17er Saints and Martyrs

[Jan]

Ender started to push this weird warped expectation that I don't see likely coming from a wolf.

His focus and Gemma/myself and the lack of reading each other and that clashing with what he wants/expects to happen.

That is such a specific odd nitpick based on a single game that I don't really see a wolf mimicking here.
(plus it feels genuine)

To make this clear for ender after which I will move on:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Gemma and I have a very limited history that can be rather exhausting to even think about. We are friendly these days which is great, but that was not always the case.
We have shared a single game within the last 5 years and you were in that game.

I have no interest pushing for a read on any single person d1 in a game unless I am asked to read that person.
D1 for me is about letting reads come to me while playing the game unless people ask me to do specific work or I want to force reads on EoD wagons for obvious reasons.

In addition to that gemma has stated pregame that she is trying to play a very limited amount of time to not overly engage.
That makes reading a slot I don't feel comfortable reading even harder.
There is simply no reason for me to force any read from my side at this point.

As a small bonus I give you my very unreliable thoughts on Gemma:
I know Gemma was secretly hoping to roll wolf in the anon game I hosted earlier this year.
Assuming the secret hope is the same here she is likely a villager for not being more engaged.
If you add the fact that she wants to commit less time as either alignment all of this gets muddled down to light villa with no confidence.

It is a lazy read because it does not factor in anything she has done in thread, but I don't think any of her words have done anything to me.

[Jan]

Benneh read all but two people. I expect those people are both on the same tier and he just forgot.

It is me and nebjiamn. Lock it in boys.

[ladd]

Ill copy benneh but with 99% less effort

Vvv
Ladd
Zack
Rask
Benneh

Vv
Jan
Dya

V
Murska
Wisdom

Probably v but kinda spooked me at some points (i cannot stress enuf that i get this read will be frustrating for you cause its based on nothing and your posting is perfecy fine but you cant command your heart)
Hally

Blind spots/no well fleshed out thoughts
Ender
Gemma

Lazy package deal
Gh
Logic

I never really talked about logic but i thought he started bad, improved around the time gh dropped the shield and then posted bad again with the vanta push (but last couple of posts a bit better)

I think zack makes good points especially with the difference from the other game but i also cannot not take into consideration that gh villa and logic wolf seems like super unlikely to me? So to me lunching logic before gh today doesnt make much sense and idr wanna lunch gh so uh ya i am kinda stuck with leaving this alone for today


Null line
Vanta-true null
Visor-if syn is a wolf there is a ppst from him that kinda pinged me, otherwise have no real thoughts on him

Good effort but cant shake feeling they are posting wolfy
Artic

W
Syn

[nebjiamn]

uhh, i guess i missed jan somehow when i copied the playerlist and sorted it and wrote that post, but he would be in the same category as ladd and hally i think

[Gemma]

Ender started to push this weird warped expectation that I don't see likely coming from a wolf.

[Gemma]

i'll copy ladd but with 99% less effort

v
zack
hally
rask
benneh

light v
ender
jan
ladd?

light w
gh?

benneh maybe too high but their wallpost is tbh probably the villageriest thing in the entire thread

hally because i find myself mindmelding with a lot of their posts, they seem liek they dont give a shit and just push on whatever big villa energy etc

rask kind of occupying the same space just smaller and more unhinged

jan having basically 3 reads this entire game and 2 of them being v charitable v reads is doing ntohing for his wincon if hes a wolf which im fine with for day 1

gh bad tocuh on logic, havnet hugely liked the way hes spent his ofcus so far this game too lazy to elaborate

everyone else nfc

syn had the thing where he basically ignored me when i asked him why he was w reading ender, he did say things later but eh

murska jan w reads them which predisposes me to do the same, they also seem like the kind of player/style id struggle to get a read on, literally zero opinion

vanta maybe their saying they're just going to read ppl based on avatar is actually openwolfing and i shouldnt be giving them a pass idk

so ye none of the lowposter yeets are particularly inpsiring but ig thats par for the course

[Raskolnikov]

i'll copy ladd but with 99% less effort

v
zack
hally
rask
benneh

light v
ender
jan
ladd?

light w
gh?

