13er summer game thread

[Achro]

i do feel like i keep being told I've done and said things i haven't done over and over and every time i try to clarify that it's like nothing i say is considered

but you're right and this isn't the place to use that language

I mean if you really feel this way post game I will be glad to discuss it with you but I really do think I am right on the facts here and notice obvious holes in your story fmpov or I wouldnt have voted you. Like I know as a wolf you can think 'I shouldnt have been caught for that' but I think I am right here. Or maybe I just got lucky

anyway SK wall

[Cuthillius]

I mean if you really feel this way post game I will be glad to discuss it with you but I really do think I am right on the facts here and notice obvious holes in your story fmpov or I wouldnt have voted you. Like I know as a wolf you can think 'I shouldnt have been caught for that' but I think I am right here. Or maybe I just got lucky

anyway SK wall

i can 100% promise you i will really feel this way post game lol

[Achro]

i can 100% promise you i will really feel this way post game lol

I believe you, buddy. No problem. right now it's he/she said, but since we both know the score of what's REALLY going on, I'll save it for post game and tell you in more detail why I thought certain things and even if you disagree if we ever play again (...and I hope we do, as I have found your play good and not problematic for me at all, but I will understand if it isnt mutual) you will know the things I read into so you can trick me next time.

[Cuthillius]

I believe you, buddy. No problem. right now it's he/she said, but since we both know the score of what's REALLY going on, I'll save it for post game and tell you in more detail why I thought certain things and even if you disagree if we ever play again (...and I hope we do, as I have found your play good and not problematic for me at all, but I will understand if it isnt mutual) you will know the things I read into so you can trick me next time.

fantastic

[katze]

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053848445

i feel like i can solve the game based off of this post alone i just need to figure out how

[Achro]

THESIS TIME (will try not to write an actual thesis)

really i wish i had more questions to ask but i feel like 90% of my doubts with you are like... the SK shit. and ive asked questions about that

but sure, fuck it, maybe it'll help. can you just like... outline your progression on SK from his first post until his death? like an entire fuckin thesis

i need to get better at asking questions you're right

Okay so I obviously have played with SK before, poked him in the ribs about champs, and didn't think much about him until I saw his ‘opening wall’ which FMPOV had two town people listed as two wolves, so I wanted to respond to it to both explain my own actions and defend my town read, below.

Hello @SilverKeith two questions. Why is it unlike me to try new things? If I recall the last game we played together, draft mafia, opened with me doing something new and interesting as well. I would say it's fairly typical in games with new conditions for me to experiment.

102 is not wolf indicative for me I am afraid. I just replaced a generic reason to wolf read ladd a little with what I felt was a stronger one to tr him. Don't see why you feel that is something that is firmly in the domain of wolf achro vs town achro. What is your experience with my wolf game?

As for Taffy first off way to shade my town sorting process, but also most would agree with the process I use to sort townirs being as you described so fair.

Anyway I don't know taffy's meta but to explain I think generally it is very town indicative to look for gotchas like Taffy did with me. I feel it is more likely villagers look at past games AND also villagers don't really consider the results before cherrypicking data. Taffy got my post count right and said 'how are you going to struggle to solve?' And didn't stop to ask if I was a wolf. Or I'd town killed any wolves. Or if I posted the last day for their posts per day to be accurate. Felt very cute and town to me.

Now if this is stuff Taffy does all the time as a wolf someone will have to let me know.

Hmm

Not sure how to feel about the wall tbh. It feels like commentaryvanyone could say. It's all fine but not hearing town in you quite yet. It's not disagreeable in its conclusions but I also dont understand why you think Taffy is the best vote in wolf achro worlds as I think I would be TMIing them town if wolf with my town read of them attempting to disarm them like I did. I guess you don't need to worry too much about pairing thoughts before any flips though and maybe thats the case here.

Can you link a wolf game where you reference other games for your first vote? I find this is usually town more than scum at a rate much higher than rand in my experience and would like to see otherwise.

If Taffy does this type of thing as a wolf with proof then they haven't done much else and fair, but it would for sure never be my first thought to think wolf.

Wall was ok although not out of sk's scum range and catchup walls are kind of the easiest thing to fake. Good look if I am wrong about Taffy though as sk could have easily pivoted to me instead.

So let me break down my thought process behind why I asked the things I did and say the things I said here. First, as I said in our last encounter I did something kind of neat that actually outed a wolf early on (...that I also let go day 1, fuck SK is a jinx) so I didn’t know why SK would have that read as town.

I thought the point about 102 was poor and for sure not AI for me, so mentioned it to him.

