13er summer game thread

[Achro]

I don't remember my first forum mafia game or turbo mafia game. It's been awhile.

... 20/15 years

God I got old

[katze]

back at my computer for the finale

I have changed my mind, SK is town

unvote: Silverkeith

time to murder a wolf in 51 minutes.

silverkeith is gonna write something that people dont understand and at eod he will be executed over cape and then achro will coach cape in wolfchat and theyll endgame together

a tale as old as time

son of a

god damn you!

unvote

Vote:Katze

this sequence of posts is still really funny

[katze]

my first mafia game i subbed in eod11 and was yote d12

i was town

what the fuck

[katze]

how am i convincing myself that SK/achro are unaligned for the same posts that i tunneled them for being w/w for together prior to him flipping

[Cuthillius]

how am i convincing myself that SK/achro are unaligned for the same posts that i tunneled them for being w/w for together prior to him flipping

skill issue?

[Achro]

skill rejuvenation?

Fixed

[katze]

skill issue?

mafia is a luck game

[Raskolnikov]

Current tally:

Cuth(1): Achro
Achro(1): Cuth

(Iirc)

Falling asleep in front of tv... stay stronk, stay chill.

EOD in 24 hours and GN

[katze]

cuth i just typed a vote out on you and im too scared to send it can i get some motivation

[Achro]

How do you win a game as scum? By at some point in the game, attaining a majority.
This can happen in 3 way ELo, with one scum remaining. This can happen in 5 way ELo, with two scum remaining. This can happen in 7 way ELo, with three scum remaining. As scum, from as early as pregame, you should be thinking about how to cross the finish line. Who can't you eliminate, who can you eliminate, which scumteams are obviously not a possibilities. If you're playing reactively as scum, you're defeating the purpose of being informed. YOU are the one who holds the cards. YOU control the gamestate. You can't just miseliminate the easiest person every day. If in 7 way, there's you and your buddy who can potentially be connected, two confirmed innocents, and three VTs, two of whom have consistently defended each other in a way that the confirmed innocents think is kind of scummy and one of whom who is deathtunneling in a non-SvS way and is obviously not scum with either. If you eliminate one of the two scummy people the first day, congratulations you just ruined ELo. Now you HAVE to bus and push your teammate as scum with one of the others, and since you're backed into a corner reads wise it won't even look that towny if you bus. Whereas if you made the smart decision and together pushed the third person, you bring the two people who look like scum with each other into the endgame and it's a much easier elimination. You have to plan ahead, and you need to know how any of your actions will influence people's reads on the game. The future has to be in mind in every move that you make

Mafiascum article on how to bus. Good read tbh.

[Cuthillius]

cuth i just typed a vote out on you and im too scared to send it can i get some motivation

oh like actually don't do that

[Cuthillius]

that is not all i have to say

[katze]

that is not all i have to say

ngl itd have been kinda funny if it was

it just started storming outside

[Cuthillius]

ngl itd have been kinda funny if it was

it just started storming outside

send me some it's downright swampy here

[katze]

send me some it's downright swampy here

i live in florida its always swampy and also raining

not sure if you want any of that but if you do ill send you a florida man for free

[Achro]

I am in Georgia. Lived in Florida most of my life tho

We were close!

[katze]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

i can't wait to quit

for bennehs eyes only

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[nebjiamn]

for bennehs eyes only

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I am straight up miserable rn

thankfully I have some potentials but they can’t come soon enough

[katze]

lol i keep telling myself to just drop a vote and fuck off and then i continue reading and i remember why i thought achro and sk were w/w before

yippee

[katze]

really though, backreading has made me townread winston like twice as much as i did before

which is mildly inconvenient maybe because i could prob just tell benneh im polarized and he'd be like "yeah true" and vote with me

[katze]

need to think on this though

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

okay i have a lot of thoughts but i should really be doing other stuff right now so i will try to distill

i feel moderately strongly that benneh/katze are wolves together lol

main points:

