Tarot Mafia

[EnderWiggin]

Well the problem is like

you have one take on knights/dya and EVERY take you have following that within that sequence is townreading or scumreading people based on if they agree with the take that you had on knights/dya

It's incredibly reactive and even at post 200 I expect more nuance? Like, I disagreed with Knights take but thought he was village for things later in the thread, in that sequence there wasn't really anything at that level of analysis.

Hopefully your posting looks better the deeper I get into thread

I townread Sundae for a call out of Newcomb's thread wolfiness

I scumread Cobalt for a weird read on Sheep re: Locktowning Stett.

I townread Stett for their opener.

All of the above was in the 200-215 range.

Also Sunbae (Townread at the time) didn't agree with me on Knights from memory.

[EnderWiggin]

maybe, I replaced C0balt who you were sussing for townlocking sheep

I somehow didn't properly cognize this beyond "Dolby in the game!"

Well that's a sad turn of events.

[EnderWiggin]

I'm keepin' catching up.

Depression.

[Dolby]

I'm keepin' catching up.

Depression.

same, I'm all the way to 397

[EnderWiggin]

I've got reasons to believe Sheep was killed by town btw

I probably agree with this.

But I hate it. :/

[Dolby]

Vote: Maple

Ender want to make a read on me off of this?

I haven't liked Maple's earlier game posts and they are way to high up in Syn's reads list

[EnderWiggin]

Vote: Maple

Ender want to make a read on me off of this?

I haven't liked Maple's earlier game posts and they are way to high up in Syn's reads list

Any specific posts you can point me at? I honestly don't have a good grasp on Maple as a whole.

[EnderWiggin]

Oh I haven't said this but Monty's EOD was pretty towny of him IMO. Some of the D2 start also feels a lot like the game I ML'd him when we were both town, and I like to think I learn from mishammering =P

[Dolby]

Any specific posts you can point me at? I honestly don't have a good grasp on Maple as a whole.

Truth be told, no. I havent even read Maple's full ISO. However, the posts that Maple had that I've read so far have been pretty empty and besides saying "sorry about the rand" in a way I took as nonserious, were generally not fully game related. I wouldn't be townreading them on their own. The main reason I call out Maple specifically is that Dya and Gemma at least had stuff in the thread. I wouldn't be townlocking them either but they at least have stuff in the thread. Syn places all three in his top tier and it's just like... why. I feel that the way Syn did that was elevating a teammate rather than TMIing a villager cause like, he could have put Stett or Grr up in that tier instead yaknow

town:
newcomb
maple
dyachei
gemma

idk fine i guess:
nebjiamn
didistetter
sunbae
grr
insomnia
c0balt

i can't recall a single post/no opinion:
arctic
vanta black
theknightsofneeee

why (diet version):
enderwiggin
colonellubriderm

why:
raskolnikov
wisdom
jan
sheepsaysmeep



are hally and montmorency actually playing this game or are they in the player list for the lulz

[didistetter]

I have no idea what game you are talking about.

My role was changed from [tarot card] to Reverse [tarot card]. I am now an inverted card. It is unlikely that wolves would use a negative action on me because *literally why would they*, so my presumption is some villager inverted me and that *something* is gonna happen to me. I do not know specifically what the mechanics at play here are.

For more information, check out the Wikipedia page for tarot reading.

@Maple

Sorry, thought I was clear but ig this is why posting when you wake up at 2am is a mistake :wowee:

In visor’s recent secret game on MU, where you endgamed as villager, mafia had a “crab spy” which had the ability of “once per game you may target a player and reverse the effect of their role (if possible) or sabotage the role.”

That’s immediately where my brain went when you claimed inverted, so it just kinda startled me it wasn’t even a thought for you, but maybe I’m weird and remember maf stuff too long, which is entirely possible. I assumed you should have a level of memory and awareness of it, which might inform your reaction here.

---

@Vanta Black sorry for being confusing: BM = bad manners, I def didn’t contextualize the post enough since it was mostly directed at maple, but I realize that was inconsiderate towards thread as a whole.

Reading mu pregame was more to get a sense of the hosts style and typical roles to make sure he wasn’t a massive fan of like… godfathers and death tailors

It was a one shot ability in the game I’m referencing, and if it is a real ability in this game that permanently “inverts” a role, I’d assume it’s one shot here too. So by “burnt their inverse” I meant, used up a one shot ability (if it even exists here)

---

@nebjiamn idk how that ability worked out in practice before, sorry, hopefully the above clarifies enough?

