Tarot Mafia

[nebjiamn]

Kinda feels like Dolby is TMIing me tho

really?

he feels town to me from what i've read so far

i was just gona say i doubt the game is (as) easy (as implied by a wolf death d1) because of that but i kinda dont know if i have a full enough grasp of everything yet to be so declarative of that

[nebjiamn]

I dislike that post because I don't think that Rask and Wisdom are likely Syn teammates, I think that it's a perspecitve that's kinda just ignoring the posting from Syn's direction. Wisdom for example I strongly doubt is a Syn teammate just because I feel that his posts directed against them just aren't posts he specifically makes ata teammate. I also think that it's a very exaggerated read on Syn's town vs wolf play. I dislike that he's using Rask as a shield for Syn, especially since Rask had some popularity as a wagon

I'm also disliking both of them characterizing my post as "wanting them to dome", it was a read on how votes went down at eod1 and is not solid, but it feels like a awful mischaracterization

@Dolby can you link what posts from syn you are talking about re: wisdom? i just scanned his iso and didnt see any but ISOs here kinda suck so i prob missed it

[Dolby]

That I'm not super familiar with Gemma or Vanta but I still think they both have wolf equity (unlikely w/w tho). Are you familiar with them?

Not particularly but here's how I feel on them

I only specced Vanta's champs qual but in spec chat I felt like Vanta was wolf pretty much instantly the moment they started posting, I feel like they are notably less stilted here, less artificial. I don't think that their content thus far is unfakeable but yeah (like, I don't understand why one person who I've forgetten literally has Vanta as their top TR but the slot is probably town)

Gemma I think had a good looking EOD but I also didn't like some early posts from them.

[nebjiamn]

@Visor any chance you could put links in the OP to the deaths or SOD/EOD notifications so they're kinda easier to find? pls and ty

[nebjiamn]

@Dolby can you link what posts from syn you are talking about re: wisdom? i just scanned his iso and didnt see any but ISOs here kinda suck so i prob missed it

or were you saying wisdom's posts at syn? the pronouns confused me maybe

[ColonelLubriderm]

Not particularly but here's how I feel on them

I only specced Vanta's champs qual but in spec chat I felt like Vanta was wolf pretty much instantly the moment they started posting, I feel like they are notably less stilted here, less artificial. I don't think that their content thus far is unfakeable but yeah (like, I don't understand why one person who I've forgetten literally has Vanta as their top TR but the slot is probably town)

Gemma I think had a good looking EOD but I also didn't like some early posts from them.

vanta is the light in the darkness

you can't deny truth

[Raskolnikov]

P41 on default settings benneh (25 ppp iirc)

[Dolby]

@Dolby can you link what posts from syn you are talking about re: wisdom? i just scanned his iso and didnt see any but ISOs here kinda suck so i prob missed it

Yeah it's specifically this

looks at my poe

looks at this post

looks at my poe

looks at this post

surely it cannot be

I think for most people it's a fakeable post to be clear but from my one time wolfing with Syn I think that this is a post that he avoids making about a teammate. I feel like he tried avoiding attacking teammates reads, which this is kinda doing. I also think that this puts him in a awkward position down the line if Wisdom is ever pushed, he kinda has to go for Wisdom (I do not think this necessarily extends to Jan though (subject of the post by Wisdom this is quoting). That's the quick and dirty of it, strongly might be a bit strong, but Rask and Wisdom were basically the two names I came out of Syns ISO feeling that they werent his teammates (ie. from Syn's direction specifically)

[theknightsofneeee]

Man-standing-up-in-court.jpg

I think dolby is villagery.


also

0 wolves hopefully, maaaaybe 1:
Dya
Insom
Colonel
didistetter (this is more going off others)
neb


Probably a wolf here but theyve been villagery enough and I'll deal with it later
Grr
Maple
Knights
Arctic
Gemma


Most woofs in here (unordered)
Ladd
Wisdom
Jan
Rask
Mont
Ender
Vanta



but im sure when i reread more and interact this will shake up some

I line up with this reads list almost exactly, only slight differences would be i would move arctic down 1 and move wisdom up 1

makes me feel slightly better about sunbae.



Ladd still feels wolfy to me, but i appreciate him pushing jan for my exact reasoning for wolf reading jan.

WRT jan, i super know i could be tunneled here, but i feel way less bad about it because at least 3 people have brought up my exact reasoning for wolf reading you, and while some think it is unlikely to make you a wolf, it makes me more confident that i'm not just full blinders on.

