Tarot Mafia

[Jan]

yeah idk this was gonna be im going to be nice to ladd game but it did feel like he was sussing Jan based on a "theory" (theory jan trying to kill of town.raskol for his wrong read on syn) not so much on, like an actual read on Jan. grmpf.

(i need to check if this actually happened or if ladd did say more about it too, just gth from memory. i shouldnt make posts like this but )

Ok here:



so to be clear I kinda thought the same thing might have happened but also it's an approach I'd ALSO take in villa.Jans shoes. I just feel like Jan overstated that Raskol was leveraging his godread when I dont think that... ever happened?








So I read that post by Rask and he is clearly adding a caveat and entertaining syn.wolfflips which I wouldn't read as "ok im treating it as a godread and just push Rask", why did you interpret it as such @Jan

If I did too I would do the same thing probably but have we read different posts or something?

I disagree because if we assume syn is polarized then even if we cannot 100% lock the read on d1 we should not kill the slot and instead give it a moment.
A little bit of paranoia does not a wolfread make and killing someone wrongly who is polarized is simply a cardinal sin.
I saw the push when I couldn't sleep and panicked.

[Jan]

Jan and ladd have decent odds of being a difference check and I would gth lean ladd being the wolf there because Jan's posts seem a lot harder to make? eh.

why do you think there is a wolf between us?
ben said something similar but he was clear that there was no evidence to it and just his brain doing ben things.

Do you think there is anything that makes ladd and myself unaligned?

[dyachei]

Grr you've only like...played turbos and mashes with me. You don't know how I post in normal games and that post wasn't out of character or wolfy at all

Also do you think syn asks about pocketing a partner

[didistetter]

Knights wagon peaked eod when i voted him in #1110

Vc at the time was

Theknightsofneeee (4) EnderWiggen, Raskolnikov, Gemma, Didistetter
Gemma (4) Ladd, Sheepsaysmeep, Wisdom, Insomnia
Syn (3) ColonelLubriderm, Newcomb, Dyachei
Raskolnikov (1) Grr
EnderWiggen (1) nebjiamn
ColonelLubriderm (1) Vanta Black
Sunbae (1) Jan
Sheepsaysmeep (1) Syn
Jan (1) Theknightsofneeee
Not Voting (5) C0balt, Montmorency, Sunbae, Arctic, Maple

those wagons were at 8:20 tho, so 40 min till eod. rask and sheep counterwagons were main ones with any traction after that point

from there, bop and jan move onto rask, and wagons stall until 8:50, when mont joins them on rask: wagon is now

Theknightsofneeee (4) EnderWiggen, Raskolnikov, Gemma, Didistetter
Gemma (4) Ladd, Sheepsaysmeep, Wisdom, Insomnia
Raskolnikov (4) Grr, ColonelLubriderm, Jan, Montmorency
Syn (2) Newcomb, Dyachei
EnderWiggen (1) nebjiamn
ColonelLubriderm (1) Vanta Black
Sheepsaysmeep (1) Syn
Jan (1) Theknightsofneeee
Not Voting (4) C0balt, Sunbae, Arctic, Maple

10 min till eod, knights, gemma, and rask are all tied wagons.

Gemma moves from knights to syn, dya then jumps off syn and instead votes with syn on sheep, ladd then joins on sheep.

7 min till eod: wagons are
Raskolnikov (4) Grr, ColonelLubriderm, Jan, Montmorency
Theknightsofneeee (3) EnderWiggen, Raskolnikov, Didistetter
Gemma (3) Sheepsaysmeep, Wisdom, Insomnia
Sheepsaysmeep (3) Syn, Dyachei, Ladd,
Syn (2) Newcomb, Gemma,
EnderWiggen (1) nebjiamn
ColonelLubriderm (1) Vanta Black
Jan (1) Theknightsofneeee
Not Voting (4) C0balt, Sunbae, Arctic, Maple

rask is now top wagon, gemma voted on syn before dya left syn, which would have put syn as counterwagon, but dya/lad combo ditched gemma and syn to vote sheep

insomnia then moves off voting gemma to vote with gemma on syn, 5 min till eod, puts syn at 3. mont unvotes rask, making wagons

