17er Saints and Martyrs

[Raskolnikov]

jan no offense, but that's the lamest reason to not vote someone I've ever heard. And I've played with people who have voted mech cleared villagers

if arctic is being wolfy now just vote them now. Don't wait for them to continue being wolfy

i mean you told me you think he's being wolfy but dont want to vote him. That's not me asking you to tunnel him, it's me asking why you aren't willing to vote someone you're wolf reading

I feel like Im continuously being misunderstood this game and im frustrated. that's not on you guys, it's clearly on me since I'm the one that keeps having problems

I'd rather vote murska than syn though

well if the options are murska or syn, I'm always voting syn here. But maybe those don't have to be the options

unvote

vote: gemma

Yes Ender, but for instance these post exist. It doesn't look like Gemma was the plan. I can see w!Dya switching to a light bus on Gemma when they saw Syn being the chop and Ladd starting to post stuff like "if Syn flips red, Visor is next" (post 702, two posts before Dya switching to Gemma)

[EnderWiggin]

Yes Ender, but for instance these post exist. It doesn't look like Gemma was the plan. I can see w!Dya switching to a light bus on Gemma when they saw Syn being the chop and Ladd starting to post stuff like "if Syn flips red, Visor is next" (post 702, two posts before Dya switching to Gemma)

Ngl bruv, feels like a stretch. Especially since:
1. Dya's earlier posts easily could cover a Murska vote (he hadn't claimed yet.)
2. If Dya wanted to bus and had "given up" on Syn then voting Syn would be better in terms of value.
3. Gemma is a PR they would want to keep around and there were several people that had talked about sussing/voting Gemma. Voting that and throwing it out like that has a lot more danger than some other options.

But I acknowledge that's not that much stronger than your side. It's partially assumption and I am afraid I might be wrong with it.

Btu there's another reason I kinda townread Dya here.

Gemma has had a strong need to interact with her partners.

Day 1:
Interactions with Flipped Wolf Visor:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

i was about to swap my vote to visor but now the dogged detrermination has set in >:[

i alos have no idea if this is a real read or not lol

i mean i cant even tell if he actually wants to yeet them so like

@Visor wolfy sup who is wolf etc

good question

ask me again in about 7 hours

so when im asleep

ok sure will do

(In reference to Gemma's wallpost)

Interactions with Flipped Wolf Syn:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

why tho

he called me based

ur based

:((

(I already called this out D2 as very w/w looking.)

Both cases they hadn't been interacting and Gemma felt the need to force a weird interaction. Dya also didn't interact with Gemma but there was no attempt from Gemma to push any sort of interaction.

[Hally]

Ngl bruv, feels like a stretch. Especially since:
1. Dya's earlier posts easily could cover a Murska vote (he hadn't claimed yet.)

yes he had, he claimed right before

2. If Dya wanted to bus and had "given up" on Syn then voting Syn would be better in terms of value.

i don’t really agree because i think wolves want logic to have a chance to go over and nobody has cared to give any cred to later syn voters, so it’s a pointless bus

3. Gemma is a PR they would want to keep around and there were several people that had talked about sussing/voting Gemma. Voting that and throwing it out like that has a lot more danger than some other options.

syn was a backup not a goon, so strictly from a role standpoint gemma going over does not matter because syn becomes the role cop

also again, the lunch was always going to be logic or syn. if dya had actually pushed for gemma to die over either of them i would agree with you but they didn’t at all, and then D2 they didn’t push them at all either before the soft (and people like me were wolf reading gemma D2 so it’s not like they weren’t getting talked about but dya had no reaction to it)

[dyachei]

Serious question though. I pointed out her weird entrance d1 and voted her. She was distinctly not towny

Even if syn had backed up Gemma it would have made less sense because he was doing even less than she was. It was always strictly better to go Gemma because in her nothingness she was trying and syn wasn't

Like why are we ignoring that syn was always going to be an elim

[Raskolnikov]

I have started reading Vanta's ISO in their most recent MU game and I'd like some people to do so too. Might be usefull (I haved to go pickup kids at a bd party so will finish later), they were VT there.

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums...rchid=20252793

[Arctic]

ok apparently they dont have any scumgames and i dont know how useful reading just towngames is going to be

[nebjiamn]

you don’t think the gemma spew read is valid? why?

maybe it is, but im just concerned about clearing ender if its not in what everyojne basically deems the given poe of wis/vanta/dya

reading ender v for spew on day 7 or 8 seems like a dumb idea when his content hasn't been very villagery fmpov

its mostly just me struggling to find my 5th villager and worrying about the game state and people just shrugging off any investigation on him because of a read gemma made to open the game

[Hally]

Serious question though. I pointed out her weird entrance d1 and voted her. She was distinctly not towny

Even if syn had backed up Gemma it would have made less sense because he was doing even less than she was. It was always strictly better to go Gemma because in her nothingness she was trying and syn wasn't

Like why are we ignoring that syn was always going to be an elim

im not ignoring it ????

that’s literally why i don’t care that you vanity voted gemma

you’re not responding to what i actually said

[dyachei]

im not ignoring it ????

that’s literally why i don’t care that you vanity voted gemma

you’re not responding to what i actually said

It. Was. Not. A. Vanity. Vote.

