Tarot Mafia

[ladd]

If maple is v, they get off an useful action tonight

If wisdom is v, they have no action

If you think they ar eboth wolves, vote wisdom imo

[Montmorency]

@theknightsofneeee

You found Sunbae "LACKING" throughout D1. Do you find his thread presence today reassuring or not?

also from what i have seen people are COMPLETELY dropping everyones legacies immediately so you'll also be forgotten the minute ur dead. xD I cant recall anyone ever referring to a legacy (it probably happened once or twice I struggle to be aware of everything).

(which is also kinda a subtle hint to me that dead villa legacies are probs decent).

I'm not sure I've ever seen a game in which people truly cared about legacies. Even, like, detailed analyses on the threshold of the flip by PR that lay out who is clear and who is sus more or less correctly.

While I am at it.

Wisdoms progression on Sunbae:

Hm. I don't understand the progression from pure and TL, to bottom null in a few hours D2, and to voting Sunbae today.

(btw now that i come across this just saying my handling of rask was actually villagery af its clear i was confused about getting my top townread in a CC from someone who shouldnt be a wolf by how the claim went down and then decided to be convinced he is a wolf him after he made the wolfiest post in the entire thread, which shows i have no TMI and read also him exactly like what he was: a serial killer (probably). also makes no sense for me as wolf to push him there cuz if i was a wolf rask is a villa who announced to kill a (likely? dunno) villa tonight).

Sorry, word salad. Rephrase.

ok so someone explain to me why maple is a wolf and not just a villager fucking around like he does?

And no mont, your argument of he did this in a previous wolf game is lame because he's also done this in a previous village game

I said that about ladd.

in tarot, the meaning of a card and its relation to other cards in a reading changes depending on the way the card is facing when it is dealt

look at the card in your role pm, it's facing upwards, the normal way

it can be turned sideways or upside down and that changes how its interpreted

"inverting" is just this game's language to describe that change

everyone has their role, then they have another hidden role. when they get inverted, their role changes to the hidden (and more fun) role

Now we're getting somewhere. I looked up the (new) Mafia modifier "inverted" at first, and have been confused ever since.

bop claimed vt fwiw

id imagine inverter is still out there

Could have been stetter or arctic.

Looking back I just realized that Maple and Wisdom just kinda had the same POE? Wisdom had Gemma/Me/Monty/Vanta in a post earlier today before they decided after prompting that Maple was bad and voted them, and Maple had that same poe + Benneh (and presumably ladd). I kind of think that having that POE is wolf indicative anyway but I also think that, looking at this from Wisdom specific POV if Wisdom and Maple are w/w, why have any of your other teammates below Maple?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Dolby
Dya - though I think that there is a VERY slim world where mafia somehow found out that Rask is SK and they CCed to kill him and fakeclear

Knights
grr
Insomnia

Monty - yes he is up here and yes I think he still could be 3p
Jan - realisitcally I think with his current claimed role he is forced to use it in a pro town way even if wolf. Could be wolf roleblocker I guess (funny).
Benneh
Vanta
Gemma
Sunbae
Ender

Wisdom
Ladd
Maple

I think that within the big middle group Monty and Jan are probably town and as long as I resolve doubt on the people between Benneh and Ender we're fine?

I straight up think that Maple/Wisdom/Ladd are 3/3 and I'd expect more from Maple today on the sole basis that Maple is the presumptive yeet.

Let's say we have more or less the same POE. But - can you convince Jan to dice ladd if we do oust Maple today, or vice versa? It's important. (Scrap the scenario where he extorts and executes Maple; PGO risk too high.) @Jan @Dolby

Why spend time reading Jan though? It's a truly self-resolving slot.

[Maple]

If maple is v, they get off an useful action tonight

If wisdom is v, they have no action

If you think they ar eboth wolves, vote wisdom imo

Mine is a day action tbf, I get an action off either way.

[ladd]

Also jan prolly should claim ITT who he is jailing to avoid cross fire with eventual other village kp and i see no downside to it

[Montmorency]

I will vote Wisdom if ladd dies tonight. (I will also vote Maple if ladd dies tonight.)

[Dolby]

if maple is a villager it means he get one more action, I get a card and even if he dies to my hand there are cards that might have high value to use for me on the same night.
maybe I get a pgo and kill a wolf visiting me?
maybe I get to doc a player or a vigshot?
Maybe it is nothing.

There are a lot of good outcomes in a v!maple world.

I don't really doubt that Maple's role is real

But I doubt that she has it and is town.