benneh maybe too high but their wallpost is tbh probably the villageriest thing in the entire thread

hally because i find myself mindmelding with a lot of their posts, they seem liek they dont give a shit and just push on whatever big villa energy etc

rask kind of occupying the same space just smaller and more unhinged

jan having basically 3 reads this entire game and 2 of them being v charitable v reads is doing ntohing for his wincon if hes a wolf which im fine with for day 1

gh bad tocuh on logic, havnet hugely liked the way hes spent his ofcus so far this game too lazy to elaborate

everyone else nfc

syn had the thing where he basically ignored me when i asked him why he was w reading ender, he did say things later but eh

murska jan w reads them which predisposes me to do the same, they also seem like the kind of player/style id struggle to get a read on, literally zero opinion

vanta maybe their saying they're just going to read ppl based on avatar is actually openwolfing and i shouldnt be giving them a pass idk

so ye none of the lowposter yeets are particularly inpsiring but ig thats par for the course

Ok this is new. Let me digest it gemma.

[Visor]

i'll copy ladd but with 99% less effort

v
zack
hally
rask
benneh

light v
ender
jan
ladd?

light w
gh?

benneh maybe too high but their wallpost is tbh probably the villageriest thing in the entire thread

hally because i find myself mindmelding with a lot of their posts, they seem liek they dont give a shit and just push on whatever big villa energy etc

rask kind of occupying the same space just smaller and more unhinged

jan having basically 3 reads this entire game and 2 of them being v charitable v reads is doing ntohing for his wincon if hes a wolf which im fine with for day 1

gh bad tocuh on logic, havnet hugely liked the way hes spent his ofcus so far this game too lazy to elaborate

everyone else nfc

syn had the thing where he basically ignored me when i asked him why he was w reading ender, he did say things later but eh

murska jan w reads them which predisposes me to do the same, they also seem like the kind of player/style id struggle to get a read on, literally zero opinion

vanta maybe their saying they're just going to read ppl based on avatar is actually openwolfing and i shouldnt be giving them a pass idk

so ye none of the lowposter yeets are particularly inpsiring but ig thats par for the course

[Visor]

syn posts don't do anything for me

i'm not gonna shed a tear if he dies but i don't care about killing him

i'd rather kill murska

[Arctic]

visor's iso is pretty horrendous to the point where idk if i'd actually consider his engagement AI because i know he can do a lot better than this as either alignment
just not really anything beyond surface level thoughts, and idrk why i'm saying this because it's not like visor can't post well as mafia, i just dunno what he's doing regardless of alignment

the actual wolfiest thing imo is the way he voted vanta then took a jab at logic voting vanta with the implication that it was a pretty bad pressure vote when it seemed like that was why he voted them too?

he asked ladd/raskol for thoughts on syn and admittedly between that post and when he came back to the thread neither had posted anything about syn, but when he came back to the thread closer to eod while ladd was there he didn't push the matter any further and last thing they said about syn was this:

syn posts don't do anything for me

i'm not gonna shed a tear if he dies but i don't care about killing him

i'd rather kill murska

i dunno i feel like people are kinda overstating how bad it is even tho it's not great

i'm more interested in why he just decided that murska had to die seemingly out of nowhere

it's hard for me to tell what's AI cuz he doesn't explain a lot and was barely playing and that's why stuff seems surface level wolfy even tho that's not necessarily the explanation

[Visor]

@Zack
@GeneralHankerchief

kill murska

[Visor]

i refuse to reread the thread to check

but the fact i can't recall jan making a mildly humourous jab in my direction is wolfy

[Jan]

i refuse to reread the thread to check

but the fact i can't recall jan making a mildly humourous jab in my direction is wolfy

You are not wrong.
No defense.
I have failed humankind.

[GeneralHankerchief]

@Zack
@GeneralHankerchief

kill murska

Vote: Murska

(#46)

[Arctic]

i'll copy ladd but with 99% less effort

v
zack
hally
rask
benneh

light v
ender
jan
ladd?

light w
gh?

benneh maybe too high but their wallpost is tbh probably the villageriest thing in the entire thread

hally because i find myself mindmelding with a lot of their posts, they seem liek they dont give a shit and just push on whatever big villa energy etc

rask kind of occupying the same space just smaller and more unhinged

jan having basically 3 reads this entire game and 2 of them being v charitable v reads is doing ntohing for his wincon if hes a wolf which im fine with for day 1

gh bad tocuh on logic, havnet hugely liked the way hes spent his ofcus so far this game too lazy to elaborate

everyone else nfc

syn had the thing where he basically ignored me when i asked him why he was w reading ender, he did say things later but eh

murska jan w reads them which predisposes me to do the same, they also seem like the kind of player/style id struggle to get a read on, literally zero opinion

vanta maybe their saying they're just going to read ppl based on avatar is actually openwolfing and i shouldnt be giving them a pass idk

so ye none of the lowposter yeets are particularly inpsiring but ig thats par for the course

this does not spark joy

[Raskolnikov]

