17er Saints and Martyrs

[dyachei]

rip bronana

gj on syn gang

immediate thought is at least one of logic/visor is ~always a wolf

why the two of them always?

[nebjiamn]

initial thoughts were ender looks ~OK from syn stuff but ill admit its pretty light

my rask ladd and jan town reads are much stronger than before and they were already pretty high

mildly think GH looks decent too

i think visor is probably a wolf but curious to hear why ladd thinks (thought) he was paired with syn yesterday if syn flipped wolf cause i didnt see anything connecting in his iso other than just being wolfy

[nebjiamn]

oh also i mentioned something about not thinking visor could be w/w with logic yesterday and when i reread overnight i thought that was a dumb take

i don't think its likely but its still very much a possibility b/c visor was not nearly as hard on logic as i remembered

[ladd]

Id be pretty surprised if visor isnt a wolf

He pretended to care about mine and rask's reads on syn but he never really truly evaluated syn i feel

He asked me and rask to elaborate on why syn was wolfy for us, when we both already explained it in a way that AT LEAST it should have got him interested in checking what was up with syn instead he didnt really care, idk its a bit unfair i guess but id be surprised if as a villager he just writes syn off like that considering he like us played most org games

The murska push was sooo lazy coming from him imo

Idek why he pushed murska, among low posters murska was def 1 of the better ones

[nebjiamn]

is there maj?

[Totally not Taffy]

is there maj?

Yes but only after every living player has posted.

[nebjiamn]

Id be pretty surprised if visor isnt a wolf

He pretended to care about mine and rask's reads on syn but he never really truly evaluated syn i feel

He asked me and rask to elaborate on why syn was wolfy for us, when we both already explained it in a way that AT LEAST it should have got him interested in checking what was up with syn instead he didnt really care, idk its a bit unfair i guess but id be surprised if as a villager he just writes syn off like that considering he like us played most org games

The murska push was sooo lazy coming from him imo

Idek why he pushed murska, among low posters murska was def 1 of the better ones

:wolfnodding:

[ladd]

Idt ender should be clear off syn

Gh getting credit for his vote on syn is also silly


Not saying they are not villagers, just dont agree with the reasoning eheh

[nebjiamn]

Idt ender should be clear off syn

Gh getting credit for his vote on syn is also silly


Not saying they are not villagers, just dont agree with the reasoning eheh

for gh its not for the vote, i just kinda thinkeod plays out differently (though hard to say because eod definitely played out differently than normal b ecause of the time vs the normal game i'm in)

you are probly right re: ender though

[Logic]

Thinking I had a somewhat unique take on visor wolf, only to see it's been mentioned a bunch already in the gap I hadn't read.

Let me elaborate on dya while I'm here before someone beats me to it: specifically regarding her read on me and GH makes me think I'm seeing perspective slips, not a reevaluation.

Vote: Dya

I will vote visor as well. People that have scammed with me know that I don't bus except by accident or permission.

[dyachei]

Logic I have never been in a game where gh was wrong about your alignment. Maybe it's happened in other games but I'm not omniscient

[nebjiamn]

Thinking I had a somewhat unique take on visor wolf, only to see it's been mentioned a bunch already in the gap I hadn't read.

Let me elaborate on dya while I'm here before someone beats me to it: specifically regarding her read on me and GH makes me think I'm seeing perspective slips, not a reevaluation.

Vote: Dya

I will vote visor as well. People that have scammed with me know that I don't bus except by accident or permission.

what unique take did you have on visor? the only take i remember is you 'conflating him with zack' and he isn't in your previous reads list

[Hally]

Thinking I had a somewhat unique take on visor wolf, only to see it's been mentioned a bunch already in the gap I hadn't read.

Let me elaborate on dya while I'm here before someone beats me to it: specifically regarding her read on me and GH makes me think I'm seeing perspective slips, not a reevaluation.

Vote: Dya

I will vote visor as well. People that have scammed with me know that I don't bus except by accident or permission.

wdym re: bolded? perspective slip how?

[Logic]

And one more thing; if town is dead-set on eliminating me, make it at least one day before LYLO.

[Jan]

Idt ender should be clear off syn

Gh getting credit for his vote on syn is also silly


Not saying they are not villagers, just dont agree with the reasoning eheh

I thought enders case on me yesterday almost always comes from a villager.