Raskolnikov (3) Grr, ColonelLubriderm, Jan
Theknightsofneeee (3) EnderWiggen, Raskolnikov, Didistetter
Gemma (3) Sheepsaysmeep, Wisdom
Syn (3) Newcomb, Gemma, Insomnia
Sheepsaysmeep (3) Syn, Dyachei, Ladd,
EnderWiggen (1) nebjiamn
ColonelLubriderm (1) Vanta Black
Jan (1) Theknightsofneeee
Not Voting (4) C0balt, Sunbae, Arctic, Maple, Montmorency

so gemma, syn, knights, sheep, and rask are all tied wagons with 4 minutes till eod. knights and i both vote syn at the same time, pushing him to top wagon. maple votes rask, arctic hops on syn, and both jan and maple ditch their rask votes.


idk.


monts unvote creating a bunch of tied wagons feels really weird to me, and maples vote still feels like possible attempt to push it back onto rask.

i agree insomnia voting with gemma after voting gemma is odd at face value, but so then is dya voting with syn after voting syn. also best i saw insomn's vote was more to fight the wagon on rask.




TL;DR if rask is town mont and maple by far feel the worst imo

[grr]

I disagree because if we assume syn is polarized then even if we cannot 100% lock the read on d1 we should not kill the slot and instead give it a moment.
A little bit of paranoia does not a wolfread make and killing someone wrongly who is polarized is simply a cardinal sin.
I saw the push when I couldn't sleep and panicked.

(I am absolutely not aware of Syn's polarization btw, considering how many people townread him d1 its probably a myth tho hehehe).

Anyway I think my point was more like. Rasks take wasnt strong enough to directly hold him accountable (which u kind of do when you vote Rask over him).
I feel like I wouldnt completely BLAME rask for being wrong there or like, draw the connection between rask and syn so heavily. Personally I would take this stance only when someone utters a read that can be seen close to a greencheck on a another player, and that's not what I'm seeing in Rasks posts.

if you are town imo you kinda overinterpreted rasks posts ig. which might just have happened.

[didistetter]

btw lowkey, its extremely annoying you guys dont know how to spell enderwiggin and the e at the end is bugging my primate brain can you fix that

iove seen it like 5 times itg and maybe even fdid it myself at some point but it looks SO WRONG (and IS wrong!!!)

it doesnt actually matter but i sound out "ender wi GEN" like the word "again" instead of "enderwiggin" like the word "wiggin" and it is WEIRD

sorryyy i try to fix it but my notes app keeps autocorrecting enderwiggin to enderwiggen so i miss it sometimes copying stuff over ;-;

[grr]

Grr you've only like...played turbos and mashes with me. You don't know how I post in normal games and that post wasn't out of character or wolfy at all

Also do you think syn asks about pocketing a partner

I mean that is why I asked dya, was like one of the first posts in the morning, no one responded for a long time I dont blame myself for that :P

Second line I'm gonna reread up on what that was about (unfortunately my view/information of the game is kinda spotty...) (I will do so tho dw)

[Jan]

Kinda agree lol. I read 2 pages and I wanna kill the colonel and Vanta. Syn is town. Never rescind

Youa re not wrong grr.

Knowing rasks history reading syn and reading this post early I honestly overlooked part of the doubt that crept in later.

[insomnia]

yeah, my vote was more to save rask than caring who voted where

i think it's important to note that my vote on gemma explicitly showed a perspective of i'd vote gemma over knights because she isn't trying. not that she was egregiously wolfy or anything

[ladd]

I am cool with my vote where it is

Dunno where the me/jan stuff is coming from, i have no real interest in lunching jan today

Will be at the beach tomorrow but will be around before eod

[grr]

can I pocket you also

ok im gonna be real most of Syns comments feel like they are they kind of wolf who just reacts to things and, like doesnt want to be taken seriously or plays to be taken seriously so this unpairing magic is a little bit beyond me. Ig surface level is like, why would they ask to pocket a wolf, but then again why not? lol its just like, throwaway conversations.