Raskol has been underwhelming for me today.

[theknightsofneeee]

who did dolby replace in for btw?

somehow i missed that lol

[Dolby]

tbh I was heading into day thinking Raskol wasn't with Syn and I wanted to defend Raskol, but the deeper we get into day the less I'm feeling it

[nebjiamn]

Yeah it's specifically this



I think for most people it's a fakeable post to be clear but from my one time wolfing with Syn I think that this is a post that he avoids making about a teammate. I feel like he tried avoiding attacking teammates reads, which this is kinda doing. I also think that this puts him in a awkward position down the line if Wisdom is ever pushed, he kinda has to go for Wisdom (I do not think this necessarily extends to Jan though (subject of the post by Wisdom this is quoting). That's the quick and dirty of it, strongly might be a bit strong, but Rask and Wisdom were basically the two names I came out of Syns ISO feeling that they werent his teammates (ie. from Syn's direction specifically)

gotcha. makes sense but i honestly didn't even put two and two together what he meant by that post when i read it originally. i don't really agree fwiw cause the post seems more throwaway than attack-y. also i don't feel like wisdom was really in any kind of danger for the second half of your justification to really matter here? she was pretty town read yesterday and i doubt that post makes much of a dent to syn's mindset about how he can or can't adjust his read on wisdom on days 2/3/4

if we pretended syn didn't die (or flipped v) what would your read on wisdom be here for their own posting?

[Dolby]

who did dolby replace in for btw?

somehow i missed that lol

c0balt

[Dolby]

gotcha. makes sense but i honestly didn't even put two and two together what he meant by that post when i read it originally. i don't really agree fwiw cause the post seems more throwaway than attack-y. also i don't feel like wisdom was really in any kind of danger for the second half of your justification to really matter here? she was pretty town read yesterday and i doubt that post makes much of a dent to syn's mindset about how he can or can't adjust his read on wisdom on days 2/3/4

if we pretended syn didn't die (or flipped v) what would your read on wisdom be here for their own posting?

probably town but less so. I don't like their Syn read but their posts have jabbed well into my mind even though I disagree with their ultimate direction so far. I haven't read a good part of the thread between 600-1000

[theknightsofneeee]

c0balt

oh.

well i had cobalt as villagery already so welcome to villa core dolby

[grr]

I won't be around at all after these next few posts and vote. If you think I'm the best vote uh, good luck? Think that's hard to be the case on multiple fronts but I cannot stop you!

Still feel pretty ok with where I've been at. Think I've got a prettttty good swath of the game with reads. Doubt they are all accurate but I'm comfy with the reads and how I got there.

Keep circling back to Rask as my best wolf. Something about calling my reads too consensus while they are getting poo poo'd elsewhere for being too out there just makes me think it was shading and finding a reason to do so that sounds reasonable but hadn't actually been reading my posts or thinking about my reads. I don't think anyone else would call the reads consensus!

Still don't find Jan villagery. Don't see why others do and the only thing I get told when asked is "vibes" which, fair it's day 1, but I counter with "I get vibes that say opposite".

So like, ok. Let me try to articulate something here:

During this little back and forth I keep getting this ... feeling ... that you're not entirely giving the benefit of the doubt here and trying to see things from my POV and use that to help shape your reads too. I was hoping for a bit of a meld here where I give some thoughts, you not necessarily agree entirely with them but see little things in there that make you think of some other things, and springboard off of that to get some good observational reads back at me. Instead what I've got the feeling of is that you're just kind of responding to me. Like I'm saying "here is my perspective on this player and I'm trying to explain it so you can see it too and give me your input" but you're mostly just saying "meh, idk I mean I see it but I also don't". I want to break them down a bit further:

In this one, at no point did you actually say "hmm, that's interesting. Let me go back and read Dya and see if I see what you're saying". It's just semantics about the word obvious and a bit of a dismissal about the concept as a whole because everyone can seem solvey. Which, FAIR! Everyone can seem solvey but I refuse to let that make me go "wellll good woofs can seem solvey so im not gonna give villa points for people doing that". I'm just gonna call solvey people villagers and if a wolf wants to try to keep up with it all game and fool me then good luck its a long game. And if one fools me for a bit thats fine if its because of that!

