretending to vote insom and not voting benneh, because they were never the lunches there.

If we're talkign v!cuth idk what he was thinking but I also don't know wtf he was thinking at eod1. That one he'll have to answer. But the easier answer is that it's easier for him to be wrong about me being a town, than it is to him being wrong about say benneh or insom.

[nebjiamn]

hmm

thats a frustrating post tbh lol

[SilverKeith]

now you're misrepping me (or now i'm realizing i worded it poorly)

my issue is not specifically that you asked why ender was pushed, its that ender was the only one from those in your poe you showed such care about

plus that, by stating you disagreed with why he was being pushed you're showing that you need something beyond just them being in your poe, and taht is 100% fine, but what was the progression and why were you pushing on insomnia at eod? why didn't you push harder on me or visor or at least look more into us?

THATS my point. your posts read like you cared about being right, not trying to figure out things or push them. 'dont kill cape' but didnt try very hard to save him. 'why ender?' an then disagree with the reasoning but not really try to diffuse the wagon. etc

I showed care about him bc it seemed like ppl were interested in voting him.

I pushed harder on insom than visor or you because Insom said something I didn't like and thought it was wolfy. I didn't receive such wolfpings for visor nor you.

I didn't care about being right I just happened to be . My poe there has at least 3 dead villagers and from your pov maybe 4 if you're town.
And even then I was only right on cape, because re:ender he just happened to claim and I had somewhat of a refusal to commiting to a solid ender read since he snowed me on our last game here.

I was never "defending" cape because I do not play like that. I'm not a pro-active player of the game unless the game really needs me to be one. Plus I had skimemd a decent part of the game and didn't really get why ppl were disliking cape other than "his posts are bad" which is something I never agreed on and I saw him in a spot I had seen other villas before (trying to solve regardless of the outcome).

I'm not saving cape there unless I was super confident on him being town. And seeing the opinion of other players who know cape best and had a better grasp at the game than me, saying cap was scummy, I obviously wasn't really confident on that read, so I said I was ok with his lunch.

If you're town you're just projecting what you'd do in my position I think. Because none of the things you had problems with say "wolf!sk" to me. Tho I'm obviously biased in that view lol.

[Achro]

My shit tier read on Achro is that he's V because he wouldn't catch himself saying stuff like "yeah I owned SK that time he wolfed in champs" and then proceed to missread me here at the start of the game.

Like, wolf achro's image of what town achro would do is obv read me correctly as a villager even if i'm just w/e'ing a wallpost. His missread of me is genuine imo. Or he faked it absurdly well but i've seen achro be deadass wrong and I've thought to myself "he can't fake being this wrong" and I was right.

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums...11#post6797711

I'm saving it until like D3 when I can actually push him maybe.

Honestly I want to see a flip before making my mind of him even if that's a bit cliche. I think he's playing as he'd do as a wolf, buuuut....

The fact that he's wrong about me makes me believe he's town. If he were mafia he wouldn't treat me like this. He isn't normally this sassy when he knows he's wrong as a wolf. He basically treated me with kid gloves in the game where he was a wolf. I'd only expect him to read me this badly if he's town.

Actually sort of the same logic applies to you. I'd actually expect wolf!y'all treatment of me to be more according to zereff bc he's just leaving me on town and not worrying about me.

Hm hm hm.

Hm hm hmmm.

I like Benneh better today than SK tbh. SK has gotten a bit word salady for me and the EOD reads I liked before not so much now.

The above two quotes feel very 'same picture' like, and I am quoting a wolf SK game.

If SK is town he has messed up here, because before I was thinking he was town but now I am forced to wonder if the team is SK/Cuth/? and Benneh just got caught in the cross hairs because his reads and way of playing confuse me.

Really I can always go back to 'fuck it we ball' and the person mafia chose to kill was dya, so if I just vote for them like a COWARD then I can't really be blamed.

idk

the whole me trying to press cuth hard, cuth saying to give time, and then sk excusing cuth going SUPER HARD on him last eod for reasons SK at the time thought were bad in thread to 'nah, cuth doesn't have to respond, I'll vote insomnia within an hour'... idk, just not prudent town play, and maybe we're just never winning if sk is town here because I hate the not giving katze/cuth time to dig into the day much. It's been mostly me and a little bit of benneh atp.

it just feels bad.

I have like 3 posts left so we'll see, but those are my thoughts. If the cross is sk/insomnia I don't know which way I'll go, but probably sk for the above message and how it potentially pocketed me + dya's last will + the forced vote not feeling good at all.

[insomnia]

I know you're saying "Ill reserve my points after he posts work" but that just sounds like "I'll see where he's wrong in his solve and drill into that for people to see".

You think my posts so far are bad... explain then. Tell me exactly why do you think are bad.

Because just saying my posts are bad is so... meaningless, empty, nonsensical. It doesn't mean anything at all I post like shit as both alignment and I can craft well made and reasonable posts and views as either alignment either. I won't say it isn't AI, because it is sometimes, but it seems like you're so focused on keeping up the narrative that you're just mindlessly repeating it.