[didistetter]

callm e a sucker but im not fully convinced jan is capable of the posting he's doing this game as wolf, including his rask stuff

if there's a wolf in him/ladd i'd lean ladd a lot more (thre isn't a dichotomy there but my brain just kinda broke this down that way from what ive been reading a bit)

i have giga specific reads in my brain on jan and dya which is why im TRing them for now.

i dont wanna undercut what jan could do as a wolf, but yeah idk.. i think his positioning is rough but his posting is good, and since i caught him off posting last two times we were v/w im fine with him atm

[ladd]

Hopefully the info

Please remember me Gemma

What a weird last minute post lmao

[grr]

I am cool with my vote where it is

Dunno where the me/jan stuff is coming from, i have no real interest in lunching jan today

Will be at the beach tomorrow but will be around before eod

i mean it came from this

Quote it cause this seems like bs friendo

I told newcomb id dayvig syn mid d1 if given a shot and never villa read syn once


My first thought is jan ngl, the eod felt like he was trying to use a villager with a wrong read (rask) to defend a wolf


Bbl, i just randomly woke up lol

also yeah ngl i suffer a real information problem here I am not fully aware of everything everyone has posted at all and its a constant catchup lmaooooo. i see you're voting maple now so I gotta read how you got there (at this pace i am probably post capping just by documenting me reading the thread gg)

[nebjiamn]

i have giga specific reads in my brain on jan and dya which is why im TRing them for now.

i dont wanna undercut what jan could do as a wolf, but yeah idk.. i think his positioning is rough but his posting is good, and since i caught him off posting last two times we were v/w im fine with him atm

ya i should probly say i find it unlikely more than he's not capable, everyone in this game would be capable tbh (except u)

[dyachei]

ok im gonna be real most of Syns comments feel like they are they kind of wolf who just reacts to things and, like doesnt want to be taken seriously or plays to be taken seriously so this unpairing magic is a little bit beyond me. Ig surface level is like, why would they ask to pocket a wolf, but then again why not? lol its just like, throwaway conversations.

Wolves don't tend to just hip ire this to other wolves. Can it happen? Sure. Does it happen in practice? Not really

[didistetter]

Vote: Maple

Wagons:
Maple (3) Ladd, Dolby, Didistetter
Nebjiamn (2) Insomnia, Gemma
Jan (1) Theknightsofneeee
Dolby (1) ColonelLubriderm
Enderwiggin (1) Nebjiamn
Raskolnikov (1) Enderwiggin
Gemma (1) Wisdom
Theknightsofneeee (1) Raskolnikov
Not voting (8) Arctic, Maple, Jan, dyachei, Vanta Black, Sunbae, Montmorency, Grr

[dyachei]

Stett you're putting too much stock into me voting with syn. I didn't know who I was voting with at that point in time until I saw the wagons at eod

[ladd]

i mean it came from this



also yeah ngl i suffer a real information problem here I am not fully aware of everything everyone has posted at all and its a constant catchup lmaooooo. i see you're voting maple now so I gotta read how you got there (at this pace i am probably post capping just by documenting me reading the thread gg)

Look no offense, this isnt directly at you in particular at all but this is exactly why i tend to vote only once per day

Jan had a bad eod, i am allowed to grill him over it without being put in dichotomies

He was 1 of my top villa reads d1, i agree he is posting villagery and i said as much

[didistetter]

Stett you're putting too much stock into me voting with syn. I didn't know who I was voting with at that point in time until I saw the wagons at eod

i think i've been clear i tr you ~for reasons~. :P

no need to worry what i think.

im not putting stock in it, i was mentioning it since dolby mentioned insomn voting with gemma
@grr please save a post to vote eod if u plan on capping soon


