Gemma's Favorite Music Mafia

[ladd]

Benneh isnt a wolf

Enders post wrt arctic i didnt like, seems like he started from the conclusion (which i guess is somewhat true lol) and then is trying to justify it vs giving arctic a genujne read. I am not good at reading ender tho

[Visor]

if that's your poe why would you ever think i'm the correct first vote here lol

Because it gets the people going

[waza]

Lol don’t ignite Arctic

[waza]

Vote:lissa

[Visor]

Vote:lissa

Why lissa

[Gemma]

Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0
Day 2 - Votes from post 673 through 815

Votes	Target	Voters (Posts in Phase)
1	Lissa	waza (17)
1	Maple	didistetter (21)
1	Arctic	nebjiamn (22)
1	nebjiamn	Visor (9)
9	Not Voting	Arctic (15), EnderWiggin (7), Lissa (5), Maple (7), Totally not Taffy (4), annika (6), dyachei (2), ladd (15), pzelda (10)

[waza]

Why lissa

idk lol

u/ladd were my designated tinfoils if taffy seemed town

u seemed towny enough last couple of pages and errrr im not worried about ladd cos i know people are just gonna hound his ass all game regardless of alignment

maple seems fine enough ig

ender is townreading me all game and i like it, doesnt neccessarily make him town though

so it really just boils down to if i think theres 2 wolves in that pool......and im like errrr maybe? but im not really convinced it has to be the case either, and plus i think most of those names should get got before me lmao, unless someone gets hell tunneled but thats on them not me if that happens

so yaaa this is a big lead up to a very disappointing finish where i just say im shrugging and trying to aim for the wolf i lose to now rather than later before its too late, not convinced it has to be lissa but im just testing the waters. mostly just boiled down to me looking back at eod votes, trying to think what wolves would be doing and what their wincons would be. lissas vote on rask seemed pretty random so yah i voted there and will see what happens or how i feel in the morning or after ive read the game some more

[Maple]

:wowee:

why?

and maple did not defend you. Please read back eod. Maple's focus was entirely OMGUSing annika and shading arctic.

---

visor be so fr what

why is ben wolf if your other reads are "thread thinks lissa and pzelda are clear" "yall think stett is clear" "waza is forgettable" "maple and ender are playing low ev"

what do YOU think

how does ben's play fit wolf agenda?

When did I shade arctic hello?

[Maple]

does...

does maple

claiming bomb inventor d1

when we have a flipped wolf bomb diffuser
and taffy claiming bomb arso

not seem sus to you at all???????

So you're legitimately missing the part

Where waza is there

Whom I role swapped bomb inventor with last game?

[Maple]

i didn't spend much time alive in pokemash lol i don't really remember a whole lot of the lategame events

just peeked a deep wolf and died ez

hey we were both villas in hsr right before that too that's not tooooo long

good point new plan

hardclaim bomb inventor

You can't be fr rn lol

[waza]

idk lol

u/ladd were my designated tinfoils if taffy seemed town

u seemed towny enough last couple of pages and errrr im not worried about ladd cos i know people are just gonna hound his ass all game regardless of alignment

maple seems fine enough ig

ender is townreading me all game and i like it, doesnt neccessarily make him town though

so it really just boils down to if i think theres 2 wolves in that pool......and im like errrr maybe? but im not really convinced it has to be the case either, and plus i think most of those names should get got before me lmao, unless someone gets hell tunneled but thats on them not me if that happens

so yaaa this is a big lead up to a very disappointing finish where i just say im shrugging and trying to aim for the wolf i lose to now rather than later before its too late, not convinced it has to be lissa but im just testing the waters. mostly just boiled down to me looking back at eod votes, trying to think what wolves would be doing and what their wincons would be. lissas vote on rask seemed pretty random so yah i voted there and will see what happens or how i feel in the morning or after ive read the game some more

ig one of the things with ladd is that for me to believe hes a wolf i have to accept thats hes played against his own wincon during this game lmao

hes a smart gui, probs one of the smartest i met on fm so i somewhat expect him to be aware of how certain things would play out if hes a wolf

and if hes a wolf that means hes townsided unnecessarily to his own detriment at times (im going off vague memory so ill need to fact check)