He then calls my town read of Taffy ‘illegitimate’ which is interesting because as I replied yeah, a
lot of people think so so har har. I couldn’t argue that point.So then I went into more detail for SK my read because yeah wolf achro will fudge stuff like this, it’s a fair critique objectively and I am working on explaining my reads better, and leaving off with hey if taffy is a known trickster, someone let me know. No one ever really indicated that, so my TR of taffy held until they were gone.

Then I sat back and reflected on the way the wall was written and it didn’t feel great, I felt a sense of ‘it’s fine…I guess?’ but I couldn’t understand why you would ever go after Taffy of all people and not me given my history of good wolf play. If SK had us both as wolves, I would think pushing me into more votes when I had 2-3 at the time (I think benneh JUST voted before the wall dropped) would be a good move to pressure me. If I think there is a good scum player, I want to pressure them.

So then I ask him to provide a specific game for his vote reasoning on Taffy because I didn’t like the vote at all, referencing my cited theory on taffy’s vote and wanting to see where HIS mind was at for why he thought that was a good vote. It was meant to challenge him to provide evidence and foundation for disagreeing with my town read, because my town reads are usually pretty good so I wanted to see history with Taffy.

I then ended this first post thinking I was a little weirded out but it would take me more reflecting to go ‘ehh I shouldn’t actually give this a pass’ because my parting commenting about walls being easy to fake lingered with me.


I will post this now so you don’t have to read a whole thesis at once, but this concludes my thoughts on one post.

…

I am so sorry.

[Achro]

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053848445

i feel like i can solve the game based off of this post alone i just need to figure out how

'does wolf achro really control + f the word 'visor' on his phone for a afternoon to make a case for someone who is publicly red checked but he knows isn't a wolf to then link this non red checked person to two people exclusively over dozens of posts and digging into micro tells of partnerships he knows is completely fabricated instead of doing literally anything else with his time.'

(the answer is no. I fell for the FPS of Ender because I was town and happily did this work. That is 22000 words of text. Some quoted, but oh my god I spent time on that)

[Achro]

Actually maybe lean wolf which is a little annoying because in one post SK has more content than most of the player list. This day feels destined for a chop of a villager unless I am wrong on Taffy being one. Not feeling a lot of thoughts from a lot of people hmm.

I guess my problem is I don't understand the town thought process behind not voting me there if you think I am a wolf. I am very active and also in my mind kind of unpaired with Taffy for the way I talked about him as the good thing to do there w/w is to get into some type of scuffle not top town them and praise them which I feel like can be considered much more pockety than whatever I did with ladd in that post. It feels unintuitive to me. Why read intentions into ladd interaction when the wolf achro/town Taffy ones are much more obvious. I also feel like your reasoning for Taffy is weak unless this is firmly in their usual scum initiative.

Further, it feels like the difference between these two events is commenting on ladd also allows you to smoothly town read ladd almost in the background which feels unpartnered to me.

So while I don't expect this to go anywhere since you posted a nice wall and 50 posts is not going to give me any thread pull, I guess I will vote you for now.

vote:silverkeith

Not confident or anything but I at least want follow up on my points. Some more firm discussion would be nice too if possible. If not I guess we will kill whichever villager we care about least in about 12 hours and call it a day.

So first paragraph is me coming back and going 'no, I can't let that slide and this is one of my comments but certainly not the only one about me being a little itchy about the thread state. I've gotten a good sense for those things lately, and as it turned out I was correct so I wanted to shake things up. I feel like most of that first post is well within partner range for me and sk, but this next part would be doing the most for a thread who isn't listening and me who has gone through quite a few posts. It's needlessly bussy when my questions before feel relatively unpartnered to me.

Bu anyway as I explain I just couldn't get over him not voting me there. Because he found us both wolfy, but he never thought to say 'well obviously they can't BOTH be wolves with that opening' like I believe you did when I brought this to your attention. It bothered me a lot that SK didn't have that click moment between the two reads he was wolfing. Like the reads weren't actual thoughts, just convenient words to play the part. I used the word unintuitive, and it's a good word. You, who were taking into the game, had issues with me but it was almost an off hand remark that me and taffy weren't paired. It's a difference check in mentality looking back. Then I took note of the ladd/me interactions which were WAY more mild than me/taffy but he note ladd's towniness because... I honestly think I fucking nailed this one, it was a way to town read ladd without being too weird. But he didn't take into account that TRing ladd off me but not Taffy off me fundamentally is a reach. If you do both that's okay, but pulling ladd (the strong town player) vs taffy (the suspected player at the time) into different pockets felt manipulative and almost had to be agenda'd I thought. But also I try to keep in mind that people communicate and think differently, so I was suspicious but this wasn't a SLAM DUNK or anything, especially since SK could have later produced Taffy stuff and be like "a-ha!" and I'd be like 'ok cool, thanks for explaining."

