17er Saints and Martyrs

[Gemma]

i fell asleep and dreamed that i had shit my pants and woke up scared but was quickly relieved that no i had not shat my pants

but then i looked at the screen and saw this mafia game and wished i was back having that dream again

and i was rereading eod2 and i think its genuinely an amount possible 0 wolves were bussing this entire game and they were counting on visor to dodge the yeet somehow but he just got caught between a pr and a slot everyone v read, or maybe he felt he had to go big or no one would bite (or maybe he was setting benneh up for f3 ), or insert option c, whatever the reason i did get the sense he was genuinely trying to not be yote and also i dont know why you even bother otherwise

Visor (7) : Raskolnikov, Benneh, Hally, Vanta, Arctic, Murska, Ladd

literally i v read all these people except vanta and the idea of vanta out on an island bussing visor is idk absurd/comical to me

which would mean the team has to be in logic/wisdom/dya/enderç

which would also mean game is actually not that hard and i dont have to be fucking mortified of history repeating itself

and my lids are so close to closed i cant entirely tell if im not still dreaming

[Gemma]

So I guess I missed a roleblocker claim, too. Who?

we dont have a rb claim benneh said it as a joke

[Gemma]

Do people really have no doubts on logic?

Gonna conserve the other posts for a re read, may try to re read from the start everything since game is not that long/dense

-13

i have my doubts on everyone man i just dont want to think about it because then game becomes scary

[Gemma]

and yes vanta if you are a protective role you should definitely just be ccing murska here

[Vanta Black]

and yes vanta if you are a protective role you should definitely just be ccing murska here

Just so everything is clear, it's not me, I would have cc'd sooner (I think). And put murska much lower on my list.

[Wisdom]

@Wisdom prior to this you mentioned you thought you were right about me as a wolf read because of omgus reasons/how day had started prior to you reading EOD

why did this bolded change after you read eod? I don't really understand. plus, you were at eod and obviously saw visor's flip... did the realization that i was a bad vote come from GH/Ladd/others talking about how i was obvious town from that eod or did you actually see something in the eod that you didn't pick up before?

It had nothing to do with your att. It was a bad vote because your wagon skyrocketed when you weren't even there, with pretty much no one explaining why they were voting you.

I voted you because you were PoE and Visor brought you up as a possible non-gemma wolf, but had I been there for EoD I'm pretty sure I would have gotten cold feet from that flash wagon.

[Wisdom]

i will probably just trust ladd that wisdom is likely v here? but i really don't know how to make sense of her progressions or find her town when in the course of one eod->sod she calls me a

a) wolf read she had and still has based off omgus
b) but also a blindspot she can't get a handle on
c) but also not really interested in killing me, just pressuring me while i was afk (?????)
d) wolfy for visor not voting me (?????)

The appropiate order is b->c->d->a though, I wouldn't say that I had a wolf read prior to SoD3, you were just in my Poe, but seeing your SoD3 posts made me actually think you were wolf for a bit because you were pushing me for no reason I could find town motivated. Now I'm back to not having a clue but l lean town on vibes.

After GH flip my thoughts were "what if the team is ladd/hally" because they both had some weird moments but that’s obviously wrong.

My current logic implies that it could be something like "vanta/logic" but I don't think that makes sense with the obvious "let's kill the strongest players" night kills rather than pr hunting (even though the caught some prs along the way).

Imo night kills points to Rask, but I gotta think that one through before talking more about it.

[Gemma]

sup wisdom

i pinged you in wolfchat pls respond

[Wisdom]

Final Vote Count

Syn (7) : Ender, Ladd, Jan, Raskolnikov, GH, Arctic, Murska
Logic (3) : Hally, Benneh, Vanta
Murska (2) : Visor, Gemma
Gemma (1) : Dyachei
GH (1) : Zack
Ender (1) : Syn
Vanta (1) : Logic
Visor (1) : Wisdom


Vote History
If you made a vote that wasn't counted, please link it to me on discord

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Post Counts

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Stand by for flip and flavour.

As I've previously said, killing off wagon implies Syn was bussed. The way he played also implied he was okay with dying and probably asked his mates to bus him.

That leaves Ender/Rask/Murska.