---

ack #1437 @Jan

Feels like a weird fps and I struggle to see town motivation for just putting fake info in thread, but. Acknowledged

[didistetter]

Oh I haven't said this but Monty's EOD was pretty towny of him IMO. Some of the D2 start also feels a lot like the game I ML'd him when we were both town, and I like to think I learn from mishammering =P

explain pls?

[EnderWiggin]

explain pls?

I remember him mentioning the Syn wagon looked good and he didn't want to go Knights. (Who was a major alternate wagon.) That doesn't feel like someone who is partnered unless he was gonna bus, which he didn't.

Also his unvote when Rask was 4 and Syn JUST got put to 3, to make it 3/3/3 also doesn't feel partnered. Esp with him not revoting to push a different option.

[didistetter]

I remember him mentioning the Syn wagon looked good and he didn't want to go Knights. (Who was a major alternate wagon.) That doesn't feel like someone who is partnered unless he was gonna bus, which he didn't.

Also his unvote when Rask was 4 and Syn JUST got put to 3, to make it 3/3/3 also doesn't feel partnered. Esp with him not revoting to push a different option.

mmmmmm

why do you consider saying a wagon looks good but avoiding it unpartnered? felt like avoiding the wagon while trying to distance to me.

i actually really hated the unvote, its something ive seen a *lot* from maf recently with contentious wagons. they dont want to join the wagon on partner b/c their previous approach to the slot doesn't justify it, and it would risk getting called out as a busvote, so they unvote the cw as light distancing.

i think insomn voting and making it 3/3/3 would def be easy to anticipate from wolves that it put syn at major risk, b/c knights and rask (if town) could self pres there, and i/dya had previously indicated interest in the wagon, so it could easily build, which it did. both knights and i almost instantly voted syn after insomn made it a viable option.

i don't really buy either of these as pros for mont

[grr]

@grr can i hear why rask is in that townpile for you?

he's like

giga viably paired with syn imo.

curious what you're thinking to the contrary?

i actually tr dya off eod stuff. i agree the show post felt potentially cred grabby, but they ditched voting syn to vote on the same wagon as syn, despite sheep not having a real chance at going over

that feels like kinda an uninformed progression?

honestly it just read it and it felt like a rush gth godread that you just wanna do cuz you're in a good mood and dont really wanna play serious mafia (he said he was like, on a beach which kinda fits with that). and then when he was pointed towards stuff pointing into other direction he seemed p. honest in the way he backpedaled, like he just acknowledged he missed something and moved on.

maybe its not a slamdunk v read and i probably sound tonally more excited about this then is warranted but thats my take on it. the fact that he is apparently a known "syn godreader" or whatever also makes me feel like, he'd maybe more careful in... not associating immediately? like idk this playerlist is kinda scary and if he's just yolo-lol-v-reading his partner like that with all these big heads around i have mad respect for the carefreeness rofl.

@didistetter


also. the unpairing bop did between rask/jan feels fine. remind me that I believed that later if it becomes necessary.

I dont know what an inverter does btw. I will look it up later ig.

---

I wanna talk about Sunbae for a bit. I do read his posts and i feel like the way he has absorbing the v-read on me is like more a clinched-teeth kinda deal than him actually *love* doing it, becuz well its hard to explain i guess he just like, keeps bringing my name up as a contentious slot that needs to be cleared. This doesn't really match with how the thread is reading me. From what i have seen arctic, stett, insomnia, ladd have been all putting me in "pure" tiers of their reads lists. i assume they are not all wolves with me, so whose reads is sunbae exactly mistrusting enough that he needs to dig into that regularly. (and thats just the alive players, both dead villas also v-read me, well ig newcomb didnt v-read me but his last thoughts were has no teammates or something thats a v-read. if im a wolf im proud to have fooled newcomb ngl)

That kinda started yesterday but let me outline with one example from today:

catching up I was at something like knight/sheep/Maple/Jan/Grrr as immediate POE but like I am prolly going to start over considering my record so far lol. Jan and Grrr being somhow ego reads (and since I am villa I can totally see Jan pushing a counter wagon on me at EOD). Grrr vote record stinks (he also literrally voted me for reading him in good faith lol, prolly sponging Sunbae too but) and he have had some of the most LAMIST post itg so far, but i dunno, his posts are pure. Might still be worth looking into more iyam.