So then I voted, and I didn't have a lot of posts because I am an idiot and need to work on pot cap pacing (legit skill issue) so I left it there for the post.

[katze]

'does wolf achro really control + f the word 'visor' on his phone for a afternoon to make a case for someone who is publicly red checked but he knows isn't a wolf to then link this non red checked person to two people exclusively over dozens of posts and digging into micro tells of partnerships he knows is completely fabricated instead of doing literally anything else with his time.'

(the answer is no. I fell for the FPS of Ender because I was town and happily did this work. That is 22000 words of text. Some quoted, but oh my god I spent time on that)

thats definitely the easy answer yeah

i think a thing with good wolves is that they see stuff like that as a prime opportunity to flex and show a LACK OF TMI so to say

that might be partial projection (i know if i were mafia id see that and be like "damn i could totally write a whole ass wallpost" but idt id have DONE it this game) but ive seen it come from a few other ppl i consider elite wolves and its part of why i was kinda suspicious of you/winston being paired. i actually still think winston is your most likely teammate which

well, i think he's probably town

but i'm still thinking on it. im still reading that big wall (ill get to what you're writing now in a bit, not gonna go wall to wall to wall i might die if i do that) and seeing how i feel about it, yknow? in realtime a few things confused me such as you quoting me talking about visor/cuth/benneh and then calling dya mafia off of it, you said it was probably your way of townreading me, but i still don't really GET that

ill probably get to writing out nitpicks in a bit but i smell chicken so i will probably take a break to eat it

[Achro]

Anyway I think I like Visor's vote on me now when earlier I didn't. I 5hink he would be wary of just having a vote chill on a villager for most of the day and not care that I didn't like it as a wolf since he knows I can be prickly at times. Nothing too indicative or anything since he is just floating with it but maybe more town than scum.

Katze's suspicion of me is fine I guess if we aren't assuming they are an anime villain which I am unsure how prudent it is but also I will give benefit of the doubt and imagine they are being genuine.

So really only sk sticks out to me as not feeling too genuine atm.

I also dont like how much cape is being discussed unless he is a wolf and then I knew it all along. I don't get how he is the most wolfy out of everyone and if someone could explain it I would appreciate it. It almost feels like 'yeah we don't like that guy' which is fine and all if he is a wolf but I would like to know why exactly and I don't. So @insomnia that's for you and others.

So then I take a moment to re-evaluate some things. I decide you know what, Visor is fine for now with his vote on me it feels good enough, because in our previous w/v meeting he WAS concerned about his appearance to me as a wolf so I was referencing a past game thinking about it. A good read I got away from due to brain breaking, oops.

Then I took my hand off the trigger with you and decided I shouldn't treat you unfairly just because you are skilled, and you felt more genuine than SK did due to the reasons in my above post.

I then try to pull discussion away from cape.

A post mostly NOT about SK but it also gets into my head and I like this post because this has 4 correct opinions and we take those when you're a fish.

Moving on I question winston, think we have a mindmeld on katze even though I am not pushing katze anymore and call that town (p sure that's a W)

I can get behind Katze sus.

I now very much like Winston/Achro/Taffy as town tbh.

Ender thought I was pocketing him but actually he was just mirroring my world view and I could UNDERSTAND the katze sus unlike taffy sus (and taffy imo was lhf like cape so ender defending that slot made me think he was being not predatory and thus town) so I tr'd him instantly for this since I jut tr'd winston myself.

I prefer to think of it as inquiring and looking for actual answers to that question but anyway ender and I are masons now. Sorry not sorry.

(Town read for the person not named ender who can guess why I am tring ender correctly.)

I stand by this... I wasn't trying to be self-righteous :(

Personally if I were in Katze's position as a town slot I woukd be a bit curious why SK and I both as wolves but voted Taffy and along with that didn't make any comment about our pairing being unlikely.

The fact katze thinks of that in relationship to Taffy intuitively but Keith in a big wall doesn't think about it at all along with the fact that walls are pretty easy makes me start to think more than they were just faking their thoughts. Would love to hear Keith's thoughts on the matter though.

So this was me trying to prompt you on SK and maybe doing a bad job. I was trying my best to highlight and appeal to you that SK's suspicion of me and taffy really flew in the face of your own solving at the time which I felt was good if I stopped being paranoid of you. This was meant to be a difference check, and also really wanting to get SK in thread to discuss it.

You misunderstood it, I tried to clarify

My point is sk thought Taffy and I were wolf both but made no comment on how that pairing is weird while you did.

Also how do I see how many posts I have in a topic. I counted earlier lol

Ah yes the replies. I looked at that thread before but manually forgot about it since I only played once. Okay cool. Tbh not bad that I will only be capped for like an afternoon. But also not surprising that I will be capped lol.

Anyway 12 players let's see.