Murska is def PR right?
Ender I still hard town read
Rask being town is mostly based on his interactions with Syn, but considering they're homies maybe it's a bad idea to put too much cred there...

[Wisdom]

sup wisdom

i pinged you in wolfchat pls respond

Sorry I haven't started my brain yet today so I forgot to log in on msn.

I have a sleeping beauty next to me and wanna go to the bakery to get some breakfast so I'm probably leaving thread soon!

[Wisdom]

Syn, why r u wolfing without me?

But yeah honestly this would be an impressive distancing post

[Wisdom]

I have no idea, I'm obviously missing something.

I think Dya's been a bit townier than I earlier gave them cred for as well.

[Ender Rask Dya Arctic Benneh Murska Gemma] town leans
[Logic Vanta Hally] the box

[Gemma]

Sorry I haven't started my brain yet today so I forgot to log in on msn.

I have a sleeping beauty next to me and wanna go to the bakery to get some breakfast so I'm probably leaving thread soon!

owo

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Gemma]

wisdom i think u should be v reading benneh more than u are

this is somewhat dependent on logic's flip but benneh was pushing visor/logic worlds throughout the game and day 2 never meaningfully entertained a logic yeet over visor.
a) this is a good look because visor was a wolf
b) this is a good look because visor is imo last preference bus on most wolf teams + you can shove onto logic there p easily to win time for visor to come back and pocket everyone
c) pushing that way without really hedging towards logic or anyone else (correct me if my memory of d2 is wrong here) or leaving yourself outs only ever makes sense in a world where benneh planned to take it all the way to f3 which is an insane thing to do on day 2 when you could just not bus the wolf, yes visor's thread position was terrible but again, its visor, everyone w read logic u just yeet logic
c part 2) if logic v then ig you bus more often because the shoving on logic to buy time angle makes you look bad (but then benneh just looks good for pushing wolf instead of villager)
d) now that i'm bringing this up i dont' understand why visor wouldnt have bussed logic for cred eod2 this is unrelated to benneh, wasnt he a viable wagon at that point
e) great now i've confused myself

[ladd]

Vote: GH

(real)

@Gemma why did you wolfread gh here?

(i have started re reading, so far rask is like lack lack clear is my main takeaway, i am still early into d1 tho)

17 i think

[Gemma]

@Gemma why did you wolfread gh here?

(i have started re reading, so far rask is like lack lack clear is my main takeaway, i am still early into d1 tho)

17 i think

iirc it was partially toneread partially the lack of doing things where i felt like he should've been doing them / had opportunity to, extended faffing around, extended my being an idiot

ur on 15 not 17

[ladd]

idk how to read logic, never really have. Visor i'm still waiting for more on. But I do think it's a good look he sort of defended me because it would have been easy to not and I've found him as wolf before. Ender and I have an oppositional view of each other in almost every game. I think he's wolfy and haven't liked his posts, but I'm not very accurate on him

bit weird to say this as w/w?



honestly logic has good toan but i dont get what he is saying (or think he is saying nonsense) in like the vast majority of his posts...so its kinda of a content vs toan read for me. I personally don't really know logic that well

to me syn has blatantly not made any attempt to do things or appear like he’s doing things, feels like he’s just fucking around and daring people to shrug kill him afaict

seems rand unless his meta as wolf is to hard potato

[ladd]

i forgot how rough artic's reads at sod1 were, i guess i should wait for eod2 where i remember them being v villagery

Also, we gotta break the "Logic gets dogpiled d1" trend on the org recently.

Idrc if he's wolf at this stage.

this is kind of a wild post

hello i continue to dislike ender, can we go back to killing him. it would be really fun and i think you would like it

is it bad the bolded kinda seems w/w eheh




wisdom looks really villagery d1


artic/hally are not w/w if someone was scared of that world

[ladd]

but no really

most of his ISO revolves around waffling on arctic and an unexplained vote on jan as his bookends (with a promise that there's a secret reason), before hard turning into a vote on me and saying he sussed me all along

tho this kinda feels more "wolf turning a rvs vote on a villager in a real vote"

[ladd]

I made a huge post detailing my issues with Logic/GH with specific details that were left open to be addressed and both completely ignored it and seem to be actively avoiding interacting with me about the game afaict

Logic has put such little effort into talking about his supposed wolfread on me that it's almost like he's doing a bit with it or something, except he isn't Winston. You think I should read you perfectly but apparently can't be assed to try and help me in that regard whatsoever. But you don't care about explaining or pushing your suspicion about me either, when the vast majority of the game think I am town.