Like, you talk about me but what you've done this eod that is definitely villagery? It seems to me like you are a wolf who already knows he has won because one of cuth/benneh/whoever is a villager who's never reconciliating with town!sk idea and never reevaluating.

This goes to @Cuthillius @nebjiamn too. Explain why I'm currently a wolf in your worldviews.

Also yeah Insom my secret vote was you but I'm interested in knowing why you thought that?

why would you be interested in that, lol

i've been your ~only resemblance of a push the entire time and your reasons sound fake to me. the analysis i made for winston works the exact same way for you in the way he was treating katze vs the way you treated me this game. maybe not the exact same because he cooled off on it while you had to be more upfront about it always



anyway, with these strings of posts, it is p apparent to me what sk wants to do today, so i can say some words



sk's posts are telling me he isn't really considering the game after dya's death

the reason i waited was because dya as a death when their only push was sk and from his pov it's a wrong push, it should ring serious alarm bells about him being wrong in his townreads imo, yet he has the exact same view and no signs of paranoia anywhere in his reads.

because dya dying there is pretty wild from his pov and the wolves just wanna wrap the game up if sk's a villa. how is dya ever a kill that a PoE would make? and why benneh and myself when dya was villa reading the both of us?

it feels to me like everyone had a semblance of paranoia, achro on katze and cuth, i did on winston, katze on achro too

funny enough, the person who has the most right to be paranoid has shown no signs of it today /shrug

[SilverKeith]

Uh huh.

Achro do you realize this is the exact thing I think wolf!you would be doing right?

I'm reading the last page where you theorize a team of Cuth/Benneh/Insom and say that "Not seeing a lot of evidence it's not the team I think it is". You also say that you want one of those three to be voted. You have basically no problem with me.

I come in declaring intention to vote Insom.

Then you're like "welp actually I like Benneh more than SK now because whatever" and start sprouting anti-sk language and suddenly you have a problem with me voting insom and say that if I cross insom you're like "well idk I'll prolly vote sk here or something".

I'm not sure if you're a wolf, but if you are, this is a textbook example of trying to install fear in me for reaching a decision. By casually claiming that you'd vote me in that cross, then I'm suddenly like "welp can't vote insom now I guess I'll vote with the vote Achro wants me to go". It doesn't work like that. Fuck thinking who tf would vote alongside me, I want to vote a wolf and that's that.

[Achro]

If there is one thing town achro is that wolf achro never is, it is whimsical.

Good luck with your decision.

[SilverKeith]

why would you be interested in that, lol

i've been your ~only resemblance of a push the entire time and your reasons sound fake to me. the analysis i made for winston works the exact same way for you in the way he was treating katze vs the way you treated me this game. maybe not the exact same because he cooled off on it while you had to be more upfront about it always



anyway, with these strings of posts, it is p apparent to me what sk wants to do today, so i can say some words



sk's posts are telling me he isn't really considering the game after dya's death

the reason i waited was because dya as a death when their only push was sk and from his pov it's a wrong push, it should ring serious alarm bells about him being wrong in his townreads imo, yet he has the exact same view and no signs of paranoia anywhere in his reads.

because dya dying there is pretty wild from his pov and the wolves just wanna wrap the game up if sk's a villa. how is dya ever a kill that a PoE would make? and why benneh and myself when dya was villa reading the both of us?

it feels to me like everyone had a semblance of paranoia, achro on katze and cuth, i did on winston, katze on achro too

funny enough, the person who has the most right to be paranoid has shown no signs of it today /shrug

So I didn't reach the conclussion you'd want me to reach therefore I'm a wolf I guess.

I don't see why dya dying changes that much for me. Dya was a town. I was hard townreading them.

The fact that they died while pushing me doesn't mean anything when half the game wanted me dead. Like, why would I read into the nightkill that much going into lylo? it's wifom. You could kill any sk voter and argue it's because sk is a wolf which is something that will obviously be in people's mind. It happened to be dya because dya was prolly never lunched here.

I don't see why I should reevaluate my townreads (aside from being in lylo and all that) so far if the game hasn't revolved around me. We lunched cape who I didn't want lunched. Then we lunched visor but that's like an entire can of beans in itself. In fact dya, who was my biggest townread, just died. What is evenyour point here.

Like I hate making this point but the nk is wifom.

I think the only thing that's worth considering here is dya's reads perhaps. So yeah I'm taking into account that maybe w!benneh doesn't kill dya, let's say. But idk who's the team and wtf do they want.

Sorry I don't think this is a good point. You could be a wolf who killed dya to explicitly push this point. Or push whatever point.

[katze]

go with god keith

fuck the haters

not fully caught up, distracted with an unexpected babysitting request, but if you're voting first it is ultimately your decision who it lands on

21 me thinks