Town people in order of confidence roughly
Ender - like their world view a lot, feels chill and I can buy that they think self righteousness is a town tell for me generally (it is not it is mood dependent but this observation makes sense from the games he has played with me).

Taffy - I am. Fucking literal GOD at reading into votes on me being suspicious vs not and this slot is NEVER A WOLF. Phrased this way for maximum funny if wrong but until proven otherwise I trust my read on that because fr I am good at understanding thread position of myself.
Winston - good vibes. Like the katze sus because it felt solvey to me
Cuth - had a post I really liked earlier but I forget what now. But I will trust early Chris.
Ladd - chill vibes, like most of their thoughts we shall see if he leads us off a cliff.
Cape - god help me I think he is town at this point but not confident. Lots of talk about him being scummy tho so maybe a little thread spewed. Not sure not usually my type of read.
Insomnia - not much experience with this one but seems alright to start.


Not so towny 5

Katze - not feeling the MOJO but also willing to see what they come up with. Probably not bussing given reputation so if they bag a wolf today probably ok
Visor - I remember nothing
Neb - I remember nothing but felt compelled to put them here
Dya - starting to get bad vibes but nothing definite
Sk - see many posts above, but basically I don't think that wall post was wrll thought out and genuinely solving the game from an uninformed perspective. Felt like he was placing chess pieces instead of trying to form reads. Want to hear from him tho because it could be a simple misunderstanding on my end.

That's my legacy for now if I get capped.

My paragraph here on SK I think stands without further commentary, I did a great job both with my problems and explaining confidence level. A+ communication.

Also Christopher.

ONE TOWN READ

IS ALWAYS A WOLF

WHY

anyway we move on.

im soulreading that achro, if town, thinks that i am a wolf but is trying to pretend hes unsure so i bus at EoD and then he buries me tomorrow

im posting this to fuck with your head

glgl

It didn't fuck with my head but it made me smile.

taffy
cape
ender
dya
sk

i don't realy think i'd wanna actually vote dya or sk but they're the bottom of my reads. sk more nullish and dya slightly wolfy

cape
benneh
cuth
sk

not in any order

i feel like when cuth commented it wasn't very memorable and didn't really move the thread at all. That's why cuth

This is a town post and dya is a town who is having trouble getting into the game.

Let's actually go back 3 years in time to the last time I pulled scum sk out of my hat day one in champs and commit some metallurgical murder.

So I thought this was a town post because it had sk at the bottom when sk wasn't getting any attention and I town read dya because of her ALSO sussing SK when people weren't really talking much about him other than me AND having that feeling that the thread wasn't quite right. So this was an appeal to the thread as a whole but benneh and dya hey, let's stab SK in the face right now.

Unfortunately, no one in thread ever responded to this lol.

On the one hand I did say if I thought cape was town I should reverse that and scum read him and after cap lifts maybe I will do that. On the other hand you nerds did kill illario day one in the game I was in so I am not sure how much you lot can be trusted.

(For legal purposes this is a joke)

Anyway if cape is a wolf he was bussed already, so whatever I got the information I need to do work overnight if that happens. Probsbly good for thread to see people's positions on him too as everyone had SOMETHING to say.

But also I think sk is howling atm so I will stick there.

Anyway that's my post cap thanks for joining me on this wacky debut episode of achro tries to understand how to deduce things without posting 300 times.

Context: I keep being wrong about cape and everyone thinking he is scummy but not me gave me vibes to a recent game. I defended him for half a day until finally sheeping so I was nervous, because this format and new players do make me nervous. I hate being hedgy as a rule but I didn't have big confidence.

ok sick achro is gone time to talk shit and cfd

vote: achro

whenever cap lifts i don't rly understand why u think sk is HOWLING i know you made the connection on how me and him viewed taffy/you dynamics differently but

shrug

on the bright side i dont think i can wolfread achro for lack of confidence anymore

Me trying to get people onto sk, having no one respond, and then katze votes me in hindsight:

Oh, actually ladd did say my sk murder post was pure but... didn't comment on my sk read much at all, no one really interacted with my analysis... at all. It just kind of passed the thread. No one asked me any questions. You responded to me prompting you but then didn't respond to that. I had limited posts so I couldn't jump up and down begging people to notice.


Visor(1): Cape
Cape(2): ladd, insomnia
Katze (3): cuth, Winston, ender
Achro(3): Visor, Taffy, katze
Taffy(2): benneh, SK
Sk(1): achro

1pm vote totals, a bit after I voted SK and prompted people with no replies.

I think I may have been capped or 1-2 off cap at that point, so next post will be discussing SK juking me.

[Cuthillius]

you don't need to respond to that I'm aware that it's obvious that i believe that if I'm a villager I'm just venting