Your Honor, I enter into evidence a game where Logic was a villager:


Completely different person. Just read like 3 random Logic posts on that page, it's so different. GH thinks logic is lock town in this game based on meta????

In a more general sense a villa GH having zero interest in talking about the game with me is just, odd?

If these two are both villagers I dont know what the fuck is going on lol

idk its so hard reading zack's d1 and not killing logic lol

Just realised I'm actually running low-ish on posts and I need to think about ending shitpost hour. Which was fun.

I think Jan needs to be talked about more. Feels like they're sliding under the radar vs the other two games I've had with them. (One I was wolf, the other town.)

More importantly their posting has continued to ping me. (I swear this isn't a "hyperfocus because they sus me" thing.)

#394 especially recently feels like a "Look at these options that are obvious but I'm definitely exploring options."

It also feels non-commital in the way it defers to a townread there.

#81 was the original post that got me sus on them.

Partially because the "Yeah definitely agree with your sus there!" thing on me. Yes. Yes. Self-centric reads shush.

But a lot of the takes in that post were like "Yeah I see what you're saying" rather than really saying much about them.

man i remembered how much i hated this jan wolfread from ender, the reasoning for it just seemed completely nonsensical



@Hally i am almost done with d1 and you seem to have had 0 curiosity about me/rask wolfreading syn based on meta? you say they are rand unless someone has meta...me/rask say we have meta but you dont really explore it much/at all




murska is 100% a villager from eod1 even if they didnt have the cliam btw, no need to tinfoil. idem with rask, they make post like this:

about GH and what I posted yesterday about his chat with Vanta:

It did remind me what he was doing in an hydra game several years ago with my slot (was villa with Tyranno and he was a woof with Zackito): ie take a disconnected villager slot (I was just cramped by the 500 daily posts of the Alison/Mac slot lol) and shake it till it looks like dude isn't playing and is a wolf.

I mean it is obvious Vanta don' t know 80% of the roster, is used to slow games with almost no posting etc. But still GH comes in, and ask for world view in a pressuring maner. Then does nothing with it. I mean aorn Vanta's slot is basically rand. So why bother with it now?
So I figured mentionning it because it's totally in GH's book to spearhead a villa lunch like that. It's not damning but the pattern is there.

Food for thought.

like no chance a wolf write this post

wisdom may be my 3rd strongest villaread from d1 re read tbh (even above benneh!)

dya wolfreading me at eod while i am pushing syn doesnt seem an approach they would take as a wolf? idk i am a bit worried i am being too generous in making this kind of assumption but shrug.jpg

[ladd]

well if the options are murska or syn, I'm always voting syn here. But maybe those don't have to be the options

unvote

vote: gemma

@Vanta Black sap, talk to me about your read on syn d1. You said you were gonna iso them but never did


--20

i'll bbl later to read d2

[ladd]

For someone wolfreading syn i feel ender makes 0 effort to get people to vote there or talk about that wolfread. He spends most of his time talking about his other w reads


Idk i dont think its impossible that he just got stuck with his votr on syn, tried to build up to another wolfread but didnt find the good opening to switch

Syn push on ender is 1 of those true/false pushes, where like either you are super familiar with syn or its just all wifom if its distancing or not

-21

[Gemma]

wisdom may be my 3rd strongest villaread from d1 re read tbh (even above benneh!)

[EnderWiggin]

For someone wolfreading syn i feel ender makes 0 effort to get people to vote there or talk about that wolfread. He spends most of his time talking about his other w reads


Idk i dont think its impossible that he just got stuck with his votr on syn, tried to build up to another wolfread but didnt find the good opening to switch

Syn push on ender is 1 of those true/false pushes, where like either you are super familiar with syn or its just all wifom if its distancing or not

-21

Syn was in lead or equal lead for most of the day. I don't like runaway wagons even if I think it's on a wolf.