@ColonelLubriderm are you actually genuinely claiming lovers with maple, not as a meme, and do you think he's been actually genuinely towny in lover chat>

[Arctic]

hi

sorry i haven't been here irl's been beating me to a pulp

i'm too tired rn to do much and i've read barely anything from today outside of skimming random pages, but i hate approaching the thread when i'm unable to process everything while i'm there

that said all i really have time for right now is to post what i wrote overnight, i won't be much help on current affairs because i haven't read much from today

[Arctic]

this was my overnight stuff:

syn dying day 1 as a wolf again is pretty unfortunate lol

so on the whole rask situation (which i expect to be the biggest point of contention today) i'm kind of coming to two worlds, one where rask is in fact a wolf who tried to make a cheeky w/w townread on syn, and the other where rask is town and wolves are in the people who tried to kill him first over syn because "he wouldn't be misreading syn so it makes sense to kill him first" because that's like.. exactly what wolves would want in a town!rask world - because then it makes syn look better the next day since rask dies with that god-townread on syn. so i guess specifically this is more of a jan callout. with other shade on maple/montmorency. the entire thing just felt kinda shady to me.

i was of the opinion that i didn't wanna kill syn if rask was townreading them but.. killing rask was way worse on a "who has been villagery" front, so it was hard for me to dictate my vote based on the order of associations rask!v meaning syn!v (something we now know is incorrect) when there's a chance he was just wrong

i should probably hold my tongue before we even know what alignment rask is but my last game here told me jan has a thing for making pretty plainly wrong/pro-wolf decisions at eod (thinking eod2) as town "for the sake of spice" so like, even though i want to consider the rask push damning if he's town i don't know if i can really do that

on maple - i opened is iso expecting his vote on rask to seem like an openwolf but.. it tracks well enough with what he was saying. he wanted to save knights and didn't have a read on syn and was shrugging on rask. i imagine he voted rask initially because he was townreading everyone on the rask wagon and only newcomb from the syn wagon (when it was 3-3) so it's whatever. the switch to syn after the outcome was already decided is probably the worse looking thing, if anything.

i am not sure how to parse montmorency's vote because i don't really understand what he was saying

on the topic of rask himself, dunno maybe we just kill him even though i could see him going either way atp cuz i think syn's posts about him look w/w. don't care so much that he got the read wrong though the reasoning seems pretty bad. syn calling out rask's townread on him being "suspicious [and] early" feels like it's inadvertently TMI'ing both of them wolves. syn including rask in his wolfreads after this doesn't really feel how i'd expect a wolf to treat a villager they know is misreading them - there isn't really any caution or attempt to keep up the pocket, but it makes sense as a wolf who is biased to thinking their partner is wolfy for incorrectly townreading them

other than this syn's posts weren't very useful imo. i also wouldn't be surprised if i was wrong on anything above no one is very clear from pushing him except newcomb imo

in terms of posts about syn - i think my main takeaway is that gemma is actually probably a villager unless the wagons were mostly wolves i guess. she townread syn immediately for inane posting and kept him as her like.. 3rd top townread which. i dunno. feels a little insane for me to be townreading syn that much as w/w given his level of posting, then to go back on it at eod (which is where the "unless if all the wagons were wolves" caveat comes in)

tl;dr none of the rask pushers were actually that wolfy (other than jan ig) so i could see rask being a wolf too or in general multiple wolves were being wagoned at that eod and wolves just did damage control by converging on syn who probably has the weakest posting or wasn't a strong role. but if i'm wrong on this and rask is town then like, i have to imagine wolves were pushing rask otherwise wtf were they doing. so i wouldn't mind killing jan. i think they are probably a difference check

aside from that i kinda wanna look at cobalt today (syn putting him as "fine" in his list strikes me as the most likely to be a townread on a partner given his posting), sunbae (just kinda strange approach, solving doesn't really strike me as sincere e.g. dya read, discussion on people not talked about as much), benneh (posted a bunch, none of it was towny. that's how his wolfgame feels to me). still don't know what to do about sheep but i could be convinced on him too