It's the same with the Benneh/Neb one! I mean I don't think I'm a goat tier Benneh reader but I do have a lot of experience with Benneh and I think my view on that is worth at least exploring a bit too but it was once again a bit of a macro conceptual retort of "those kinds of forward-thinking wolf moves are extremely difficult to correctly sus out on D1 with no information. They're usually a little more obvious in retrospect with some flips." but you didn't go back and even consider looking at Bennehs posts through those lenses and see if it made anything stand out to you.

And like, even with the Manti one which I think was very helpful for me to start chewing on, it was again a Macro general manti thing and not anything specific about the posts themselves you know?

And like, don't get me wrong I don't think it was anything like "omg i need to reevaluate my whole world view with this new info" but it WAS a very direct attempt to meld with you that I think could have brought at least something new to the table (which would chain react into me finding something new and pew pew pew kinda having us go off) and I don't really feel you had much interest in doing so past just responding to direct posts with macro conceptual responses that sure, make sense, but wasn't reallllly what I was hoping for you know?

And I'm not trying to pout or anything but I find it concerning because this is the type of thing I was expecting to really click with both of us and I feel like it's at least slightly more likely that your respond like this as a wolf than a villager?

@Raskolnikov

I was voting Sunbae. Sunbae posted the first thing where he called you his "best wolf" then the second thing. I kinda thought the second thing was villagery/appealy enough that I wanted to support him (the irony is that he never actually voted you (I didnt notice that due to lack of Votecounts)). I respect Sunbae's reads a lot, I saw your ISO could *potentially be a wolf iso* (which is honestly all you get d1 from me, I mean people voted Syn without having read any of their posts so lol).

So that's like, all there is to it. Does that in any way help u with anything? I mean your read on me does not really matter to the game a lot (probably) but I dont mind answering if you have questions. I have sorted people as throwers before myself, but I don't recall selling that read it as a wolfread becuz I found it hard to believe that myself, so your take on me pinged me in that regard (it would have pinged me less if you just said to policy me and dont think im a wolf, in case you were wondering if I was looking for something different in comparison.)

[nebjiamn]

i agree on dolby knights

can you talk to me about your ladd and jan reads cause they're two ppl i probly ned to sort out a bit more. from a pure game state pov with my other reads so far it feels like they aren't paired but there could def be a wolf in them and if there is i feel like it'd be more likely to be ladd than jan. i liked ladd's posting for most of yesterday though so idk game feels hard fmpov

this wouldnt be the first time he fooled me tbf but i also kinda wana take pride in being the sole v!ladd reader when ppl read him wrong lol

[grr]

might be retracting my retraction from Rasko townread idk. I was looking for something different and maybe that was an overspecific expectation.

[theknightsofneeee]

i agree on dolby knights

can you talk to me about your ladd and jan reads cause they're two ppl i probly ned to sort out a bit more. from a pure game state pov with my other reads so far it feels like they aren't paired but there could def be a wolf in them and if there is i feel like it'd be more likely to be ladd than jan. i liked ladd's posting for most of yesterday though so idk game feels hard fmpov

this wouldnt be the first time he fooled me tbf but i also kinda wana take pride in being the sole v!ladd reader when ppl read him wrong lol

ya i'll make a case on both of them when i get home, its my bday so i'm going out to dinner with family

hopefully i'm not drunk when i get back lol, but if I am i'll do it tomorrow and tag you.

[grr]

(that being said I voted someone who I believed has wolf equity, and I still think that's like, less throwing than people who do not make use of their vote power at all, I understand Raskols perspective and why he has it tho, i think it's a fine attitude, I just wanted to vote a wolf is all)

[nebjiamn]

It's the same with the Benneh/Neb one! I mean I don't think I'm a goat tier Benneh reader but I do have a lot of experience with Benneh and I think my view on that is worth at least exploring a bit too but it was once again a bit of a macro conceptual retort of "those kinds of forward-thinking wolf moves are extremely difficult to correctly sus out on D1 with no information. They're usually a little more obvious in retrospect with some flips." but you didn't go back and even consider looking at Bennehs posts through those lenses and see if it made anything stand out to you.

im pocketed

fr tho this is what i was referencing re: collab -- this isn't stubbornness, this is eagerness to work w/ someone and i feel like him prodding newcomb about this read in particular is a good look cause newcomb did not have a particularly hard stance on me either way. iirc he had me as mostly null, but sunbae wanting to engage on that read from newc's nullish pov and feeling frustration from that strikes me as v villagery cause its not juxtaposed to make him look good/make newc look bad/generate a ton of publicity about his read on me.
@grr @didistetter fwiw

[grr]

is this game just me getting into a fight with someone every midday becuz i feel kinda weird.