I am gonna have more time toDay too so dw, u will get plenty of thoughts from me :p

Wait let me reread Grrr if the votes are bad one sec

Sunbae's reaction to me being sussed.

@Sunbae stett is great

if you mean my thoughts on your 0-1 tier, benneh is nowhere near a TR for me. the rest i agree with.

if you're asking what my 0-1 tier would look like:

grr
ColonelLubriderm
Insomnia
Arctic
dyachei
Theknightsofneeee

Ok can you break down Grr for me? I'd love to be able to lock that one in

Sunbae's reaction to me being towncored.

To me it reads more like he loved the first thing and does *not* love the second thing becuz there is like some "hip hip hooray" energy I feel behind the first reaction here.


sunbae can't actually read me btw which is fine that's why i am reading him by how he is dealing with other people reading me, because I do know that he does respect others filling in gaps a lot and he is, from what i know, completely happy to sponge reads on people he just can't sort.

benneh said in one post of sunbae is kinda stubborn when collaborating it's a wolf sign. This is the vibes I'm getting. A wolf who is starting to have trouble not getting his team boxed in.

Also while sunbae benneh and dya are reading each other in mysterious ways, Newcomb seemed unenthused by sunbae's explanations (for both of them as I remember), and so am I. I feel like there is likely TMI reading/pocketing or maybe partnery reading going on.

---

I laughed at bop n1inning vanta. The original post by Vanta also made me giggle so I understand it and will pretend it's a great read (its probably kinda mildly v).

ngl i dont care at all about raskol sussing me seems just kinda doing his own thing and not being aware of much and just being kinda oblivious about that half the table has townlocked me which is probably more towny than it is wolfy lol. (this is just a mild read I just kinda like the idea of riling him up even further now)

Also. In my first post today I had a comment about dyachei that I asked for feedback on because it was kind of a personality/meta take or however you wanna call it and I am a bit surprised no one took that and kinda, told me what they think of it.

completely elitist ping selection: @Arctic @insomnia (if ur not getting pinged i either dont know u or im scared of u (in this game xD))

Vote: Sunbae

I'm also gonna vote here cuz why not when I think that.

[grr]

I forgot Enderwiggins is in the game, thanks for reminding me of that fact I will do nothing with. toodles.

[Sunbae]

if i were to simplify my thoughts around ladd, cuz according to the TOP PHILOSOPHY, the truth is simple and doesn't require a lot of words

ladd, this game, has felt to me like he took every. single. opportunity. to poke at a villager for surface level reasons that i just think he'd never bring up if he genuinely thought about the game

if ladd is here i wanna ask if he thinks this is a fair description of him. examples im thinking of: sheep, jan, gemma (though this one's harder to not give him some cred for).

the actual spicy reads he had that i'd 100% villa read him for, he just backed away from as fast as he started them and he didn't go back / is not prodding there at the moment. benneh is one name that comes to mind. also they have a dynamic where they both take pride over their reads on each other (or at least i know for sure ladd thinks benneh is a top 2 reader of him) and i don't remember them trying to read each other much (other than ladd's push that i give 0 cred for cuz it vanished into thin air. i dont get how ladd is not focusing on sunbae / benneh here but maybe im unfair /shrug). i find it really odd benneh didn't mention his ladd read when there were a few people pushing him

sunbae is really on his own island with anti-consensus reads but he doesn't seem to care a ton. idk how to interpret that, i just know i'd give him 0 cred for anything at this point in time. for anyone villa reading him, if your reasons revolve around TOAN or things of that nature, then just drop it. i think it's wolfier for him if his tone sounds good, but admittedly this is how i perceive him

blah you just wrote a few sentences on why im a villager and then didnt get to the right conclusionnnnnnnnnnn

