13er summer game thread

[Achro]

Anyway I have talked a lot about cuth but if we don't get both wolves in the next two days town loses so my observations about benneh are less than cuth because benneh is harder to pin down. Benneh mostly posted well and was on sk early which is different from cuth. Also benneh says that the reason a wolf cuth wouldn't vote for him was THE FEAR and that sounds hollow but maybe it isn't? I don't know their relationship so if wonston or kkatze thinks this makes sense maybe it does. I found the behavior pairing but it doesnt have to be.

I found sk's appealing to katze calling me wolfy yesterday to be unpairing but there are worlds where sk is always going to try to take the fall and this is anti spew. Katze day 1 did vote me after I voted sk which could be a chainsaw defense. I found cuth's movement around katze pretty predatory in places in terms of the ease of it and they didn't feel like they were on the same wavelength very much.

Winston going 'not sk' is a bad look and also insomnia thought winston was very wolfy. But cuth's treatment of them also feels like they were concerned when winston suspected them compared to when benneh or sk said it.

They both have some wolf equity but it always felt like when cuth and benneh discussed things it was like brothers arguing. I didn't feel any real heat. A lot like sk/cuth eod where they argued on and on but somehow with 5 minutes left they were both voting for insomnia.

My reads are less accurate the less I know people. I would have loved to get some real time going with benneh but since I placed my vote on cuth he has not had any thoughts for me other than me being brain dead for suspecting him. Which tbf I did say if that's all he had then he shouldn't reply so I guess that checks out.

If cuth is voted out and I die consider my spirit vote on benneh in f3 but also I would want to ask anyone alive in f3 questions similar to the ones I asked cuth today. I would not be above re evaluation.

Rn I am stuck on why v!benneh offers?winston no guidance on who to vote after the cross. He has suspected cuth and katze for days so complete radio silence feels like a wolf claim fmpov but again I don't know benneh so I don't know if this is always how he is at lylo and it's just different. Like how Katze's was different.

So yeah if game continues that's my f3 legacy. Strongly leaning benneh but I would treat both people like I did cuth today and ask questions before making my mind up.

[Achro]

Another difference check between katze/winston and benneh/cuth imo is how both benneh and cuth have wielded 'being right' like a cudgel while both winston and katze have shown humility and understanding.

Winston will admit when things make them look bad. They will own up to their flaws and resolve to do better. Katze will mostly say they understand mindsets or things are reasonable. They admit to making errors and even saying something like being happy about eod1 when a villager was killed feels very towny to me because I disagree but it is also earnest sounding. It did help them solve despite a town being dead.

Cuth seemed to enjoy telling katze I was alive be ause my solve yesterday was benneh/visor/dya so of course I would live. He tried to beat me over the head that I was WRONG about visor and WRONG about dya ao why woukd he vote benneh with me? Despite that not making sense since he was the one who cased benneh independent of me. But he uses what I was wrong about to stab me. It's very wolfy. Very 'informed minority' style of play.

Benneh as well let's us know 'I had the best play of any villager here except maybe dya(who is dead)' so I have EARNED the right to vote last. He wields what I believe is TMI like a weapon. Ready to disarm anyone who dares approach him.

That's just a very wolfy tactic tbh. 'I am town because I was right' at lylo is actually a really bad argument. Because all of the best town were night killed by the mafia so if you were so right then why are you here?

I know why me winston and katze are here. We are silly and voted visor. Defended sk in places. Suspected obvious town. We kind of fucked up. We were uninformed.

But if benneh is so good... why is he so certain he is even going to make f3? Why does he feel the need to 'be confirmed' by voting last? Rhetorical of course. It's all imo just games. Just tricks of light.

Katze is here because they have been paranoid of me all game
Winston is here because they have been paranoid of katze all game
I am here because I have been paranoid of katze all game.

Just three little town mice dancing to the tune of the wolves. Benneh and cuth playing fucking amazing. Why are they here then?

They will have answers to this of course. There are always answers to any question in mafia. But they weren't killed so either they are wolves (in the case of cuth this is a certainty) or maybe they didn't play well enough to call people brain dead for suspecting them.