[EnderWiggin]

I do agree that Wisdom is town tho.

[ladd]

toan and meta eheh

Syn was in lead or equal lead for most of the day. I don't like runaway wagons even if I think it's on a wolf.

fair enuf i guess

who are the wolves iyo?

-22

[Gemma]

Dear Jan,

I hope this letter finds you well. We're at the lakehouse for the weekend, out here in sunny Illinois. I just got back from the courts, where the rest of them are still playing tennis and will be until the dark pulls them inside, although probably even still beyond then. Yesterday, we were hitting after hours balls like blind old men with canes and trilbies and laughing so hard we likely hadn't a hope of fielding our rackets even had the sun still been out. We still managed to belt a few through the negative space, all the same.

It's all summer and spring here. I wish you could see the mulberry trees loaded with yellow and green over the stream where I'm penning this. You might think there'd been murder for how the water can run red at times. It's so still here. I can hear the water from the lake just a stone's throw away, and occasionally the miniature whirr of a pintail's call. Sometimes a flock of cranes goes over us with their colts, which I suppose makes it easy guess where south might be, imagining the sun weren't around of course. It is, though, and right now there's just a crack of canopy slicing and half the page golden. Kinda think the ink must feel real pretty.

There's a sunburn drawing itself down over my neck and shoulders all the way down past my ass after we went skinny dipping yesterday. I know what you're thinking, but I did wear sunscreen. It must have washed off in the water.

Related to being sunburned, we finished playing through Alan Wake 2 as a group (we shared around the controller in the one save file, which ended up working perfectly because the game frayed our nerves by turns and no one wanted to be at the head of it for long) and it was certainly memorable. I didn't enjoy the combat half as much as Control (which starts out one-note but gets increasingly symphonic), but the atmosphere of the game was every bit a Remedy wonder. I think you could probably play it even if you hadn't played the others, without losing too much from the experience. It occurs to me that the number of flashlights we have back home is zero. We have a couple Fenixes out here at the lake, though. They look like lightsabers.

It's getting dark enough now that I can't much see the pen anymore. I hope the writing hasn't become too messy. Wondering where you are and what you're up to. Maybe one day you'll reply to one of these letters. May that day not come too late.

Eternally yours,
Gemma

P.S., I've been spending an awful lot of time making out with a local boy named Jimothy. He's Finnish, and I haven't understood a single word he's said since I met him.

[Gemma]

toan and meta eheh

oh yes, meta

my favorite

[ladd]

yea hally's posts are too good, i dont think i'd catch them until like f-x if they are a wolf here


(i am in the middle of d2)

[ladd]

it does matter because GH knew how I'd take being told that he wasn't willing to give me the same benefits as visor

but this is my problem with you in a nutshell

you came to the conclusion i was a wolf through other people's posting and you're not willing to re-evaluate when new information comes to light

if you're a villager, I've never seen you tunnel this wrongly before so I don't think you are

this seems like a weird standard to hold artic to? i dont think there is literally anyone who i'd hold to this standard, not even newcomb



i keep going back and forth on dya cause like some of their more emotional posts do seem true (but also maybe nai on a level) but if logic isnt a wolf the angles they have been pushing this game look fairly rough. they didnt really wanna push visor d2 either until half the thread came in hot for them, they didnt wanna lunch syn and tried first to go murska and then after the claim they tried to go for gemma


i am kinda at exactly 1 of dya/logic is a wolf (not just because of the above, also cause there is a visor post from d1 where he defends them both and i just dont think he feels the need to defend 2 villas who are getting hheat there?)

not wolves
ladd
murska
rask
wisdom

benneh
hally
artic

2 wolves here?
dya
ender
gemma
vanta
logic


dya/vanta (i actually think this may be the only dya wolf team that makes sense)
logic/gemma (who else can logic even be with?)

dya/ender (kinda inclined to think this is not it for no particular reason tho lol)
logic/ender (kinda inclined to think this is not it for no particular reason tho lol)

logic/vanta is not w/, dya/logic is not w/w, gemma/ender and gemma/dya are not w/w i think



spitballing thoughts

-24