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I can't help myself it's time to talk about me! I'm a polarized player if you know what to look for because I'm doing two totally different things when I village or wolf. It's why people like Visor just snap me off. Most people try to read me through a lens of "is she making logical cases and consistent arguments? Is the tone good? Is there fire?" and like, you're just gonna struggle if that's the case. The tone is gonna be fine as a wolf, I'm going to have fire usually because my brain won't let me not care/try hard, and the arguments/cases/defenses I put out are going to be mostly sound because I'm trying hard to make them be mostly sound. Thats why people think it's hard to read me! But it's not if you just know what to look for. As a wolf I'm full of agenda and every single thing I'm doing has a purpose. Whether it's to get in the right thread position (towney but not in a way where people wonder why im not dead in four days!), getting credit for future flip, defending partners, getting the thread in the right vibe to make wolfing easier (zomg everyones so villagery! mechanics twisted hunting! everyone take it easy we dont need to dig through stuff we're doing well as is! things like that), etc. When I village I'm just kind of doing my own thing, out on an island, making my reads, trying to get people to listen to me a bit (and then getting mildly flustered when nobody does), all over the place, and sometimes things just dont make sense because I'm exploring options or making mental mistakes or jumped from point a to point d and missed something along the way etc. I've joked before that people find me more villagery when I wolf and it's because I do things people find villagery as a wolf and just do things that help me solve the game as a villager (note: i am not saying people always find me villagery as a wolf or anything, just like making a more often general statement etc).

So in this game I've made hard, consistent reads I believe in. They've been on an island, people don't really agree with me for the most part but I just keep them because they are real reads and not things I'm trying to get thread position for. I don't really care much about what people have me as outside of when two people are saying opposite things about me and finding me wolfy for them (knights/ender, rask calling me consensusy and others asking me wtf im doing) which is objectively funny (and understandable! different people have different things they find wolfy!) I care zero about future positioning (i didnt even vote, got distracted by reading through stuff and bouncing posts back and forth before i left and forgot to). I'm just existing as I am and have zero attempts to throw weight around or adjust the gameflow or anything really.

But this is always the fun part of these things (and why I inevitably end up talking about it every game!): I can say all these factual statements and nobody can really believe them because we're in the game and it's impossible to take them at face value while its going on (and post game people don't really care enough to go back and check because so much more interesting thigns happened and everyones exhausted anyways). Like from my pov I am an obvious villager (like, legit obvious villager not the funny meme one I say about myself to make benneh laugh in turbos). Alas, who can believe me when I could be lying :(

Ok that's that but I'm glad I got to do it

[Raskolnikov]

not voting toDay

1. dyachei > they feel like their usual villa. reads, reevals, visible frustration for being sussed for lolsies. Not sure them trying to tie me up with Syn at SOD is AI, will see what they make of it. voted Syn
2. Arctic, Just feel villa, determined pushing his reads, (some of them I actually noded along - coucou Mapoule), punted a wolf
3. Didistetter. first game with them (outside recent mash), feels good tonally, solvey all around, coming with original and usefull hindsights/perspectives (Ladd/Benneh on top of my head) that help solving imo

prolly just villagers too

8. Ladd > allready posted enough about him I guess. I think if he was wolfing with Syn I'd be dead. not in the upper tier because #thefear
10. Gemma much more content than the game they woofed here earlier this year. detrimental to getting Syn yeeted.
13. insomnia prolly villaging too. I was afraid me clearing him for microreasons D1 was dumb since I generally have him villa faster (Bennehs game we played in may at MU being an instance, I had him lock villa D1), but I dunno, he sounds like solving villa!insom with a dose of "I am getting D1ed in every mash" ptsd

true nulls

4. Vanta Black. can go either way. I am, dunno how to phrase it correctly so excuse me if it hurts, getting a bit bored at the "I am an overwhelmed noob" attitude ( particularly because I've seen it as either alignment, on various sites) (take that shade Vanta, with love)
5. nebjiamn. Think benneh hasn't started playing. Noted an interesting post about how to read Sunbae, with a town lean on Sunbae, which helps. (tier are unordered but he is the null I feel the best with Sunbae)
6. Sunbae, prolly villaging. Lilked their stance on dya. Felt townie and based. (yes I am a sucker for pockety post lol, can't help it) Liked their reaction to me confusing them with sheep and expressing a sus. He isn't on the above tier because I feel he is still lacking some solving effort (for Sunbae I mean, sorry to have you in high regard, I know it's annoying to be expected a delivery every other game) and also #thefear2 (sorry I still remember that small game from 2 years ago u did us good friendo)
21. C0balt (now Dolby). really null. nothing to say (didn't notice Cobalt posting, just people giving him a day pass for irl reasons; Dolby not ketchup; pending)