-benneh just wasn't very villagery d1? he was kinda floating around and in particular i think the way in which he was pushing ender all day looks kinda gross in retrospect (well before the possibility of pr stuff i think?)
-katze randomly reads benneh strong v off vibes and basically keeps him there all the way through
--at one point earlyish on benneh makes an offhand jokey comment about this but doesn't really push back or follow through much at all; it's a very sort of i should acknowledge this but actually don't mind it kind of post
-both of them, but especially benneh, are very message-boost-y wrt ladd-- iirc all three of them had more or less the same exact readslist, though iirc benneh was like yeah same but a couple of these names would be lower on mine
-in that context ladd nk would make a lot of sense to cement some level of consensus in the thread and codify his takes before he had chances to reevaluate later, plus there weren't really many super hard clear villagers at that point
-both of them (more so katze) had relatively nuanced reads but at the end of the day basically were always gonna end up on cape/achro/ender, and neither really pushed very hard elsewhere, though there were some meaningless votes thrown around in various directions
--granted this is not unique to either of them but fits the overall narrative wrt ladd stuff and general direction
-also both of them are very shruggy towards sk yeet today in a pretty non-committal way

anyway those are my thoughts i think benneh looks a bit worse than katze but i think he makes the most sense with katze that is all goodbye for now

some of these are fair points but like, only really the ones that are tying me to katze and i feel like your'e reaching to fill in the gaps based off of that?

point by point:

-i, uh, disagree. i was plenty villagery yesterday and everyone agreed including lots of people who read me quite well. dya was basically the sole one out on this train and it was before they and I really got to engage

in terms of me floating around, yea, i have/had no intention of being the lead villager this game or tieing up the game thread in things that revolved around my take on a few early things. some point around half way thru d1 i decided i had to start putting my thoughts out because otherwise they're just possibly lost, but i did so in hopes of maintaining a healthy game thread that was fair to people who signed up for a chill game and may not have had the time to engage properly. examples: Silverkeith, who hadn't checked in for a long time, and taffy who had a early spout at SOD and i had a wolf read on but wanted to give them time to expand. i kinda held out as long as i felt like I could

-katze point and subpoint: partially there is some inside joke stuff going on between katze and I about how the other is polarized. i didn't press much on it d1 other than the post i believe you are talking about because 1) i was pretty villa reading kat anyway and 2) it just kind of plays into our dynamic

this has become more of a problem up to and including today where i've seen katze develop lots of reads more and more and create big wall posts but i've become increasingly concerned with their take on me because its CONTINUED to just be very surface level and meme-y

and like, i can see a world where kat is just happy to v read me for what i've done so far but i feel like you're holding me to the fire here for THEIR actions when i AM trying to discern what they're doing here, i just didn't do it on a time table you like, because why would I? i liiked them d1

-ladd point and subpoint about NK: uh, no response really. i enjoy playing with ladd a lot and getting his take on things. literally anyone in this list would nk ladd and it could be for his reads or his ability to re-eval or because literally anything. i don't see your point about how i'm being message boosty because we had a few similar reads while also saying i had a few dissimilar reads. that's... literally everyone

-next point on nuanced reads -- again this is more about katze so w/e, but you are saying 'neither really pushed very hard elsewhere' except i was the one pushing taffy and ender? cape was almost decidedly the elim half way thru day yesterday and i WAS the one pushing elsewhere. then cape posted more and i wasn't really sold on him being ~rand anymore so i was also fine with him dying, but the rest of your point is just a lie. also i don't think i was every voting achro and i'm not sure where you get the idea i would?