I don't like how he tried to sell himself as confirmable

I don't like his thread play

I don't like how he's playing today NOT like a towny who knows they are about to die. Yes the VC is 4-4 right now, but Maple has been kind of the presumptive yeet since SOD

I don't like how the card went to Arctic. To be frank I think that it's pretty likely Maple gave a card to a teammate.

If Maple gives you a card I still want to kill them. In addition, I think there's odds you could be killed and roleblocked tonight in that world, and we will keep on being given reasons to give Maple another day.

14 posts left

[Jan]

Also jan prolly should claim ITT who he is jailing to avoid cross fire with eventual other village kp and i see no downside to it

wolves know if I pick one of them anyway because they are banned from wolfchat if I do (for the night).

And I doubt I would pick a villager that wolves want to kill tbh.

[Dolby]

Let's say we have more or less the same POE. But - can you convince Jan to dice ladd if we do oust Maple today, or vice versa? It's important. (Scrap the scenario where he extorts and executes Maple; PGO risk too high.) @Jan @Dolby

Why spend time reading Jan though? It's a truly self-resolving slot.

I hope I can convince Jan. Not to sure, I think that he will arrive wherever he arrives on his own. I was kinda worried for a second that Jan could have started as a alalouge to a mafia roleblocker, but reading through him made me feel WAY better about him. That's why I read through him

13 posts left

[grr]

I think Wisdom voted Sunbae as a joke. Not sure if I need to rephrase as I was just talking to Wisdom because she said I was not villagery in thread when something spicy with Rask happened. Unless you desperately want to understand it then I could. (i didnt need to add it there i was just rambling).

Currently have nothing to add to the discussion. Suppose I could tell Jan who to shoot if he's (a real hehe) villa Killpower, but i'd rather he just snipes a wolf. Idk how confident he feels on his own reads.

[ladd]

I am honestly pretty convinced wisdom is a wolf

Not sure maple is but maybe i am being a dummie there

I think assuming above is right then there is 2 in benneh/sunbae/knights and then unsure on the last atm but with wolf flips it should be findable

[Montmorency]

I never should have been getting pushed in the first place. The fact that people didn't fuck off when I initially claimed PR is what led us to this situation.

If Arctic lived the night he confirms I did something very village aligned at night with an action and people get off my back long enough to let me be useful.

Did I overplay the confirmable nature of my role? Yes. But only because people decided to fuck around for some inexplicable reason. You'll notice I never even implied my alignment was hard confirmable until it looked like I was dying, up until that point I just claimed I had a role that gave verifiable feedback.

Give me a power-up and I will spare you. I'm actually the best gift recipient if you think about it. Gib

if maple is a villager it means he get one more action, I get a card and even if he dies to my hand there are cards that might have high value to use for me on the same night.
maybe I get a pgo and kill a wolf visiting me?
maybe I get to doc a player or a vigshot?
Maybe it is nothing.

There are a lot of good outcomes in a v!maple world.

Do we actually know the gift actions are exclusive?

Please do kill bottom of masons POE though.

[ladd]

For the love of god dont give monty any cards

[Montmorency]

For the love of god dont give monty any cards

Tell Maple in chat to gift me and I will drop my sus. I won't even finish

[Sunbae]

<--- woke up feeling quite sick, apologies. will try to power through but i make no promises

[Jan]

<--- woke up feeling quite sick, apologies. will try to power through but i make no promises

take care of yourself first.

game is slow enough that you can mostly skip a day or 3 and be fine.

and today likely should not depend on your single vote.

[Sunbae]

take care of yourself first.

game is slow enough that you can mostly skip a day or 3 and be fine.

and today likely should not depend on your single vote.

I have a few things I want to say first and like, if they come off pointed I promise it's just sick cranky and not actually mad at anyone.

But:

1. I'm kind of flustered at reading Ladd just lumping me in with Benneh and Knights because "i guess he could be doing this as a wolf" or w/e. It's not just Ladd who has been doing this (and I'm also kind of flustered with everyone else doing it, and with Gemma acting like I'm out in left field ... my reads aren't that wild anymore for the most part!) but after I tried hard to see the game through a vLadd perspective while everyone was zoning in on him and extended an olive branch, seeing that just left me :| because it's like he didn't even try to make a real read on me. I know I've been talking about shitposting and I've been silly from time to time, but the reality is I'm basically the top poster who has given reads on nearly the entire game on every single game day. I've explained those reads when I could, tried to when I couldn't, pressed people about them, defended them when I was confident on them, adjusted when others made good points against them, and got a consensus for blind spots from others to shore things up.