He had a certain expectation towards my play and my interactions with gemma and when he didn't see what he expected he thought it to be scummy.
His baseline is wrong, but I don't think as a wolf he can project all of that based on a single game we shared.

Villagery mindset or something like that.

[Hally]

Idt ender should be clear off syn

Gh getting credit for his vote on syn is also silly


Not saying they are not villagers, just dont agree with the reasoning eheh

agree

i think arctic actually looks better from his vote than them

[nebjiamn]

agree

i think arctic actually looks better from his vote than them

arctic looks rough imo

not enough i wana push him today but his eod feels a bit informed

[Hally]

arctic looks rough imo

not enough i wana push him today but his eod feels a bit informed

nah i don’t think he plays it like that as wolf unless logic is one too

caveat that i haven’t actually seen him wolf in a normal game but from how he wolfs in turbos + how i’ve heard him/people who know him talk about his wolf game, he’s a firm believer in bussing being dumb and goes hard powerwolfing so i think w!him would find some reason to either vote logic or at least not vote syn. obv syn was super bussable but i don’t think arctic would really give a shit about that lol. once it became clear it was gonna be syn vs. logic as the wagons i think w!arctic would have made up some reason to push logic not just shrug off the suspicion on him

again ofc doesn’t apply if he is exactly w/w with logic which uh could definitely be the world we’re in lol but i wouldn’t lunch him outside that

[Arctic]

arctic looks rough imo

not enough i wana push him today but his eod feels a bit informed

breh what
if i made the most pathetic bus in existence which gets me zero cred whatsoever i wouldn't be able to show my face round here again

every time i've bussed either in turbos or long form (i cant even remember bussing ever in long form but i probably did a while ago) it's been extremely well-executed and usually a game winning move where i can sense that the wagons are always gonna end up being on wolves and i get in on the action beforehand

but it was clearly far too late for me to get any cred by voting syn - if i was mafia i would have just made up some reason to vote logic or tried to get people to kill gemma or something. i get there's a "looking reasonable" factor but we both know that idgaf about looking reasonable as mafia, and my actions at eod basically boxed myself in to vote a wolf since i was townreading logic and agreeing that with the way syn was playing we were never gonna find them as v + the meta concerns ladd gave at eod, so it was just correct to remove them

blah blah self-meta i know but cmon lol

[Jan]

agree

i think arctic actually looks better from his vote than them

Can you explain why?

I disagree and am curious why you think so.
(I don't think arctic is a wolf but I don't think his vote gives him any points either)

[Arctic]

Bweh, I thought Zack was so threadspewed v that he would be the obvious doc target, but I assume the protect claim might have messed that up in one way or the other.

Off wagon nk implies that Syn was quite bussed*, but I’m willing to let Ender go right now. Ender felt like someone Syn pushed for the sake of pushing someone rather than a distancing attempt.

*If the wagon was pure wolves would be desperate to nuke it. However, if it was *not* pure then it's easier for the bussing wolves to hide in it, as long as it doesn't shrink enough to make it weird that they are alive.

Still got my eyes on Visor tbh. Not sure if Dya would go out of their way to protect a wolf mate who clearly didn't have his heart in the game, leaning v there.

Id be pretty surprised if visor isnt a wolf

He pretended to care about mine and rask's reads on syn but he never really truly evaluated syn i feel

He asked me and rask to elaborate on why syn was wolfy for us, when we both already explained it in a way that AT LEAST it should have got him interested in checking what was up with syn instead he didnt really care, idk its a bit unfair i guess but id be surprised if as a villager he just writes syn off like that considering he like us played most org games

The murska push was sooo lazy coming from him imo

Idek why he pushed murska, among low posters murska was def 1 of the better ones

this case sparks joy

[Arctic]

i didnt mean to quote the first thing it wont get out of my multiquotes wtf

[Raskolnikov]

Id be pretty surprised if visor isnt a wolf

He pretended to care about mine and rask's reads on syn but he never really truly evaluated syn i feel

He asked me and rask to elaborate on why syn was wolfy for us, when we both already explained it in a way that AT LEAST it should have got him interested in checking what was up with syn instead he didnt really care, idk its a bit unfair i guess but id be surprised if as a villager he just writes syn off like that considering he like us played most org games

The murska push was sooo lazy coming from him imo

Idek why he pushed murska, among low posters murska was def 1 of the better ones

Pretty much this Dya. Add to it Murska softed yesterday I didnt find his eod push very villagery heh.