like if ben is town which i think he is, then lads shielded me ben sunbae from getting heat when we were vulnerable. ok sure i somewhat forced him into townreading me so that doesnt count as much, and if ben is town hes the type of town that i imagine anyone with tmi would have a really hard time trying to justify a sr on

but with sunbae, there was a moment where sunbae was getting alota heat, and ladd spoke out against it and has been vocal against pushing the taffy wagon. the thing is though, if ladds a wolf hes well aware that hes on a timer, and that people have vocally expressed if taffy is town they'll push him. so its in ladds benefit to delay the taffy flip as long as he can,rrather then reinforce it. so for example when haru gets pushed, ladd is much better off just doing literally anything other than what he did lmao.

tbf one of the last times i tried to apply a wolf strategy read on someone it failed (twice) but i dont remember many other times its backfired. im not outright clearing ladd and will obv keep an open eye, its just i cant really figure out what his game plan would be as wolf, i can make a similar case for maple albeit i find it less convincing so i probs wont unless i feel stronger about it

[waza]

btw i mean the player twice shrunk when i said (twice)

[Maple]

[/B]
everyone should comment on this, not just taffy

Bg is dead so it's likely use it or lose it

However 1x kp puts us on Evens, effectively turning a vote into a sleep and a dead arctic

From taffy pov igniting is optimal tonight, most lokely

[annika]

@Totally not Taffy arctic already claimed NOT a PR so I think there may be some value to just igniting even if i think arctic is town, kinda in the same way you wouldn't heal a villager's poison. imo we should talk about a bit more since you are unlikely to survive past today given you are KP (unlss wolves have an RB)

everyone should comment on this, not just taffy

hmm
my thoughts on this: I think Arctic is very likely town personally. and igniting doesn't really save us a kill, unless wolves have KP/town has more KP, because it goes to even numbers and we'd need to vote Sleep like Maple said

however, I do understand that Arctic might be voted later. so I propose treating it like another elimination; if people want Arctic to get ignited because they think he's mafia, not because it's optimal, then they should say that

cus again, idt it's optimal if it goes to even numbers. it doesn't give or lose an elimination unless there's more PR stuff to worry about
@Maple how is it optimal from Taffy's PoV?

[waza]

@ladd what do you make of the way lissa has posted wrt your slot, and her amenability to me suggesting a eod flashwagon on afk ladd for no reason other than someone claiming pr and dipping?

im kinda struggling with that dynamic, especially considering she +1d me telling arctic to not lim taffy, but seemed willing to flash an afk who frankly had no business being a d1 wagon

@didistetter can u link me this pls n ty

[waza]

vote:visor

[Maple]

hmm
my thoughts on this: I think Arctic is very likely town personally. and igniting doesn't really save us a kill, unless wolves have KP/town has more KP, because it goes to even numbers and we'd need to vote Sleep like Maple said

however, I do understand that Arctic might be voted later. so I propose treating it like another elimination; if people want Arctic to get ignited because they think he's mafia, not because it's optimal, then they should say that

cus again, idt it's optimal if it goes to even numbers. it doesn't give or lose an elimination unless there's more PR stuff to worry about
@Maple how is it optimal from Taffy's PoV?

Taffy is town kp role. She wolf reads arctic and believes it'll plausibly flip wolf. From that PoV it is better to more efficiently use the ignite because the role will not get further value.

It's effectively a situation of "taffy poisoned artic last night, but also holds a heal"

And you generally just let poisons kill when made by q villager, specifically due to kill effeciency reasons.

All that said, it really is something you can go either way on.

[annika]

that might actually not matter if Taffy's bombs going off is mandatory though (this kinda feels like it might be the case based on how it's a bomber rather than an arso)

in which case rip Arcy

if that's how it works @Totally not Taffy I'd bomb Maple :3
if you don't wanna since you still TR her, hmm. it might be worth just killing the counterwagon?

that kinda sucks though lol because I do think all the people that will be counterwagons today like Ladd/waza are v. I mean personally I pref Maple so that's my vote, if youre taking votes (I might change my mind today in which case I'll ping you w/ it, but this is just what I'm thinking atm)

[Maple]

WOW she hates me sob

[ladd]