I'm not saying that to say "obvious villager" I'm saying that to say that it is easy to have some sort of read on me for it! Just like read my posts and call me a villager or a wolf. Just call me something. I genuinely want people to just read through my reads and take a stand one way or another. If you call me a wolf and give reasons I can at least refute those with explanations (as long as its not vague buzzwords like "performative" or things like that) which can get you in my head and maybe make it click. But just shrugging, putting me aside, and locking me in for the d4/5 shrug yeet is like, i cant really do anything about that!

Again: top poster with reads on the entire game at various points outside of maybe Vanta (who I have asked about at least a few times) and dolby (who I would call pretty solidly solvey today and I'm worried about right now).

Just like, try? meet me half way? You can see Ive been trying!!


2. Gemma called me "sitting back playing for d6" and how thats concerning but I find it absolutely impossible to read my posts today and think that? Like I am actively explaining to Insom that I do not want to sleepwalk through two claims being killed because if it's wrong it's going to be too late and am actively exploring various other worlds because I think it's important. And Gemma read this post because they also call me out for being "in narnia" and "so out in left field" because I explore Insom/Gemma/Benneh in that exact same post. So like, what is going on with that? I mean I get everyone else seems to have Gemma villa and that's why I'm not locking in on that but can someone just recognize that with me and tell me I'm not crazy for thinking that's weird? I feel similar to how I felt about rasks posting towards me day 1 where I just see it and say "theres no way this person is actually reading my posts" you know? Which, fine, maybe they ARENT and are a villager anyways, but yeah.

[Sunbae]

Of course none of this matters if general consensus of maple/wisdom being wolves is right cause we're steamrolling in that case but I'm looking around and being c o n c e r n e d that if they aren't i have been lined up to get railroaded and i am trying to ring alarm bells for it you know?

[dyachei]

ok dolby but what if i told you manti/maple does that kind of "im confirmable" shit as a villager, too. Im so confused why everyone is so sure he's a wolf while I'm sitting here scratching my head. I think wisdom or ladd are better choices

[Sunbae]

Ender,

Saw your post: I think in game vibing would be pretty nice if we can line that up but idk our schedules seem so opposite

[Dolby]

ok dolby but what if i told you manti/maple does that kind of "im confirmable" shit as a villager, too. Im so confused why everyone is so sure he's a wolf while I'm sitting here scratching my head. I think wisdom or ladd are better choices

it impacts my read a bit but Manti has not been playing today like a dying villager has been. He's been spinning wheels and trying to get One More Day from Jan. He hasn't been solving, he's been saying "these people are villagers and these people are my POE" without really anything else to really say. He isn't solving, I don't see evidence that he's evaluating. He's just existing.

I think all three are wolves. I hope that Manti goes today and Wisdom is executed rn. I currently think all three are wolves.

[Sunbae]

I have read Ladd's concern about Knights and while I don't agree with it right now, I have noted that Knight's villageryist posting to me was while under direct threat of dying eod1 and has fallen off since. I explained day 2 away with birthday stuff but Ill keep it in the back of my mind for the future.

[Sunbae]

Also Jan,

it's been nice to get into the mid stages of a game with you and try and solve. we havent gotten that in a while

[ladd]

I have a few things I want to say first and like, if they come off pointed I promise it's just sick cranky and not actually mad at anyone.

But:

1. I'm kind of flustered at reading Ladd just lumping me in with Benneh and Knights because "i guess he could be doing this as a wolf" or w/e. It's not just Ladd who has been doing this (and I'm also kind of flustered with everyone else doing it, and with Gemma acting like I'm out in left field ... my reads aren't that wild anymore for the most part!) but after I tried hard to see the game through a vLadd perspective while everyone was zoning in on him and extended an olive branch, seeing that just left me :| because it's like he didn't even try to make a real read on me. I know I've been talking about shitposting and I've been silly from time to time, but the reality is I'm basically the top poster who has given reads on nearly the entire game on every single game day. I've explained those reads when I could, tried to when I couldn't, pressed people about them, defended them when I was confident on them, adjusted when others made good points against them, and got a consensus for blind spots from others to shore things up.

I'm not saying that to say "obvious villager" I'm saying that to say that it is easy to have some sort of read on me for it! Just like read my posts and call me a villager or a wolf. Just call me something. I genuinely want people to just read through my reads and take a stand one way or another. If you call me a wolf and give reasons I can at least refute those with explanations (as long as its not vague buzzwords like "performative" or things like that) which can get you in my head and maybe make it click. But just shrugging, putting me aside, and locking me in for the d4/5 shrug yeet is like, i cant really do anything about that!

Again: top poster with reads on the entire game at various points outside of maybe Vanta (who I have asked about at least a few times) and dolby (who I would call pretty solidly solvey today and I'm worried about right now).

