Gemma's Favorite Music Mafia

[pzelda]

I'm a Pisces if that helps

I already thought Visor's SoD was towny so now I'm definitely not voting him
progress!

Taffy (15)

Why was it towny? I found it nai.

[pzelda]

Why was it towny? I found it nai.

By sod I mean first few hours.

[Totally not Taffy]

Why was it towny? I found it nai.

Bc while I was reading SoD he voted Annika at the exact point where I had the thought "huh that read on Happy is premature" and then he voted Stett at the time when I thought she'd explained well and looked townier

I just didn't know why he went for Stett there, so I asked
now that I've read the reason, it's quite compelling

Basically he's thinking about the game as it's happening and that's towny
Can he mimic it as a wolf? Probably but he hasn't bothered doing so in the last several games I've seen him wolf in.

And that's good enough for today, 13 others to choose from and all that!

Taffy (16)

[pzelda]

Bc while I was reading SoD he voted Annika at the exact point where I had the thought "huh that read on Happy is premature" and then he voted Stett at the time when I thought she'd explained well and looked townier

I just didn't know why he went for Stett there, so I asked
now that I've read the reason, it's quite compelling

Basically he's thinking about the game as it's happening and that's towny
Can he mimic it as a wolf? Probably but he hasn't bothered doing so in the last several games I've seen him wolf in.

And that's good enough for today, 13 others to choose from and all that!

Taffy (16)

The point about him thinking about the game is a good one. I just think it has started a little bit later?

[Totally not Taffy]

The point about him thinking about the game is a good one. I just think it has started a little bit later?

It might have gotten more obvious later but that's not what my first impression was based on

Did you miss my question about where to find the explanation for your Sunbae read?

Taffy (18)

[pzelda]

It might have gotten more obvious later but that's not what my first impression was based on

Did you miss my question about where to find the explanation for your Sunbae read?

Taffy (18)

You can find it across posts over the past two or three pages. To sum it up.
My initial impression was town. When rereading I found them to be actually wolfier. No handing out to many townreads at first for example. Later posts made me less certain again. Then I saw Benneh's vote. That made me put them back in scum. AMD the last stretch of posts just screams wolf. They do random votes and instead of explaining them Sunbae got defensive and emotional. Plus two lists with no added value. That just doesn't feel like towny behaviour.

[Totally not Taffy]

You can find it across posts over the past two or three pages. To sum it up.
My initial impression was town. When rereading I found them to be actually wolfier. No handing out to many townreads at first for example. Later posts made me less certain again. Then I saw Benneh's vote. That made me put them back in scum. AMD the last stretch of posts just screams wolf. They do random votes and instead of explaining them Sunbae got defensive and emotional. Plus two lists with no added value. That just doesn't feel like towny behaviour.

Thanks!

I also just got to your first readslist and we clearly had some very different reads there

So, catching up.
p1: waza v, annika v, benneh (if nebijamm is benneh) might be v, but their activity seems little artificial, little bit like busy work I don't know who Stett is, v reads are basically for throwing v reads in early, visor and lissa not so towny so far
p2: lissa still not very towny imho, they're getting weird free town reads, I like sunbae's entrance - straight to business, probably v
p3 (and p4): friends chatting - I can't take a whole lot from that atm, taffy looks slightly w for their entrance and their lines of questioning stuff, there's some negativity, weird reasons for voting benneh and they were rooting out some of the early v leans of other players. All wolfy tbh, could be w/w with Maple for that bomb inventor comment.
p5: I skipped some long comments from waza, I should return to them and read them properly to see if they hold any water. Stett (didistetter, I understand now) can be villa lean for wanting to eat? The rest of that post is fairly weak and quite defensive tho. Pointing out fair enough probably nai but I also feel like taking that v lean back.
p6: Visor's not towny here, I kind of want to see townreads from him. Most of his stuff is negative. The single townread is ok and I think it makes annika quite likely town for a half-stupid reason. If Visor is wolf he probably is trying to pocket them. If he's town, his reads tended to be good.
p7: Also Annika not townreading Visor for that is a good look.

Villas - Annika, waza, sunbae
Villa leans - Benneh
Nulls - Ender, ladd
Negative vibes - Stett, Visor, Lissa, Maple
Wolf leans - taffy

vote: Totally not Taffy

Ok, I know I haven't provided any explanation for some of these, I might do it later or just answer any questions.