Completely random thought - ender sounds like someone id enjoy drinking beer(s) with



I wouldnt kill arctic

I am still confused by some taffy stuff (why soft pr in your first post if u think/know there is anticlaim, why even soft pr as a pr) but their claim should just be clearing/self resolving i think


Visor/lissa is a fun team thats prolly not real...but would be fun

[nebjiamn]

ig one of the things with ladd is that for me to believe hes a wolf i have to accept thats hes played against his own wincon during this game lmao

hes a smart gui, probs one of the smartest i met on fm so i somewhat expect him to be aware of how certain things would play out if hes a wolf

and if hes a wolf that means hes townsided unnecessarily to his own detriment at times (im going off vague memory so ill need to fact check)

like if ben is town which i think he is, then lads shielded me ben sunbae from getting heat when we were vulnerable. ok sure i somewhat forced him into townreading me so that doesnt count as much, and if ben is town hes the type of town that i imagine anyone with tmi would have a really hard time trying to justify a sr on

but with sunbae, there was a moment where sunbae was getting alota heat, and ladd spoke out against it and has been vocal against pushing the taffy wagon. the thing is though, if ladds a wolf hes well aware that hes on a timer, and that people have vocally expressed if taffy is town they'll push him. so its in ladds benefit to delay the taffy flip as long as he can,rrather then reinforce it. so for example when haru gets pushed, ladd is much better off just doing literally anything other than what he did lmao.

tbf one of the last times i tried to apply a wolf strategy read on someone it failed (twice) but i dont remember many other times its backfired. im not outright clearing ladd and will obv keep an open eye, its just i cant really figure out what his game plan would be as wolf, i can make a similar case for maple albeit i find it less convincing so i probs wont unless i feel stronger about it

waza, i thikn i'm starting to see a pattern with you and I think you value people calling townreads a way of townsiding. i won't say you value it too highly, its more just me realizing what you value

but IMHO, those kinds of takes are silly for a wolf because ladd has to have townreads on people?

lets go through who you mentioned:

1) he townread me. he gets 0 credit for this, he would even tell you, he has never pushed me incorrectly or failed to clear me correctly. i have fooled him a few times, but the only times he's ever really been sus of me were when I was wolfing. i legitimately entered this game knowing near 100% certainty ladd would townread me regardless of his own alignment. in fact, i know he knows this meta so well, I was actually pre-emptively wondering if this would be the game he cashes in on the meta to try to sus me a bit (if he's wolf) and that's the only reason i wouldnt say is was absolutely 100% certain instead of near 100%

also i was never vulnerable day 1 lol.

tl;dr ladd sorta has to TR me until the one day he cashes in on the meta and we'll have to see if i'm keen on that or not, i was never in danger, he shouldn't really get towncred for 'townsiding' by tring me

re: sunbae -- i think you have a valid point, sunbae def was vulnerable

re: you (waza) -- i don't really know how vulnerable you were? you had lots of defenders besides ladd, similar to the way i did. neither you or i was ever a serious wagon during the day.

if i add these 3 reads up i don't think he was 'townsiding to his own detriment' in the worlds he is a wolf? he was pushing taffy all game while this happened?

i just sorta disagree with your assessment that because ladd is on a 'timer' that he wouldn't then push for taffy to die because then it puts the spotlight on him. that is literally his MO quite often BECAUSE he's on a timer.

i don't really think you can say he's played against his wincon if he's wolf. i think killing taffy d1 and getting 2 PR claims out of day 1 would have been excellent for w!ladd but we got lucky a wolf died d1 instead.

i still feel like a lot of his reads were non-collaborative in ways that feel mor elike his wolf self than not. i'm not deadset on him being wolf--i do think if he's town he's played a pretty good game for identifying lots of towns correctly, but i don't think its absurd to have him in the middle of the POE given the current game state and where his wolf reads landed

[nebjiamn]

Completely random thought - ender sounds like someone id enjoy drinking beer(s) with



I wouldnt kill arctic

I am still confused by some taffy stuff (why soft pr in your first post if u think/know there is anticlaim, why even soft pr as a pr) but their claim should just be clearing/self resolving i think