Vote: Syn

[ladd]

I also could have done a better job explaining, with more examples etcc.. but i didnt really wanna lead today so i got lazy

[Raskolnikov]

I also could have done a better job explaining, with more examples etcc.. but i didnt really wanna lead today so i got lazy

hard evidence for l8r

[Hally]

i skimmed gemma’s iso and i still don’t really have strong thoughts on their posts

their stuff mostly just passes through me but

i'll copy ladd but with 99% less effort

v
zack
hally
rask
benneh

light v
ender
jan
ladd?

light w
gh?

benneh maybe too high but their wallpost is tbh probably the villageriest thing in the entire thread

hally because i find myself mindmelding with a lot of their posts, they seem liek they dont give a shit and just push on whatever big villa energy etc

rask kind of occupying the same space just smaller and more unhinged

jan having basically 3 reads this entire game and 2 of them being v charitable v reads is doing ntohing for his wincon if hes a wolf which im fine with for day 1

gh bad tocuh on logic, havnet hugely liked the way hes spent his ofcus so far this game too lazy to elaborate

everyone else nfc

syn had the thing where he basically ignored me when i asked him why he was w reading ender, he did say things later but eh

murska jan w reads them which predisposes me to do the same, they also seem like the kind of player/style id struggle to get a read on, literally zero opinion

vanta maybe their saying they're just going to read ppl based on avatar is actually openwolfing and i shouldnt be giving them a pass idk

so ye none of the lowposter yeets are particularly inpsiring but ig thats par for the course

the bolded lines of this post in particular seem wolfy

the first one is one of ladd’s classic interaction tell iirc. basically that wolves are more likely to tmi a lack of interaction from their bros and say stuff like “X is ignoring me” when it’s prob not something they would notice as town. not sure this is the best example of the tell but

then the second one just seems like a lazy wolf read? they ended up voting murska but i don’t get why based on what they say here

[Arctic]

i skimmed gemma’s iso and i still don’t really have strong thoughts on their posts

their stuff mostly just passes through me but


the bolded lines of this post in particular seem wolfy

the first one is one of ladd’s classic interaction tell iirc. basically that wolves are more likely to tmi a lack of interaction from their bros and say stuff like “X is ignoring me” when it’s prob not something they would notice as town. not sure this is the best example of the tell but

then the second one just seems like a lazy wolf read? they ended up voting murska but i don’t get why based on what they say here

this is a good point
the part about vanta is pretty bad too, seems like a pretty dismissive way of handling someone they're saying is openwolfing and openwolfing in an absurd description to begin with lol

[Hally]

i skimmed gemma’s iso and i still don’t really have strong thoughts on their posts

their stuff mostly just passes through me but


the bolded lines of this post in particular seem wolfy

the first one is one of ladd’s classic interaction tell iirc. basically that wolves are more likely to tmi a lack of interaction from their bros and say stuff like “X is ignoring me” when it’s prob not something they would notice as town. not sure this is the best example of the tell but

then the second one just seems like a lazy wolf read? they ended up voting murska but i don’t get why based on what they say here

wow this dude is so villagery

[Arctic]

ender im having a problem seeing that it's hally because her day 2 was just shitting on visor and gemma (and logic, but still)

on day 2 i also dartboarded a team of gemma/gh/visor

how likely do you think it is either of us tear into the last 2 wolves after one died on day 1, moreso for me given that i dont tend to bus

admittedly i stopped pushing on gemma because of the claim but hally wanted her dead much more quickly after the claim than anyone else did

i feel like fypov it should be pretty clearly dya because of pretty level zero reasoning

and now that i'm sure the wolf is either you, or small chance of dya, this game is mildly infuriating that we had a correct poe of dya/wisdom/ender/vanta but if we lose it'll be because the poe was 1 too big and we killed all the villagers in it

[EnderWiggin]

ender im having a problem seeing that it's hally because her day 2 was just shitting on visor and gemma (and logic, but still)

on day 2 i also dartboarded a team of gemma/gh/visor

how likely do you think it is either of us tear into the last 2 wolves after one died on day 1, moreso for me given that i dont tend to bus

admittedly i stopped pushing on gemma because of the claim but hally wanted her dead much more quickly after the claim than anyone else did

i feel like fypov it should be pretty clearly dya because of pretty level zero reasoning

and now that i'm sure the wolf is either you, or small chance of dya, this game is mildly infuriating that we had a correct poe of dya/wisdom/ender/vanta but if we lose it'll be because the poe was 1 too big and we killed all the villagers in it

If you clear me you'll be one closer to not being wrong?