-how am i shruggy and non-commital toward a sk yeet lol, he's my top wolf bronana

anyway

i wanted to give villa points for this honestly but after taking the time to break it down i really don't see how you have the basis to say I look worse than aktze here when all the stuff you are pointing at on me is CONDITIONAL upon katze being wolf and me just deciding to let them weird!read me while i play confused about what the hell they're doing

gross post tbh

[nebjiamn]

yeah true

[katze]

okay i have a lot of thoughts but i should really be doing other stuff right now so i will try to distill

i feel moderately strongly that benneh/katze are wolves together lol

main points:

-benneh just wasn't very villagery d1? he was kinda floating around and in particular i think the way in which he was pushing ender all day looks kinda gross in retrospect (well before the possibility of pr stuff i think?)
-katze randomly reads benneh strong v off vibes and basically keeps him there all the way through
--at one point earlyish on benneh makes an offhand jokey comment about this but doesn't really push back or follow through much at all; it's a very sort of i should acknowledge this but actually don't mind it kind of post
-both of them, but especially benneh, are very message-boost-y wrt ladd-- iirc all three of them had more or less the same exact readslist, though iirc benneh was like yeah same but a couple of these names would be lower on mine
-in that context ladd nk would make a lot of sense to cement some level of consensus in the thread and codify his takes before he had chances to reevaluate later, plus there weren't really many super hard clear villagers at that point
-both of them (more so katze) had relatively nuanced reads but at the end of the day basically were always gonna end up on cape/achro/ender, and neither really pushed very hard elsewhere, though there were some meaningless votes thrown around in various directions
--granted this is not unique to either of them but fits the overall narrative wrt ladd stuff and general direction
-also both of them are very shruggy towards sk yeet today in a pretty non-committal way

anyway those are my thoughts i think benneh looks a bit worse than katze but i think he makes the most sense with katze that is all goodbye for now

some of these are fair points but like, only really the ones that are tying me to katze and i feel like your'e reaching to fill in the gaps based off of that?

point by point:

-i, uh, disagree. i was plenty villagery yesterday and everyone agreed including lots of people who read me quite well. dya was basically the sole one out on this train and it was before they and I really got to engage

in terms of me floating around, yea, i have/had no intention of being the lead villager this game or tieing up the game thread in things that revolved around my take on a few early things. some point around half way thru d1 i decided i had to start putting my thoughts out because otherwise they're just possibly lost, but i did so in hopes of maintaining a healthy game thread that was fair to people who signed up for a chill game and may not have had the time to engage properly. examples: Silverkeith, who hadn't checked in for a long time, and taffy who had a early spout at SOD and i had a wolf read on but wanted to give them time to expand. i kinda held out as long as i felt like I could

-katze point and subpoint: partially there is some inside joke stuff going on between katze and I about how the other is polarized. i didn't press much on it d1 other than the post i believe you are talking about because 1) i was pretty villa reading kat anyway and 2) it just kind of plays into our dynamic

this has become more of a problem up to and including today where i've seen katze develop lots of reads more and more and create big wall posts but i've become increasingly concerned with their take on me because its CONTINUED to just be very surface level and meme-y

and like, i can see a world where kat is just happy to v read me for what i've done so far but i feel like you're holding me to the fire here for THEIR actions when i AM trying to discern what they're doing here, i just didn't do it on a time table you like, because why would I? i liiked them d1

-ladd point and subpoint about NK: uh, no response really. i enjoy playing with ladd a lot and getting his take on things. literally anyone in this list would nk ladd and it could be for his reads or his ability to re-eval or because literally anything. i don't see your point about how i'm being message boosty because we had a few similar reads while also saying i had a few dissimilar reads. that's... literally everyone

-next point on nuanced reads -- again this is more about katze so w/e, but you are saying 'neither really pushed very hard elsewhere' except i was the one pushing taffy and ender? cape was almost decidedly the elim half way thru day yesterday and i WAS the one pushing elsewhere. then cape posted more and i wasn't really sold on him being ~rand anymore so i was also fine with him dying, but the rest of your point is just a lie. also i don't think i was every voting achro and i'm not sure where you get the idea i would?

-how am i shruggy and non-commital toward a sk yeet lol, he's my top wolf bronana

anyway

i wanted to give villa points for this honestly but after taking the time to break it down i really don't see how you have the basis to say I look worse than aktze here when all the stuff you are pointing at on me is CONDITIONAL upon katze being wolf and me just deciding to let them weird!read me while i play confused about what the hell they're doing

gross post tbh

yeah true

u should vote some1

[katze]

epic multiquote fail

[Achro]

Katze my advice is to treat me like I treated cuth. Ask me questions. If you don't like answers vote me and no worries.