Why'd you keep Happy (that's Waza) in your top town after p5?

Taffy (19)

[pzelda]

Thanks!

I also just got to your first readslist and we clearly had some very different reads there



Why'd you keep Happy (that's Waza) in your top town after p5?

Taffy (19)

Ok, it was early and overall activity was enough for me. They were moving the game forward. I think I'm more confident on v now. I think they're trying to be a town leader, to be easily recognizable by others as towns via their own solving and transparency. I think they forced some of their posts for that reason and it's why they're so confident with their reads. It just looks like that style of towing which is more about finding other towns and letting them find you than about having the best reads.

[pzelda]

Tbh the day is solved for me. But that doesn't mean I should stop solving.
Ladd/Annika/Taffy/Arctic are people I want to look into next.
I'm leaving out Maple. He's active, so he might help to solve himself. If not, I might end up leaning towards w.

[Arctic]

You can find it across posts over the past two or three pages. To sum it up.
My initial impression was town. When rereading I found them to be actually wolfier. No handing out to many townreads at first for example. Later posts made me less certain again. Then I saw Benneh's vote. That made me put them back in scum. AMD the last stretch of posts just screams wolf. They do random votes and instead of explaining them Sunbae got defensive and emotional. Plus two lists with no added value. That just doesn't feel like towny behaviour.

I feel like you view what sorts of things are towny and wolfy as though it's black and white. Why do you think his behaviour makes sense as wolf, even if it wasn't towny? I actually thought dropping those posts and peacing it out might trend towny because they feel some obligation to give a solve but not enough obligation to try and survive, which is something that a wolf might have here given that each member of the wolf team is more important to keep alive. I often wolfread Sunbae incorrectly a lot, so it gave me cold feet, especially because I think his callout on me makes sense. I don't really know what I was talking about with his Visor read, I guess I was just projecting that I wish he spoke about it more because I feel like my read there has been shut down so I inadvertently confbiased visor being in his poe but no other mentions of visor as wolfy. I don't really believe that anymore

[pzelda]

I feel like you view what sorts of things are towny and wolfy as though it's black and white. Why do you think his behaviour makes sense as wolf, even if it wasn't towny? I actually thought dropping those posts and peacing it out might trend towny because they feel some obligation to give a solve but not enough obligation to try and survive, which is something that a wolf might have here given that each member of the wolf team is more important to keep alive. I often wolfread Sunbae incorrectly a lot, so it gave me cold feet, especially because I think his callout on me makes sense. I don't really know what I was talking about with his Visor read, I guess I was just projecting that I wish he spoke about it more because I feel like my read there has been shut down so I inadvertently confbiased visor being in his poe but no other mentions of visor as wolfy. I don't really believe that anymore

It makes sense as a wolf behaviour because it's a textbook wolf behaviour. Does it possibly make sense as town behaviour? I can't really see it. I can see him dropping a vote without explanation, but the rest of the posts after Dya pushed back only males sense as anti-spew in my eyes.
And what is mafia if not a black and white game? At least without a third faction

[pzelda]

My thoughts on Ladd is that they either end up being an outted wolf or an obvious villager D2 or D3. My 2 cents.

[Arctic]

Anyway... I don't know what I should be doing here because I don't really want to harp on about how I don't like the state of the game even though that's how I feel. You guys know each other better than I do and you are better players than me so I should just accept that a world where all of you guys are incorrectly pushing each other isn't that likely. But it's still just nagging at me, because if all my individual reads on the consensus POE players are correct, then I think that is the world we are living in. And I feel kind of powerless to prove it right now because people don't find my arguments convincing. I can't even blame you because hell, I don't really find them convincing either, I feel like a lot of it is intuition. And I don't think I went a very good way about expressing my suspicion on Visor. But that doesn't make him town, nor does it make my other reads wrong. The other reason I feel powerless to do much is because of the interpersonal dynamics here people are unwilling to vote out certain people on Day 1 (i.e. "give them a day"). But in truth, I'd happily vote out ladd today over anyone in the consensus PoE. I think his only saving grace is if Taffy is a wolf, but I don't really see it. That said, I might vote her anyway if nobody wants anything else - just for this reason. This will almost surely get me wolfread tomorrow, but I don't really know what choice I have if I'm just voting amongst people I think are town except to vote the one who I townread less than the others