More l8r when I am caught up, but dinner first

[Visor]

Id be pretty surprised if visor isnt a wolf

He pretended to care about mine and rask's reads on syn but he never really truly evaluated syn i feel

He asked me and rask to elaborate on why syn was wolfy for us, when we both already explained it in a way that AT LEAST it should have got him interested in checking what was up with syn instead he didnt really care, idk its a bit unfair i guess but id be surprised if as a villager he just writes syn off like that considering he like us played most org games

The murska push was sooo lazy coming from him imo

Idek why he pushed murska, among low posters murska was def 1 of the better ones

i don't think it would be fair (or charitable ) to say that i pretended to care or truly evaluated syn - the truth is i saw a tally with both you and raskol on it making him a wagon and i vaguely remembered a mention? or something of you asking what my thoughts were on his posts

so i just asked you to elaborate and i don't think i ever read the followup LOL (i don't know why, i probably just forgot about it lol)

i don't think me writing syn off means anything, his posts did nothing for me and thats that, it just looked like syns brand of syn that happens most games, you saw through it, great job, but i obviously could not at that point in time

i will say i didn't defend him either, but i don't think that means much lol

"The murska push was sooo lazy coming from him imo"

yes, it was. obviously. i just thought murskas posts sucked and voted there. i don't think being lazy is inherently wolfy and i'm certainly capable of actually posting reasons to kill people (as seen on the last game i wolfed here!)

this is kinda just a bad post from you that if you didn't just dumpster syn i'd be actively side eying because i think funnily enough it commits the same sin of what you are accusing me of, its just lazy

[Hally]

why the two of them always?

i mean it’s basically what you said, i don’t think the game makes sense if they’re both villas?

that would mean everyone who thought logic was wolfy yesterday are villagers who were wrong on v!logic and wolves didn’t try to take advantage of it when he was sitting right there as a counterwagon to syn (ig benneh could also be the wolf in this world but i’m sponging zack/ladd that he’s not)

it’s also just PoE though, like who are the wolves if they’re both villagers? it gets pretty wonky i think

and just off posting, i mean logic still just seems like a wolf lol

visor i’m not sure has posted wolfy, it’s more like a negative space thing. imo v!visor is usually more memorable or impactful than he’s been here and he’s missing some of the joie de vivre / leeroy energy he usually has. you don’t think so?


tbh i think it’s somewhat likely they’re w/w because in the quote from the v!logic game zack pulled logic was super strong on visor being someone who should never misread him and told people to nuke visor when he flipped town but this game visor wolf read him and i don’t think logic even acknowledged at all? he was hitting zack with sauce but afair completely ignored visor. and then closer to EoD when it was syn/logic wagons visor started pushing murska instead of just going for logic

[dyachei]

i mean it’s basically what you said, i don’t think the game makes sense if they’re both villas?

that would mean everyone who thought logic was wolfy yesterday are villagers who were wrong on v!logic and wolves didn’t try to take advantage of it when he was sitting right there as a counterwagon to syn (ig benneh could also be the wolf in this world but i’m sponging zack/ladd that he’s not)

it’s also just PoE though, like who are the wolves if they’re both villagers? it gets pretty wonky i think

and just off posting, i mean logic still just seems like a wolf lol

visor i’m not sure has posted wolfy, it’s more like a negative space thing. imo v!visor is usually more memorable or impactful than he’s been here and he’s missing some of the joie de vivre / leeroy energy he usually has. you don’t think so?


tbh i think it’s somewhat likely they’re w/w because in the quote from the v!logic game zack pulled logic was super strong on visor being someone who should never misread him and told people to nuke visor when he flipped town but this game visor wolf read him and i don’t think logic even acknowledged at all? he was hitting zack with sauce but afair completely ignored visor. and then closer to EoD when it was syn/logic wagons visor started pushing murska instead of just going for logic

Fair thanks for explaining. I was wondering where the connection was.