[nebjiamn]

ya i'll make a case on both of them when i get home, its my bday so i'm going out to dinner with family

hopefully i'm not drunk when i get back lol, but if I am i'll do it tomorrow and tag you.

happy bday dude

[insomnia]

how do you feel that only three people followed Jan on it and all of them did it pretty noncomittally (bop, Monty, and Maple)?

I think that that makes one of Jan/Rask more likely to be wolfing

im not sure im following. the way you put it, i don't see why this needs to point in 1 wolf there and not as a bad sign for the people in the parentheses

[Raskolnikov]

Raskol has been underwhelming for me today.

who did dolby replace in for btw?

somehow i missed that lol

tbh I was heading into day thinking Raskol wasn't with Syn and I wanted to defend Raskol, but the deeper we get into day the less I'm feeling it

best sequence ever.

Hbday knight lol

Vote: theknightsofneeee ::

@grr: noted

[grr]

im pocketed

fr tho this is what i was referencing re: collab -- this isn't stubbornness, this is eagerness to work w/ someone and i feel like him prodding newcomb about this read in particular is a good look cause newcomb did not have a particularly hard stance on me either way. iirc he had me as mostly null, but sunbae wanting to engage on that read from newc's nullish pov and feeling frustration from that strikes me as v villagery cause its not juxtaposed to make him look good/make newc look bad/generate a ton of publicity about his read on me.
@grr @didistetter fwiw

alright fair enough (this is me saying i dont really get it as it might be too subtle for me but i respect the read and i will probs like, try to get it later. ig maybe i can translate it for my own brain to sunbae trying without agenda which is reasonable). I just don't really get who the wolves are tbh. like newcomb clearly had sunbae on his *mind* without directly advertising it but I do remember he called something villagery then too. lmao.

ok ig it might just be ladd becuz I do think the reasons insomnia FoSes him for are fine, but even if its ladd theres like more lol and if its not ladd then this even more ??? all over the place. maybe I cleared Wisdom too lightly and Dolby I have not given any consideration at all yet. ok actually now that i'm typing this i remember a lot of other names too rip. kinda internally townreading Gemma for, well, liking their tone but I never really articulated that becuz it's maybe less villagery than I think and maple Idk as I said I'd rather not solve personally (also because maple is playing much different to anything I have seen before).

[insomnia]

ih, i remember you pinging me about something but i forgot to reply

something about dya and a post you made on them at sod, if you want my opinion you're gonna have to quote that post

[grr]

Want more clarity on soonish:

---

dyachei. reason: specifically for this post. So this kinda reads like "ah im late for the cred" which, is the kinda stuff I and maybe others write a lot as a villa (and less so as wolf cuz im afraid it looks rly silly), however it feels really out of character for them? in my mental image of dya they are not a player who cares about being first or original or whatever because they are super meritocratic. feedback appreciated.

god damn it

I was thinking in the shower I didn't like my vote on ender and considering who to vote and dismissing both knights and gemma as counters because knights is always wolfy and so is gemma. So i was like, you know, i'm reconsidering my stance on syn, I'll go vote them because there's not much pressure there. Then i come online and see like 4 votes for syn

vote: syn

@insomnia It's linked here. like, the only post that pinged me in regards to "hmm I wouldn't expect town.dya to post this or can't recall an instance where they ever did" (which is kinda. well, counter-acting the village vibe i had from them all day for the opposite reason.)

[grr]

I dont just wanna ignore this becuz in the last game i had a similar ping on something cobalt said and i thought hm would v.cobalt ever say this and it was a correct hunch (that being said the stuff from cobalt was like, longer progression so it meant a lot more to me).

I just dont know if the expectations i have about dya are correct at all. (ladd alr. answered that it's not out of character for them)

[insomnia]

yeah, i think you could be right fwiw

dya's had a lot of micromoments that are uncharacteristic, probably more than i feel with their usual villa game. however, i think the vote is good enough especially if there's a chance syn is the wolf kp that im not really considering them today

they're in a spot where they're hitting villa checkboxes that aren't the hardest to tick so idk how to react though. i guess im just giving benefit of doubt for now, but dya is one of the weaker v's in my list for sure