[Arctic]

and one of the main things that i remember from skimming is arguing that jan's eod doesn't happen that day as a wolf if he's pushing v!rask with the logic that it guarantees jan's death when syn flips but i don't really agree with that sentiment because 1. syn is dead and it does not seem like jan is being treated as outted and 2. the point is pushing a town rask townreading syn incorrectly is likely to delay syn dying inadvertently because people were forming either w/w or rask!w syn!v or v/v connections but never one where syn was wolf and rask was town. so there's a decent chance the wolf angle there is to push a town rask over and use his incorrect read on syn that he died with to disprove the worlds that everyone was working with, especially if syn was able to post better the next day because his posting was already at a level above his wolfgame even though from what i heard it wasn't quite above the level of his towngame

[Arctic]

something else i remember - ender to argue that "we normally vibe together [arctic] as v/v" feels pretty ridiculous given i can't remember playing any non-hydra non-team games with you excepting last game in which you thought i was a wolf roughly the entire game despite killing half the wolfteam and being townread by everyone, up until the point of literally being mech cleared for not hammering in f4

so for you to spin your read as "well we normally vibe and aren't here" shows a pretty disturbing lack of touch with reality at best or is just made up at worst, and if it's the former then i implore you to take a less reductive approach because i have a lot of actual content to work with extending past "vibes"

[Dolby]

Hey Arctic fyi I have a v check on Cobalt

[Arctic]

on the topic of ladd, yeah i'm worried that i'm just liking his posts and falling for that rather than actually considering the overall body of work and his direction

cuz i dunno i mean he wasn't interested in the syn wagon despite voicing concerns there (the same concerns which ironically made me go and check syn's posts and thus become willing to vote him, albeit mainly to save rask) and if knights is a villager then his main focus yesterday was two villagers. i don't know if knights is a villager, but tbc i think gemma is a villager now and wolf!knights had every excuse to stay on her wagon over syn. so like. yeah i dunno it just doesn't seem too great

it feels hypocritical somewhat because my focus hasn't been that different
but then again ladd is ladd and i'm me
i don't particularly want to kill him today still but i haven't read his posts today so maybe it'll be clearer when i do (which will be tomorrow morning/afternoon, im far too exhausted rn)

[insomnia]

@Jan

You said you read syn good but you didn't know what to say about him, so presumably he was having an off game meta wise

I wanna understand why you then nail rask so hard to the wall on "he is def tming him if syn is v", like why can he not just be a villager with a wrong read? Idk this godread treatment on someone feels off to me esp cuz it's about a slot that you said was easy to find out what they are later, so how would flipping rask help you at all in reading him if he'd become obvious to you anyway?

[Arctic]

i don't think the game makes a whole lot of sense if rask and jan are both town and the only world in which it does is the one where wolves have had no influence and literally did nothing at eod. which i suppose is possible, but i dunno. is it likely?

it didn't really seem like anyone took the bait on jan voting rask which is what i'd expect to happen if that interaction was v/v knowing the other wagon (syn) was a wolf. sure you have maple and mont but like. really? i went over it in my bigger post but maple's eod just feels ~rand given his earlier thoughts and voting on the better wagon comp according to his reads makes it feel less openwolfy after the fact. and monte i have no idea either

i somehow forgot that bop was voting there too so i'll have to revisit that, but his posting just felt too good. dunno.

[Visor]

Updates added to opening post

[Arctic]

@Jan @Raskolnikov

Feel free to ignore this if you’ve already answered and I just haven’t seen it cuz I’ve not read today

but i want to know what you think wolves were doing at that eod (shade on particular players appreciated)

because for me the level 1 interpretation as a villager in either of your shoes is to think the other is a wolf otherwise things are quite odd (like wolves either being non-present completely or just bussing syn when they had town wagon(s) available)