[Hally]

im not ignoring it ????

that’s literally why i don’t care that you vanity voted gemma

you’re not responding to what i actually said

oh i misread “an elim” as “the elim [as in D1],” mb

no i agree with you, wolves would want syn dead over gemma EoD1, i just don’t think gemma was ever going to happen and i don’t think you actually made an effort to make it happen besides a vanity vote

but again, this isn’t even why i wolf read you so i don’t want to keep going over it

[EnderWiggin]

As above the one that twigged me most the same way:
Interactions with Vanta:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

oh righjt you exist

hi hello welcome

rescinded btw

Is this because I made one post and got quiet?

Is this.

[EnderWiggin]

Which is very funny given my opinions on Vanta all game long. I think I wanted Vanta to be towning with me and I've been huffing copium and they might just be last wolf.

[Wisdom]

If anyone can check the flipped wolves' interactions with and reads on Dya that'd be nice

I might have time to tomorrow otherwise

[EnderWiggin]

I'm crashing now but I just wanted to add that Benneh being all "omg I have the same read!" with Zack still gives me the voting twitchies.

[nebjiamn]

I'm crashing now but I just wanted to add that Benneh being all "omg I have the same read!" with Zack still gives me the voting twitchies.

thats why i killed him

you're next

[EnderWiggin]

Note: Gemma needing partner interaction doesn't mean that one of the people who she interacted with more couldn't be the other partner.

I mostly bring it up because the complete lack of interest in talking to Dya felt different to how she treated either partner. Or me/Arctic. (Both in my and Arctic's case there was strong appeals/reacting to our reads in exaggerated fashion.

[EnderWiggin]

Also I am so spewed clear between Syn and Gemma lmao.

[EnderWiggin]

Wisdom also doesn't really have interactions but... also never was really in thread at the same time usually so idk how to read that.

I could be offtrack.

[Arctic]

Wisdom also doesn't really have interactions but... also never was really in thread at the same time usually so idk how to read that.

I could be offtrack.

Gemma interacted with wisdom in a similar way to all of her partners but only like once
Randomly said sup and "I pinged you in wolf chat" or something (which imo a wolf would not say about another villager since it'd risk spewing them v, and reads antispew to me) and spoke about something completely inconsequential like how wisdom should be townreading benneh more? and that was their only interaction

[Raskolnikov]

acknowledged Ender. It may be a stretch I agree, but again, w!Dya prolly doesn't want to chop Syn D1, may not want to chop Logic either (because of their D1 read) so may have ended up on a vanity wolf wagon which could be pointed at later (lettuce be real, Gemma was never dying D1 if you remember how it played out)

My point being that your reason to dismiss wolf!Dya isn't valid. (I am not saying my stuff is what happened, but it could be, so your reasonning doesn't stand)

[EnderWiggin]

acknowledged Ender. It may be a stretch I agree, but again, w!Dya prolly doesn't want to chop Syn D1, may not want to chop Logic either (because of their D1 read) so may have ended up on a vanity wolf wagon which could be pointed at later (lettuce be real, Gemma was never dying D1 if you remember how it played out)

My point being that your reason to dismiss wolf!Dya isn't valid. (I am not saying my stuff is what happened, but it could be, so your reasonning doesn't stand)

What about see Gemma and pushing interactions with partners?

[Raskolnikov]

What about see Gemma and pushing interactions with partners?

well I kindof don't wanna too, because you are going to call me obvious wolf for EOD5

[Raskolnikov]

well I kindof don't wanna too, because you are going to call me obvious wolf for EOD5

Keep up the good work though ;)

[dyachei]

acknowledged Ender. It may be a stretch I agree, but again, w!Dya prolly doesn't want to chop Syn D1, may not want to chop Logic either (because of their D1 read) so may have ended up on a vanity wolf wagon which could be pointed at later (lettuce be real, Gemma was never dying D1 if you remember how it played out)

My point being that your reason to dismiss wolf!Dya isn't valid. (I am not saying my stuff is what happened, but it could be, so your reasonning doesn't stand)

Hallys whole case isn't valid but you seem to be giving it credence. No way I bus a pr over a goon when I could easily have swung onto syn

[Raskolnikov]

I kindly disagree Dya, because

- the state of your reads at EOD1 (u even replied to Ladd you and GH were the main "resistors" to Syn's wagon because you weren't seeing the things we were pointing at)
- again, there is no way you convince me Gemma had any chance to go over D1. (so the argument "I am not chopping a PR over a goon" isn't valid to me)

[dyachei]

I kindly disagree Dya, because

- the state of your reads at EOD1 (u even replied to Ladd you and GH were the main "resistors" to Syn's wagon because you weren't seeing the things we were pointing at)
- again, there is no way you convince me Gemma had any chance to go over D1. (so the argument "I am not chopping a PR over a goon" isn't valid to me)

Gemma had a chance. Even gh was thinking about going her.