Just like, try? meet me half way? You can see Ive been trying!!

fair enuf, I have def not put a ton of effort into reading you or benneh

I said you are gth in my reads list but right now i am mostly at wisdom/knights/x/x and i think you or benneh would fit well for 1 of the x slots; unsure about the other

thats really all there is to it

it impacts my read a bit but Manti has not been playing today like a dying villager has been. He's been spinning wheels and trying to get One More Day from Jan. He hasn't been solving, he's been saying "these people are villagers and these people are my POE" without really anything else to really say. He isn't solving, I don't see evidence that he's evaluating. He's just existing.

I think all three are wolves. I hope that Manti goes today and Wisdom is executed rn. I currently think all three are wolves.

why am i a wolf without pre associatives with maple w?

[ladd]

I have read Ladd's concern about Knights and while I don't agree with it right now, I have noted that Knight's villageryist posting to me was while under direct threat of dying eod1 and has fallen off since. I explained day 2 away with birthday stuff but Ill keep it in the back of my mind for the future.

i just dont see where else the wolves can be

if someone can make a case for someone else i am willing to hear it (yes i know you have said concerns about gemma and insomnia but I re checked gemma and it only strenghtned my v read on them, insomnia i havent really cared to recheck cause i think he is out of his wolf range. if not congrats to him)

[Sunbae]

fair enuf, I have def not put a ton of effort into reading you or benneh

I said you are gth in my reads list but right now i am mostly at wisdom/knights/x/x and i think you or benneh would fit well for 1 of the x slots; unsure about the other

thats really all there is to it




why am i a wolf without pre associatives with maple w?

yeah please note the whole "not actually mad, just feeling a bit yuck so might come off that way". just trying to word vomit feelings and ive always been bad at concisely articulating them

[Dolby]

I like your village lists ladd but I don't feel that you're really pushing anyone with conviction. What I was saying your push on Maple D2 is an example of it and it kinda extends to pretty much every push you've had after day two excepting Wisdom where I do at least feel that you're trying to move votes there. But also feel that you're kinda there from threadstate (ex. if you had actually done something with your Wisdom pings yesterday I would have found that towny but I am pretty worried that you are going after Wisdom now for threadstate reasons). You have had Benneh/Sunbae as stronger susses and I just don't feel that you believe in them. I also just don't feel any villagery energy from you

11 posts left, saving 5 for last two hours

[Sunbae]

Im gonna pull villa legacies and see if that tells us much, one sec

[Vanta Black]

@Vanta Black what are your reads at right now?

I read Vanta Black's ISO, thought it was lightly towny, until I saw the Dya vote. i think it's kinda not what mafia would do to ask the thread which one should I vote when half the thread is there and then vote Dya over Rask

I do not disagree that that was a bad vote! It seemed okay at the time. I really didn't want Rask to be a woof (like my vote could change anything).

Right now I would like to vote within Maple/Wisdom. Sometimes things that seem towny at the time, like Maple's early "6 words" post, don't age well. And Wisdom put a vote on me early D2 for what looks like nothing more than me being LHF.

I did reread insomnia and realized why I read over it before. A lot of the kind of analysis I have to reread to get, a lot of meta stuff. I think insomnia is probably town.

I didn't get a strong town lean from reading Sunbae. Looks solvy, also looks like a player who can fake solvy.

This is a quick thing because I'm on my way out teh door right now, will be back before EOD. Town lean on Dolby, grr, dya. Still TLing Jan but with a bit more reservation.

I finally have to ask, who or what is IH? People keep throwing that in there. I try to make sense of abbreviations/acronyms in context so I shoudl probaby have figured it out, but I haven't. Also someone mentioned Matt. I don't know who Matt is but would vote there just because.

[Sunbae]

actually can someone else pull newcomb/colonel/arctic/stett legacies for me
suddenly feeling worse

[ladd]

I like your village lists ladd but I don't feel that you're really pushing anyone with conviction. What I was saying your push on Maple D2 is an example of it and it kinda extends to pretty much every push you've had after day two excepting Wisdom where I do at least feel that you're trying to move votes there. But also feel that you're kinda there from threadstate (ex. if you had actually done something with your Wisdom pings yesterday I would have found that towny but I am pretty worried that you are going after Wisdom now for threadstate reasons). You have had Benneh/Sunbae as stronger susses and I just don't feel that you believe in them. I also just don't feel any villagery energy from you

11 posts left, saving 5 for last two hours

ok, so who has made a strong push on d2+ of the alive people?



I am genuinely curious if you think sunbae/benneh have made a strong push on d2+ IYO