trending down nulls

11. grr people say they are pure and villagery. Still didn't like their votes on Newcomb and me and the reasoning behind them (Newcomb not having a solve 10 hours in and me reading him in good faith in their clash with Maple lol. Like he posted a lot of stuff but he chooses this reason to cast his final vote... riiighht). Didn't like most of their lamist posts
12. EnderWiggin lol openwolfing as usual (add to that dude rands wolf more often that I eat cheese and baguettes)
16. ColonelLubriderm need to read more. But disliked their opening and their push on me. Well people say this is villa!Bop for the most part but I don't like it still. Prolly worth a full ISO before EOD2.
19. Montmorency null. But I noticed he tryed to pocket me, which feels "unusual" to say the least. Nothing damning but prolly needs to produce more content for me to get there
14. Wisdom (<3) Not sure how to say it but I think they have tryed to misrep me multiple time already
- when they talked loudly about me not wanting to rand wolf this game - lmao as if they were tones of peeps willing to woof in this village, come on - but surprisingly never told the thread I promised to kill them immediatly too in that world
- when they talked about my stance on Bop
- when they exchanged with Jan about what I'd do wolfing with Syn (like it's dumb to think I actually know what I would do in the first place. depends of opponents, his thread position, mine, general game plan etc... I mean I can post science fiction to shade people too)
> They aren't lower because I have a bad record with them and they have their very special way of producing reads. But like, I have a bad taste on my mouth.

immediate POE

9. Jan, allready posted about him. Not convinced about their EOD posts and their explanations. His PR post is so fucking wolfy I won't write an essay about it but yeah
18. Maple. Working on small pings, lacking global solving. inverted what. See artic's ISO for details. He does match what I remember from villa!him tonally but it is dumb for such a player. Feels performative (somebody with more Manti xp tells me if that's AI)
20. Theknightsofneeee Bad entrance, meh follow up, noded along when cased by Newcomb. Tunneled on Jan (they aren't prolly with them so I am wrong somewhere but it's my read aorn, help me getting there)

These are prolly dumb, lacking, but that's the business state rn. I could use town cases on my POE and tell me why me villa reading some folks feels off. Sorry some of them are ego reads but I have been lacking time D1 and couldn't sponged all the thread (need to threadcamp for that, skill issue)

[Sunbae]

watching something thank a post where someone else votes you hurts more than i thought it would

down with the thank feature

[Sunbae]

we can add wolfy for being stubborn and wolfy for having no impact/strong thoughts to the funny "two people call me wolfy for opposite things" list

[Sunbae]

"if ladd were a wolf id be dead" is a very interesting take that im gonna keep in mind when i reread eod, rask

[Raskolnikov]

what's the vc rn?

[didistetter]

@Gemma what about my play today reads as powerwolfy to you?

i'd like you to unpack that and explain it out a bit pls, cause it kinda feels like a random pot shot, so im curious what the thoughts are behind it

---

Vote: Dolby

---

@Sunbae so unfortunatley the tldr of why i tr grr is: meta. i've played with him a fair amount and he's pretty stilted and frozen as a wolf. the stream of consciousness and overexplaining and relative highposting here is all pretty far out of his scumrange, and there's a tonal purity he just really hasnt been able to replicate well as scum before.

I can pull up posts and walk through them if you need me to, but, everyone who is familiar with grr is towncoring him, so, that's p significant here

(also this post at eod just felt very loltown) #1205

[Sunbae]

mmmmmm

why do you consider saying a wagon looks good but avoiding it unpartnered? felt like avoiding the wagon while trying to distance to me.

i actually really hated the unvote, its something ive seen a *lot* from maf recently with contentious wagons. they dont want to join the wagon on partner b/c their previous approach to the slot doesn't justify it, and it would risk getting called out as a busvote, so they unvote the cw as light distancing.

i think insomn voting and making it 3/3/3 would def be easy to anticipate from wolves that it put syn at major risk, b/c knights and rask (if town) could self pres there, and i/dya had previously indicated interest in the wagon, so it could easily build, which it did. both knights and i almost instantly voted syn after insomn made it a viable option.