I just like philosophizing. Don't mind me

[nebjiamn]

i dont play lylo like you do and i dont need to appeal to the other two players who both have mafia equity about who to vote between two players where at least 1 is confirmed mafia. information is power in this scenario and i hold all the cards because i'm a villager and i don't need to do anything other than cast a good vote today and i can be stubborn as all hell and demand i vote last which is what im going to do

if katze is a villager they'll understand. they might not like it but they'll understand. i have no idea what winston will do but he was also gone all day yesterday, so please don't try to spin this as if i'm leaving people out to dry and not participating

if game continues after today one of us will have to read katze or winston and i don't need to 'help them' solve the game. they can ask questions and engage you or solve today however they want, but imo, the game is solved, its in the previous 33 pages. the only thing coming out of you and cuth today is self preservation and not at all alignment indicative, which is why ive been spending the day reading rather than engaging either of you two

[Achro]

i dont play lylo like you do and i dont need to appeal to the other two players who both have mafia equity about who to vote between two players where at least 1 is confirmed mafia. information is power in this scenario and i hold all the cards because i'm a villager and i don't need to do anything other than cast a good vote today and i can be stubborn as all hell and demand i vote last which is what im going to do

if katze is a villager they'll understand. they might not like it but they'll understand. i have no idea what winston will do but he was also gone all day yesterday, so please don't try to spin this as if i'm leaving people out to dry and not participating

if game continues after today one of us will have to read katze or winston and i don't need to 'help them' solve the game. they can ask questions and engage you or solve today however they want, but imo, the game is solved, its in the previous 33 pages. the only thing coming out of you and cuth today is self preservation and not at all alignment indicative, which is why ive been spending the day reading rather than engaging either of you two

Yeah sure. Like I said I don't know you and I am working off imperfect information.

If this is your villager play so be it. However if you believe the only thing coming from both of us today is self preservation when I am the one that out myself in this position I believe someone here once told me I was a bad villager but now I don't mind as much. I don't think that person had good criteria to be able to judge me.

There is no spin. Winston doesn't have to be here to talk to winston. Play how you want though. It's your game too. I can only comment on how your play effects my perception of your alignment.

Anyway I was in the middle of this..

Anyway since I was a giant dick day 2 I feel like being vulnerable about my mafia play style.

So back on gamefaqs when I was a teenager, centuries ago, wolves didn't really play fair. They would use every dirty trick in the book to get you to unvote them. ate, anger, toxicity every day, and just anything to win. That's the environment I was raised in as a mafia newbie. That's where I learned to play and those habits were mine for a little bit. Luckily it didn't take too long for me to realize that's not how I wanted to play anymore but other people weren't willing to change so my town game had to adapt.

I am actually always willing to change my reads. Hell sometimes I might even try to sheep a town read (like I did with conceding visor for benneh because I liked cuth's case day 2) but I learned I have to be firm. I have won every non mash town game this year but it's not because I am always right. No one could live up to that standard. If you frequent spec chat you hear me say the worst part about my fame are my reads. It's true. I am a better wolf than villager because I will make mistakes. Sometimes choosing the micro (sk's response to me) over the macro (sk's wall and the game state ignoring it should have stuck to me better)

So why do I come across as super confident? I guess because I want to challenge people so I can try to understand them. I am really bad at reading people who don't post a lot or float around so I usually like to world build with assumptions and then go from there. 'Does my world still make sense' after day one mostly yea. With ladd dead cape dead and ender dead after thinking back over the day my middle of the day 1 was validated so I was back to mostly my original poe. My town reads so far had been all correct. So I pursued sk. Then things happened.

I will adjust my language in the future based off feedback, but tbh I am always fearful of being wrong I just have learned that fear doesn't help me solve games so I set it aside and press on.

[Winston Hughes]

just to be clear, beyond skimming for anything truly revelatory, i'm not reading achro's posts at all at this point and haven't been for a while

and, for that matter, i don't need anyone else petitioning me for one side or the other

the only helper i'm prepared to take on at this point is cute and furry and named daisy (because my son wouldn't let me change her name to barbara like i wanted)

[Achro]

I am mostly posting to relieve my anxiety although I think if you ever want to read them after you will find them interesting.

[Winston Hughes]

one of my biggest problems right now is that a significant portion of my brain wants to get this wrong, so that i don't have to go through it all again tomorrow

the early part of the day is all good, but the closer it gets to where i have to decide the more it starts to consume my entire being

[Achro]

one of my biggest problems right now is that a significant portion of my brain wants to get this wrong, so that i don't have to go through it all again tomorrow

the early part of the day is all good, but the closer it gets to where i have to decide the more it starts to consume my entire being

It's just a game. If you get it wrong I am not going to be upset. Fun is rule # 1. Do what you've got to do. I enjoyed playing with you.