Visor/lissa is a fun team thats prolly not real...but would be fun

yea its odd. also calling it a flavor claim specifically? i agree it should be self resolving--but back to my point a few posts ago, is there a chance gemma runs the rask role with a wolf arsonist/bombplanter?

honestly I think that's something I might do in a game and gemma's roles are pretty non-standard + theres precedent of the inclusion of misleading roles/counter-roles

[nebjiamn]

i wont lie i'm inclined to sheep my early inclination on maple + annika, especially as annika digs in deeper in the tunnel

"isn't playing +EV" isn't an inspiring towncase for someone who just came off 2(?) exhausting wolf rands and isn't being townie anyway

vote: maple

im curious to see how reads on ender/visor/ladd develop tho

[Visor]

Annika where you at

[nebjiamn]

visor what are your thoughts on lissa's eod?

stett called out her vote on ladd as somewhat suspicious, what is your take on that?

and just any general thoughts on lissa beyond that, i kind of expect you to have the most apt take (besides dya and myself probly) on her and you kind of just shrug cleared her in your larger post

[Visor]

visor what are your thoughts on lissa's eod?

stett called out her vote on ladd as somewhat suspicious, what is your take on that?

and just any general thoughts on lissa beyond that, i kind of expect you to have the most apt take (besides dya and myself probly) on her and you kind of just shrug cleared her in your larger post

I got some thoughts but probably won't be able to share to a level I am comfortable with until tomorrow

On a general sense there are two worlds of thought regarding the rask vote

Lissa is more than capable of bussing a dead wolf, and it's impossible to defend rask, so I don't see it as super clearing especially because she literally just did a similar move

But it should also be relatively simple to just not say anything re rask and it's not like others were talking about him

It's something I need to ruminate on a bit, I tended to agree with sunbaes read there and probably still do, but want to dot some is and cross some ts first

[annika]

Annika where you at

wrt to Maple: I've read over both your and Lissa's reasons for doubting she's a wolf here, and I get it, but it's not quite convincing to me. possibly because it's a meta thing and I'm not too familiar with Maple

from my PoV she did kinda push wolf agenda though, because I was a viable wagon that Lissa was voting on (at least) and Ben projected a strong-ish wolfread on me for a while before postcapping; she could reasonably think that push could go through at EoD

the main thing in her favour is that she didn't vote Arctic, but... FMPOV it's like townreading her for townsiding *at all*. she didn't do anything to defend his wagon at the very least. she also didn't do much to defend Taffy besides say "how are we going Taf here" after she claimed PR lol

I think giving her cred for not voting Taffy is like insane imo she was LITERALLY a PR claim asdgfkldashgkj and Maple PoE'd her before the claim

there's not much else you can do to wolfside at EoD besides push on Taffy (a claimed PR), so it's really just that she didn't vote Arctic. and that would've been at odds with her read list in 476 anyway ^^;

imo she just exhausted her options when both of the people at the bottom of her list claimed PR, she was stuck voting the third. maybe you can argue "why didn't she bus?" but meh that's WIFOM

(ftr this is just me explaining why the reasons to TR her aren't convincing to me, not that anything I'm mentioning here is explicitly wolfie—it goes either way, I just have other reasons to SR her)

---

in terms of my other reads... I still think Ben's v, and I've kinda been feeling better about Ender recently based on his wolfread of Arctic. Stett's/Waza's/Taffy's posting has kinda just reaffirmed my previous reads on them, so not much has rly changed for me besides Ender xD

[Visor]

Who do you want to kill besides maple

[EnderWiggin]

@EnderWiggin you cut off the eighth post

he's saying "it's not just that I disagree with your reads, [it's that you haven't even looked in the direction of my reads]" basically; he's using it as emphasis

For him to reduce it to just disagree with reads when asked about it then just feels reductive.

Otherwise the original post wasn't actually something he cared about from Ladd and he just threw it out there.

[EnderWiggin]

Benneh isnt a wolf

Enders post wrt arctic i didnt like, seems like he started from the conclusion (which i guess is somewhat true lol) and then is trying to justify it vs giving arctic a genujne read. I am not good at reading ender tho

First three points were things I noted prior to having any real read.

I will full acknowledge I was primed towards wolfreading him by the end of that list of posts.

I do notice you have given 0 thought on my initial point at any point I've brought it up.