But I'll remind you that Visor also said "Fuck the claim kill Gemma".

I don't think ignoring the claim means anything.

[Arctic]

If you clear me you'll be one closer to not being wrong?

But I'll remind you that Visor also said "Fuck the claim kill Gemma".

I don't think ignoring the claim means anything.

Then why is it her and not dya fypov

[Hally]

If you clear me you'll be one closer to not being wrong?

But I'll remind you that Visor also said "Fuck the claim kill Gemma".

I don't think ignoring the claim means anything.

not sure why you’re conflating my treatment of gemma and visor’s? the context and manner in which we pushed them are completely different

visor pushed them after they softed and he was obv dying because he just wanted to eek out some equity and see if he could spew them before he died

i wolf read gemma and called them out as seeming w/w with syn before they softed anything and before most people were on the gemma wolf train then D4 after their soft had two nights to self resolve and they were still doing nothing while avoiding hard claiming i started to think they were a wolf again because i felt like worlds didn’t really make sense otherwise, and i feel like you can clearly see me grow more wary of letting them skate by as i realized that to the point where i even kinda wanted them dead EoD4

[Visor]

i'll copy ladd but with 99% less effort

v
zack
hally
rask
benneh

light v
ender
jan
ladd?

light w
gh?

benneh maybe too high but their wallpost is tbh probably the villageriest thing in the entire thread

hally because i find myself mindmelding with a lot of their posts, they seem liek they dont give a shit and just push on whatever big villa energy etc

rask kind of occupying the same space just smaller and more unhinged

jan having basically 3 reads this entire game and 2 of them being v charitable v reads is doing ntohing for his wincon if hes a wolf which im fine with for day 1

gh bad tocuh on logic, havnet hugely liked the way hes spent his ofcus so far this game too lazy to elaborate

everyone else nfc

syn had the thing where he basically ignored me when i asked him why he was w reading ender, he did say things later but eh

murska jan w reads them which predisposes me to do the same, they also seem like the kind of player/style id struggle to get a read on, literally zero opinion

vanta maybe their saying they're just going to read ppl based on avatar is actually openwolfing and i shouldnt be giving them a pass idk

so ye none of the lowposter yeets are particularly inpsiring but ig thats par for the course

this post (which is kind of a wolfy summary post (esp for someone who should be much more eloquent making essentially a post i would make)) and then the mass of questions they posted d1 which just kinda don't do anything made me feel bad on gemma

thoughts?

[Visor]

theres two worlds of logic today imo, one where he is defending me to look good when i flip (but he still also has to actually solve the game as a wolf in this world and i don't believe logic is someone who would intentionally take on difficult tasks as a wolf (and theres always the fun argument when you get a contentious read right and then people accuse you of tmi lol))

and the one where he genuinely believes my actions are not coming from a wolf mindset and he is willing to put his neck out for it

for what its worth, the strength behind his conviction makes me heavily believe the latter, obviously i am incredibly biased and not able to judge this stuff fairly, but i have a harder time seeing a world where wolf logic doesn't just take the easy kill on me and i think his conviction is villagery (which is kinda funny considering my read on him d1, but i feel like this kind of conviction from him is just not something i associate with how he plays wolf).

[GeneralHankerchief]

this post (which is kind of a wolfy summary post (esp for someone who should be much more eloquent making essentially a post i would make)) and then the mass of questions they posted d1 which just kinda don't do anything made me feel bad on gemma

thoughts?

Hell with it man, you and I are already w/w apparently, let's make this happen.

Just one request, do not ask why I'm awake at 2am.

[Visor]

Hell with it man, you and I are already w/w apparently, let's make this happen.

Just one request, do not ask why I'm awake at 2am.

[Visor]

@Raskolnikov

vote gemma with me you croissant

Vote: gemma