[katze]

one of my biggest problems right now is that a significant portion of my brain wants to get this wrong, so that i don't have to go through it all again tomorrow

the early part of the day is all good, but the closer it gets to where i have to decide the more it starts to consume my entire being

relatable

but also no pressure, if you get it wrong i'll probably also thank you for freeing me sooner glgl

[katze]

just to be clear, beyond skimming for anything truly revelatory, i'm not reading achro's posts at all at this point and haven't been for a while

and, for that matter, i don't need anyone else petitioning me for one side or the other

the only helper i'm prepared to take on at this point is cute and furry and named daisy (because my son wouldn't let me change her name to barbara like i wanted)

send pictures of her if shes a cat

otherwise idk turn her into a cat and send pictures anyway

[katze]

i dont play lylo like you do and i dont need to appeal to the other two players who both have mafia equity about who to vote between two players where at least 1 is confirmed mafia. information is power in this scenario and i hold all the cards because i'm a villager and i don't need to do anything other than cast a good vote today and i can be stubborn as all hell and demand i vote last which is what im going to do

if katze is a villager they'll understand. they might not like it but they'll understand. i have no idea what winston will do but he was also gone all day yesterday, so please don't try to spin this as if i'm leaving people out to dry and not participating

if game continues after today one of us will have to read katze or winston and i don't need to 'help them' solve the game. they can ask questions and engage you or solve today however they want, but imo, the game is solved, its in the previous 33 pages. the only thing coming out of you and cuth today is self preservation and not at all alignment indicative, which is why ive been spending the day reading rather than engaging either of you two

id understand if i were mafia too but i'm sure you understand its kinda unideal for me when i think you're mafia and think you're very readable if you were to just post

but yeah its basically the same mentality i was going into this day with and then i talked myself out of it

i dont think you're going to get your hammer vote though although winston is voting before you probably because he has a life and we're nerds so i guess thats more INFO for you if you're town

[Cuthillius]

id understand if i were mafia too but i'm sure you understand its kinda unideal for me when i think you're mafia and think you're very readable if you were to just post

but yeah its basically the same mentality i was going into this day with and then i talked myself out of it

i dont think you're going to get your hammer vote though although winston is voting before you probably because he has a life and we're nerds so i guess thats more INFO for you if you're town

i hope to god you're a wolf

[Achro]

i hope to god you're a wolf

If they are just say hi in wolf chat lol

[Cuthillius]

If they are just say hi in wolf chat lol

lol

[katze]

i hope to god you're a wolf

why

or at least why is that your thought to that post

[Cuthillius]

why

or at least why is that your thought to that post

idk

it's probably the only way we don't lose here

[katze]

idk

it's probably the only way we don't lose here

are you that sure i'm voting you here?

[Achro]

Trying for flashes of purity to show towniness in lylo smh

What a VILLAIN.

(Compliment)

[Achro]

Although while I don't mind everyone ignoring my posts today, cause I get it, if you choose right I really think my thoughts on the three of you will at least be helpful in f3 in understanding how I link cuth/benneh and the possible pitfalls of that logic in places. Confidence is about 90% but I would real time with whoever is alive for sure before voting if at all possible.

[katze]

i plan to vote cuth, ignore all of your posts today, and then vote winston in f3 out of spite

what are u gonna do, stop me?

[nebjiamn]

id understand if i were mafia too but i'm sure you understand its kinda unideal for me when i think you're mafia and think you're very readable if you were to just post

but yeah its basically the same mentality i was going into this day with and then i talked myself out of it

i dont think you're going to get your hammer vote though although winston is voting before you probably because he has a life and we're nerds so i guess thats more INFO for you if you're town

i ... am posting. i didnt hang out last night cause of various reasons but im happy to answer questions about my play but not really interested in engaging on the happenings of today. honestly it shouldnt be some grand mystery about how i'm leaning anyway

if you're v i'm sorry im making it hard on you here but my priority is figuring out today's vote and seeing how you/winston play this out around 'uncertainty' in my vote lol

and ya, i may not get my hammer in some scenarios, but thats fine, cause it'll be valuable info for me anyway or the game will be over. if it comes to f3 and i look bad for it then thats a problem for tomorrows benneh (fuck that guy)

[Achro]

Tbh it's interestin katze how today and sk's defense day 1 mirror themselves. Sk said my problems with his thought process was a difference in mindset. Today benneh, you, and Winston's mindset chafes at me similarly but I know for a fact only one of you is a wolf so I can disregard this as a meaningful difference check.

That's why I said I couldn't argue. There really is no way of knowing if certain mindsets are indicative or just a difference in play. Mafia is fantastic

[Cuthillius]

Tbh it's interestin katze how today and sk's defense day 1 mirror themselves. Sk said my problems with his thought process was a difference in mindset. Today benneh, you, and Winston's mindset chafes at me similarly but I know for a fact only one of you is a wolf so I can disregard this as a meaningful difference check.

That's why I said I couldn't argue. There really is no way of knowing if certain mindsets are indicative or just a difference in play. Mafia is fantastic

oh they're indicative all right

[Achro]

oh they're indicative all right

How so? From your perspective two of them are town as well. What is indicative about their eods iyo?