Visor or logic first

[nebjiamn]

i mean it’s basically what you said, i don’t think the game makes sense if they’re both villas?

that would mean everyone who thought logic was wolfy yesterday are villagers who were wrong on v!logic and wolves didn’t try to take advantage of it when he was sitting right there as a counterwagon to syn (ig benneh could also be the wolf in this world but i’m sponging zack/ladd that he’s not)

it’s also just PoE though, like who are the wolves if they’re both villagers? it gets pretty wonky i think

and just off posting, i mean logic still just seems like a wolf lol

visor i’m not sure has posted wolfy, it’s more like a negative space thing. imo v!visor is usually more memorable or impactful than he’s been here and he’s missing some of the joie de vivre / leeroy energy he usually has. you don’t think so?


tbh i think it’s somewhat likely they’re w/w because in the quote from the v!logic game zack pulled logic was super strong on visor being someone who should never misread him and told people to nuke visor when he flipped town but this game visor wolf read him and i don’t think logic even acknowledged at all? he was hitting zack with sauce but afair completely ignored visor. and then closer to EoD when it was syn/logic wagons visor started pushing murska instead of just going for logic

disagree with the former half of the bolded

his push on murska and appeal to gh/zack was v wolfy. i think his interspersing of jokes felt wolfy and blendy. think his GH push was even kinda gross cause i couldn't even tell how serious that one was

i also agree with you on the negative space part though. he can be a wolfy villager sometimes but he generally makes up for it and he is missing that part here

[GeneralHankerchief]

Visor has directly appealed to me before to push the vote to his preference at/near EOD as a villa, even when the person I was pushing was a wolf and his preference ended up being town

(second staffgame on MU is the game in question for this, d1 iirc. this would have been July/August(?) 2019)

to a less relevant extent, he's also done it in a mash or two but I don't have specifics on this

this point of information is what's giving me pause from going more full-in on him, knowing it's in his wheelhouse (and to be wrong as well )

however, one major difference is the I guess desperation in which he made his appeal from the staffgame compared to this game, but again I'm not sure how valid it is considering the last one was like right on the bounds of EOD proper and this one was a few hours out (and also in a postcapped game)

tl;dr I'm hedging all over the place

[nebjiamn]

Visor has directly appealed to me before to push the vote to his preference at/near EOD as a villa, even when the person I was pushing was a wolf and his preference ended up being town

(second staffgame on MU is the game in question for this, d1 iirc. this would have been July/August(?) 2019)

to a less relevant extent, he's also done it in a mash or two but I don't have specifics on this

this point of information is what's giving me pause from going more full-in on him, knowing it's in his wheelhouse (and to be wrong as well )

however, one major difference is the I guess desperation in which he made his appeal from the staffgame compared to this game, but again I'm not sure how valid it is considering the last one was like right on the bounds of EOD proper and this one was a few hours out (and also in a postcapped game)

tl;dr I'm hedging all over the place

i have no doubt thats true. its not really the appeal thats wolfy to me its just... idk, gut. murska even though a light poster did not seem like an interesting vote (nor wolfy imo) at all yesterday and i just dont buy that's the type of read he felt compelled to call out to others on. prior to the pr claim it was definitely a bit of a low accountability kill too.

and in contrast to last game here where he and dya pushed on baud d1 instead of going for the vote on a low poster who had wolf equity in a very villagery game he never really considered it (i dont think, i could be misremembering). it just doesn't strike me as on brand for a passionate visor wolf read unless he's got some agenda in the background

[Hally]

i have no doubt thats true. its not really the appeal thats wolfy to me its just... idk, gut. murska even though a light poster did not seem like an interesting vote (nor wolfy imo) at all yesterday and i just dont buy that's the type of read he felt compelled to call out to others on. prior to the pr claim it was definitely a bit of a low accountability kill too.

and in contrast to last game here where he and dya pushed on baud d1 instead of going for the vote on a low poster who had wolf equity in a very villagery game he never really considered it (i dont think, i could be misremembering). it just doesn't strike me as on brand for a passionate visor wolf read unless he's got some agenda in the background

yea i agree

visor is prob the scariest villager i’ve ever wolfed against cuz his wolf reads are so uncannily good and he doesn’t give af about getting caught up in consensus or just killing low posters and stuff so you can’t really predict what he’s gonna do imo

and his murska push is pretty weaksauce by that standard