i don't really buy either of these as pros for mont

Hmm, I'm with ender on this one. Like here you're saying it was easy to anticipate the Syn wagon popping up in real time (bleh, missing eods is hard cause you dont get the actual feels of what was going on) but even still monts actions are not really doing anything against it right? Like, he's not ignoring it and hoping it doesn't happen because he talks about it, he's not dissuading from the wagon because he's calling it the pure, if he's anticipating it like you said he's not getting on early for credit nor staying off other wagons entirely, I just don't see an agenda here and think it makes more sense as villager uninformed eod posting

[Sunbae]

@Gemma what about my play today reads as powerwolfy to you?

i'd like you to unpack that and explain it out a bit pls, cause it kinda feels like a random pot shot, so im curious what the thoughts are behind it

---

Vote: Dolby

---

@Sunbae so unfortunatley the tldr of why i tr grr is: meta. i've played with him a fair amount and he's pretty stilted and frozen as a wolf. the stream of consciousness and overexplaining and relative highposting here is all pretty far out of his scumrange, and there's a tonal purity he just really hasnt been able to replicate well as scum before.

I can pull up posts and walk through them if you need me to, but, everyone who is familiar with grr is towncoring him, so, that's p significant here

(also this post at eod just felt very loltown) #1205

hey meta is good no need for unfortunate. makes it harder to explain but im cool with rolling with it

[didistetter]

what's the vc rn?

Maple (2) Ladd, Dolby
Nebjiamn (2) Gemma, Wisdom
Enderwiggin (1) Nebjiamn
Jan (1) Theknightsofneeee
Raskolnikov (1) Enderwiggin
Sunbae (1) Grr
Dolby (1) Didistetter
Not voting (10) Insomnia, Arctic, Maple, Jan, dyachei, ColonelLubriderm, Raskolnikov, Vanta Black, Sunbae, Montmorency

[didistetter]

Hmm, I'm with ender on this one. Like here you're saying it was easy to anticipate the Syn wagon popping up in real time (bleh, missing eods is hard cause you dont get the actual feels of what was going on) but even still monts actions are not really doing anything against it right? Like, he's not ignoring it and hoping it doesn't happen because he talks about it, he's not dissuading from the wagon because he's calling it the pure, if he's anticipating it like you said he's not getting on early for credit nor staying off other wagons entirely, I just don't see an agenda here and think it makes more sense as villager uninformed eod posting

?

but that's exactly what he did tho

he unvoted rask as syn wagon was regaining traction, and then stayed unvoted.

Mont's entire VH from D1:

Montmorency votes Raskolnikov p#1170 ?4
Montmorency unvotes Raskolnikov p#1187 ?3

thats it.

he made rask top wagon, and then when people took issue with it and pushed elsewhere, he just hopped off and didn't push anything

i truly dont see how that reads as uninformed villy

[Sunbae]

Man sometimes I swear everyone just pretends they know how to play this game and is really just throwing darts at a dartboard for their reads.

I mean, yeah! thats 100% what i do lmao

[ColonelLubriderm]

wats the good word friends

[Sunbae]

?

but that's exactly what he did tho

he unvoted rask as syn wagon was regaining traction, and then stayed unvoted.

Mont's entire VH from D1:

Montmorency votes Raskolnikov p#1170 ?4
Montmorency unvotes Raskolnikov p#1187 ?3

thats it.

he made rask top wagon, and then when people took issue with it and pushed elsewhere, he just hopped off and didn't push anything

i truly dont see how that reads as uninformed villy

Let me try rephrase cause I think that didn't get explained properly:
I interpreted your post as saying it was easy to anticipate that the Syn wagon was going to happen so we should not give any credit for the syn wagon is pure post Mont made. I was saying if Mont was anticipating that it was going to happen like you suggested he didn't really do anything to get credit for it by getting on early and didn't just avoid other wagons entirely. He hopped on Rask and then hopped off. I just don't think you can dismiss positive points (basically calling the Syn wagon best) because you think it was easy to anticipate while also not pointing out that if he DID anticipate it then he didn't really do anything about it you know? Is this one of those things that makes sense in my head and not in text? I feel like it might be

[Sunbae]

Kinda vibing with Jans judgement post hmmm