You haven't liked asked me anything all day lol

[nebjiamn]

I will probably vote someone today

70%

[Cuthillius]

anyway

this is what i have to say for myself

idk what's been going on all game and it's kinda felt like a shitshow and like i'm just a spectator from outside

like sometimes i felt alright going into eods but then i just sat there pressing buttons and being like i have no clue what's going on

legitimately achro was probably the single person i had as my highest v read all game (at any given point in terms of magnitude)

except for maybe visor

otherwise i've just been like what is going on

that said i still think i've played pretty well? i do think the fact that literally everyone v-read me (including visor, who's probably the non-retired player i'm most intimidated to wolf against) until d3 when i wasn't around and achro made shit up about my posts does count for something, though not a ton

i think the only comparable situation i've been in where i was wolf and was universally town-read was in the game where i bussed d1 because otherwise we would have just lost because everyone else was super villagery, but that's a different sort of situation than here

but like none of the reads on me were super depth-y so i respect that that's not maybe the biggest point in my favor but i think it is still something

i feel good about finding sk-- i called him out already eod1 and tried to kill him over visor d2

unlike achro, who engaged with sk early d1 and voted him but in a way that had no teeth and seems like it was just to give sk something to work off of, i actually followed through with that read consistently from eod1 on until he died

i think the biggest thing i can point to in my defense apart from that is just achro's approach to both visor and me

it's like. very big and grand and performative but it just feels like a switch is turned on and nothing can stop it

and i think his approach to eod2 was really gross in retrospect with the flips, and i think in a world where he's wolf this is his best play to secure victory, and i think he did it to make sure he had control over the day

his pivot onto me was just awful-- he constructed a narrative around me and benneh, two of the people who at least on paper look the best from sk, based on the fact that i didn't vote benneh with him despite having him as top town

ignoring the fact, which i clarified both in the moment and by indicating posts from then, that when he first asked that he was doing so as part of a ticket where he was trying to murder visor and dya, after all the claim stuff had unfolded, and then when i later did actually have him as top town it was because he had crossed some boundaries i straight up didn't think he'd cross as a wolf, and then i still didn't vote with him because i didn't want to kill benneh, because why would i

like i think there are absolutely worlds where benneh and sk were like hi yes i will bus the hecc out of you from the start of d2, but killing benneh before sk there would just be a super bad play, and it felt like it could be an opportunity to wring out a town yeet before we killed sk anyway

like i was gonna make sure sk died eventually no matter how benneh flipped, but the play there is never to go benneh

and sure i was voting other people but that's a very different thing

i have no clue who the third wolf is, and if it's benneh (and i understand that you think so atm?) idk what the play was there, but here we are

i think i've been pretty transparent in my solving process this game, and i also think it's pretty clear that achro's case, despite being transparent, is even more contradictory in and of itself than he is accusing me of being, and i don't think he's town-sided at a single point during this game

if you're a wolf then feel free to disregard and just vote me, but this is how it is

i'm kinda disappointed in a lot of things that have happened this game

if we lose here i wouldn't be that shook because i think we don't super deserve to win, but i also really don't want to reward the wolves for playing the way they have shrugze

respect the decision you come to and i know i'd have a hard time getting to achro!w here myself-- i don't think i'd ever have seriously considered him in f5 if he didn't vote me

godspeed

[nebjiamn]

(Really tho I’m in the back of an Uber and falling asleep so if you are waiting on me it will be a while as I’m still reading thru the game and I’m not actually doing that at this point in time because of said Uber)

[katze]

i feel really weird about achro continuing to push this narrative where winston is the poisoner and so I'm posting about it in hopes that if i die, someone else will look into it

dya u were too good for this world

[katze]

achro i honestly dont have that much to ask. this is probably an issue for me

benneh im not rly waiting for a vote but id prefer to not vote first outside the cross

but i might do it anyway